PalmOne Releases Tungsten T5

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-t5/">http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-t5/</a><br /><br />PalmOne has released the latest version of their flagship PDA, the Tungsten T5. The first thing you'll notice about it is it is a fixed size rather than having the sliding base that extended the screen from a 320X320 to 320X480 screen.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2004/20041004-t5.jpg" /><br /><br />Some of the key features that may be of interest to Pocket PC users:<br /><br />• It is priced at $399. For comparison, this is in the same range as the iPAQ 4000 line and the 624Mhz Axim X30.<br />• It comes with 256MB of memory (215MB user accessible), though it isn't as simple as that. 55MB is in the same PalmOS configuration that they have always had, meaning it is not a file system but a database and only certain files can be placed there. The remaining 160MB can be used as an external storage card. The 55MB of RAM won't be wiped out if the T5 loses all battery power either. The RAM will hold its memory until the T5 is plugged in and recharged.<br />• It can act as an external USB flash drive for your PC. This is pretty cool and something that <i>all</i> PDAs should be able to do. Microsoft, are you listening? <br />• The universal connector is gone. This is a blow to users with existing Tungsten accessories, but a fact of life in the world of PDAs. Manufacturers make too much money off of peripherals not to use this tactic of getting users to repurchase items like external keyboards and spare cradles. :| <br />• Bluetooth is standard but there is no WiFi radio.<br />• It includes an SDIO/MMC slot, a 416Mhz processor and a screen capable of 64K colors.<br />• <b>Update:</b> Even though this product won't be ready to ship until November, it still won't have the new Cobalt (OS 6.1) OS from PalmSource that was released on September 28, 2004. No word on upgradability. It comes with OS 5.4.<br /><br />Ahhh yes.... I recall when we were told we didn't need more than 16MB of RAM, storage cards were complex and unnecessary, no one supposedly wanted to work with MS Office files on that tiny screen, and all of those Pocket PC OEMs were just loading up their hardware with battery draining features, features that today are considered mandatory for any serious player. :wink: Brighthand has <a href="http://www.brighthand.com/article/palmOne_Announces_Tungsten_T5">written a more complete preview</a> at their site.

[dean_shan]

It comes with 256MB of memory (215MB user accessible).

Impressive. I want that much internal in my machine. I can't believe I'm jealous of a Palm device.

[serpico]

Looks like the Tungsten|E with more horsepower. I still love my iPaq 4150 and still glad I left the Palm camp. :D No WIFI ??? That's odd, if this is the top model from them. And no Cobalt ? Ridiculous.

[Maced]

What does this have to do with the pocket pc community? Down with palm!

Sure, palm may have made users happy with a load of ram ... but answer this, palm... What're they gonna use it for... not like palms can handle movies and multi tasking while playing MP3s

[Felix Torres]

Dunno but the extra memory is just the equivalent of a non-removable flash card, no?
So, other than the PDA presenting itself as a flash drive to PCs without the sync drivers, there really isn't anything there.

Last time I looked, 256 MB thumbdrives and SD cards were in the $25 range. And I just saw a 1GB CF card for under $60. So, I can't really say that 192 Mb of added flash storage really rings my bell.

All this does is confirm that Flash RAM is getting dirt cheap, which I already knew. ;-)

Now, a cheap VGA screen-PDA, *that* I'd sit up and take notice...

[Felix Torres]

What does this have to do with the pocket pc community? Down with palm!

Sure, palm may have made users happy with a load of ram ... but answer this, palm... What're they gonna use it for... not like palms can handle movies and multi tasking while playing MP3s

Come on, its important to see how the other half dies.
How else are you going to feel important if you don't have somebody to sneer at? :twisted:

(Yes, that was tongue-in-cheek, for the humor impaired.) 8)

[rzanology]

palm bashing!!! I LOVE IT!!! After this can we go apple bashing too? Lets not let our friends at the multi colored fruit labs feel left out.

[RobPPC]

What does this have to do with the pocket pc community? Down with palm!

Sure, palm may have made users happy with a load of ram ... but answer this, palm... What're they gonna use it for... not like palms can handle movies and multi tasking while playing MP3s

I know you are probably talking about the downward direction Palm seems to be going, but you do know that you can do both; watch movies (MPG,DIVX, etc.) and listen to MP3/OGG/WMA in the background on a Palm, right?

[regas]

• It is priced at $399. For comparison, this is in the same range as the iPAQ 4000 line and the 624Mhz Axim X30.

Palm OS hardware scales processor speeds as needed. I've noted in the PPC's I've tested that it generally just drops to 200MHz until Media Player is run. Battery life on my Tungsten T3 has been phenomenal compared to the Axim X30. Fair enough, I tend to use Wi-Fi on the X30 far more often than on the T3.

• It comes with 256MB of memory (215MB user accessible), though it isn't as simple as that. 55MB is in the same PalmOS configuration that they have always had, meaning it is not a file system but a database and only certain files can be placed there. The remaining 160MB can be used as an external storage card. The 55MB of RAM won't be wiped out if the T5 loses all battery power either. The RAM will hold its memory until the T5 is plugged in and recharged.

This is a Palm myth. In the old days, yes, dead batteries meant a wiped PalmPilot, but its been a while since that was true. I've left Tungsten T, T3, and E as well as Zire 71 and 72 devices for dead for up to a week before they dump RAM. Power management has been vastly improved to retain a small charge enough to hold data in volatile RAM.

You've also got that backwards. The 55MBs of RAM is application RAM, just like the RAM in older Palm devices. The 160MBs of Flash RAM is both non-volatile and desktop mountable. So, its the 160MBs that won't be lost. True, programs stored in the Flash RAM or on a storage card will need to be copied to the 55MBs RAM to run, but the process is automatic and seamless these days. Palm OS 6.x will change this.

• The universal connector is gone. This is a blow to users with existing Tungsten accessories, but a fact of life in the world of PDAs. Manufacturers make too much money off of peripherals not to use this tactic of getting users to repurchase items like external keyboards and spare cradles. :|

There are so few useful Universal Connector peripherals that this isn't important. Sleds are very uncommon. In fact, there are few peripherals for Tungsten devices overall.

Just wanted to point out a few flaws in your post :)

[CrashX]

RobPPC beat me to the punch, but I'm going to leave this here anyway.

... not like palms can handle movies and multi tasking while playing MP3s
Actually, they can. I'm a Palm OS user normally, but have been lurking here for the last couple of months in preparation for buying my first PPC, hopefully a VGA device.

Anyway, I currently have a Palm OS device and I'm able to watch movies without issue. I have the Matrix Trilogy on it at the moment. As for music, I don't typically use it to play my MP3s (that's what my iPod is for) but have done so in the past. I'm able to listen to MP3s and continue working in other applications. So, multi-tasking, although not perfect, does work.

[Ed Hansberry]

• It comes with 256MB of memory (215MB user accessible), though it isn't as simple as that. 55MB is in the same PalmOS configuration that they have always had, meaning it is not a file system but a database and only certain files can be placed there. The remaining 160MB can be used as an external storage card. The 55MB of RAM won't be wiped out if the T5 loses all battery power either. The RAM will hold its memory until the T5 is plugged in and recharged.

This is a Palm myth. In the old days, yes, dead batteries meant a wiped PalmPilot, but its been a while since that was true. I've left Tungsten T, T3, and E as well as Zire 71 and 72 devices for dead for up to a week before they dump RAM. Power management has been vastly improved to retain a small charge enough to hold data in volatile RAM.
Totally different. The T5 could theoretically be left uncharged for years and still not lose its memory. It is a new flash memory that isn't volatile.

As for your comments on the universal connector, that is of little comfort to someone with an extra cradle, charger cable or external keyboard.

[RobPPC]

Just wanted to point out a few flaws in your post :)

You know better than to point out flaws in Ed's posts, surely he will smite you down for your ignorance about Palm based systems! (even if you own one and he does not) :D

[madmaxmedia]

Well, as we all know:

1. Palms can't do multimedia or video or any sort of multitasking.
2. PocketPC's crash every 5 minutes and need to be reset constantly.

Anyways, this new Palm pretty much sucks the big one IMO. It's really more of a TE2 since it's built out of the same materials (plastic.) It doesn't have Wifi, doesn't have OS 6, doesn't even have a VOICE RECORDER...and it costs $400.

Palm is apparently putting ALL of their eggs in the Treo basket. Good thing they actually bought Handspring a few months ago, otherwise they would have absolutely nothing now.

First PDA maker to market with a nice, compact clamshell Wifi PDA that has a CPU above 123 Mhz gets my money... :) At this point I don't really care what platform it's on, there are personal plusses and minuses for me either way.

[Jonathan1]

Down with palm!


OK. I have to comment on this. WTH is with people needing to totally kill the competition. Who cares? Every person who is enjoying their Pocket PC should get down on their hands and knees and thank Palm for driving what little forward momentum Microsoft implements with the Pocket PC OS. You can bet your paycheck that some of the things implemented in PPC 2003 wouldn't be here if Palm wasn't here. And you can bet your yearly salary the minute Palm goes under real development of the Pocket PC will ground to a screeching halt. So before you rain on Palm’s parade think about what they have done to get you the device you have today and think of how much worse off it could be without at least a little poking from Palm in Microsoft’s side.


As for the device. I was reading Palm infocenter and they are wholly unimpressed with this device for several reasons all of which are legit. This could be a serious hit for Palm. They have to be thanking god that Dell is not a brick and mortar company. If they sold their wares via retail store Palm would be screwed. As it stands HP is going to offer an challenge but not nearly what Dell could offer if they brought out their X50 retail.

Honestly the people at Palm are heading into Apple niche market territory. If they don’t do something NOW to stop the bleeding they are going to be kept standing by a crutch of Palm zealots who would rather cut off their hand then go PPC. That’s the future for Palm if they don’t do something NOW.
These devices are cool but where is Cobalt?

[Jonathan1]

Well, as we all know:

2. PocketPC's crash every 5 minutes and need to be reset constantly.

Hmmm yah. I don't have to keep the clock on the Pocket PC accurate at all since it can keep time with the BSODing of my PPC. :roll:

I think its been about 6 months since I last soft reset my Jornada.

[William]

The RAM will hold its memory until the T5 is plugged in and recharged.
And then it gets wiped out? :lol:

[badbob001]

I can see the Palm ads now:

T5 vs Hx4700

T5: 256MB memory Hx4700: 192MB memory

Palm wins! :)

To the common folk, more is better! Notice that I used the term "memory" and not RAM. C'Mon Dell, give us 256MB "memory" too.

[Spiral]

Palm OS hardware scales processor speeds as needed. I've noted in the PPC's I've tested that it generally just drops to 200MHz until Media Player is run. Battery life on my Tungsten T3 has been phenomenal compared to the Axim X30. Fair enough, I tend to use Wi-Fi on the X30 far more often than on the T3.
From my usage of a Tungsten C, Tungsten T, Asus A620, and of course the Tungsten T3, the T3 has the worse battery life, that's with low backlight and bt off. All the OS's scale processor speed too.

I don't really get why people are so annoyed with 64 megabytes of RAM. The card integrates so well, the X50v has 196 mb of memory total, I'm not sure how much is usable though.

I think it's a bit cheap of PalmOne to cut a cradle, voice recorder, and metal case for a mainly battery/software/flash upgrade. The form factor doesn't looks stylish to me.

[arnage2]

This is a huge mistake made by palmone.

Heres what it lacks:
1. VGA (been on ppc for like a year)
2. Palm os 6 (cobalt) or palm os 6.1
3. usb host (been on toshiba e740 and others for years)
4. usb 1.2 (on toshiba e830 and afew others)
5. WIFI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (c'mon, almost EVERYTHING ELSE has it)
6. 272,000 color screen (new technology, should be used)
7. a more respectable pxa270 running at 520-624mhz. (been used on Dell's X30 since june)

This is an even worse mistake than the ipaq 1700.

[hvlien]

This is an even worse mistake than the ipaq 1700.

A great statement. All they did was slap a T|T5 on what was really a T|E2. Utterly disappointing. A lot of people will probably make the jump to the Pocket PC camp now too, judging by the comments on Palm Infocenter. The Axim X50 does look like a nice devoce. I might just have to pick that up now to replace my iPAQ that I haven't used in ages.

[mangochutneyman]

This pda is a friggin disgrace. As an admittedly hardcore palm fanboy, I am absolutely pissed off right now. WTF is PalmOne thinking? Let's see:

no wifi
no voice recorder
no Cobalt
no PUC
$400

And all this in crappy plastic casing of cheapo TE?!?! :evil: :evil:

This is sooo pathetic I that I feel like I no longer want to root for PalmOne anymore. This is a totaly betrayal to all those who've waited months for a new device. DAMN YOU PALMONE!! DAMN YOU, DAMN YOU, DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry:

My only hope is that they don't royally screw up the Treo like they have now done with the Tungsten line... In the meantime, I guess my next pda will be a ppc afterall...the X50v looks pretty nice now...

[tthiel]

I'm one of those people who switch back and forth between Palm and Pocket PC and have since the beginning of both with the Palm Personal and the Casio E-10. I have never seen such a lame new version from Palm and I have never seen so many furious Palm users. The 256 MB of ram is an attempt to give this Palm some form of desperate credibility but noone cares. Getting rid of the Universal connector to gouge existing Palm users is a bad idea when we have alternatives to this ripoff. Many PDA users want a VGA screen and W-ifi and this delivers neither. My next PDA is likely to be a Dell X50. Smart move Palm.

[tthiel]

Absolutely right. But it looks like thats where we are heading.

Big differences between Palm and Apple. Macs offer huge advantages in security, stability and usability. Whole market sectors such as the film and music industries standardize on Macs and the scientific research community has committed to Macs in large numbers. Very experienced IT guys (like me) prefer Macs at home. Palm offers no such advantages or market sectors compared to Pocket PC.

Down with palm!
So before you rain on Palm’s parade think about what they have done to get you the device you have today and think of how much worse off it could be without at least a little poking from Palm in Microsoft’s side.

Honestly the people are Palm are heading into Apple niche market territory.

[whydidnt]

You've also got that backwards. The 55MBs of RAM is application RAM, just like the RAM in older Palm devices. The 160MBs of Flash RAM is both non-volatile and desktop mountable. So, its the 160MBs that won't be lost. True, programs stored in the Flash RAM or on a storage card will need to be copied to the 55MBs RAM to run, but the process is automatic and seamless these days. Palm OS 6.x will change this.


As a regular Palm user you have the point about Flsah RAM being automatic and Seamless wrong. Have you ever tried to run and sync Vindigo from/to your Flash RAM? I have several other programs that won't function properly when executed from Flash. This is and has been one of PALM's biggest flaws for the last several years. OS6 is supposed to fix this and a myriad of other annoyances...no multi-tasking (though it's debateable if it fixes that), limited categories, etc. We were told OS6 didn't have an upgraded user interface because they worked so hard to make all these enhancements.

I'm only left to guess that there are issues with POS6 and hardware vendors are having a hard time getting it to work properly. PalmOne must have decided it was better to release something, anything, right now, then to release nothing at all. There's very little here to like compared to the T3 that has been out for the last year.

If this device had included WiFi, a Voice Recorder, POS6 and the rest of it's current specs we may have had a winner. I could live with 360 x 480 resolution, since you get to see as much on the screen as M$ looney VGA implementation at that res anyway.

I sure wish PALM would push the envelope more. I don' think M$ will continue to innovate in this space if they aren't pushed by competition, there's just not enough profit to be made.

[powerbook17]

the device is a nice improvement but te somftwar eis still crappy

[thenikjones]

Why would anyone get this over the T|3? The price of SD cards is pretty low.

[webagogue]

To all of you in the "P@lm iz da s0xx0rs" group, do you realize that if Palm goes away we have almost no chance of getting ActiveSync fixed?

Once MS gets comfortable in a market, they have less incentive to innovate. This isn't true for their cash cows, Windows and Office, but do you think BillG wants to put thought and resources into a platform that he doesn't use?

Take IE as an example. No innovation for years. Mozilla/Firefox gains a tiny market share and MS starts making announcements that they are committed to updates in IE. Yeah, we haven't seen anything yet, but at least they're thinking about it.

[beq]

• It can act as an external USB flash drive for your PC. This is pretty cool and something that all PDAs should be able to do. Microsoft, are you listening?
Yes! This is exactly what I've been wanting. Why must ActiveSync be installed on the PC just to be able to access the PPC's storage areas (where the interface is slow and cumbersome)? Built-in USB mass storage generic driver has been around for a loong time.

How does this connect to the PC, does it have a mini USB port, or perhaps even a built-in short USB cable? USB2 high-speed interface? Does it show each of the Palm's storage areas (ram, flash rom user area, any mounted flash cards) as a separate drive letter on the PC?

[webagogue]

Palm offers no such advantages or market sectors compared to Pocket PC.

How many people have ever called your PPC a Palm Pilot? And the reverse?

The biggest advantage that Palm offers is ubiquity. When companies think sync, they think Palm compatibility first and everything else second.

The current round of Palm devices (okay, the last several rounds) may not be able to compete with PPC on technological grounds, but there are many more options available to normal, everyday end-users in terms of accessories and sync-ability.

[Prevost]

This is a huge mistake made by palmone.

Heres what it lacks:
1. VGA (been on ppc for like a year)
2. Palm os 6 (cobalt) or palm os 6.1
3. usb host (been on toshiba e740 and others for years)
4. usb 1.2 (on toshiba e830 and afew others)
5. WIFI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (c'mon, almost EVERYTHING ELSE has it)
6. 272,000 color screen (new technology, should be used)
7. a more respectable pxa270 running at 520-624mhz. (been used on Dell's X30 since june)

This is an even worse mistake than the ipaq 1700.
8. A voice recorder.

[Prevost]

As for the device. I was reading Palm infocenter and they are wholly unimpressed with this device for several reasons all of which are legit.
...
Honestly the people are Palm are heading into Apple niche market territory. If they don’t do something NOW to stop the bleeding they are going to be kept standing by a crutch of Palm zealots who would rather cut off their hand then go PPC. That’s the future for Palm if they don’t do something NOW.
These devices are cool but where is Cobalt?
As a Palm user, I tell you, you can really believe we've been waiting for the whole past year for a Palm running Cobalt!!! And, not all of us will continue waiting till we could be (unnecessarily) considered Palm zealots who would rather cut off our hand than go PPC.

And, most of us do not think this device is cool at all.

[Prevost]

To all of you in the "P@lm iz da s0xx0rs" group, do you realize that if Palm goes away we have almost no chance of getting ActiveSync fixed?
Now I feel like never before the need to learn, what are the REAL issues with ActiveSync?

Not syncing at all? How frequently happening? I have found myself unable to Hotsync sometimes, too.
Unresolved items? What is this? I've been receiving messages after every Hotsync since no less than 6 months telling me stupid things like "Hotsync has detected a change in the kind or number of expansion card slots". Like should there were Palms with something apart from SD's, or Palms with more than 1 slot.

Come on guys, let me know, let me know. I want to get convinced. I want to UPGRADE.

[Zack Mahdavi]

I personally find this device very disappointing. I was hoping I could buy a Cobalt device soon to play around with it. Don't get me wrong, I love my Pocket PC, but I also love Palms too. I think they're great for most people, while a Pocket PC is ideal for a technophile like me.

Unfortunately, this is the device I wasn't looking for. I don't understand why Palm won't spend the extra $10 to pack WiFi into their Tungestens!!?!? It would seriously boost their sales. I'm a student at UT where there is WiFi campus wide. I couldn't live without WiFi on my Pocket PC anymore.

I will not be purchasing a new Palm device until PalmOne gets their act together and builds a dual-wireless device. Till then, I'll stick with my new-found comfort zone, the Pocket PC.

[nuka_t]

To all of you in the "P@lm iz da s0xx0rs" group, do you realize that if Palm goes away we have almost no chance of getting ActiveSync fixed?

Once MS gets comfortable in a market, they have less incentive to innovate. This isn't true for their cash cows, Windows and Office, but do you think BillG wants to put thought and resources into a platform that he doesn't use?

Take IE as an example. No innovation for years. Mozilla/Firefox gains a tiny market share and MS starts making announcements that they are committed to updates in IE. Yeah, we haven't seen anything yet, but at least they're thinking about it.

its called linux.

and its coming to a pocketpc near you. xandros is making a linux distro for the pocket pc and it looks GOOD. if you have stability, tons of free opensource programs and the general power of linux, i think that companies like hp will ditch MS in favour of xandros.

palm sucks, id rather have a lowend axim x30 than this. i dont need bluetooth anyway and its less than half the price, and its been released for months.

as for palm becoming like apple, i think it wont. pocket pc is too good for that to happen, they will just rot.

[Ed Hansberry]

its called linux.

and its coming to a pocketpc near you. xandros is making a linux distro for the pocket pc and it looks GOOD. if you have stability, tons of free opensource programs and the general power of linux, i think that companies like hp will ditch MS in favour of xandros.
I personally don't care if Linux does or doesn't come to a Pocket PC, but I've been seeing this off and on since the first wave of Pocket PCs in the iPAQ 3600 series. When it is sold in retail, I'll believe it. Until then, it is just a bunch of programmers and linux geeks hacking around.

[nuka_t]

but this one is targetted at the average user, is for-pay, comes with support etc.

its lycoris, not xandros, sorry.

here is a quote from the guy

Please tell me more about your new OS, the PocketPC Edition of Desktop/LX?[/b] [i]Oh it's really cool. It's based on OpenZaurus and Opie, two stellar products from the Open Source community. We intend to add some more eye candy, spit and polish, and create a mobile Linux platform that we think corporate America and the world will like.

info
http://www.lycoris.com/products/pocketpc/

screenies
http://www.lycoris.com/products/pocketpc/screenshots.php

[webagogue]

its called linux.

and its coming to a pocketpc near you. xandros is making a linux distro for the pocket pc and it looks GOOD. if you have stability, tons of free opensource programs and the general power of linux, i think that companies like hp will ditch MS in favour of xandros.

Lycoris supposedly has one coming out soon as well (was supposed to be Q2 '04, and now Q3 '04 and I'm still waiting). I'm optimistic, but I'm also realistic. There are few desktop distros of linux that are getting over their Kludgeiness (capital K intentional). I can't see linux making leaps and bounds on handhelds - especially when it is so disappointing today.

I want to like linux on PDAs but the user experience isn't as mature as PPC or Palm OS.

[nuka_t]

i think the biggest roadblock to linux adoption on the handheld is the winteldell relationship. dell has never released anything that dosent both run some form of windows and uses an intel processor. they also dont give specifications for their handhelds so getting linux on it aftermarket is very hard.

[ppcsurfr]

The use of non-volatile memory for Mobile Devices isn't new.

Pocket PCs have had it for a while... although not that large... and not 100% used as main memory...

But Windows powered Smartphones have relied so much on non-volatile memory for data storage.

So bottomline... The whole 160MB non-volatile memory used on the T5 is simply an old idea.

Carlo

[webagogue]

i think the biggest roadblock to linux adoption on the handheld is the winteldell relationship. dell has never released anything that dosent both run some form of windows and uses an intel processor. they also dont give specifications for their handhelds so getting linux on it aftermarket is very hard.

Possibly, but I would say that the bigger reason is that the PIM apps on the PDA Linux platform absolutely blow. The interface is shiny and pretty, but the user experience is something only a linux zealot could love.

For hardcore functionality linux is it. For a pleasant user expereience, linux PDAs are lacking.

[nuka_t]

never tried, so wouldnt know.

but who uses their pda for PIM anyway? :?

[Jonathan1]

And, most of us do not think this device is cool at all.

Well lets be fair. The device itself isn't BAD. Just overpriced.

Add a new OS and drop it by $100 and it would sell. This device shouldn't be considered top of the line in any way shape or form though. It is a cool little device. Palm just made some serious mistakes along the way.

[Jonathan1]

The use of non-volatile memory for Mobile Devices isn't new.

Pocket PCs have had it for a while... although not that large... and not 100% used as main memory...

But Windows powered Smartphones have relied so much on non-volatile memory for data storage.

So bottomline... The whole 160MB non-volatile memory used on the T5 is simply an old idea.

Carlo


Yes and no. The idea that the 160MB of memory can be used like one big o' flash drive is new. No Pocket PC up til now can be just plugged into a computer and the computer will just see the storage card onboard the device. Pocket PC's requires additional drivers. This is the ONLY cool thing about this device IMHO. The problem with this idea is that Palm didn't think it through. A user to use this feature is going to have to lug around a cable where ever the go. To be ready for only the fly useage. This s stupid. What is even stupider is that the reason why these flash thumb drives are popular is they are dang small. In many cases small enough to put on a keyring. A PDA sized flash drive is just lame. Esp if you consider that 160MB isn't going to take you very far.

[ppcsurfr]

Yes and no. The idea that the 160MB of memory can be used like one big o' flash drive is new. No Pocket PC up til now can be just plugged into a computer and the computer will just see the storage card onboard the device. Pocket PC's requires additional drivers. This is the ONLY cool thing about this device IMHO. The problem with this idea is that Palm didn't think it through. A user to use this feature is going to have to lug around a cable where ever the go. To be ready for only the fly useage. This s stupid. What is even stupider is that the reason why these flash thumb drives are popular is they are dang small. In many cases small enough to put on a keyring. A PDA sized flash drive is just lame. Esp if you consider that 160MB isn't going to take you very far.

True... but I would think that if ever someone would come up with a utility to use the PPC's memory as a Mass Storage Device, I personally would still prefer having a PPC as a USB host rather than a USB Client.

With thumbdrives today being able to be used with some PPCs, I'd say I'd rather treat my PPC as what it is than just a thumb drive.

Carlo

[Jonathan1]

True... but I would think that if ever someone would come up with a utility to use the PPC's memory as a Mass Storage Device, I personally would still prefer having a PPC as a USB host rather than a USB Client.

With thumbdrives today being able to be used with some PPCs, I'd say I'd rather treat my PPC as what it is than just a thumb drive.

Carlo

And that's you. A recent poll from PPCT suggests the average person doesn't really care about hosting. At best they are indifferent. Quit frankly hosting is literally last on the things I want on my Pocket PC.

[Prevost]

And, most of us do not think this device is cool at all.

Well lets be fair. The device itself isn't BAD. Just overpriced.

Add a new OS and drop it by $100 and it would sell. This device shouldn't be considered top of the line in any way shape or form though. It is a cool little device. Palm just made some serious mistakes along the way.
I agree. And, just think, how much will they pretend to charge for a Cobalt-running Palm (if one of those is ever coming...) WITH the voice recorder? $500???

Although, after all, probably that device would be the closest to a PPC Palm has ever get (I talk about multitasking). But, why is it the case that it sounds SO DIFFERENT saying "I spent $500 in this Palm" than "I spent $500 in this PocketPC??? Probably keeping the physical form so boring accounts for some of it. Or, the hardware compromises they put into.

[juni]

I wonder how good this is:

http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-t5/photos/04.jpg

[Prevost]

I wonder how good this is:

http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-t5/photos/04.jpg
Do you mean the race for the White House??? :mrgreen: (I see it from the outside, like you)

[juni]

Nooo :bangin:

The blazer browser :P

[Fishie]

Well, as we all know:

2. PocketPC's crash every 5 minutes and need to be reset constantly.

Hmmm yah. I don't have to keep the clock on the Pocket PC accurate at all since it can keep time with the BSODing of my PPC. :roll:

I think its been about 6 months since I last soft reset my Jornada.

Seems like someone didnt get the joke.

[Fishie]

its called linux.

and its coming to a pocketpc near you. xandros is making a linux distro for the pocket pc and it looks GOOD. if you have stability, tons of free opensource programs and the general power of linux, i think that companies like hp will ditch MS in favour of xandros.

Lycoris supposedly has one coming out soon as well (was supposed to be Q2 '04, and now Q3 '04 and I'm still waiting). I'm optimistic, but I'm also realistic. There are few desktop distros of linux that are getting over their Kludgeiness (capital K intentional). I can't see linux making leaps and bounds on handhelds - especially when it is so disappointing today.

I want to like linux on PDAs but the user experience isn't as mature as PPC or Palm OS.

Yet the Zaurus kicks ass

[johncruise]

True... but I would think that if ever someone would come up with a utility to use the PPC's memory as a Mass Storage Device, I personally would still prefer having a PPC as a USB host rather than a USB Client.

With thumbdrives today being able to be used with some PPCs, I'd say I'd rather treat my PPC as what it is than just a thumb drive.

Carlo

And that's you. A recent poll from PPCT suggests the average person doesn't really care about hosting. At best they are indifferent. Quit frankly hosting is literally last on the things I want on my Pocket PC.

And that's you also :) . According to that same poll, only a 27% shares your thought.

[ppcsurfr]

And that's you. A recent poll from PPCT suggests the average person doesn't really care about hosting. At best they are indifferent. Quit frankly hosting is literally last on the things I want on my Pocket PC.

Oh... I think I share the thoughts of about 70+ percent of PPCThoughts readers... your 27% is way off...

The first 2 options are leaning towards having USB hosting capabilities...

I may prefer having USB host capabilties on my PPC but it won't stop me from getting one that doesn't... currently, I have one that supports it and one that doesn't. Does it hurt me? Not at all... :D

Well, bottom line is... as with my original reply... using non-volatile memory isn't groundbreaking... :wink:

Carlo

[Lucky Bob]

Maybe palmOne is purposely trying to destroy the PDA market just so that it can sell more Treo's...

Down with palm!OK. I have to comment on this. WTH is with people needing to totally kill the competition. Who cares? Every person who is enjoying their Pocket PC should get down on their hands and knees and thank Palm for driving what little forward momentum Microsoft implements with the Pocket PC OS. You can bet your paycheck that some of the things implemented in PPC 2003 wouldn't be here if Palm wasn't here. And you can bet your yearly salary the minute Palm goes under real development of the Pocket PC will ground to a screeching halt. So before you rain on Palm’s parade think about what they have done to get you the device you have today and think of how much worse off it could be without at least a little poking from Palm in Microsoft’s side.
If palmOne ever left the PDA business, the entire handheld industry would hurt in some way.

A great statement. All they did was slap a T|T5 on what was really a T|E2. Utterly disappointing. A lot of people will probably make the jump to the Pocket PC camp now too, judging by the comments on Palm Infocenter.
It really is sad. And you know what is even more pathetic? The reason palmOne gave for the T5 not having OS 6 was that development for the T5 started well before OS 6 was sent to developers (which was last December). So it took them a year to put out this? Wow.

Well, bottom line is... as with my original reply... using non-volatile memory isn't groundbreaking... :wink:
True, but it's the way they use it that's special. I'm surprised that palmOne was the first to use it like that, though...it's almost scary...

[Prevost]

Well, as we all know:

2. PocketPC's crash every 5 minutes and need to be reset constantly.

Hmmm yah. I don't have to keep the clock on the Pocket PC accurate at all since it can keep time with the BSODing of my PPC. :roll:

I think its been about 6 months since I last soft reset my Jornada.

Seems like someone didnt get the joke.
It's because he believed statement #1 of that post... :lol:

[mangochutneyman]

You can watch a video of Palm's regional manager, Stuart Maughan discussing the T5 in the following link:

http://broadband.ameinfo.com/ads/loadMovie.asp?vidID=1603&adID=152&title=Power%20in%20your%20Palm

[Ed Hansberry]

You can watch a video of Palm's regional manager, Stuart Maughan discussing the T5 in the following link:

http://broadband.ameinfo.com/ads/loadMovie.asp?vidID=1603&adID=152&title=Power%20in%20your%20PalmHe spends 30 seconds touting the flash drive and how you can copy a PowerPoint file and make changes to it, yet http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-t5/ says PPT files are not editable.

"Edit and create Word and Excel compatible documents and view your PowerPoint files with Documents To Go software. View PDFs with Adobe Reader after a simple conversion step."

He should get a clue about the products he is selling.

For some reason it makes mention of emailing Excel/Word files too but leaves PPT off. http://www.palmone.com/us/solutions/personal/docstogo/ - "Beam Word, Excel and PowerPoint files. Send and receive Word and Excel email attachments."

What is the problem with PPT files? Is this another one of those database things? Can you not email files from your storage card that can't be converted to these databases, things like MP3, PPT, ZIP and other files?

[mangochutneyman]

AFAIK, DTG7 support native support for PPT, Word Excel, text based-PDF, etc file types. I believe you can view/edit Word/Excel files while PPT files may have to be converted to SheetToGo if you want to edit them...however, I'm sure about that. All these files can be beamed, emailed etc...


Can you not email files from your storage card that can't be converted to these databases, things like MP3, PPT, ZIP and other files?

Yes you can already do this via email clients like Snappermail w/o the need for file extension managers...

[johncruise]

Hmmm... I need to see what value is putting an excel/word/ppt/pdf/etc document into your Palm with Palm acting as a mass storage device when you cannot view it on your Palm device because you have to convert it first?

[mangochutneyman]

Hmmm... I need to see what value is putting an excel/word/ppt/pdf/etc document into your Palm with Palm acting as a mass storage device when you cannot view it on your Palm device because you have to convert it first?

Well the point is with DTG7, you DON'T have to convert them. Thus you can transfer, beam, email directly to your palm...

[ppcsurfr]

Hmmm... I need to see what value is putting an excel/word/ppt/pdf/etc document into your Palm with Palm acting as a mass storage device when you cannot view it on your Palm device because you have to convert it first?

Well the point is with DTG7, you DON'T have to convert them. Thus you can transfer, beam, email directly to your palm...

Anything special with not converting them?

I can store files in my PPC or a flash drive or an SD card or a CF card without converting them too...

This is too simple to be special.

Carlo

[Vidge]

• The universal connector is gone. This is a blow to users with existing Tungsten accessories, but a fact of life in the world of PDAs. Manufacturers make too much money off of peripherals not to use this tactic of getting users to repurchase items like external keyboards and spare cradles. :|

There are so few useful Universal Connector peripherals that this isn't important. Sleds are very uncommon. In fact, there are few peripherals for Tungsten devices overall.


I have to disagree with this statement. I'm on my 10th Palm OS PDA in the last 8+ years, currently a T3 (also have a 4155) and I have quite a few UC peripherals. I have a keyboard, the Power to Go Sled, the Enfora Wifi Portfolio, a spare cradle, a sync-n-charge cable, a wall charger and an emergency charger - easily $300-$400 worth of accessories that will be rendered useless by this new TE2 (I can't bring myself to call it by its official name). And I don't think I'm alone. This is one of the reasons I won't be buying the TE2.

Since my initial purchase of the Pilot 5000 in May 1996, I have always looked forward to the new releases from Palm. I'm truly disappointed with this. As someone mentioned earlier, Palm needs to stay in the game in order to compel the PPC manufacturers to continue to innovate. Unfortunately, Palm needs somebody to push THEM to innovate - and Sony leaving the US PDA market means Palm doesn't have anybody to really do that.

I continue to struggle with my 4155 daily - the alarms problem makes it impossible for me to use it as my primary PDA. I can only hope this is not the end of Palm - and not just for my own sake, but for the sake of the entire PDA market.

{Attribution fixed. EdH.}

[twalk]

Just to chip in, it really does look like P1 moved every single one of their good people over to smartphones. The treo650 is looking to be the best smartphone by far, but the T5... (I just can't say it...)

[davea0511]

I'm confused about the whole memory scheme. 256 Mb with 215 "available" (so 41 Mb is occupied with who-knows-what), but 55Mb of the "available" 215Mb is the Palm file system, and it's nonvolatile?

I wish they'd just tell us how much System Memory there is; That's what affects your speed and ability to multitask. Is it part of the 256 Mb number? If so then not all of the 256 Mb is Flash, is it since System Memory is almost always DRAM (Flash isn't fast enough and has limited reads and writes... program looping would burn it up in no time at all).

Also, is the 55 Mb really just DRAM that gets shadowed in the Flash when the PDA is powered down in order to simulate non-volatility (I've been trying to champion this technique on the PPC for years but nobody will listen)? And what's with the "unavailable" 41Mb of memory (only 215MB is "available") - is it Flash that is reserved for the OS and critical system files?

I wish manufacturers would just say it has X amount of System Ram for speed and multitasking purposes, Y amount of User Program Storage (Flash), and Z amount of reserved flash the OS or for shadowing the System RAM. Why they have to convolute it is beyond me.

[bvkeen]

You can watch a video of Palm's regional manager, Stuart Maughan discussing the T5 in the following link:

http://broadband.ameinfo.com/ads/loadMovie.asp?vidID=1603&adID=152&title=Power%20in%20your%20PalmHe spends 30 seconds touting the flash drive and how you can copy a PowerPoint file and make changes to it, yet http://www.palmone.com/us/products/handhelds/tungsten-t5/ says PPT files are not editable.

"Edit and create Word and Excel compatible documents and view your PowerPoint files with Documents To Go software. View PDFs with Adobe Reader after a simple conversion step."

He should get a clue about the products he is selling.

For some reason it makes mention of emailing Excel/Word files too but leaves PPT off. http://www.palmone.com/us/solutions/personal/docstogo/ - "Beam Word, Excel and PowerPoint files. Send and receive Word and Excel email attachments."

What is the problem with PPT files? Is this another one of those database things? Can you not email files from your storage card that can't be converted to these databases, things like MP3, PPT, ZIP and other files?

Even Documents To Go version 6.0 supports editing of PowerPoint files.

I am a happy PPC user (just got my hx4700 last week), but I always keep a Palm around, too (T3). If my T3 had better battery life, I probably wouldn't have even gotten the hx4700, as I had become disgusted with the alarm problem on my e800. So far, my hx4700 has not missed an alarm, but I am keeping my T3 just in case.

I agree with the post much earlier which stated that the competition from Palm is the key thing that has gotten Microsoft to give any support at all to the Pocket PC platform. If Palm hadn't come out with the 320x480 screen a couple of years ago, Microsoft would still be sticking with 240x320. And, if you read the posts of WM2003SE owners, you'll find many, many complaints about how Microsoft does not support true VGA in WM2003SE.

I'd like to see more competition in this market, not less.

It does sound to me like Palm has made a mistake in T5, in that it should have offered much more than it does. But, I'm glad they are still in the game, and I hope they realize their mistake, correct it, and help us all by continuing to offer some competiton, because Microsoft will not do squat to improve PPCs unless market conditions force them into it.

[Gekko]

I now have a T5...My initial thoughts

http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24670&sid=b8e2991bdb65c080078e20763c935670

[Gekko]

I'm confused about the whole memory scheme. 256 Mb with 215 "available" (so 41 Mb is occupied with who-knows-what), but 55Mb of the "available" 215Mb is the Palm file system, and it's nonvolatile?

I wish they'd just tell us how much System Memory there is; That's what affects your speed and ability to multitask. Is it part of the 256 Mb number? If so then not all of the 256 Mb is Flash, is it since System Memory is almost always DRAM (Flash isn't fast enough and has limited reads and writes... program looping would burn it up in no time at all).

Also, is the 55 Mb really just DRAM that gets shadowed in the Flash when the PDA is powered down in order to simulate non-volatility (I've been trying to champion this technique on the PPC for years but nobody will listen)? And what's with the "unavailable" 41Mb of memory (only 215MB is "available") - is it Flash that is reserved for the OS and critical system files?

I wish manufacturers would just say it has X amount of System Ram for speed and multitasking purposes, Y amount of User Program Storage (Flash), and Z amount of reserved flash the OS or for shadowing the System RAM. Why they have to convolute it is beyond me.


Understanding the Performance of the Tungsten T5
Ben Combee
Sunday, 17 October 2004 9:11 PM

http://palmos.combee.net/blog/UnderstandingthePerforman.html