In way over my head

[Jordan Rosenwald]

I thought this wouldn't be too difficult, but I was wrong. Any help would be appreciated.
Ok, I've got a wired Netgear router in my basement that goes into a hub and distributes through my house.
In the room that I use as the computer room, I have a Linksys switch that distributes my network connection to various devises in the room. I'd like to add wifi to my network so I can do all the normal fun stuff from my PDA.
I have an old wireless Netgear router that I was hoping there was a way to just tell the wireless router to not serve as a DHCP server and just use it as a WiFi access point. This does not seem to work, or at least I can’t seem to make it work.
Any help people can supply would be wonderful.

[OSUKid7]

So basically you want to turn the wireless router into a wireless AP - removing the routing, NAT, DHCP, etc.?

I'd also like to know that...I've had minimal experience with Netgear routers, so I don't think I will be of much help on this one, but hopefully someone else will. I have several Linksys products here, and have never seen a way to do what (I think) you're discribing. I know you can turn off DHCP, but the router still acts like a router, and doesn't give an IP from the actual DHCP router.

I researched this a little last year since wireless routers were cheaper than APs, but ended up going for an AP anyway. I found a few people asking this same type of question, but the basic answer I ran into was that it can't be done.

Hopefully I didn't look hard enough. I've got an extra wireless router that I'd like to use as an AP, so I'll be looking forward to the answer as well. :)

[Janak Parekh]

have never seen a way to do what (I think) you're discribing
Most newer routers either have the option to turn off NAT or to switch into "Access Point" mode. However, the older/cheaper ones tend not to. If the functionality is there, it shouldn't be hard to find. Otherwise:

1. Modern units with that support shouldn't cost that much;
2. You can do "double-NAT" -- i.e., make a private network within a private network. It's a rather ugly solution, but it does work if your routers support different private networks (i.e., one would be 192.168.* and the other 10.*).

--janak

[Jordan Rosenwald]

Thanks guys. Anyone else have any experience with this idea?

Oh, and Janek, you know of any routers that will have that option since, as OSUKid7 pointed out, AP's tend to be a LOT more expensive than a router.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm seeing APs for 150+!

[Sven Johannsen]

Why not just use the netgear wireless as a router. Plug the WAN port that would normally connect to the ISP into one of the switch ports. It will pick up an IP from the wired network's router. Make sure the wireless router LAN side doesn't conflict with the rest of your network. If you are using 192.168.1.x on the wired side, make the lan side of the wireless one something like 192.168.10.x. Let the wireless DHCP run.

Your wireless stuff will get forwarded be the wireless router onto the wired network. If it needs to get to the internet the wired router will forward it on.

That's kind of how my setup is anyway, but for a different reason. I have a DMZ machine between the routers to which I have all the ports forwarded, so i can do video teleconferencing, and such, without having to forward specific ports. Gives me two layers of NAT firewall as well.

Hope that makes sense.

[Janak Parekh]

Oh, and Janek, you know of any routers that will have that option since, as OSUKid7 pointed out, AP's tend to be a LOT more expensive than a router.
Not off the top of my head. The easiest thing to do is to go to a major manufacturer (e.g., Linksys), pick out the product you want (price and featurewise), and if it's not clear from the general description glance at the manual off the website to see if it supports multiple modes.

The more expensive APs are intended for corporate environments (support RADIUS/802.1x, external antennas, multiple types of 802.11, etc.) and is a reason why they are more expensive. However, there are some "consumer APs" if you look hard enough.

--janak

[OSUKid7]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm seeing APs for 150+!150+? Only commercial APs. Amazon has the Linksys WRT54G (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007KDVI/qid=1099884207/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-4766224-9279920?v=glance&s=pc&n=507846) (yes, router, I know) for $65, and the WAP54G (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007KDVJ/qid=1099884269/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-4766224-9279920?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846) (AP) for the same price. And those are both 802.11g products. Check PriceGrabber.com (http://www.pricegrabber.com/) for other products.

Why not just use the netgear wireless as a router.
I took that statement to mean something different initially. Why not just replace your current router with the NetGear Wireless Router? Then you won't even have to mess with two networks.

[gregh2000]

All right, this is what you need to do.

Router 1, wired

Set Lan ip to 192.168.1.1
subenet 255.255.255.0
let it connect to your broadband connection with its wan port
dhcp server on


Router 2, wireless

set lan ip to 192.168.1.2
subnet 255.255.255.0
gateway(if listed) 192.168.1.1
Connect it to the other router using the lan ports on both of them, a crossover cable may be necessary. If the link lights come on you are good.
dhcp server off

that should do it then you can manage the wireless router to set up encryption or whatever you want to do.

Greg

[carphead]

If the wireless router has switched ports (ie where you'd normally plug a wired pc into) take the cable from the switch and plug it into there. Ignore the WAN port. That way the router will act as a wireless repeater. If you can't disable the dhcp server on the wireless router then configure it with the same similar scope so...

Wired Router
IP Range - 192.168.1.10-50
Subnet - 255.255.255.0

Wireless
IP Range - 192.168.1.100-150
Subnet - 255.255.255.0

That way you won't get any conflicts.

[Jordan Rosenwald]

Ok, this may really be showing my ignorance, but when I want to configure the IP manually, it requires that I enter a DNS server as well. Since my wired router is pulling DNS from my ISP, I have no idea what DNS servers I can define. Not to mention, if I static define the DNS servers, if my ISP changes their IPs I'm screwed.
So manually configuring the wired router certainly makes sense (and was how I initially tried things), but I quickly hit this roadblock. Any thoughts?

Oh, and the reason why I'm not just replacing the wired router with the wireless is because I have no choice but to have a router in my basement. Putting a 802.11b router in a basement renders it pretty much useless. :)

[gregh2000]

you should be able to manually configure the LAN address without dns or anything, the LAN IP is just the IP of the router on your network, the WAN stuff, leave to dhcp or automatic

[Jordan Rosenwald]

Ah. Gotcha.
I'll try it out tonight and let you guys know how it goes. Thanks for all the help.

[Sven Johannsen]

when I want to configure the IP manually, it requires that I enter a DNS server as well. Since my wired router is pulling DNS from my ISP, I have no idea what DNS servers I can define. Not to mention, if I static define the DNS servers, if my ISP changes their IPs I'm screwed.

That's one reason I suggested cascading the devices. The wired router would get the DNS numbers from the ISP, and then hand them to the wireless one when it requests it's IP, subnet, gateway and DNS numbers.

You could fairly reliably just enter the DNS values that you are getting from your ISP statically. Use IPConfig on any PC to see what they are if you can't see them on the router. These are not going to change. These server addresses need to stay pretty consistant within the DNS network for it to work right.

[gregh2000]

however, if you cascade them you firewall yourself out of half your network. that would suck.

[Sven Johannsen]

however, if you cascade them you firewall yourself out of half your network. that would suck.

True, but it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Surfing the net, or getting e-mail from the PPC connected via WiFi as the second layer will work just fine. ActiveSyncing may be a challenge, and attaching to shares, may be more of one.

The simplest, most flexible solution would be to just get an AP, but that costs, same results but a bit more complicated is to take the router and make it act as just an AP. Using the router/ap as a second layer is likely the easiest solution, but does have some drawbacks as you point out.

[gregh2000]

In the network I had in my apartment before I recently moved, I had 5 wireless routers. Was running 2 networks. My server has 2 NICs in it and could access both parts, but comptuers could not see the other parts. I had 4 of the routers on one network, functioning as access points so that I could roam between them. So setting routers to run with each other is not hard and can be a lot cheaper.

G