Loox Like a Winner - A Review of the Loox 720 Pocket PC [Archive]

View Full Version : Loox Like a Winner - A Review of the Loox 720 Pocket PC

Doug Raeburn

10-25-2004, 05:00 PM

<img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-00.jpg" /> Product Category: Pocket PC Manufacturer: <a href="http://www.fujitsu-siemens.co.uk/products/mobile/handhelds/pocket_loox_700.html">Fujitsu Siemens</a> Where to Buy: <a href="http://www.clove.co.uk/products/products.asp?strAreaNo=400_1_10&intElement=529">Clove Technology</a> Price: £339 ($620 USD at current exchange rate) Specifications: 4.8" x 2.8" x .6", 6.0 oz., 3.6" VGA screen, Intel PXA270 520 mhz CPU, 128 MB RAM, 64 MB ROM, 802.11b, Bluetooth 1.2, 1640 mAH battery. Pros: <li>Screen is extremely sharp and bright; <li>Very compact for a full-featured unit; <li>Very speedy; <li>Lots of RAM; <li>Dual card slots; <li>WiFi and Bluetooth; <li>High quality construction and materials.Cons: <li>Flimsy battery door; <li>Mediocre camera; <li>Limited availability of accessories.The hardware side of Pocket PCs has been pretty quiet over the past year or so, and new models being introduced had very similar features in a given price range. But the hardware has gotten exciting again with the recent release of several new models from various manufacturers that feature screens with VGA resolution. Compared to the heavily promoted models from HP and Dell, the Loox 720 from Fujitsu Siemens is pretty much flying under the radar. Much of that is due to the fact that it’s not being marketed in the US or Canada. However, the 720 is widely available all over Europe in several languages, including German, French and Spanish, and it can be purchased from several vendors in the UK if you’re interested in an English language version. My take is that the Loox 720 may be the best Pocket PC that you’ve never heard of. Read on for the full story! <!> <PAGEBREAK> The Playing Field The recent introductions of the hx4700 and the X50v were major media events among Pocket PC sites. When the X50 was released, every major Pocket PC site (including this one) scrambled to make sure it had its review posted that same day. Meanwhile, the Loox 720 had a much quieter introduction, and the media frenzy was limited to a number of European-based sites and a few that are dedicated to Loox Pocket PCs. It’s unfortunate that lesser known Pocket PCs such as the Loox 720 and Asus A730 have been overshadowed by the attention lavished on the HP and Dell units, because they offer some very viable alternatives that deserve more careful consideration than they seem to be getting. Let’s see how they compare. The Specifications <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-01.gif" /> Figure 1: Tech specs. Figure 1 lists the hardware specs of the major VGA Pocket PCs, along with the specs of the iPAQ 2215, a popular dual-slot unit from HP’s previous generation. The VGA units have screen sizes ranging from 3.6 inches to 4.0 inches, with the Loox having the smallest VGA screen. However, the Loox does have a slightly larger screen than the most popular QVGA Pocket PCs from previous generations, such as the iPAQ 2215, 1945 and 4155, and it is an amazing screen, as I’ll demonstrate further on. There seem to be 2 schools of thought regarding memory configurations in these new devices. HP and Dell have stuck with the previous generation standard of 64 MB of RAM, but have provided large amounts of storage in flash ROM. The Loox, Asus and Toshiba units have gone the route of 128 MB of RAM, and all but the Asus provide additional flash ROM storage. More on that later. As for processors, the latest units all use the Intel PXA270 chip, clocked at either 520 or 624 MHz. The older Toshiba 800 and iPAQ 2215 both use earlier versions of the PXA chip family clocked at 400 MHz. Does Size Really Matter? <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-02-link.gif"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-02.gif" /></a> Figure 2: Dimensions… the 720 is surprisingly svelte. Click the chart above to see metric measurements. Sure, but how it matters depends on your priorities. As you might guess, the Toshiba and the hx4700, with their large 4 inch screens, have the largest overall dimensions as well, while the units with the smaller screens are also physically smaller overall. I had gotten quite used to the size of my iPAQ 2215, and decided that my next Pocket PC would be in that same general size range… I didn’t really want anything that was substantially bigger. The most key dimensions that translate into “bulk” are width and depth, and I was pleased to find that the Loox is actually slightly narrower and thinner than the 2215. It is slightly longer than the 2215, but to me, length is much less important (in a Pocket PC, that is…). The Loox is the narrowest of the VGA Pocket PCs and among the thinnest. When I hold it, it feels much like the 2215 size and weight-wise, despite weighing about .9 oz more. Other Specs and Features All of the units being discussed feature slots for CompactFlash Type II and SD cards. All are SDIO ready. The Loox comes with a standard 1640 mAh battery, which is a large battery by Pocket PC standards. Only the hx4700 has a larger standard battery (1800 mAh), and the Asus and Dell come with a comparatively small 1100 mAh battery. The Loox is the only currently available VGA Pocket PC with Consumer IR, so if you’re a Nevo fan, keep that in mind. It also meets the improved Bluetooth 1.2 specification… of the VGA units discussed here, only the Asus has the older 1.1 specification. A feature offered by the Loox (and Asus) is USB host functionality. This means that you can attach USB peripherals such as keyboards and keychain drives directly to the Loox. The HP and the Dell don’t offer this feature. Like the Asus, the Loox offers a 1.3 built-in megapixel camera with an LCD “flash”. While this may look good on the spec sheet and in brochures, the photo quality is mediocre at best. I’d personally prefer that they left the camera off, because it’s of little value, IMO. The Loox lacks a separate graphics accelerator, a feature of the HP and Dell. This will be of little consequence initially, as few software titles that take advantage of these graphics accelerators will be available at first. The degree to which software publishers will embrace the graphics accelerators is unknown. And it remains to be seen if the graphics accelerators will make a big difference in performance. One last feature of note is built-in support for VoIP, which gives the Loox the ability to serve as an Internet phone. <PAGEBREAK> A Visual Tour of the Loox 720 <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-03-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-03.jpg" /></a> Figure 3: The Loox 720 – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. The Loox has what I’d describe as a sleek and sophisticated “executive“ appearance, making it a good choice for business use. I prefer this look to the extremely techie “tricorder wannabe” appearance of the hx4700 and the rather dull and uninspired appearance of the Dell. Of course, that’s just my taste… style is a very personal thing. Above the screen, from left to right, you have the wireless indicator light, the VoIP speaker, the power/message light and the power switch. The bottom has the usual 4 application buttons and a joypad with the action button in the center. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-04-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-04.jpg" /></a> Figure 4: The view from the top – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. On the top, you’ll find the CompactFlash and SD slots, the stylus, the IR interface and the headphone jack. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-05-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-05.jpg" /></a> Figure 5: The view from the bottom – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. The bottom includes the reset button, the microphone and the ActiveSync port. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-06-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-06.jpg" /></a> Figure 6: The left side – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. The left side features a jog dial, and another application button. By default, it calls up the FSC SpeedMenu application, a cascading menu system. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-07-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-07.jpg" /></a> Figure 7: The right side – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. The right side has but one control, for the recorder. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-08-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-08.jpg" /></a> Figure 8: The back – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. On the back, you’ll find the battery door, the camera lens, the flash and the “self-portrait mirror”. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-09-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-09.jpg" /></a> Figure 9: The 720 next to the iPAQ 2215 – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. When placed next to the iPAQ 2215, you can see that other than length, the dimensions are very similar. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-10-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-10.jpg" /></a> Figure 10: The 720 next to the iPAQ 5455 – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. When placed next to the older iPAQ 5455, the Loox looks quite a bit smaller. And the 5455 doesn’t have dual slots (although it has a 3.8 inch screen). <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-11-link.JPG"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-11.jpg" /></a> Figure 11: How do they stack up? 5455 on top, 2215 in the middle, Loox 720 on the bottom. Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. Figure 11 shows the comparative thickness of the 3 units. The Loox is slightly thinner than the other two. The Loox impresses with a very solid and high quality feel. It’s on par with the 5455 and better than the 2215 when equipped with the flimsy standard rubber grips. However, when fitted with high quality replacement grips such as those from Pocket PC Techs, the 2215 has a similar high quality feel. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-12-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-12.jpg" /></a> Figure 12: The cradle – Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. The cradle is a stylish and sturdy feeling unit, with a space for charging a spare battery. One downside of buying a Pocket PC that’s designed for sale in another country is that AC plugs differ from country to country. The UK-targeted Loox that I received has an AC adaptor that can be used with 2 types of AC plugs commonly used in the UK, but it lacks the ability to be used with AC plugs in the US. It’s a simple matter of buying a plug converter from Radio Shack (no voltage converter is required), but it is a minor inconvenience. If you’re ordering a UK unit to use in the US, keep this in mind if you order one, so that you have the converter on hand when you receive the shipment. <PAGEBREAK> The Screen <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-13-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-13.gif" /></a> Figure 13: Agenda Fusion in VGA on the 720 – Click the image above to see the real screen shot. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-14.gif" /> Figure 14: Agenda Fusion in QVGA on the 2215 – the real screen shot. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-15-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-15.gif" /></a> Figure 15: Pocket Excel in VGA and landscape on the 720 – Click the image above to see the real screen shot. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-16.gif" /> Figure 16: Pocket Excel in QVGA and landscape on the 2215 – the real screen shot. VGA resolution promises an outstanding screen on a Pocket PC, so does the Loox deliver on this promise? Absolutely. Everything is sharp and highly detailed, text is laser printer crisp and the colors are bright. When entering text in Calligrapher, the online “ink” almost looks like real ink, and it looks better with the anti-aliasing mode turned off than on the 2215 with the anti-aliasing mode turned on. I’ve included some screenshots from the Loox and from the 2215 for comparison purposes. It’s difficult to set a level playing field with the screenshots, because the capture utilities capture the images at their native resolution. So the 2215 has smaller 320 x 240 screenshots, while the Loox has much larger 640 x 480 screenshots. Scaling the large screenshots down with graphics software doesn’t do them justice, so I included the shots as captured. Just imagine an image as crisp as the larger images, but in a smaller format on a Pocket PC screen. You really have to see it. The screen takes a very light touch. If you press hard, you’ll find a bit of what I call “shadowing” that follows the tip of the stylus. It disappears instantly when you lift the stylus. I’ve seen comments from hx4700 owners about a similar phenomenon, so it may be the nature of the beast. It doesn’t bother me at all, but some people might have an issue with it. Memory and Storage Space In his recent review of the Dell X50, Jason stated that he didn’t feel that any Pocket PC needed 128 MB of RAM, because he was able to install nearly all of his programs in the Dell’s Flash ROM. Be that as it may, my viewpoint on this topic differs from his for other reasons. The memory configuration was one area that greatly affected my purchase decision. My current workhorse unit, the 2215, has pretty close to the same kind of memory configuration as the hx4700 and X50v… a large SD card stands in for the standard flash ROM of the newer units. I keep lots of PIM information and e-mail on my Pocket PC and, because of the location of the databases on the Pocket PC, this data can be stored only in RAM. As a result, I was bumping into the limit of the RAM on the 2215 all the time, and I came to the decision that my next Pocket PC would have more RAM. Other folks have noted that with other RAM intensive processes such as using GPS software with large maps or playing large media files such as converted DVDs (as noted by Jason himself) may also prove to be a challenge for 64 MB of RAM. So although the total available storage is fairly similar on all of the new VGA units, I place more value on more RAM than on more Flash ROM, which gives the Loox a significant advantage in this area over the HP and the Dell, at least for my usage. So since there are still some Pocket PC functions that require lots of RAM, I have to say that I’m much more comfortable with 128 MB of RAM than with 64 MB of RAM and lots of Flash ROM. Pocket PC Techs seems to agree, since they’ve already released an upgrade to 128 MB of RAM for the hx4700. Battery Life The large battery that comes standard on the Loox is a big advantage as well. With as much as I used my 2215 at work, I have a pretty good sense for how long I can go before the battery is starting to get low enough to need a charge. I’ve worked for a comparable period of time with the Loox, to find that the battery was still at the 70% full range. This would be about when the 2215 would be at 35 – 45%. I have to say that this is the first Pocket PC with which I’ve actually stopped being concerned about the battery charge level. I didn’t run the battery benchmarks, but when using Spb Benchmark’s most strenuous test (maximum backlight, video playback), firstloox.org found that the 720 lasted for an impressive 6 hours 8 minutes. Suffice it to say that the 720 is among the very best performers in battery life of any Pocket PC currently available. <PAGEBREAK> The Camera It seems that many manufacturers of portable electronic devices are convinced that people need a camera everywhere they go. So we have the onslaught of cell phone designs that include a digital camera. And now it’s beginning to move into the PDA arena. It’s just too bad that these cameras yield results that range from mediocre to bad. And the camera in the Loox is no exception. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-17-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-17.jpg" /></a> Figure 17: An indoor shot with the Loox 720 - Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-18-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-18.jpg" /></a> Figure 18: The same indoor shot with a Canon G6 digital camera - Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. I took 2 similar indoor photos, one with the Loox 720, shown in Figure 17, and one with my regular digital camera, shown in Figure 18. The photos are just as they came from the cameras, other than a color balance correction to compensate for the ambient tungsten lighting. As you can see, compared to the photo from the Canon, the Loox photo is softly focused with low contrast and poorly saturated colors. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-19-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-19.jpg" /></a> Figure 19: An outdoor shot with the Loox 720 - Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-20-link.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-20.jpg" /></a> Figure 20: The same outdoor shot with a Canon G6 digital camera - Click the image above for a larger version of the photo. Cameras such as the one in the Loox tend to do their best with natural light, so I took another pair of pictures with both cameras, this time using an outdoor scene. The Loox did somewhat better here, with better color saturation. But the photo is still very softly focused when compared to the Canon. To be fair, the Loox has a fixed focus lens, while the Canon has a high quality auto-focus lens, but the soft focus of the Loox was still disappointing. The Loox camera software features 4 different image sizes and a number of photo effects that it calls “ambiance”. The latter is a bit counterintuitive for more experienced photographers, as it includes settings for incandescent and fluorescent, similar to settings for white balance on other cameras. However, with typical cameras, selecting fluorescent compensates for the blue cast inherent to fluorescent lights; with the Loox, it adds an effect to make the picture look like it was taken under fluorescent lights. One minor advantage over the similar camera in my cell phone is that the Loox provides an LED that functions as a flash. It does help a bit in low light conditions. There are a few more things that could be said about the camera, but I’ll leave it at this. And I’ll recommend that you not consider the camera as any kind of real advantage for the Loox over the competition, unless your standards for photographic quality are very low. This is one feature that could have been left off, in my opinion, and it’s the only real issue that I have with this otherwise very impressive device. <PAGEBREAK> Benchmarks <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-21.jpg" /> Figure 21: Benchmark index. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-22.jpg" /> Figure 22: CPU index. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-23.jpg" /> Figure 23: File system index. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/raeburn-oct04-loox720-24.jpg" /> Figure 24: Graphics index. There were few surprises in the benchmarking results. When compared to the results posted by Jason for the X50, the CPU and File System indices are right in line given CPU speed. And the Graphics index results are not unexpected either, given the Dell’s graphics accelerator. But the 720 beats the 2215 and 5450 quite handily. Firstloox.org tested the 720 at playing .avi files and found video playback to be very smooth. Beyond the Benchmarks Benchmarks are all fine and good, but how does the Loox perform in everyday use? Overall, I’m very satisfied. Responsiveness shows marked improvements over the 2215. Most noticeable is the speed with which Agenda Fusion and Pocket Informant display when activated from an application button. Both products also switch views instantaneously, and changing category filters on a large set of contacts takes under a second. Large spreadsheets still load fairly slowly, though faster than on the 2215. But once a spreadsheet is loaded, searching, sorting and other functions are very speedy. I imagine that this has as much to do with the Loox’s more generous memory headroom as with the faster processor. Most games also performed very well, from simple games like Solitaire and Jawbreaker to more graphically complex games as Toki Tori and Landware’s Shanghai Pocket Essentials. Toki Tori in particular was much smoother and more responsive than with the 2215. The only game that I’ve played so far that’s slower than on the 2215 is Astraware’s Diamond Mine. In everyday use, the Loox 720 provides a satisfying sense of speed, especially compared to my 2 iPAQs. A few more observations: <li>The battery cover is very thin, although it fits well. <li>The power switch is a little too sensitive. <li>Buttons and joypad have a quality feel, and the joypad seems quite responsive. <li>The stylus is too thin and light, but it’s adequate. <li>The reset button can’t be pressed with the stylus… the top of the stylus must be removed, which provides a small pointer for pressing the button. <li>The loudspeaker is easily the best that I’ve ever found on a Pocket PC… it sounds crisp, rather than tinny like most others. <PAGEBREAK> The Wonderful World of Wireless Like the competition, the 720 comes with both WiFi (802.11b) and Bluetooth. Both are quick to connect and the connections are strong, but the same could be said for the 2215 with its built-in Bluetooth and an SMC Wireless CompactFlash card. What is notable, however, is the ease of using WEP encrypted wireless networks. With both of the iPAQs, the settings were fussy and the interface was disjointed. With the 720, however, connection is simple. When you select an encrypted network, it prompts you for the key and then it figures everything else out and voila, you’re connected. I’m not sure how much of this ease of use is compliments of WM 2003 SE and how much the Loox itself brings into the picture, but it’s dramatically simpler. The ConnectMate E2C application also makes it simple to switch from one network to another. It stores all configuration and security information for a network under a user-defined name, so switching from my home network to the network at Starbucks is a piece of cake. With this generation of devices, wireless connections are finally becoming easy enough for the “non-geeks” among us to use Stranger in a Strange Land? Ordering and purchasing a Pocket PC from a merchant overseas who doesn’t have explicit support for US sales does introduce some challenges. For example, if you order from a US-based retailer like Best Buy or Amazon and you need to speak to someone about your order, you just call the ever-present, ever-handy 800 number. Not so when dealing with a retailer out of the UK… an international call is required. Not to mention the fact that purchasing an expensive tech device from a foreign country tripped the automatic fraud protection at my credit card company, turning a simple purchase authorization into a major hassle, despite the best efforts of the merchant. Of course, the order fulfillment issues came on the tail of a series of delivery promises from Fujitsu Siemens to the merchants, who then made their own delivery promises, which all fell through several times when Fujitsu Siemens missed the delivery dates. The result was many very frustrated “early adopters” whose need for instant gratification was left unsatisfied for weeks. This certainly was not the merchants’ faults, but they were the ones who got the earful when the customers felt compelled to vent. Although such an order carries with it the potential for issues, I feel fortunate that everything went as smoothly as it did for me, and the vendor had everything to do with it. I would like to commend the folks at Clove Technology in the UK, who did everything in their power to expedite both the shipments from Fujitsu Siemens to Clove and the shipments from Clove to their anxious customers. They did the best they could under very difficult circumstances, and always remained friendly and professional even in the face of some scathing posts on various sites unfairly blaming them for things that were beyond their control. Since they were so responsive to all e-mails that I sent, I didn’t have to resort to any international phone calls. Based on my experience, I’d order from Clove again without hesitation. Back to the issues… service could also be a bit more difficult. At this point, I’m not certain if my Loox would have to be shipped to Europe for service, or if a US-based partner would handle service. I’ve heard it suggested that Fujitsu service centers in the US would handle Loox service, but to my knowledge that’s never been verified Finally, it seems that the lack of marketing for the Loox in North America relegates it to second-string status as far as some third party manufacturers are concerned. For example, the options for cases for the Loox are far more limited than with an iPAQ. In the “premium” case market, Piel Frama offers a case for the Loox, but Vaja has indicated that they aren’t planning to do so. Also, one of the first accessories that I purchase for a new Pocket PC is a replacement stylus from PDA Panache. Not this time, though… they don’t support the Loox. Don’t get me wrong, there are many accessories available for the Loox, but the selection is considerably slimmer than with more widely marketed Pocket PCs. Conclusion A few minor quibbles aside, the Loox 720 is easily the finest Pocket PC that I've ever used. It has so many things going for it... the beautiful screen, the fast processor, plenty of RAM, long battery life, dual memory card slots and dual wireless options. Solid build and sophisticated executive styling are further pluses. The competition from HP and Dell may get more fanfare, but if you're looking for a powerful and full featured Pocket PC in a compact ''pocket friendly" package, the Loox 720 should be at the top of a very short list.

juni

10-25-2004, 05:15 PM

Since I'm still :bad-words: at HP for not providing an update for my HP2210 I've been looking into other companies devices and this is the one I'm probably going to get. Good review :)

Darius Wey

10-25-2004, 05:29 PM

Doug, thank you for that extensive review. Clearly a lot of effort put into it.

A feature offered by the Loox (and Asus) is USB host functionality. This means that you can attach USB peripherals such as keyboards and keychain drives directly to the Loox. The HP and the Dell don’t offer this feature.

The USB host functionality is a great asset to have on a Pocket PC. I think this makes it stand out over the HP and Dell Pocket PCs by far. But this is really based on personal preference. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32807) I like the idea of being able to stick my USB peripherals in when I want to. Do you know how many volts it provides though?

While this may look good on the spec sheet and in brochures, the photo quality is mediocre at best. I’d personally prefer that they left the camera off, because it’s of little value, IMO.

I agree. The pictures from the camera are not that great. Call me fussy if you must but I don't even think the position of the camera on the device is all that aesthetically pleasing. O2 are one of the better companies out there that make a camera on a Pocket PC pleasing to look at. However, with a host of new technologies (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=U&start=7&q=http://news.mobile9.com/2004/10/samsung-sch-s250-5-mp-cellphone/&e=1102) in mobile camera solutions, one can only hope that the quality of pictures delivered from mobile devices will be fantastic in the not-so-distant future.

The Loox lacks a separate graphics accelerator, a feature of the HP and Dell. This will be of little consequence initially, as few software titles that take advantage of these graphics accelerators will be available at first. The degree to which software publishers will embrace the graphics accelerators is unknown. And it remains to be seen if the graphics accelerators will make a big difference in performance.

That is an interesting point. With Dell making a move to provide the Intel 2700, we'll start to see whether or not mobile graphic performance is an agenda in the production of future devices. In my opinion, I don't believe we will see true innovation of the concept until WM2005 bursts into the scene to provide Direct3D Mobile. NVIDIA's GoForce and ATI's Imageon are just waiting to explode into the market to provide the best in handheld graphic performance.

It's nice to see that while the Loox provides USB, excellent battery performance and a wad of memory, and on the other side of the scale, we see Dell provide a graphics acclerator and a fast 624MHz processor, one can only imagine what the next generation of Pocket PCs have in store for us. Hopefully, coalescence of the best features of the current devices will be achieved, because quite frankly, with the devices offered at the moment, we simply can't get the best of both worlds. This is why I'm willing to wait until WM2005 debuts, and only then, may we see the full potential of the brute power that the Pocket PCs can have in the handheld market.

On a side note, I couldn't help but notice the nice icons in the VGA screenshot of Agenda Fusion. Is this a feature only implemented in VGA devices or is it a separate version altogether from the already available 6.32?

lilasp

10-25-2004, 05:34 PM

manywhere

10-25-2004, 05:39 PM

Grrreat review, Doug! ;)

The USB host functionality is a great asset to have on a Pocket PC. I think this makes it stand out over the HP and Dell Pocket PCs by far. But this is really based on personal preference. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32807) I like the idea of being able to stick my USB peripherals in when I want to. Do you know how many volts it provides though?
Well, I suspect that is the regular USB voltage -- what is that? 12 volts?. I have successfully used an Apple keyboard with my Loox (only supported US keyboard, although the keyboard was Finnish/Swedish), external USB harddrive and a USB memory! :D The USB mouses I tried with did not render any cursor or events, so that is the part missing. Now, I'm wondering what USB accessory to try next... :P

As for the camera, yeah the location on the device is quite bad. I manage to always have a finger over the camera lens when attempting to take a photo. :roll: Otherwise, the camera is good (http://www.filips.net/archives/2004/10/25/fujitsu-siemens-loox-720-pictures/) for doing some moblogging, IMO. ;)

Darius Wey

10-25-2004, 05:40 PM

Hi
You're just in time. I'm looking for a PDA that I can use instead of my laptop. Soemthing that has: wi-fi, bluetooth, slots cf etc,fast, pc mobile 2003 software, keyboard etc. Does anyone have any suggestions and why? Thanks

Does the "above-mentioned" product fancy you? ;) There's a whole lot of "love" to be had for the Loox 720. :P

manywhere

10-25-2004, 05:41 PM

Hi
You're just in time. I'm looking for a PDA that I can use instead of my laptop. Soemthing that has: wi-fi, bluetooth, slots cf etc,fast, pc mobile 2003 software, keyboard etc. Does anyone have any suggestions and why? Thanks
Uhh, the Loox might fit you needs if you also get a StowAway Bluetooth keyboard to go with it! ;) Too bad it isn't available for you in the US. :(

Darius Wey

10-25-2004, 05:46 PM

Well, I suspect that is the regular USB voltage -- what is that? 12 volts?. I have successfully used an Apple keyboard with my Loox (only supported US keyboard, although the keyboard was Finnish/Swedish), external USB harddrive and a USB memory! :D The USB mouses I tried with did not render any cursor or events, so that is the part missing. Now, I'm wondering what USB accessory to try next... :P

Well my main issue was being able to provide power for a USB bus-powered HDD. Providing power for a USB flashdrive is one thing, but providing power for an HDD is another. But it's good to know that you can. :way to go:

I sincerely hope that any future upgrades to the OS does not (and I stress this to no endpoint) incorporate XP SP2's niggling feature (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=870893) of not being able to function properly with bus-powered devices. Any implementation of that will drop the idea of a USB host on a Pocket PC to low levels, IMO.

lilasp

10-25-2004, 05:51 PM

Actually this does fancy me. I was trying to get to this site to ask for suggestions when this came in my email. I would probagbly buy one now if I knew I could use it in USA without problems. and where I can get the best deal. Right now I have a Toshiba e805 :? , which is okay but I'm looking for something better and bigger (or should I say smaller). :mrgreen: What do you think about Sharp Zaurus sl-c860? This is another one I'm looking at.

Duncan

10-25-2004, 05:52 PM

Where to Buy: Clove Technology (http://www.clove.co.uk/products/products.asp?strAreaNo=400_1_10&intElement=529)
Price: £339 ($620 USD at current exchange rate)

Great review Doug! Just thought I'd mention that Clove offer a £10 discount off that £339 - details (http://www.firstloox.org/index.php?categoryid=1&p2_articleid=46)

Silencer

10-25-2004, 05:56 PM

Especially with SE_VGA the Loox is a great piece of hardware. I have ordered one as soon as it was available and don´t regret it. Compared with the extremly high price of the hx4700, it´s the better decision I think. Here are http://www.ppc-welt.info/community/showthread.php?t=56163 if you need some.

manywhere

10-25-2004, 05:58 PM

Well my main issue was being able to provide power for a USB bus-powered HDD. Providing power for a USB flashdrive is one thing, but providing power for an HDD is another. But it's good to know that you can. :way to go:
Oh yeah, that's true. (I forgot that :oops: ) However, I can not remember if the power was plugged in the harddrive when I tested it (which, btw, wasn't mine). I technically think that it should be possible to do without the power depending naturally on the harddrive itself. Eitherway, the pocket PC or the harddrive would need power to stay alive long enough... :lol:

Deus

10-25-2004, 07:38 PM

I currently have an order for the X50v and I have been on the edge about canceling and getting the 720. Thanks for the great info. I am still undecided though :\

ahhhhhhhhhhhh

johncruise

10-25-2004, 07:49 PM

Oh yeah, that's true. (I forgot that :oops: ) However, I can not remember if the power was plugged in the harddrive when I tested it (which, btw, wasn't mine). I technically think that it should be possible to do without the power depending naturally on the harddrive itself. Eitherway, the pocket PC or the harddrive would need power to stay alive long enough... :lol:

Just a tip... have a friend poke the attached USB cable on your Loox and see how much current is flowing through...

Standard should be 5v and 500mA

:D

snakyjake

10-25-2004, 08:16 PM

Boxster S

10-25-2004, 08:57 PM

surur

10-25-2004, 09:45 PM

I've been a bit disappointed by comparing the camera's quality to that of point and shoot cameras for scenic or portrait shots, which I doubt is the intended use. For myself, the intended use of the PDA camera is to have a camera available to me when I'm in a meeting with my PDA. When someone writes something on the whiteboard, instead of scribing, I can simply take a photo of the whiteboard with the presented information. I believe for this use it works fine. Another use is perhaps using the camera to take quick photos of pages of books or magazine articles. Ever find a good paragraph in a book and wanted to capture it without writing or getting a photocopy/facsimile? Just take the photo and you've got it.

I would like to recommend the PDA camera be reviewed based on business/school use (such as whiteboard photos or facsimile).

Thank you.

I agree completely, and this is exactly how I use the VGA camera on my XDA 2. When taking a picture of text however it is sometimes frustrating to find the resolution too low to make all the writing clear. Upping the resolution to 1.3Megapixel + a flash will make black and white text much easier to capture.

I could care less about colour fidelity. If this was a phone edition device I would be all over it :drool:

Surur

Doug Raeburn

10-25-2004, 10:39 PM

I picked up a pre-order for an Axim X50v for $454 shipped after 15% discount and tax. Thank goodness for Dell and their low prices :lol:

I'm still not seeing why I would fork over an additional $160+ dollars for the Loox. The digicam is woefully inferior to my lovely 5MP Sony F717 and a lot of companies won't let you have devices with camera built in for security/privacy issues.

128 MB of RAM, mainly... as software developers push the envelope, 64 MB is becoming marginal, and as processes need more memory, it's RAM they need, not Flash ROM. And IMO, you can't be too rich, too thin, or have too much RAM. Apparently enough people agree that PPC Techs is already offering a 64 MB to 128 MB upgrade for the hx4700... for a cool $199.

Also, a high capacity battery as standard. From the tests I've seen, it appears that battery life with the standard battery is more of a strength of the Loox than of the Dell.

Then you have USB hosting, VoIP capabilities, CIR.

But you're right about the camera... they should have left it off and taken something off the price. But I think the security issues are overblown... that hasn't stopped virtually every new cell phone design from having a camera.

At any rate, to each his or her own. What provides value for one may be of no consequence to another. To me, the extra money for the 720 is worth it.

Doug Raeburn

10-25-2004, 10:53 PM

As for the USB hosting, I did try with a keychain flash drive, and it worked great. It just showed up as another device like a memory card. I didn't try a hard drive, though. Rumor has it that WM has a relatively low limit regarding maximum drive size, at least compared to a desktop OS like XP.

DanielTS

10-25-2004, 11:16 PM

Then you have USB hosting, VoIP capabilities, CIR.

How long is the CIR range ?

kinged

10-25-2004, 11:16 PM

For those of you in US, you can get it here.

http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=LOOX_720

Reidar

10-25-2004, 11:56 PM

Thanks for the detailed review! You have covered all the key points. I received my Loox 720 last Friday, and spent part of the weekend installing software and upgrading some of it. I agree that the screen is amazing. The machine is very fast; web browsing over a WiFi connection now works well, especially in landscape mode.

I have no particular views on the built in camera. I use two digital cameras, and don't expect to use the Loox for picture taking -- unless it is a matter of getting a quick record where the picture quality doesn't matter.

One software related disappointment is that the TenGO soft keyboard will not work with the VGA screen (it shows up as a ridiculously tiny keyboard in a corner); when asked they said they do not currently have a VGA version.

Other points:

- my Loox came with a (fairly large) US plug adapter
- the USB host is great, but I have only been able to get the flash type disks to work. I have a 20 Gb compact hard drive (Freecom) that plugs into a USB port, but the Loox does not recognize it. This is the most compact and easy to use external hard drive available, and I had hoped to use it with the Loox -- access to huge amounts of data, plus an excellent way to back up memory cards from digital cameras while traveling. I suspect there is insufficient power coming through the USB cord. If anybody has any ideas on how to make this work, let me know!
- Pocket Controller has already released a skin for the Loox 720; the connection works fine, and the responsiveness on screen seems much faster than my old Dell Axim X5.
- not all software seems to work well in landscape mode. Textmaker only fills up part of the screen (although it could be that I have a version that needs upgrading).

Now I hope some good quality cases will become available!

Duncan

10-26-2004, 12:01 AM

I suspect there is insufficient power coming through the USB cord. If anybody has any ideas on how to make this work, let me know!

The port doesn't supply enough power for the drive - you need to power the drive directly.

Textmaker only fills up part of the screen (although it could be that I have a version that needs upgrading).

Yes - you do. The latest version works just fine.

As for a case - Piel Frama do an excellent one.

Reidar

10-26-2004, 12:27 AM

Thanks, Duncan. Unfortunately the Freecom hard drive can only be powered through a USB connection -- any thoughts on how I can manage this and connect to the Loox at the same time?

jasondearyou

10-26-2004, 01:07 AM

the loox is my choice now, i was kinda over joyed with the x50v but now i am falling back towards the loox, just have to be patient.

Peseta

10-26-2004, 02:28 AM

Unfortunately the Freecom hard drive can only be powered through a USB connection -- any thoughts on how I can manage this and connect to the Loox at the same time?

To connect an USB harddrive to my Casio E-200, I used an USB hub (with a power connector) between the PPC and the harddrive.
I powered the hub with the supplied AC-adapter or on travels with a "PDA Battery Extender" (http://www.semsons.com/pdabatexpocp.html)

This battery extender is a cheap option as extra battery because it uses standard AA batteries (up till 2300 mAh with NiMH) and for me the unmissable accessory when I'm travelling.

Reidar

10-26-2004, 02:59 AM

The suggestion of a powered USB hub looks good -- I'll try that! Thanks for the tip![/quote]

lilasp

10-26-2004, 03:22 AM

Thanks to all of you, I bought the loox 720. I bought it through a UK dealer Clove Tech. Do I need to get an adapter for the USA? :?:

Doug Raeburn

10-26-2004, 04:26 AM

Thanks to all of you, I bought the loox 720. I bought it through a UK dealer Clove Tech. Do I need to get an adapter for the USA? :?:

I did... just a simple plug adapter that you can get at most Radio Shacks. The AC adapter itself works just fine, so you don't need a voltage converter.

Congrats on your new acquisition... have fun!

Doug Raeburn

10-26-2004, 04:42 AM

Then you have USB hosting, VoIP capabilities, CIR.

How long is the CIR range ?

It's worked as far as 15 feet away... I haven't tested it any further.

DanielTS

10-26-2004, 08:21 AM

It's worked as far as 15 feet away... I haven't tested it any further.
Thanks! :D

rEVOLVE

10-27-2004, 03:03 AM

Well, I think I can now narrow my choices to the HP hx2700 series and this FS Loox. I think I held the FS and the ASUS w/ relatively equal weight until I realized the Loox has CIR (& the stylus silo isn't upside down). Also the DPAD & buttons look easier to deal w/ for some of the action games I've purchased.

For those of you who've purchased this Loox 720, how is the DPAD button responsiveness when playing games? Does it support simultaneous presses (i.e. pressing the DPAD in a direction and pressing another button to fire doesn't cancel out either signal from registering)?

I'm hoping someone comes out w/ a nice vertical opening hard-case. I've been very happy w/ the aluminum one we ordered for our HP 2200's and want something similar for my new unit.

The only reason I'm still considering the newly announced HP hx2700 is the promise of a slip-on thumb-board, BT headphones, translucent FLIP COVER, and possibly more accessories.

I really hate being in the position of buying a great product, but very little aftermarket/OEM accessories available.

In regards to USB hard drives, what about MP3 players like the Archos w/ 20 GB HD's - since they're meant to be portable audio players, they already come w/ batteries and may not need external power for USB connectivity. Archos is one of the few out there that support folder file structure and Mass Storage detection (they autodetect as a HD w/o drivers).

WialyDiody

10-27-2004, 04:02 PM

Just got mine on Monday :) I love it, I'm upgrading from an old iPaq 3700 so it's quite a big step up... The 720 was the one that I decided that I wanted way back when I first read it's specs, then I found that it wasn't going to be available here in the states and I was disappointed so I looked closely at all the others (830, 4700, x50v, A730) over the next few months and would have ended up with a Asus 730w if it had been available any time soon, but I then found that expansys was selling the 720 for $589 USD. And what's better, expansys's office was about 2 miles from my house. 8O They were great to work with, I went by and picked one up, and they said 'oh wait, I think you need an US AC converter for that' and went in the back and grabbed one and gave it too me at no charge.

It is way smaller than I thought it would be, but again, I'm coming from an iPaq that I carried in my pocket 24x7 with a silver slider CF jacket, so most things would be small to me. I do have the same gripes that all these others have though, the camera is a joke, the cradle doesn't have arms to hold it, so it could easily get knocked out, the battery door is stupid, and the AC adapter is huge (this isn't really FSC's fault though, it comes with a slot that you can slide an EUR or UK module in, then on top of that is the big 'ol US converter, plus it's not really a problem since the old iPaq adapter fits it just fine).
I haven't been able to get any USB devices to work with it though, I've tried a Compaq Mouse, a MS Mouse, a Sandisk Cruzer drive, and a USB HD, they all light up, but are never recognized by the Loox, I'm not sure if there's something I have to do to enable 'Host' or if it's just my rotten luck of devices...
These gripes are all very minor in the overall picture though, the screen is awesome and SE_VGA makes it into a truly usable device IMHO. I do a lot of my work in a web based helpdesk and VGA with SE_VGA lets me see and interact with the whole interface easily, I had tried it in QVGA, but there is so much on the screen at once that I need to be able to see it never worked out.
The battery life is crazy, my iPaq got to the point that it would only last about 35 minutes (with the backlighting off :) ). I can't seem to run this one down, it just keeps going...
So the moral of the story is that it's a great little device, and I'm happy that I got it. If you are looking for a device that has it all (minus a added on graphics processor) this is about the only one out right now (HP and Dell were really close, but left out USB Host, CIR, and a convenient VoIP form factor, the first two of which were important to me, and Asus left out WiFi for the time being).

Matt

lilasp

10-27-2004, 04:53 PM

Thats great to hear. :D I won't get mine until Thurs or Fri. :( Hoping to be able to use it like a laptop. Is there a keyboard (portable) for it? Everything I've read so far makes this PDA sound like its one if not the best out there. I've been using a Toshiba e805 which I just gave to my daughter (business partner too). She's having to get use to all these gadgets again. She just got back from her year in Iraq. :!:

jasondearyou

10-27-2004, 06:10 PM

This device i hope has some upgrade to use these additional devices, i hope i don't have that same problem. its very interesting that HP didn't do these thing in their devices. HP get with the program.

WialyDiody

10-27-2004, 06:53 PM

Hoping to be able to use it like a laptop. Is there a keyboard (portable) for it?
That was my intention too (for the most part), my iPaq pretty well just ended up being a machine to play Slay on because I don't really use the PIM functions and the screen realestate was just too tight for me to get any real work done, but that's not the case now. :) In my business if I'm offline for more than about 7 or 8 hours at a time I start loosing sales and yesterday I had to go to an Intel Conference all day, while I was there I was able to log on to the hotel's network and keep working as if I were at my laptop, and then on the way back home, could connect via BT/GPRS through my phone. I'm seriously considering not even lugging my beast of a laptop on vacation next month, I can do probably 85% of what I need now just on my PPC. It's a whole new paradigm for me. (I'm a little excited about it all if you can't tell ;) )
As for a keyboard, I'm sure any BlueTooth keyboard would work just fine, some USB keyboards may work, but I don't know of a loox specific keyboard yet (but I haven't looked around).
And just as an addition to my earlier post, I tried another generic USB flash drive and it works fine so I checked sandisk's web site, but no PPC drivers for their flash devices yet, maybe one day...

jasondearyou

10-28-2004, 05:43 PM

couldn't they just load the ps2 drivers for all the keyboards and let it go just like that?

juni

10-28-2004, 05:57 PM

I'm starting to get worried about the lack of a graphics accelerator, what if a whole host of apps suddenly appear which use it? :(

Reidar

10-29-2004, 01:01 AM

Is there a keyboard (portable) for it?

I have just ordered the Stowaway Bluetooth keyboard for my Loox. It works great -- but not without installation problems; the Loox locked up completely and I had to do a hard reset. Irritating. I tried again, and this time it worked. The difference seems to be that the drivers must be installed to RAM rather than to the "Loox Store" drive, where I first tried.

On the USB devices: I picked up a mains-powered USB hub from Radio Shack, connected my USB hard disk through the hub, and it works fine.

lilasp

10-30-2004, 05:10 AM

Where did you find the keyboard? Is it portable? thanks.

Reidar

10-30-2004, 02:53 PM

Where did you find the keyboard? Is it portable? thanks.

The keyboard folds up nicely and comes with a little pouch. It has been discussed in these fora earlier. Some people dislike that it doesn't have a numbers row; you have to use a function key to type numbers.

Here is the website with description and ordering information:

http://www.thinkoutside.com/products/stowaway-bt.html

Doug Raeburn

10-30-2004, 04:06 PM

Based on some suggestions in an earlier post, I thought I'd try the Loox's camera to record a whiteboard and a printed page. Here's the results:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/LOOX_00005_thumb.jpg (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/LOOX_00005_full.jpg)
Figure 1: Whiteboard image - click on image for larger version

The whiteboard image didn't fare too badly... most of the text is decipherable, so this may be a viable option.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/LOOX_00007_thumb.jpg (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/LOOX_00007_full.jpg)
Figure 2: Full printed page - click on image for larger version

The full printed page didn't work well... the lens lacks the sharpness necessary for readable text. The flash didn't help here... it just caused lots of glare. I tried the same test with non-glossy paper with similar results.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/LOOX_00008_thumb.jpg (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/LOOX_00008_full.jpg)
Figure 3: Partial printed page - click on image for larger version

For my last attempt, I thought I'd try getting up close to the printed page, to see if larger text would help. Unfortunately, a fixed focus lens just doesn't do well with macro type shots, so the image is too blurry to read.

So it seems that recording a whiteboard with the camera is a viable option, but printed pages aren't.

lilasp

10-30-2004, 10:16 PM

Thank you.

manywhere

11-01-2004, 08:47 PM

Based on some suggestions in an earlier post, I thought I'd try the Loox's camera to record a whiteboard and a printed page. Here's the results:
...[Pics removed to shorten quote]...
For my last attempt, I thought I'd try getting up close to the printed page, to see if larger text would help. Unfortunately, a fixed focus lens just doesn't do well with macro type shots, so the image is too blurry to read.

So it seems that recording a whiteboard with the camera is a viable option, but printed pages aren't.
Interestingly, I got the same result. However, this could be fixed by some quick and dirty coding that simply tries to sharpen the image and the text to something more readable. I'll do some research on that and see if I have enough time to start making some freeware app to help us all.
Adding to the mix would be OCR, but that is something that I'm not ready to mess with yet. (Time is limited, sadly.)

lilasp

11-01-2004, 08:58 PM

I just read your reply about doing a fix for the camera. :D If you could get that to work it woud be great. I wish I knew all the stuff you guys do. 8O I just want to say you're all wonderful and ever so helpful. Thank you all again. :way to go:

jasondearyou

11-19-2004, 01:11 PM

Wow, messing with the camera's code to make it get sharper images, wow, that's deep. i'd like to get there some day, giving that infomation, how is it that the manifactors didn't do that?

:evil:

theone3

11-19-2004, 03:16 PM

Wow, messing with the camera's code to make it get sharper images, wow, that's deep. i'd like to get there some day, giving that infomation, how is it that the manifactors didn't do that?
:evil:If this is sarcasm, then it's poorly placed. Obviously manufacturers wouldnt do it because most of the target market isnt looking to take pictures or whiteboards. ;)

BTW, the Dell Axim has CIR and also a microphone/headset+mic plug. I'm not sure if that amounts to VoIP (it also has wifi)

riuster

12-08-2004, 10:04 PM

Hi
You're just in time. I'm looking for a PDA that I can use instead of my laptop. Soemthing that has: wi-fi, bluetooth, slots cf etc,fast, pc mobile 2003 software, keyboard etc. Does anyone have any suggestions and why? Thanks
Uhh, the Loox might fit you needs if you also get a StowAway Bluetooth keyboard to go with it! ;) Too bad it isn't available for you in the US. :(

INCORRECT, its available IN DA USA!!!

http://www.expansys-usa.com/product.asp?code=LOOX_720

riuster

12-08-2004, 10:08 PM

WialyDiody

12-09-2004, 03:59 PM

you got it for 589 dollars its now 620 at expansys..WTF!

Heh, yeah, expansys' prices are anything but stable. :) When I decided to order it I think it was like $599 or something then a couple of days later when I actually did order it the price had dropped to $589, the a few hours after I ordered it for that price it jumped up to $620.
I imagine the price rollercoster is due to the fact that it is a UK import (like another poster said, the 720 *technically* isn't available in the US, expansys just imports and resells them, FSC doesn't sell them here) so the actual price expansys pays for them changes on a daily basis.
Matt

riuster

12-09-2004, 07:35 PM