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View Full Version : HELP - can anyone explain to me WM2003's file system?


ipaq_wannabe
11-02-2004, 08:25 AM
I am beginning to hate the PocketPC's file system - I just couldn't seem to get it... Whenever, say I open Pocket Word, or any other application like Repligo, ALL I get is a bunch of 1st-level directories for which you wouldn't know if the contents are either in the Flash Disk, in Main Memory, or in an external data card... Also, if I do create 2nd-level directories, the PPC apps couldnt seem to find them... *Aaaaarrrrggghhhhh*

Could anyone somehow explain to me how this file system works? And how to best setup directories in the Flash Disk, in the Main Memory (hopefully, I wouldn't want to use), and in the external data card?

I am planning to have each directory/folder "divided" into categories, ie., like "Work," "Private," "Repligo," etc.

Many thanks!!!

Sven Johannsen
11-02-2004, 04:08 PM
Sure, it's not that tough. Just has a couple of 'features'.

The programs are designed to look for files of their own kind in a My Documents directory, or 1(one) level below it. Create a My Documents directory on any storage device you have and that will help. If you have a Pictures folder in Main RAM, under My Documents, and a Pictures folder under My Documents on a Flash Card, that will be seen as one place in an open file dialog. This is not that much different than the desktop. When you open Word, and select Open, it goes to My Documents on the desktop and shows you Word files. On the PPC, if you open Pocket Word it shows you Word related documents in My Documents. Supposed to help you avoid clutter. Why would you want to see all your spreadsheet, picture, dll's and executables, if you are in Word trying to open a Word document?

You can always open file explorer, navigate to the file and click it to open it in it's native program, just as you can on the desktop.

The biggest difference is the one-folder-deep restriction. You can have My Documents\Pictures, and if you open Picture Viewer it will find them. If you have Documents\Pictures\Vacation though, Picture Viewer will not see them. That does not mean you can't get to the pictutres and open them, you just need to use File Explorer to do so.

Incidentally the file dialog that opens when you open Word or some other program does indicate if the file is in RAM or Flash. The icon has a little card icon on it if it is on a Flash Card. Does on WM2003 anyway. I think it did before too.

One thing to watch for is a hidden ignore_my_docs file on a Flash card. It instructs the OS to ignore any MyDocuments folder and has the programs show all the files on the card (consistent with the program you are in). That can be time consuming if you have a lot of programs on the Flash Card and the OS is scanning the whole thing when you open a picture program. If you have a My Documents directory on the Flash card, get rid of the ignore_my_docs.

Really, it's not much different than the desktop, except they assumed you would want to open a file, instead of create a new file when you start an app, and they limited the folder depth. That latter part may irritate organization freaks, but I think the quantity of files people keep may have ben underestimated. When this started you had 64M of RAM split between programs and data, including all the PIM info. Now that folks are slapping 4G CF, SD or microdrives on these things, maybe the file depth restriction should be revisited.

ipaq_wannabe
11-03-2004, 04:19 AM
thanks a lot for the reply... but at this i still dont get it...

here is how i setup my folders on the external card:

My Documents
Personal - SD
Repligo - SD

and here it is setup in the Flash RAM

Personal
Repligo

inside the "Repligo" and the "Repligo - SD" folder i have nothing but Repligo files...

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okay, i open up PocketWord, and navigate to the the Repligo folder, and obviously, no files show up...

when i chose to go to the "Repligo - SD" folder, i get the files that are inside the Personal folder in the Flash RAM

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in the "Personal - SD" folder, i have both PocketXL and some TXT files...

i open up PocketWord, and could not find the "Personal - SD" folder... what gives???

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however if i put "Personal - SD" in the root of the SD card, it does show up in PocketWord... unfortunately, it ALSO shows the files from the "Personal" folder in the Flash RAM...

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and that is why im so confused about ALL this - it would be great if i could see a pattern... unfortunately no matter how much time i spend renaming folders, moving them around, i cannot seem to understand it...

ipaq_wannabe
11-06-2004, 11:27 AM
i was wondering if someone can still help me in learning more about WM2003's filesystem?

thanks...

Sven Johannsen
11-06-2004, 05:23 PM
In the root of the SD card, do you have a file called ignore_my_docs? It would be a hidden file, so if you aren't seeing those tap and hold on a blanl area near the bottom of a page in file explorer and select View All Files. If you hhave a My Documents folder in the SD as you do, you need to get rid of that file.

If you use a third party file explorer like Resco, just select view all in the options.

Not sure if that file will exist, or if having it is causing some of your issues, but it shouldn't be there if you have established a My Documents folder.

ipaq_wannabe
11-07-2004, 09:44 AM
yes, i found that hidden file... and did delete it - unfortunately, it keeps on coming back... what is it that i am supposed to do?

Darius Wey
11-07-2004, 10:38 AM
yes, i found that hidden file... and did delete it - unfortunately, it keeps on coming back... what is it that i am supposed to do?

Create a folder called My Documents at the root level... :D

Sven Johannsen
11-07-2004, 06:47 PM
Looks like he did, in his second post above. The two Personal and Repligo folders need to be in it though. Don't understand why the ignore file would come back if there is a My Documents folder.

I just renamed a 'My Documents' folder on an SD card to 'My Docs' and sure enough the OS put the ignore_my_docs back in the root. I changed my Docs back to My Documents and deleted the ignore file and it doesn't come back.

Incidentally, it does screw up what I find and where I find it in the Word file dialog (page). I see the My Docs folder, but there is nothing in it. Folders that are in it (under My Docs) don't show up. Changing back to My Documents, but leaving the ignore_my_docs file causes it to act like there is no My Documents. Getting rid of the ignore file, once again lets me see the folders under My Documents in the Word file selector.

All I can offer is to recheck the spelling of the My Documents folder on the SD card. Maybe copy all the files off with a reader, create the folder structure and copy files back. Key is a My Documents folder, and all your files in it, and get rid of the ignore file. You can go one more folder deep for most things, like My Documents\Personal and My Documents\Repligo but not My Documents\Personal\Family if you want Word to see it directly.

ipaq_wannabe
11-07-2004, 09:48 PM
okay... okay...

this filesystem is really driving me crazy... so what i did was backup everything, then did a hard reset... and tried things once more... as for the "ignore_my_docs" file, HOORAY - that THING is solved...

however as for programs showing "all folders" whenever i go to a specific folder [in the SD card], i really dont get...

to illustrate...

here is the folder layout for my SD card (note: i also have a flash disk in my handheld, but of course in a different layout):

http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~alfred/images/Screen001.jpg

note: the folder below "Repligo SD" is "Personal"

okay... then, i open up Repligo, and see this in the opening screen:

http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~alfred/images/Screen002.jpg

as it would be seen in this (above) image, "Repligo" and "Repligo SD" are both seen... "Repligo" would be in the Flash disk, while "Repligo SD" is under the "My Documents" folder in the SD card

i then choose the "Repligo" folder, and obviously it shows me ONLY the files under that folder:

http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~alfred/images/Screen003.jpg

now whenever i go back to the second image [posted above], and choose the "Repligo SD" folder, what i get is "ALL Folders," ie., files both in the "Repligo" and the "Repligo SD" folder are shown:

http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~alfred/images/Screen004.jpg

i just dont get it why it doesnt stick to "Repligo SD"...

and this is the same also whenever i create my directory structure for both PW and PE...

is it because it is in the SD card? i mean, this problem does not appear when i tried to repeat it just using the flash card...

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i am really sorry about asking all these stupid questions... :cry:
i could really be so [subconsciously] dense that i wouldnt understand stuff until it is truly hammered into my head... :cry:

however thanks a lot for your replies...

Sven Johannsen
11-08-2004, 12:50 AM
Not silly questions at all. Takes a little while to really understand what is happenning to you to see what might be causing it. In fact it looks like an anamoly in how the file system, or at least the file open dialog, handles that portion of ROM available to the user.

I created three folders. Repligo under My Documents in Main Ram, Repligo bis, under a My Documents folder in the built in storage (ROM) area on my Dell. (same as File store on an iPaq), and a Repligo sd folder under My Documents on an SD card.

Same results as you it seems. Going into Repligo I get all three folders showing in the open file page. I select either the Repligo or the Repligo sd and that is what shows at the top. If I select Repligo bis, it goes to All Folders at the top. Seems to be a bug to me, not a lack of understanding of the file system on your part.

I expect there is some oddity occuring due to the underlaying code not anticipating user accessible ROM areas. This is actually a fairly recent feature in PPCs. Used to be Main Ram or SD/CF cards and that was it. May not be working right. Certainly not as expected.

I hadn't noticed the issue probably because I don't use my built-in-storage (ROM) for any file storage. I use it to install programs to.

I get similar, but not identical results with Word, Word sd and Word bis folders and using Word to open directories, and find files. So it appears that the file open implementation in Word and Repligo aren't even the same.

I do find that if I call the word folder 'Word' in all three locations, it only shows up once on the open file dialog of Word. I can tell if the file is in Ram or ROM by the icon, though not which ROM. Same with a Repligo folder under My documents in Main Ram and an SD card. Add one to the Built-in-Storage and things get a bit weird.

As I mentioned it seems like a problem in the way the file open dialog is handling Built-In-Storage/FileStore. Do you think you might try leaving your own docs out of there and just have them in Main Ram (as that is sync'd under AS, and others on your Flash cards, and see if that starts to make sense. The FileStore area of ROM is a great place to load programs IMHO. Doesn't take any RAM space and you can take the file loaded SD card out without worrying about removing programs at the same time.

ipaq_wannabe
11-08-2004, 11:19 PM
thanks for the tests you've performed on your device...

and if, even other people, do experience the same "problem," then i guess there is no way out of it, right?

if it be a bug, then i think i can live with it... :(

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as for why i structured my filesystem like that - RAM would have all the programs, while flash, and external memory would handle the data... external memory also handles the backup...

to explain, i need a repository/storage for data that i can use anytime, and that is also persistent... i chose the built-in flash storage for that - even if the ppc hard resets on itself suddenly (bad experience from previous versions of the OS), then all my data is safe. i wouldnt have chosen storing it in the SD cards (CF cards) as such because there are times that i need to remove cards, do some switches (say, with a digital camera), and i need to have my important data with me...

Sven Johannsen
11-09-2004, 01:40 AM
It was an interesting investigation. I plan to do some more of that and likely submit it to MS for evaluation. I think what is happenning is wrong, but I need to verify it with a relatively stock PPC.

I understand your reasoning for wanting to set things up the way you did. I would suggest reconsidering having all the programs in RAM though. The more RAM you can leave free the better your performance. Puting them on a Flash Card or flash ROM doesn't actually save you from hard reset issues, as the registry entries that tell the OS the program exist are lost. It is a bit surprising how many such programs can be launched from flash by just running the executable after a crash though.

Removing a flash card to put in a camera, may limit your access to files for a short time, but having a lot of programs loaded in RAM limits the storage space to which you can save snaps, too. There are tradeoffs no matter which way you go. Hopefully you find a method that works and makes sense for you. In any case it does appear that the OS is not doing what it should reference accessing the folders on the user accesible ROM. It's not your lack off understanding.

ipaq_wannabe
11-09-2004, 04:08 AM
thanks a lot... i really appreciate it all...

cheers!!!