View Full Version : Alturion GPS 6: This Way to Spoorwegstraat
Pat Logsdon
11-12-2004, 05:30 PM
<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.alturion.com/news/details.php?id=71' target='_blank'>http://www.alturion.com/news/details.php?id=71</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Alturion™ GPS 6.0 is the most advanced mobile GPS navigation system. You can use Alturion™ GPS 6 as a mobile navigation solution but it is more than navigation! You can track vehicles or persons, download weather information and add/edit roadbloacks and POIs! Planning a trip but unsure about the weather conditions? Alturion™ GPS visualizes the weather conditions throughout Europe on your screen and even offers you a day-by-day forecast. If you use a mobile internet connection (GSM/GPRS) on your PDA, you can even get updated information on line while driving."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/logsdon_20041111_alturion.jpg" /><br /><br />For some reason, I'm slightly offended that a) I've never heard of this, and b) it's not available for North America. Yeah, I'm a bit impressed. Nice UI? Check. Weather? Check. Customizable POIs? Check. Live traffic info? Check. Skinability? El Check-o. Ability to take you to Spoorwegstraat whenever you want: check-a-mundo. European customers can purchase the standard software only for 129 €, software + serial GPS for 219 €, and the software and a BT GPS for 299 €. Existing users can upgrade for 99 €. If you've used this, pipe up! Does this look like a worthy upgrade from version 5?
More skins for this great GPS software are available for free at http://www.superwasp.net/skins/
And yes, it's as great as it looks ;-)
Ah, if only it worked for the USA I'd be buying now :cry:
Ah, if only it worked for the USA I'd be buying now :cry:
You can always ask at
[email protected], no idea if they ship to usa but it's worth asking?
oVan
gpspassion
11-13-2004, 02:11 AM
Well according to the Google article I'd found to break the news of v6 http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/comments.asp?id=463 ;-) they do have USA maps now.
The biggest problem with Alturion is that it is very very lacking when it comes to usability and it keeps amazing me that they insist on having a PocketPC run an app that a laptop can barely power! Each time a new version comes out, I try it in earnest (3, 4, 5, 5.3, etc...), but sadly the total absence of mobile optimization remains.
So, what kind of problems does this software have? My Mapopolis yearly subscription runs out next month. :(
disconnected
11-13-2004, 07:07 AM
doc, you can still use mapopolis after your subscription runs out. You just can't download more maps or any newer maps. Before my subscription ran out, I downloaded every state in the country.
gpspassion
11-13-2004, 10:33 AM
So, what kind of problems does this software have? My Mapopolis yearly subscription runs out next month. :(
Well it's a bit difficult to know where to start, it's a bit like with Teletype, it's biggest problem is that it's just not "usable", menus are confusing, maps don't scroll properly, zoom boxes don't zoom what you've selected, it crashes, position on screen is 2/3 seconds late, route recalculation can take forever, etc...That's v5.3 not v6 but having been shown v6 in Paris on Wednesday, I didn't see much change, just a few features tacked on to already bloated software. They need to redo this from scratch, really!
Almost all of those problems you mention are from older versions (5.2), 5.3 did fix a lot of them, but v6 is really fast and stable.
Much depends also on the pocketpc you use of course...
Furthermore, it is optimized for ppc, it even includes different executables for ppc2002, ppc2002 with xscale, wm2003 and wm2003 with xscale. And personally I find it a feast to know that both desktop app and ppc app run the same algorithms...a lot of ppcs are running 400mzh+ so it is time to use the power of it.
Just my .02 €
gpspassion
11-13-2004, 11:35 AM
Like I said, I try each version in earnest and I've used everything out there for the past two years, pretty much round the clock I might add so I've got a lot to compare Alturion to ;-) I'm looking forward to using v6, but the fact that you say that "most" of the problems I mention where fixed with v5.3 is not very encouraging as they weren't in my experience. Maybe the v6 I was shown by Mio on Wednesday was a beta but I didn't see much change apart from the 3/4 addition menus (weather, traffic, etc..), that zoom box stil doesn't zoom what you select!
What I mean by "not optimized" is that there's been no visible effort to optimzi the GUI for mobile use to make for easy operation while on the road for instance. Intellinav (iGuidance, Prymenav, Dell, HP, etc...) benefits from a natural flow that maked for one tap operation and so does TomTom, even Navigon. Honestly, if you can, try any of the above and you'll see where Alturion is "missing the boat" and not giving their users the "GPS pleasure" they deserve.
Like I said, I try each version in earnest and I've used everything out there for the past two years, pretty much round the clock I might add so I've got a lot to compare Alturion to ;-) I'm looking forward to using v6, but the fact that you say that "most" of the problems I mention where fixed with v5.3 is not very encouraging as they weren't in my experience. Maybe the v6 I was shown by Mio on Wednesday was a beta but I didn't see much change apart from the 3/4 addition menus (weather, traffic, etc..), that zoom box stil doesn't zoom what you select!
What I mean by "not optimized" is that there's been no visible effort to optimzi the GUI for mobile use to make for easy operation while on the road for instance. Intellinav (iGuidance, Prymenav, Dell, HP, etc...) benefits from a natural flow that maked for one tap operation and so does TomTom, even Navigon. Honestly, if you can, try any of the above and you'll see where Alturion is "missing the boat" and not giving their users the "GPS pleasure" they deserve.
With "most" I mean that I did not check every item on your gripe-list. But as a regular user I can honestly say that it really has improved a lot.
I know what you mean with your definition of optimized, and you are correct that some other gps applications are more user friendly. But then they lack in other areas.
Have you ever tried driving from Holland to France with TT? At every border you needed to switch maps and load different routes. Now TT's ui might be better, but it is not user friendly to make different routes to the border.
Alturion gps is a fully loaded gps application targeted mainly at the mobile professional, imho.
A lot of usability "problems" that some users experience also come of the fact that they hardly know the application. The professional version of agps has user-definable hardware buttons, and user-definable quickpick-screen with big buttons. They have keyboard with bigger buttons that automatically filters streets and cities with what you've typed.
I can operate the whole application while driving, because I enter my destination before I drive off (as everyone should do) and all major functions are operatable with your finger.
The version you saw is definitely not the most recent, as in the last couple of days there have been at least 2 releases to fix some small issues. Current version is 6.0.0.2.
I hope you enjoy your testdrive :-)
gpspassion
11-13-2004, 02:05 PM
Well time will tell, again I've been using this stuff pretty much around the clock for the past two years both in the US and in Europe so I definitely know my way around and regardless of your level of experience a "mobile" app should work for you, beginner or expert and the fact that as an expert I find Alturion terribly confusing and "messy" at the UI level is certainly not a good sign and I can't imagine how a beginner must feel, probaby just think that "GPS on PDAs just isn't there".
I'm aware of the TomTom "region" limitation, and clearly all the apps have pros and cons ENGLISH (http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/NavOverview.htm) - FRENCH (http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=57) but that's a limitation (you've got MRE or MRUSA as you know) I can live with because I still feel the program is usable. The problem with Alturion is that they're throwing in tons of features (traffic, weather, traffic history, POI rating, etc..) with seemingly no concern for overall usability without realizing that this is a prerequisite withouth which the rest is only good on paper...and with the large companies that buy stuff based on specs most of the time...I can't see this lasting too much longer though.
Again I'll be the first one to say that v6 meets this prerequisite, but I'm not holding my breath.
JvanEkris
11-14-2004, 12:50 AM
I also discussed the usability issue with the owner of alturion two weeks ago. They did hear about this complaint about the 5.x versiosn a lot, and they did make a lot of improvements. I've played with a beta-version of it two weeks ago and i must say it has improved a lot.
Great thing i like about Alturion is that you can select your region you want to use. It is a lot more flexible than TomTom is.......
Jaap
gpspassion
11-14-2004, 01:01 AM
Ok, I think we should stop coming back to this TomTom region limitation all the time ! It's a known and well identified problem and only exists because it's an otherwise very usable program ;-)
On v6 did you get to drive around with it? From what I saw without driving, the UI appears to be exactly the same, so I'm not sure how it could have improved a lot and that zoom box still doesn't zoom the area you select :-( What did you see as being improved?
I'm glad that the Alturion guys are finally listening to the usability issues as they've just brushed them aside until now from what I can tell. Was that Eric? We exchnaged emails a few times in the past.
JvanEkris
11-14-2004, 04:01 PM
Well,
Since Peter does not trust me with his car (perhaps he has seen my driving style), i could not testdrive it. I must admit, it is no super-fluid TomTom with a perfect GUI. The zoom-function you mentioned worked fine when i tried it. The buttons have become better and i undertood them better than version 5. I'm a TomTom user myself, so i'm brainwashed to their GUI, but had the feeling it was less complex than it's previous GUI, which was my primary concern with 5.0
Jaap
I've driven a lot around with v6 (both beta and final).
The UI for route planning is totally changed, and is very user friendly now.
I don't know what you mean by zoom area, but if I drag a zoom rectangle on the map with my finger, the map zooms in to that region. I have mapped ZoomIn and ZoomOut functions to the Up/Down buttons of the D-pad and can then easily zoom in/out. What more do you expect from zooming? Maybe you should explain what you were trying to do.
It has autozoom on speed, autovolume on speed, auto night map, features TT does not have (you need a 3rd party plugin costing 18 € or something). Also, I don't see why we shouldn't mention the region problem with TT anymore, you keep on repeating UI problems with Alturion :roll:
Is there an evaluation version that works with US maps?
gpspassion
11-14-2004, 05:32 PM
No evaluation version that I know of no. Other than Mapopolis and their downloadable maps model no one offers that.
I don't know what you mean by zoom area, but if I drag a zoom rectangle on the map with my finger, the map zooms in to that region.
Well that's never worked for me up to now whether on a PocketPC or a PC. Seems like they've fixed it with v6, then.
Also, I don't see why we shouldn't mention the region problem with TT anymore, you keep on repeating UI problems with Alturion :roll:
As I've explained previously, this is only a problem (and for people living on a border mostly) with TomTom because it's an otherwise very usable navigation solution, which cannot be said about Alturion up to now, i.e it's a flawed logic IMHO to say, xyz does this better thans abc, when xyz is not "usable" in the first place. If I need cross-border driving, I'll use Navigon (or Engin in Benelux).
I guess we're not looking at this from the same angle, since you're a beta tester and clearly very close to the team at Alturion, not that there's anything wrong with that mind you. I'm just an experienced observer testing all the solutions out there and looking at the pros and cons so that my readers can get they info they need to choose to solution that will fit their needs.
I can agree with what gpspassion is saying. Last year before I bought a gps unit and software, Socket BT OEM and Mapopolis, I relied on the gpspassion forums pretty extensively. Especially when trying to decide between Mapopolis and CoPilot for software.
With the exception of not having large buttons on the GUI I've been very happy with Mapopolis.
You can choose if you want to drag the map or zoom the map via a button in the toolbar. If it is on zoom draw a rect on the screen. That has always worked for me...even in v5.2 and v5.3.
I fully agree though that this is not perfect software, but reading the various other forums on gps (pocketpc-club.nl has a good load of them), all gps software on ppc have some problems... finding the right balance between usability, stability, functionality and performance is a difficult exercise that not one software package has yet solved completely.
I do not agree with your finding that border-routing is only for people living near the border. Belgium is a mere 150km width I believe, so nearly every Belgian inhabitant has driven either towards France or towards Holland & Germany.
I fully appreciate your look from various angles, but believe me they are not different than my angles on it. I agree with your observations about usability, but I truly believe you did not have the best experience with the software as it might have been. If I'm biased because I'm a beta tester than it is really only marginally. I'm a realist and have a very good understanding of the limitations of this and other software. In fact, for some target audience (the dummies) I would recommend a different package, but for the experienced mobile professional I can recommend it with my eyes closed. Does it have problems? Sure it does, like any other program. But is it as bad as you depict, or are the others way better? Definitely not.
Try driving with TT in the centre of Antwerp, or any town center with small streets close to each other. Result: because of the snap-algorithm and less than optimal reception, your position on screen sometimes snaps on parallel roads, instead of the road you drive on.
Or try driving with any vdo/becker/panasonic/sony 1-din navigation system that has only an arrow on display...maybe less confusing for the average user, until you need to switch highways from e40 to e17 in Gent...then you'll know that it is not sufficient for good visualisation.
oVan
gpspassion
11-14-2004, 07:54 PM
Ok, well let's revisit when v6 is out, Ive just spent an hour with the Auto-Update, not sure if I now have v6? I did see some weather module coming though! I believe I've given Alturion a fair chance like all the other sofware I test and I even started Alturion forums (http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/default.asp?CAT_ID=7) on the site almost two years ago, but unfortunately they've mostly been a place for people to voice bitter complaints :-(
Just one thing though, you mention the GPS reception of TomTom, that's got nothing to do with the actual software, the GPS receiver "does all the work" and the software simply uses the data that flows out of it, so a bad GPS (there aren't many) will be as problematic for any software, TomTom, Alurion, Navigon, etc... As far as snapping goes, the only two that really have problems in this respect are Destinator and MapSonic, but the recently released v2 fixes that for the latter.
I did not mention bad gps reception for TT, I meant: whenever you have bad reception with your receiver, and you're driving in an area where a lot of roads are close to each other (=in the centre of a city), you have the chance of TT snapping to wrong roads. That's what I read in the TT forums, mentioned by a lot of TT owners.
Btw, every forum for every gps software is almost always a place to complain.
:wink:
gpspassion
11-14-2004, 09:20 PM
Ah ok, from my experience, I haven't seen this to be a problem with TomTom particularly, maybe a bit more with D3 or MSv1.3, doesn't sound like you've experienced it yourself?
On forums, yes and no, fortunately we do manage to have constructive discussions most of the time ;-)
Good news is that I'm at 50% of the 250Mb download and it is v6 coming through it seems!
Peseta
11-15-2004, 02:29 AM
Probably because it's software solely used in Europe, and this site is more oriented west of the Atlantic, the discussion seems to be limited to a few persons.
I hope Alturion maps for the USA will come available, because in my view it's a valid alternative for carnavigation .
I've used Alturion, TomTom, Mapsonic, Destinator and Navigon and actually still like Alturion best overall, even though I've stopped using it because too many support issues at the time (f.i. lack of backwards compatibility of maps).
I especially liked:
the combination of PPC and desktop software. This way you can calculate very long routes on your desktop and export the to your PPC. Try to calculate a route of more than 1000 km on your PPC (which I've done with Alturion a few times).
Total freedom with extracting parts of maps and combining them on your PPC. Otherwise a trip from The Netherlands (where I live) to the south of France would need more than 500 MB of storage for maps. Now I could do with about 130 MB with enough "map real-estate" to take alternative routes.
With this comes routing without switching maps at borders. This is in my view a major issue, because only this way you have real door to door routing through several countries (an example was a skiing holiday in the north of Italy, traveling through 5 countries).
Alturion certainly isn't perfect, however none is at this time.
For daily use I think the interface is good (since v5). Only certain settings are not always logical and hard to select when driving. However many of those advanced settings aren't available on other solutions and actually settings shouldn't be changed while driving because of safety.
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