Streaming Audio from Pocket PC Media

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketpcmedia.com/index.php3' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketpcmedia.com/index.php3</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ppcmedia_header3.gif" /> <br /><br />Got a wireless Pocket PC and looking for content? Well, if you haven't figured out the whole <a href="http://garage.docsearls.com/node/view/469">Podcasting</a> fad yet, this is a good alternative (though there aren't many links yet). Worth a look!

[arnage2]

awsome link.

another good site is http://di.fm the WM streams work with ppc.

[popabawa]

Is this just me? I'm getting a never-ending stream of adverts whichever feed I choose....

[rsljfp]

I'd like to let you know about a site we've built. It's pretty cool being able to listen to a variety of Internet Radio Shows on a mobile PocketPC, but, we too were frustrated by the difficulty is finding, and starting streams that would play on our PPCs, so, we build it.

http://www.radioshowlinks.com/
A Directory of Internet Radio Shows and Stations; Listen Live or On-Demand. The directory includes Schedules and Stream links for Talk Radio, Current Events, Business, the Arts, and other programming.

Many top talk radio shows can be found on the Popular Internet Radio Show channel including Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Al Franken, and others:
http://www.radioshowlinks.com/display.aspx?id=72471

Another channel includes many popular NPR and other Public Radio shows including streams directly from National Public Radio as well as webcasting internet radio stations from the NPR network.
For example, this channel has top National Public Radio shows:
http://www.radioshowlinks.com/display.aspx?id=72783

For many (most) PPC clients, it does the right thing ... the PocketPC "direct" URL is http://www.radioshowlinks.com/ppc/display.aspx for those devices that it doesn't do the right thing.

We also serve our schedules on RSS feeds. For example, this is the RSS feed of "Popular Shows Live Now" ...
http://www.radioshowlinks.com/rss.aspx?id=11

There are many more. It's all free; no registration required. It also works on Pocket PCs such as IPAQ and streaming capable cell phones such as the Nokia 3650 as well as a SmartPhone. Please check it out and let us know what you think about it and any suggestions you may have for shows, or stations, that we should add to our Internet Radio guide.

Thanks.

John

[Leon]

John, great site!

Do you know why on my PC, CNN Radio starts Media Player while on my PPC the same link tries to download a Real .rm file?

[Vidge]

I'm a real newbie at PPC and streaming but I was able to get some of the stations to play. Others wouldn't - they just wanted to download a file (I guess the same .rm files referred to above). Is there any way to force WM player to play these or do I need Real Player, too?

[Darius Wey]

I'm a real newbie at PPC and streaming but I was able to get some of the stations to play. Others wouldn't - they just wanted to download a file (I guess the same .rm files referred to above). Is there any way to force WM player to play these or do I need Real Player, too?

All .RM files will need RealPlayer. At the moment, WMP for the Pocket PC cannot handle these. On a side note however, there are two versions of RealPlayer: one is the standard 1.0, and the other is the 1.1PR. I'd go for 1.1PR, which you can download here. (http://www.realnetworks.com/industries/mobile/operators/products/player/ppc/index.html)

[Leon]

All .RM files will need RealPlayer.
That sounds logical. But the strange thing is that from the PC, the very same link will start Media Player and stream the radio program through that.

BTW, I will unlikely install RealOne software on my PC or PPC again.

[ctmagnus]

iirc, WMP on the desktop as far back as version 8 supports playing some real audio filetypes, but not all.

[Darius Wey]

All .RM files will need RealPlayer.
That sounds logical. But the strange thing is that from the PC, the very same link will start Media Player and stream the radio program through that.

BTW, I will unlikely install RealOne software on my PC or PPC again.

Media Player for the Pocket PC compared with the PC, is a lot like how Pocket Word is in the same context. It's "basic" in other words. But if you want true support for RealMedia, use the RealOne Player for the Pocket PC. I put a link in my previous post.

[Leon]

Media Player for the Pocket PC compared with the PC, is a lot like how Pocket Word is in the same context. It's "basic" in other words. But if you want true support for RealMedia, use the RealOne Player for the Pocket PC. I put a link in my previous post.

Thanks for clearing the difference between PC and PPC programs. :-)

Are you sure WMP for the PC supports RealMedia streams? If I look at the properties when streaming e.g. CNN on the desktop PC I see that the stream has an .asx extension, not .rm like on the PPC. According to http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q316992 RealMedia extensions are not supported by WMP.

[Darius Wey]

Are you sure WMP for the PC supports RealMedia streams? If I look at the properties when streaming e.g. CNN on the desktop PC I see that the stream has an .asx extension, not .rm like on the PPC. According to http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q316992 RealMedia extensions are not supported by WMP.

Nope. Windows Media Player for the PC won't handle .RM files either. Either way, whether it be for the PC or Pocket PC, you will need some form of Real player (RealPlayer or RealOne Player) to handle the files. Of course, there are alternative players out there for the PC that handle .RM files.

However, you will find out, as you've noticed with CNN, that a lot of news streams these days are done in the .ASX format which is WMP-friendly, both for the PC and Pocket PC.

[Leon]

I am really trying to understand what you say.

If I go to http://www.radioshowlinks.com/ppc/istation.aspx?id=83743 on my PC and click in Listen Live! then it starts streaming CNN on my PC without Real software installed, via WMP with an .asx extension in Properties.

If I go to http://www.radioshowlinks.com/ppc/istation.aspx?id=83743 on my PPC and click in Listen Live! then it tries to download a .rm file on my PPC (without Real software installed) and does not know what to do with it (understandably).

If you say WMP won't handle .rm files on the PC, why is it that I can stream CNN on the PC (in WMP) but not on the PPC using the very same link? If, as you say, CNN streams in .asx then why does that not work on my PPC and why PIE tries to download a .rm file?

[Darius Wey]

I am really trying to understand what you say.

If I go to http://www.radioshowlinks.com/ppc/istation.aspx?id=83743 on my PC and click in Listen Live! then it starts streaming CNN on my PC without Real software installed, via WMP with an .asx extension in Properties.

If I go to http://www.radioshowlinks.com/ppc/istation.aspx?id=83743 on my PPC and click in Listen Live! then it tries to download a .rm file on my PPC (without Real software installed) and does not know what to do with it (understandably).

If you say WMP won't handle .rm files on the PC, why is it that I can stream CNN on the PC (in WMP) but not on the PPC using the very same link? If, as you say, CNN streams in .asx then why does that not work on my PPC and why PIE tries to download a .rm file?

This is probably attributed to the way RSL recognises the OS that you have running (and any programs installed) and by way of an analytical method, determines the best file format to link you to. As I have RealPlayer installed on my PC, it sends me a .RM file. However, I tried playing that file through WMP, and expectedly, I get this error:

The selected file has an extension that is not recognised by Windows Media Player, but the Player may still be able to play it. &lt;snip snip>

But of course, it can't anyway. However, on the PPC, I also get a .RM file, and naturally, it opens through RealPlayer. Now if you get a .ASX file on the PC, but you're not getting the same thing on the PPC, RSL is probably recognising something different on the PPC to make it believe you have a player installed that handles the .RM extension.

Have you ever had RealPlayer installed on your Pocket PC, but uninstalled it?

[Leon]

OK, checking on CNN's side could be an explanation.

Have you ever had RealPlayer installed on your Pocket PC, but uninstalled it?

No, this is a brand new PPC, never installed RealPlayer on it.

[Darius Wey]

OK, checking on CNN's side could be an explanation.

Wheeeeeee...... :way to go:

http://www.radioshowlinks.com/ppc/configure.aspx &lt;&lt; This is the "Configure" link I talk about below.

There's a link on the earlier address you provided called Configure (situated at the top). This is probably what you're looking for. ;)

[Leon]

There's a link on the earlier address you provided called Configure (situated at the top). This is probably what you're looking for. ;)
Yep, that did the trick. Thanks!

[rsljfp]

A couple answers to questions posed above ...

On RealPlayer (RP) ...
- No, RP does not support windows media player (WMP) formats
- Several codecs are not available for PPC, so, some RP streams can't play on a PPC (but radioshowlinks doesn't have codec level information about the streams (yet))
- It seems like RP PPC can't do NAT traversal (informed hypothesis), so, to stream, the client PPC must be in the DMZ behind the router, or, directly connected (say, from a verizon 1x service)

On why you get a different stream from a PC or PPC ...
- Well, that's a feature ... RadioShowLinks (RSL) does some work to get you the "best" stream (many streaming sourcing have several streams of varying bandwidth and players) ... specifically one that the is the highest bandwidth for players you have installed ... so it's not CNN that's deciding what stream, it's RSL. Given some of the above problems with RP, on the PPC we decided to give preference to a WMP stream (if bandwidth is close to a tie). I think the Real stream from CNN might be a tad "better", but, on the PPC we serve up the WMP stream url.

As noted above, you can click on configure (at the top of the screen, and scroll down on the config screen to click "OK" to save your changes; bad UI on that page) to tell RSL what players and bandwidth you have. For a new user, it should default to only WMP, but it seems like it might be defaulting to all players, that's a bug, and we'll get it fixed.

Hope you enjoy listening ... we sure think it's pretty cool ... and let us know of any problems ... we'll get 'em sorted out.

Regards.

John

[Don't Panic!]

awsome link.

another good site is http://di.fm the WM streams work with ppc.di.fm no longer works on my Dell X30 through WMP for Pocket PC. I think it has to do with the site now requiring a plugin to listen on full PC's. I hate it when that happens. I really liked their Modern Jazz Channel.

Don't Panic!
Bobby

[Vidge]

John

Thanks for the explanation. I did notice that the default configuration on the PPC was to have all those items checked. Once I unchecked the RP one, I was able to get the streams (at least those that were available) to play in WM. Defaulting to WM is probably a good idea.

Also, is there a way to have something show when a feed is not available (because it is in RP and you don't have RP installed)? Unless I missed this, I haven't seen anything. I'm not too sure whether I should install RP or not. I found it too intrusive on my desktop - not sure whether I should put it on my PPC. (I do have it on my T3, since it's in ROM but I've not used it.)

[Darius Wey]

Also, is there a way to have something show when a feed is not available (because it is in RP and you don't have RP installed)? Unless I missed this, I haven't seen anything. I'm not too sure whether I should install RP or not. I found it too intrusive on my desktop - not sure whether I should put it on my PPC. (I do have it on my T3, since it's in ROM but I've not used it.)

RealOne for the PPC isn't as "invasive" as the PC version. You will find that the PPC version is merely a basic port that allows you to play your files. Don't expect all those over-populous services that you would otherwise expect on the PC version. ;)

If you feel as though you will use the player to play Real files, by all means, it's worth having just in case. I can't really say anything bad about it, unless you want to save a meg or two from its installation space. ;)

[rsljfp]

Thanks for the explanation. I did notice that the default configuration on the PPC was to have all those items checked. Once I unchecked the RP one, I was able to get the streams (at least those that were available) to play in WM. Defaulting to WM is probably a good idea.

Yup, it was a bug ... and fixed.


Also, is there a way to have something show when a feed is not available (because it is in RP and you don't have RP installed)? Unless I missed this, I haven't seen anything.

This is one of a class of "features" that we have debated, and left out. We've tried really hard to make it "simple" to understand, and use. We think this kind of "feature" helps the more curious tinkerers, at the expense of ease of use for the less knowledgable. If you want to, you can just configure it as if you had RP installed, and click to listen to a show. if it tries to download a .ram or .rm file, it's a RP stream (since we give preference to WMP streams on this platform. The short answer is that there are quite a few RP only streams, and is probably worth the install of it.


I'm not too sure whether I should install RP or not. I found it too intrusive on my desktop - not sure whether I should put it on my PPC. (I do have it on my T3, since it's in ROM but I've not used it.)

We haven't seen any nefarious behavior of the RP on the PPC. It's quite simple, and limited, compared to the desktop version. It can't process .smil files, only does UDP sessions, doesn't have mp3 cabability, seems to have trouble doing NAT traversal, is quite bandwidth limited, doesn't have some codecs, etc. However, it's quite useful for many streams and seems quite safe to install.

Have fun and enjoy!

John

[Vidge]

Thanks again. I think I'll give RP a try - however, I'm not sure what good it's going to do me. In reading the configuration page (on my PPC) it says that it doesn't stream over Wifi connections. If that's the case, it's not much use to me, anyway. (Guess I could stream in the cradle, but what's the fun of that? :lol: )

[Darius Wey]

Thanks again. I think I'll give RP a try - however, I'm not sure what good it's going to do me. In reading the configuration page (on my PPC) it says that it doesn't stream over Wifi connections. If that's the case, it's not much use to me, anyway. (Guess I could stream in the cradle, but what's the fun of that? :lol: )

The RealOne Player (PPC version) options do allow you to configure your network for the 802.11b protocol. I've never tried streaming over Wi-Fi for RP, but if the option is there, I'd assume it would work.

[rsljfp]

Thanks again. I think I'll give RP a try - however, I'm not sure what good it's going to do me. In reading the configuration page (on my PPC) it says that it doesn't stream over Wifi connections. If that's the case, it's not much use to me, anyway. (Guess I could stream in the cradle, but what's the fun of that? :lol: )

The RealOne Player (PPC version) options do allow you to configure your network for the 802.11b protocol. I've never tried streaming over Wi-Fi for RP, but if the option is there, I'd assume it would work.

Though the 802.11b option is there on the network configuration page on the PPC RP, we've never had any luck getting it to work unless it was in the DMZ. Our (somewhat informed) analysis leads us to believe that since the PPC RP can only stream UDP, and since UDP isn't friendly to NAT, we've convinced ourselves that it doesn't/can't work. One level down, the RP protocals seem to dynamically negotiate ports to use for sending the stream at session initiation time. A router, running NAT to a client, can't do this (or at least ours (we've tried a few)) can't. We've mucked with various router and port settings, all with no joy. Perhaps the 802.11b setting just sets buffer sizes, maximum throughput, and the like. Or, perhaps we've got this all wrong.

If anyone here has had success (we're testing on PPC 2002), please let us know ... there's lots of good programming available only on Real and we'd like to help people figure out how to do it.

Thanks.

John