XViD, DiVX, MP3, all over 802.11b with a new Dell Axim X50?

[implexant]

Ok, I'm going to start out by making my situation clear:

I'm thinking of getting one of them shiny new Dell Axim X50s, the one with the integrated 802.11b, BT, but the non-VGA screen. I have NOT yet purchased it, but I'm thinking about. If you folks are so kind as to answer some of my questions, I can figure out if this Axim will do what I want it to.

So, I want to accomplish several things (in order of priority):

1) Be able to connect to shares on other computers in my network via a UNC (ex: \\computer\share) (using 802.11b)
2) Be able to listen to music (MP3s) that I have in a network share without actually putting music on the pocket pc.
3) Be able to watch XViD and DiVX movies on my pocket pc over the network (again, using the UNC share) without actually reencoding them.

Ok, I'm positive I can do #s 1-2. But my questions are on #3. Most of the movies I've encoded into DiVX from DVDs are around 800-900kbps. Can my pocket pc, using BetaPlayer (http://betaplayer.corecodec.org/), play a 900kbps DiVX movie over a 802.11b network connection that is stored on a UNC available share?

Mainly, without "studdering" or dropped frames, and other video/sound delays. Also, could the video be shown in a landscape view (horizontal)?

I appreciate any help ya'll can provide!

TIA.

-Chris

[Darius Wey]

Okay, (1) and (2) can definitely be done with no problems. Of course, the faster your network, the better playback you would get. With (3) however, BetaPlayer as yet does not support streaming over a network. I do believe that Picard is working toward getting this ready for a future release so I wouldn't let this be a total turn-down from getting a Pocket PC. Playing a 900kbps movie should be no problem on the powerful beast that is the X50. However, since I don't have one, I can't comment on much at the moment. If you want to check out this benchmark page, (http://shintak.japan.webmatrixhosting.net/blogs/articles/667.aspx) you may find some interesting information. FPS shouldn't be too much of a worry in my opinion. What resolution is the DivX file? Oh...and landscape view is not a problem at all. ;)

[Pat Logsdon]

In short, yes, you can stream video over WiFi without re-encoding it. You'll need Windows Media Encoder 9 (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/encoder/default.aspx) to do it (it's a free download). Just set up a custom stream and play your video in Windows Media Player. Then you can open the URL in WMP on your PPC (or any other player capable of opening a URL).

[Darius Wey]

With (3) however, BetaPlayer as yet does not support streaming over a network. I do believe that Picard is working toward getting this ready for a future release so I wouldn't let this be a total turn-down from getting a Pocket PC. Playing a 900kbps movie should be no problem on the powerful beast that is the X50. However, since I don't have one, I can't comment on much at the moment. If you want to check out this benchmark page, (http://shintak.japan.webmatrixhosting.net/blogs/articles/667.aspx) you may find some interesting information. FPS shouldn't be too much of a worry in my opinion. What resolution is the DivX file? Oh...and landscape view is not a problem at all. ;)

Actually, but if you open up File Explorer and navigate to the video file on your networked HDD, if you tap on the file you want to play, it should be able to be launched in BetaPlayer. My earlier reference of BetaPlayer not supporting it is in reference to the fact that there is no real "Open URL..." button yet. Hope that helps. ;)

[implexant]

Awesome! This is just great.

The WMP9 (or 10, if the encoder is available for it) stream would be fine as well. I'd only be doing this stuff in the limitations of my home until I could get a 4GB MicroDrive or something with a little more storage for when I'm away from home.

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's advice. Great site ya'll got here, I'll be sure to come back once I get my PPC :) I'll add it to my Christmas list, so I should have it the end of December :D

-Chris

[picard]

In short, yes, you can stream video over WiFi without re-encoding it. You'll need Windows Media Encoder 9 (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/9series/encoder/default.aspx) to do it (it's a free download).
you mean realtime re-encoding? you will probably need a very powerfull PC to do realtime high-quality wmv encoding (vga resolution and high bitrate), although you can choose low resolution with lower quality...
update: sorry, my bad. i didn't read carefully the original question. it's not a x50v, so the wmv should be qvga resolution and probably a PC won't have problem with that.

to answer the original question: we don't know yet. with the current software decoding you won't be able to playback xvid/divx files with thoose bitrates via wifi (there will be stops for buffering because the video decoding cpu load will slow down wifi). but x50v has hardware video decoding capabilites and it could do the trick, but first i need to add support for that intel chip in betaplayer.
update: my answer was about a x50v too. with a x50s you won't be able to playback those high quality movies over wifi. even x30h can't do that with 624mhz. there will be bandwidth problems.

[implexant]

Pardon my seeming ignorance, but wouldn't transfering video over a network in a data type of sense simply be data, and not include encoding? A DVD is < 9MBps so I wouldn't see what a 802.11b (10MB) network wouldn't suffice.

That is, of course, if BetaPlayer can simply open a file via a UNC network share. Right?

Again, I may be wrong, but I'm really not talking about reencoding here, so I'm confused as to how that pertains. As to the processor... it's 520Mhz :mrgreen:

Anyway, whatever the case, the real test is to get one and try it. When I get ahold of mine in December, I'll be sure to postt results here, in this thread.

Thanks again, everyone!

-Chris

[Darius Wey]

I think you were talking about network streaming a pre-encoded DivX file across to the PPC, although correct me if I perceived your post incorrectly. ;)

When you mentioned "not having to re-encode the video", were you making reference to not having to re-encode a DivX file to a lower bitrate and resolution?

I don't think you were after realtime encoding, were you? :?

[picard]

sorry. it was my bad. i was thinking about the x50v. i didn't read carefully your first post. with a qvga x50s you will have to reencode for wifi playback (reencode once and playback the pocketpc optimized version with file sharing or reencode on the fly with windows media encoder or similar)

Pardon my seeming ignorance, but wouldn't transfering video over a network in a data type of sense simply be data, and not include encoding? A DVD is < 9MBps so I wouldn't see what a 802.11b (10MB) network wouldn't suffice.
your question was about xvid/divx movies (~900kbit/sec). dvd mpeg2 is a different matter. 10mbit with 802.11b is not the actuall data transfer rate. pocketpc's are even slower (example compared to notebooks) and when the pocket's cpu is busy with video decoding the bandwidth even drops more. so raw dvd playback won't be possible for sure (btw betaplayer doesn't support mpeg2, especially not crypted one)

That is, of course, if BetaPlayer can simply open a file via a UNC network share. Right?
it can of course if the file format and codecs are supported. but bandwidth can be still a problem.

[implexant]

I don't think you were after realtime encoding, were you?
Not in the slightest 8)

sorry. it was my bad. i was thinking about the x50v. i didn't read carefully your first post. with a qvga x50s you will have to reencode for wifi playback (reencode once and playback the pocketpc optimized version with file sharing or reencode on the fly with windows media encoder or similar)
So I'd have to reencode to a smaller bitrate and smaller file size to be able to playback on the PPC? Would Dr. DiVX's "Handheld DiVX Certified Video" function be sufficient? It reencodes to ~ 176x96, 48kbps sound, 200kbps video.

dvd mpeg2 is a different matter.
I was simply using a raw DVD MPEG2 MBps rate as a reference point. My point was that if a full quality DVD was less than 9MBps, certaintly a 802.11b network would be able to handle around 1MBps (rough estimate). Now your point about the PPC not being able to handle that kind of bandwidth makes sense.

Well sounds to me like I'll just plain and simple have to reencode the video files :( O well, it's not that bad.

Thanks again for the advice, esp. you picard and DJ Apod.

Have a good one,

-Chris

[picard]

Would Dr. DiVX's "Handheld DiVX Certified Video" function be sufficient? It reencodes to ~ 176x96, 48kbps sound, 200kbps video.
you can do much better than that. 320x240 512kbps full framerate video with high quality audio. but using vga sized movies would make the cpu calculate 4x many pixels and this will slow down wifi to a point where 1mbit/sec is not possible in longterm. but if you use cf/sd card you can probably play even the high quality videos (scaled down to 320x240 during playback), of course reencoding would make more sense (less storage space needed, less battery drain)

[implexant]

you can do much better than that. 320x240 512kbps full framerate video with high quality audio. but using vga sized movies would make the cpu calculate 4x many pixels and this will slow down wifi to a point where 1mbit/sec is not possible in longterm. but if you use cf/sd card you can probably play even the high quality videos (scaled down to 320x240 during playback), ofcoz reencoding makes more sense (less storage space needed, less battery drain)
Sorry, I'm not familiar with ofcoz reencoding... what's that all about?

-Chris

[picard]

i corrected that sentence :)
basically you can have better results with reencoded movies, but if you want you can play those original divx/xvid files too (but not via wifi and it will be a waste of resources)

[implexant]

I was wondering what the heck you were talking about. lol

Anyway, so lets say I reencoded to 320x240 512kbps full framerate video with high quality audio (~96kbps) would that work on a 802.11b connection with the PPC?

-Chris

[Darius Wey]

I was wondering what the heck you were talking about. lol

Anyway, so lets say I reencoded to 320x240 512kbps full framerate video with high quality audio (~96kbps) would that work on a 802.11b connection with the PPC?

-Chris

Sure can! :way to go: Especially with something like the X50.

As Picard said, using VGA-sized videos would make the PPC work a little harder, but for a 320x240 (512kbps), you shouldn't experience any major problems.

I've tried it before and it works fine. :P

[implexant]

Ok, well that's good that I know now :) I just wish I could watch them over the network without reencoding :( Of course if I get a 4GB MicroDrive, I could store 19-20 movies on it. That'd be great for trips, airplane waits, or just for on the go.

Well anyway, thanks again for all the assistance.

-Chris

[MitchellO]

You can't run files directly from your hard drive on the pocket pc. You need to use a program like NetUse, which lets you create shared folders on the Pocket PC, in a folder called Network. This way you can click files and open over the network without downloading them.

Regarding viewing videos over WiFi, the statement:

A DVD is < 9MBps so I wouldn't see what a 802.11b (10MB) network wouldn't suffice

isn't true. WiFi will pretty well NEVER get to the rated MAXIMUM. There is no chance that a 9MBit file will go over a 11MBit connection with any quality. My best over WiFi is about 500KBits. Using the above mentioned NetUse, I can select a video from my files, and it will open in Betaplayer (best video player out there) or WMP (if it is WMV). It stops sometimes, but picks up right where is left off.

I am using an iPAQ 4350 with builtin WiFi/Bluetooth and a PXA-255 400Mhz Processor. The bottleneck is the WiFi, because I can get mine to play 1000KBit with good quality.

[tobyrne]

Hey. I don't want to change the subject, but since we're talking about streaming over WiFi, maybe someone could help me with a small problem.

I have a Toshiba e750, playing re-encoded movies playing on BetaPlayer works flawlessly. Thing is, after a minute or two, I get a pop-up asking me to enter Login/Password for the shared network directory. But even when I fill in the info and check "Save Password", it shows up again and again. I tried with several different file management software (Resco File Explorer, NetworkBrowser, and more) but I keep on getting the same error.

I'm guessing this is a OS-related problem since the problem persists. Any suggestions ? Thanks.

[Darius Wey]

When you say you're playing re-encoded movies, are you playing it locally or over a network? Sorry, I need to clarify this before I give you a solution. ;)

[tobyrne]

When you say you're playing re-encoded movies, are you playing it locally or over a network? Sorry, I need to clarify this before I give you a solution. ;)

Sorry, my bad. It's playing off another computer on my home network. The local computer has no firewall activated and isn't password-protected.

[Darius Wey]

This may sound like a step back, but have you tried setting a password for your network, saving this password on the Pocket PC, and seeing if you still get the same pop-up notifications on your Pocket PC?

[tobyrne]

This may sound like a step back, but have you tried setting a password for your network, saving this password on the Pocket PC, and seeing if you still get the same pop-up notifications on your Pocket PC?

I'll give it a try, thanks.