Do You Actually Use Landscape Support?

[Jason Dunn]

After reading about the work that developers are having to put into making their apps landscape compatible, I came to realize something: since starting to use the Axim X30 a few months back, I have not, even once, used landscape mode in a real-world scenario. I've tested it out, shown it to people, but I've never used it myself in day to day scenarios. Why? Two reasons I think:<br /><br /><b>Having to navigate away from what you're doing and do the six-tap procedure needed to switch orientation is cumbersome</b>. Why is it that Microsoft makes these critical features, such as changing screen orientation and shutting down applications, so difficult to do?<br /><br /><b>Landscape mode doesn't offer me any significant advantages.</b> Because the user interface on the Pocket PC is so large (toolbars, icons, text, etc.) switching to landscape mode feels like it actually reduces the amount of workspace I have on the Pocket PC. And because 320 pixels isn't much bigger than 240 pixels when it comes to viewing Web sites designed for 800 pixel-wide screens, I can't say that landscape enhances my Web viewing (the one-column view rocks for that!).<br /><br />Let's try a user survey below about landscape use. Here's the caveat on this survey: I only want to hear from people who are using their devices in 320 x 240 or 640 x 480 landscape mode. If you're running a resolution hack (SE_VGA or other) to give you true 640 x 480 resolution, you're of course going to find landscape mode useful. I'm interested in hearing from people who are using the devices with stock Microsoft landscape functionality, because I have a hunch most of you are like me: landscape sounded nice on paper, but in real life it's less than thrilling.

[entropy1980]

Having to navigate away from what you're doing and do the six-tap procedure needed to switch orientation is cumbersome. Why is it that Microsoft makes these critical features, such as changing screen orientation and shutting down applications, so difficult to do?


Can't you just assign a button to change to and from landscape? I almost positive you can on the X30....

[ShinyPlastic]

Can't you just assign a button to change to and from landscape? I almost positive you can on the X30....

Yep, on my X30 all I have to do is push the little button on the left of the device and it switches to/from landscape.

Only use it occasionally though, mainly for reading documents/viewing non-mobile web sites.

Mark......
shinyplastic.com and vgapocketpc.com

[manywhere]

Having to navigate away from what you're doing and do the six-tap procedure needed to switch orientation is cumbersome. Why is it that Microsoft makes these critical features, such as changing screen orientation and shutting down applications, so difficult to do?


Can't you just assign a button to change to and from landscape? I almost positive you can on the X30....
At least you can do that in the WM2003SE emulators, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could. However, I suspect that Jason has assigned all buttons to other tasks and would need a new set of buttons for changing to/from landscape mode... ;)

[jkendrick]

I have assigned rotation to a hardware button on my Toshiba e800 and use landscape a lot for web browsing and text entry with the Stowaway keyboard.

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/assets/common/FileObject/jpg.gif jk-0004.JPG (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/media/users/9109/jk-0004.JPG) (Size: 114.6 KB)

[DinarSoft]

Having to navigate away from what you're doing and do the six-tap procedure needed to switch orientation is cumbersome.
You have HandyMenu, why don't you use it for this ?
HandyMenu makes switching between modes only two taps away. (or even one tab if you select switching as your QuickAction)

[MikeUnwired]

On the hx4700, landscape toggle is pre-assigned to press and hold on the CALENDAR button.

I'm using it more and more since I installed SE_VGA. Interestingly, Jawbreaker renders in full screen QVGA mode even with SE_VGA enabled and the unit in landscape. Also, the CALCULATOR renders larger than expected with plentry of room between on-screen keys.

I like the landscape for web browsing and eBooks among other things as I can get more across the screen.

[alex_kac]

I use it for reading my hacked Pocket Bible as I prefer to read it in Landscape.

I also like it for web browsing. But those are the only two real times i use it. Of course, I enter Pocket Informant often when I'm in service (to enter events or notes from the bulletin) or web browsing so it has to work well in Landscape.

But it has made me wonder if developing a landscape SIP wouldn't be a bad idea too...the current SIPs use up too much space in Landscape mode except for Calligrapher.

[brianchris]

Having to navigate away from what you're doing and do the six-tap procedure needed to switch orientation is cumbersome. Why is it that Microsoft makes these critical features, such as changing screen orientation and shutting down applications, so difficult to do?


Two screen orientation shotcuts (to the left and to the right) are availible as Today screen icons with Pocket Plus. Makes things quite easy.

[Ed@Brighthand]

I use landscape mode all the time while web surfing. Jason is correct, and the toolbars etc. do take up a lot of screen real estate, but I use Spb Pocket Plus, which allows me to hide the toolbars.

I also prefer to read ebooks in landscape mode. I've tested and I can get marginally more text on the screen that way.

[rzanology]

hey jason....mail me some of those devices. I'll find a everyday use for you! :) I think the ppc layout is fine the way it is now. The only reason i would want to hold my ipaq the other way is when watching movies...and media player already does this. So anything else is extra. I guess it would be nice for surfing the web in IE as well.

[Palmguy]

As someone already mentioned the hx4700 comes factory with the Calendar button assigned to rotate the screen (press and hold). I've noticed it to be decently quicker than my x30 when switching as well.

I use landscape for web browsing occasionally, that's about it.

[Darren Behan]

Only time I ever use landscape is for playing video or games, otherwise, not at all.

db

[marcm]

I use landscape all the time when i'm browsing the web. The only time I don't is when I'm on mobile-based pages. I do use Reensoft PIEplus though, it makes the images all fit your screen so you never have to scroll sideways and it has full screen. I also use SPB Pocket Plus.

[jgrnt1]

With my new iPAQ 4700, I've been surprised at how much I have been using landscape mode. I use it for reading ebooks and for surfing. I never surfed the web with my 2215, but I find it's OK with the 4700. I used ctitanic's Tweak2k2 to narrow the scroll bars and fit a little more on the screen. I was at the doctor this morning and found they had an open wireless connection. I read some news, visited a couple of forums, posted some replies, and checked my home email while I was in the waiting room. I would never have done this with a QVGA device. I haven't even loaded SE_VGA, though I have used the hi res hack for individual programs, though only a couple that are not VGA aware, like MobiPocket, which is incredible in VGA.

[coder33404]

Yea I am offended that anyone would bring this up after some of us have waited for this feature for such a long time. I have used all the crappy screen rotation programs and have always wanted a workable solution. Now we have it and it's usefulness is questioned??? I hope Microsoft is not reading this thread. And yes now that I have a 4700 I use it all the time for viewing my company’s system instruction documents in .Pdf and Repligo formats. I also use it along with Multi IE for web browsing but find it useful in a lot of other applications like Excel and plan maker as well.

Sorry but I'm very passionate about this topic in particular since along with the 4" VGA screen it allows me to do some business related things that I have been needing to do with a PDA for a very long time.

We aren’t going to question the wisdom "or usefulness of VGA next are we?

[Dermot81]

There is an inherent problem in these polls.

There is no view results option.

I don't have a WM2003 SE device with the landscape capability, but I was forced to vote just so I could see the results of the poll :/

[mrkablooey]

You have HandyMenu, why don't you use it for this ?
HandyMenu makes switching between modes only two taps away. (or even one tab if you select switching as your QuickAction)

That's what I use.

That being said, I voted "rare/never". :wink:

[Jason Dunn]

Yea I am offended that anyone would bring this up after some of us have waited for this feature for such a long time.

Offended? That seems a bit mellodramatic...anyway, it's just a question, because I too really wanted landscape mode, but I never use it. From the stats, is seems like most people are in the same boat. It's not like Microsoft is going to REMOVE the feature though, so I wouldn't worry if I were you. ;-)

[Wiggster]

There is no view results option.


Just click the View Results link underneath the submit button. It IS there.

[Darius Wey]

I don't own a WM2003SE device but I have played around with it (and its landscape support) as well as programs that have given my WM2003 device landscape support (which wasn't overly fantastic due to WM2003's lack of accommodation for landscape orientation). I'd have to say it is nice and I certainly would use it, depending on the application, but I'd see the greatest benefits and "wow" factor in a VGA screen making use of a 640x480 display scheme. It would make browsing and word processing a lot nicer, in my opinion. :)

[coder33404]

Yea I am offended that anyone would bring this up after some of us have waited for this feature for such a long time.

Offended? That seems a bit mellodramatic...anyway, it's just a question, because I too really wanted landscape mode, but I never use it. From the stats, is seems like most people are in the same boat. It's not like Microsoft is going to REMOVE the feature though, so I wouldn't worry if I were you. ;-)

Melodramatic / Passionate, 6 0f 1 half dozen of the other I suppose but geese most of us haven’t seen landscape on the next generation machines. I would be willing to bet that the numbers would be quite a bit different if we were talking about only VGA units and we gave users a couple of months to play with it.

One other thing, "most" people never use it isnt exactly accurate based on the data now is it?

[zehubert]

How much of it is that the PDA is not designed to be used in landscape mode? Is the buttons use weird when it's being used in this mode?

What about a Pocket PC designed to be run in landscape mode, such as the Mio 188 (http://www.ubergizmo.com/2004/09/landscape-pocketpc-mio-188-with.html) ?

My dream landscape mode device would be one with an integrated/foldable QWERTY keyboard. something a bit smaller than the OQO. :mrgreen:

[Snail]

How much of it is that the PDA is not designed to be used in landscape mode? Is the buttons use weird when it's being used in this mode?

Amen. You don't have a choice with certain PDA's (like my UX50...), but I'd find it odd to go back to a portrait orientation now.

[Deslock]

I use landscape all the time. Unfortunately, the WM2003SE implementation is a mixed bag compared to Palm's (on the T3):
T3 has a dedicated on-screen button for it while you have to hold down a hardware button for a couple seconds with the hx4700. You could remap a button, but then you're just making something else take longer.
T3 switching is instantaneous while you have to wait a couple seconds with the hx4700 (that's after holding the hardware button for a couple seconds).
Many applications do not display properly in landscape mode (ie you can't see everything because the bottom gets cropped). This wasn't a problem with Palm (though in some case, older Palm apps couldn't take advantage of a larger screen).
There is a lot of wasted space due to the header and footer being so large (this can be solved by running SE_VGA, but it has disadvantages)
Input areas waste a lot of space (it'd be nice if you could move them off to the side).Still, it's nice to have a landscape option and with the exception of #3 and #4, the above aren't big deals. I hope more apps get rewritten to be used in landscape.

[Deslock]

While I'm bitching about WM2003SE landscape, let me add that its VGA implementation, frankly, sucks. After all the mocking of Palm's double-pixelating technique by some in the PPC camp, I was expecting something more flexible and powerful. Instead, Microsoft seems to have more-or-less copied Palm's approach.

With WM200SE VGA, most apps don't actually show more information. Gridlines in Exel are 2 pixels wide. Scroll bar borders are 2 pixels wide. When PIE renders, it increased the size of images and double-pixelates lines. The footer and header can't be resized.

All of that can be fixed by running SE_VGA, but then everything is freakin small (even after tweaking registry to increase fonts) and many apps don't display properly (including Transcriber). Another option is to run hacks that make PPC apps VGA-aware, but it breaks some apps and when it works it usually just makes fonts look better, which was the big gripe about Palm's method in the first place. How ironic.

While I'm ranting, all the web browsers for PPC blow big, fat, hairy oozing chunks. I wish Opera would release a PPC version already... or someone would get either Linux or PalmOS to run on the hx4700

[CoreyJF]

I use it a lot. Mostly for video or web browsing.

[coder33404]

While I'm bitching about WM2003SE landscape, let me add that its VGA implementation, frankly, sucks. After all the mocking of Palm's double-pixelating technique by some in the PPC camp, I was expecting something more flexible and powerful. Instead, Microsoft seems to have more-or-less copied Palm's approach.

With WM200SE VGA, most apps don't actually show more information. Gridlines in Exel are 2 pixels wide. Scroll bar borders are 2 pixels wide. When PIE renders, it increased the size of images and double-pixelates lines. The footer and header can't be resized.

All of that can be fixed by running SE_VGA, but then everything is freakin small (even after tweaking registry to increase fonts) and many apps don't display properly (including Transcriber). Another option is to run hacks that make PPC apps VGA-aware, but it breaks some apps and when it works it usually just makes fonts look better, which was the big gripe about Palm's method in the first place. How ironic.

While I'm ranting, all the web browsers for PPC blow big, fat, hairy oozing chunks. I wish Opera would release a PPC version already... or someone would get either Linux or PalmOS to run on the hx4700

Sounds like you and your T3 must be very happy together. :twisted:

*** post edited by moderator for language

[Kati Compton]

Let's try to keep it civil, OK folks?

[Vidge]

When I briefly owned a Dell X30, I used landscape all the time. I bought the hp4155 under the (misstaken) impression that WM2003SE would be released for that device. I use landscape on my T3 quite a bit so if I had it on my hp4155, I would use it. I find surfing and spreadsheets really nice in landscape.

[TMann]

While I'm bitching about WM2003SE landscape, let me add that its VGA implementation, frankly, sucks. After all the mocking of Palm's double-pixelating technique by some in the PPC camp, I was expecting something more flexible and powerful. Instead, Microsoft seems to have more-or-less copied Palm's approach.

With WM200SE VGA, most apps don't actually show more information. Gridlines in Exel are 2 pixels wide. Scroll bar borders are 2 pixels wide. When PIE renders, it increased the size of images and double-pixelates lines. The footer and header can't be resized.

All of that can be fixed by running SE_VGA, but then everything is freakin small (even after tweaking registry to increase fonts) and many apps don't display properly (including Transcriber). Another option is to run hacks that make PPC apps VGA-aware, but it breaks some apps and when it works it usually just makes fonts look better, which was the big gripe about Palm's method in the first place. How ironic.

While I'm ranting, all the web browsers for PPC blow big, fat, hairy oozing chunks. I wish Opera would release a PPC version already... or someone would get either Linux or PalmOS to run on the hx4700

Sounds like you and your T3 must be very happy together. :twisted:

*** post edited by moderator for language

I think the point he is making is a valid one. Both the Palm OS and WM OS have their advantages, but in this case, Palm seems to have done a much better job of landscape functionality.

I think that landscape mode is a great thing when it is properly implemented. I use landscape all of the time when web browsing on my Tungsten T3. All I have to do is click on one button, and it changes almost instantaneously. Also, there is no difference in speed between portrait and landscape mode. When I had a Toshiba e805, I found that it was not worth the hassle to switch to landscape; it took too long and the screen redrew too slowly. (On my current 4155, it is, of course, a non-issue.)

TMann

[alizhan]

While I'm bitching about WM2003SE landscape, let me add that its VGA implementation, frankly, sucks. After all the mocking of Palm's double-pixelating technique by some in the PPC camp, I was expecting something more flexible and powerful. Instead, Microsoft seems to have more-or-less copied Palm's approach.
Except that MS had the same problem as Palm did: any change that would be "flexible and powerful" would also break most existing software. Don't forget that MS specifically directed developers to expect a 240x320 screen, with so much space at the top for the titlebar, and so much at the bottom for the toolbar. Pixel-doubling was the only option that would ensure backward compatibility.

That said, I wish MS had allowed some more flexibility in the new design too. I really want my titlebar/toolbar to be about 75% of the size they are now. This is not possible. To be fair, though, allowing such sizing of the bars would mess with a whole other set of software assumptions: icon size.

There's no easy answer to this problem.

With WM200SE VGA, most apps don't actually show more information. Gridlines in Exel are 2 pixels wide. Scroll bar borders are 2 pixels wide. When PIE renders, it increased the size of images and double-pixelates lines.
Those are issues with specific software not taking advantage of VGA, not with VGA itself. Given time, more software will take advantage of the extra resolution.

When I had a Toshiba e805, I found that it was not worth the hassle to switch to landscape; it took too long and the screen redrew too slowly.
That may just be the e805, not WM2003SE. Mine has been dog slow ever since the upgrade to SE as well. Not just in landscape, but across the board. I find it interesting that the e830 uses a different graphics chipset (Intel) than the e805 (ATI). I'm guessing that Toshiba also found the ATI chipset to be seriously wanting under SE...

[jkendrick]

Actually I think the e800 is slower in SE because SE doesn't use the 2MB of video memory in the e800. Doesn't make sense to me but I believe that's where the difference lies in the e800 between FE and SE.

[alizhan]

Actually I think the e800 is slower in SE because SE doesn't use the 2MB of video memory in the e800. Doesn't make sense to me but I believe that's where the difference lies in the e800 between FE and SE.
Right, due to a driver incompatibility, IIRC. MyVGA et al proved that the ATI chipset can handle full VGA resolution with little-to-no slowdown, so it's not that the hardware can't handle the strain. It's that the low-level changes which allow SE's spiffy new features (specifically, on-the-fly rotation) are incompatible with the FE accelerated driver, and Toshiba either wouldn't or couldn't distribute an updated driver. Once the custom driver is gone, all those fancy features of the ATI chipset which made it so fast under FE become an albatross dragging performance down. In this case, the fast video memory buffer was deactivated, forcing the driver to use direct access (or worse, main memory buffers). Combine the smaller bus between the graphics chip and memory, bus contention with other subsystems, and the fact that main memory is just plain slower, and the impact of not using an accelerated driver is quite pronounced.

But there are other areas in which my e805 slowed down under SE, areas which should have little to do with the graphics subsystem. Why do boot and wake-up take so freakin' long now (it can't all be due to slower graphics, can it)? Why does scanning the filesystem take longer now? Why does the system drop screen taps under light load now? The whole PDA has become sluggish; much of that can be attributed to the slower graphics, but I suspect that there's more to it.

In any case, I expect that these problems have been resolved with the e830. Too bad they're not offering them in the US. :(