classic cars

[8bit]

Anyone here have a classic car they admire from the old days? I have always liked the Boss Mustang, and there was that cool Shelby Mustang in Gone in 60 Seconds. 8)

http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/concept/71boss302/

http://www.er3.com/firebird/

http://www3.sympatico.ca/f.bevil/My1970Swinger340.html

[KimVette]

It depends. I consider my 1991 ZR-1 Corvette to be a classic already, and also my 1975 L-48 Corvette (as wimpy as that engine may be).

[8bit]

The C3 Vette is a classic, no doubt. 8)

http://ncarboni.home.att.net/NC82.html

It has the looks that get you noticed on the road :!: :devilboy:

[KimVette]

The C3 Vette is a classic, no doubt. 8)

http://ncarboni.home.att.net/NC82.html

It has the looks that get you noticed on the road :!: :devilboy:

Very nice setup, Noel! What ratios do you have in that Richmond? Is it dual overdrive (5 and 6) or is just 6th an overdrive?

For my C3, I've long pondered taking the spare ZF I have in storage at the Vette Doctors, getting it rebuilt by Kurt White (if you ever need a Corvette transmission rebuilt, Kurt White should be your choice. Everyone whom I've let drive my ZR-1 {believe me, that list is SHORT but some of the big dogs in the automotive racing world and have driven my car} has commented on how smooth and positive the shifting is on that transmission. It's all thanks to Kurt White, who tells me he did a stock rebuild but I believe he beefed it up because it shifts better than any other ZR-1 or other ZF-equipped Corvette I've driven. Unfortunately my ZR-1 has been grounded this summer due to an idling problem - seems like it needs the fuel pump assembly, which is no small job so the car is going to sit until I can get it down to Long Island. :(

Anyway, I've pondered a ZF in my L-48, mated to either an LS1 or LT5 engine (just like my ZR-1) or to a big block and a holly projection system, but all that takes money. In the meantime my modified L-48 with its (relatively) anemic engine is sitting in storage, so I have plenty of time to decide which way to go on the drivetrain. One thing though; if I do go that wild on the drivetrain and make it perform like a ZR-1 on the top end, if I actually drive at those speeds (e.g., out west if it ever becomes legal again - legal extended 185mph+ runs are FUN, or if I ever participate in a sanctioned ORR) lots of aerodynamic work needs to be done. The Stingray body creates a LOT of lift, getting light at 140mph, unstable at 160 and above, and some models actually becoming airborne at 174mph. That's why the L-88 and ZL-1 both featured air dams - to force the air around the car rather than underneath. Most (C3) Stingrays you see converted to 8-second and lower drag cars feature lots of front end body modifications to keep air from getting pushed under the car.

I don't drive my car fast any more. I used to go well over 160mph on a VERY regular basis (once made it from Waltham to Warwick in a half hour) but I got caught once (clocked at 149mph after hitting the brakes), given a stern lecture and verbal warning (GRACE OF GOD there!) and aside from long trips, I haven't gone more than 10mph over the limit (generally still slower than other traffice on Rte 3) and have not been to triple-digit speeds, as the driver, even once time since then. I have a clean driving record and getting pulled over that one time and being told what the fine could be was a good wake-up call, so I intend to keep my clean driving record.

[8bit]

The old Doug Nash 5 speeder was direct 1 to 1 in 5th, the Richmond has only one overdrive ratio, 0.76 in top.
The 1973-80 L82 & 4 speed go quite well together, that might work well in your 1975 without great expense. :)

[KimVette]

Well my car (the L-48, and it's a 1976 BTW, pardon the slip in my previous post) has a slushbox - when I was looking at C3s I was looking for one to modify. Not wanting to mod a pristine car, I looked at ones in need of restoration. All the ones with manuals were in either crappy shape or the A/C has been yanked. Since it's going to cost a lot to upgrade it to a manual, I'd look at the ZF since it's stronger than a Muncie in stock form, and when Kurt White beefs them up, he builds them to handle 800hp, which is 150 more than I'd get the LT5 or LS1 up to (I'm looking to balance streetability and performance. I've been in LPE-prepped ZR-1s and Vette Doctor-prepped ZR-1s that are capable of over 200mph, as a passenger, and those cars are pussycats in city traffic). I want the dual overdrive because I am into top-end performance, and intend to build the car up as a top-end car in the (vain?) hope that unlimited speed becomes legal out west again.

When I bought the C3 I took out the front end (it was optioned with the Gymkhana suspension, which while an incredible setup at the time, is far outdated by today's stamdards), upgrade that to a dual-mount transverse leaf suspension (set to 750lb/in deflection - that car rides STIFF and I could corner at extremely high speeds!:D) kept the aftermarket composite rear leaf that a previous owner had already installed (I plan to upgrade that to a dual-mount composite leaf later) because to upgrade the rear to dual-mount would require a new rear end (pumpkin) cover, since although the stock dana differential is extremely strong, the stock cover is VERY weak and would not hold up to a significant spring upgrade. Although I don't have the funds right now, I intend to spare no expense in continuing to build my C3 up when I can afford to. As far as Corvettes go, the L48 is a sleeper since Corvettes of that era were dogs.

BTW for your car you might want to consider a steeper overdrive ratio. With the torque and power curve you have you don't need the close ratios, so go with a low axle ratio and two overdrives - you will be pleasantly to find your highway and top end acceleration will vastly improve AND your fuel economy will be comparable or superior to current V8 automobiles on the market. Until EPROM upgrades and ECM mods (extremely aggressive timing and fuel curves) I used to AVERAGE 27.5mpg or so in my ZR-1 - combined. After the mods I averaged 23mpg - combined.

[8bit]

The Borg Warner T56 6 speeder (successor to the 1980s T5) has two overdrive ratios, 0.80 & 0.62 I believe, but I don't know about it coping with super high power outputs. :?
Speaking of overdrives remember the 4+3 overdrive box of the early C4 era? That was interesting. :) Fun to play with that special 4 speed, but they only had 205 horses (L83 TBI 350) behind it at first.

[KimVette]

Speaking of overdrives remember the 4+3 overdrive box of the early C4 era? That was interesting. :) Fun to play with that special 4 speed, but they only had 205 horses (L83 TBI 350) behind it at first.

It was notoriously weak. The overdrive unit was basically an automatic transmission mated to a 4-speed manual transmission (and yes, overdrive was actually available in first, but why would you want to use it in first?). When GM decided to partner (excuse me, BUY Lotus) with Lotus to design the LT5 engine, they determined that the 4+3 couldn't handle the power, especially on the top end, so they contracted with ZF to supply a four speed with TWO overdrives - one conventional fifth gear and one extremely steep sixth gear.

The funny thing is, even though the engine is turning under 1500rpm at 70mph, it feels like the car could use a deeper overdrive. It'd kill sixth gear acceleration (I'd have to downshift to sixth or fifth to pass at 55mph-65mph, heaven forbid) but I imagine it'd provide even more economy. :)

[8bit]

The 4+3 style overdrive gearbox was how overdrive gearboxes used to be before the mid 70s. You would find them alot on the English sportscars. There would be a flip switch on the top of the shifter and the add on overdrive unit would allow you to engage overdrive on the various forward ratios. The thought in those days was to give the driver the choice of many ratios. This was to increase the sporty feel, also for timed hill climbing events, it was only partially to reduce fuel consumption and engine noise when cruising. Then after the fuel crisis overdrive became like the 5 speed boxes we know well, with 5th an extra tall gear.
I quite like the mid 70s C3 and early C4, at least it allows someone to buy a Vette for a modest outlay. For newcomers unable to stretch to the King of The Hill ZR-1. :)

[KimVette]

British sportscars (aside from the Lotus Espirit) have never been known for having enough power to get out of their own way, let alone blow a transmission. :D;)

[8bit]

Owners of Triumph TRs, MGs used to go through gearboxes, but I don't think that was related to horsepower. :wink: Actually, there were a couple of tries made to give the MGB some power, there was the MGC which was the MGB with the 3 liter I6 from the Austin Healey. Then there was the 1972-76 MGB GT V8, which used the 3.5 liter aluminum V8 GM sold to Rover at the end of the 1960s, same engine used in the Truimph TR8, Land Rover Discovery. The MGB GT V8 did 0-60 in 7.1 seconds but due to the fuel crisis and slow sales it wasn't sold in America. :(
One problem with the two overdrive ratios in the BW T56 is that they are good for economy, but the LS1 5.7 doesn't have as much low down torque as the LT1, and you have to change down on slight gradients because 6th is so tall.
Pontiac's V8s always used to be known for good torque.

http://www.geocities.com/wrenchplus/73xtra.html

http://www.sd455.com/transam.htm