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davwil
09-21-2004, 11:15 AM
Mornin Everyone.

Paul Thurrott's "Windows Super Site" http://www.winsupersite.com/ has sprouted an interesting sidebar that lists upcoming Microsoft Releases, it talks about "Windows Media Player 10 for Windows Mobile" being release next month.

Does anyone have any info on this?

I wonder how big the RAM footprint on this will be? :(

Cheers David

Shuushin
09-21-2004, 01:53 PM
I just hope its not PC2003 only :| but i think its gonna be.

Darius Wey
09-21-2004, 02:04 PM
I just hope its not PC2003 only :| but i think its gonna be.

I think it most likely will be. This is based on:

(1) Past practices adopted by Microsoft for new product releases for the Pocket PC.
(2) The fact that the website says it is for Windows Mobile.

Although time will tell.

KimVette
09-22-2004, 04:09 PM
From what I saw of WMP10 on the PC, I do not like it. WMP 8 and 9 were okay, using embedded browsers, but WMP at first glance seems to be not only built using .NET, but is itself a web browser with an embedded media player. Heck, if I wanted Windows Media Player to be a web browser, I'd have designed a custom skin for it myself. Microsoft, you're not only holding web techology back due to your lousy PNG renderer, now you're taking desktop software backward by turning EVERYTHING into a web application.

Thanks, Bill.

delfuhd
09-23-2004, 02:47 AM
Well actually WMP10 has been pretty good for me.. It's the first time I've ever just kept WMP on playing, usually I use Winamp or something else to play music because WMP9 was just annoying, but WMP 10 just seems easier to use.. And plus I've never had any problems with it using it's web browsing-capabilities against me.. Just my two cents..

Kowalski
09-23-2004, 09:23 AM
wmp10 has a few small but important improvements for me and i havent face any problems yet. i cant see any good sides of older versions

KimVette
09-23-2004, 03:00 PM
The ONLY problem I have with WMP9 is that it cannot remain on top in every skin mode.

The problem I have with WMP10 is that it's just a new version of MSIE, with the still-broken PNG renderer, and it just happens to play media files. ;) The GUI is slow, it does not work like a desktop client app, and I HATE that in desktop applications. Why does EVERYTHING have to be a web application now? It's getting really annoying. I am hoping the web-browser-is-your-desktop fad dies really soon. It's great for skinning (web forms), to be sure, but client app GUIs can also be skinnable.

It's fine to feature an embedded browser (whether it's Gecko or MSIE, I don't care) but PLEASE don't turn the entire thing into a browser.

Johnathan
09-27-2004, 10:16 PM
I don't know whether the WMP10 for PPC would be okay!

Darius Wey
09-29-2004, 11:07 AM
I don't know whether the WMP10 for PPC would be okay!

In what way?

I'm hoping that a WMP10 port for the Pocket PC will deliver more options for us to tweak at: file associations, visualisations, some sort of media library, tag editing, etc.

If other Pocket PC media players can do it, I'm sure Microsoft would benefit if they at least try to implement half of these features. :)

JvanEkris
09-29-2004, 11:35 AM
Well,

personally i hope they improve the support (for their own!!!) asf streaming format over mms. The only supported format so-far is the asf container with a WMV video and a WMA audio stream. The asf-specification allows more formats to be put in the container, including MP3-audio. However, from VideoLAN i cannot generate a WMA audio-stream (*%$#@$ patended technolgy) and WMP 9 for PocketPC does not understand a MP3 stream. So personally i hope i can start streaming video to Mediaplayer......

Jaap

Darius Wey
09-29-2004, 12:09 PM
I've managed to get an MP3 stream going just fine when I listen to the radio over the internet.

I must admit though, doing it through WMP9 (PPC) is dodgy at times.

JvanEkris
09-29-2004, 02:17 PM
Was that a audiostream or a videostream? When i have a asf-container containing a WMV2 video stream and a MP3 audio stream (= a movie) comming from VideoLAN it does absolutely nothing:(

Jaap

Darius Wey
09-29-2004, 02:22 PM
It was just a straight MP3 stream.

Have you tried a stream from another source?

JvanEkris
09-29-2004, 02:32 PM
Yeah, but it simply ignores it. You can say a lot about media-player, but it is very consistent behaviour......

I found some info: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/wmplay10/mmp_sdk/whatsnewforcallisto.asp

Jaap

Darius Wey
09-29-2004, 02:35 PM
Nice find!

Just what I was looking for!

The plug-in support looks interesting. :D

davwil
09-29-2004, 03:20 PM
Doing some googling for callisto and media player, lead me to this ppt http://www.hands-on-labs.com/only4gurus/techlib/mdc2004/srv222_ramberg_windowsmediade.zip that was given at the mdc conference entitled "Windows Media Development For Windows Mobile Devices (SRV222)" Given by Mark W. Ramberg, Program Manager - Windows Media Player, Microsoft Corporation

Makes Intersting reading...

Cheers David

JvanEkris
09-29-2004, 03:41 PM
Thanks David, this is extremely helpful. Especially the part that they have two seperated decoder engines: the Windows Media and the MP3 part. It explains the problem the current player has with playing asf-streams with MP3 audio. When media player is confronted with a asf containing mp3 audio and WMV video it probably cannot switch codecs for just audio. When confronted with a mp3 audio stream it just selects the audio codec. Seeing the presentation i have the feeling that will not change with the new version.

Basically this blocks any third party from using Microsofts media Player. Although WMV is a know format, WMA is protected by patant laws. Therefor there are no coder for WMA which is freely available. By "demanding" that video streams have WMA audio with them, they can prevent video playback through their player from third party streaming servers........

jaap

Weyoun6
10-05-2004, 07:27 PM
I'm hoping for some WMA professional support, which is their best quality codec, on a par with AAC and OGG.

KimVette
10-06-2004, 01:21 AM
Okay, I tried out Media Player on one of the workstations and I can turn off the annoying web interface and can use the WMP9 skin so I upgraded my own workstation. I'm happy! :D The playback performance seems to be superior to WMP9.

davwil
10-12-2004, 10:05 PM
And here's the skinny from the horses mouth

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/windowsmobile/
default.aspx

Looks like it's not going to be a download but something you can only get in the newer devices and that means news than a hx4700!

Cheers David

jfreiman
10-12-2004, 10:10 PM
I read at Geekzone that only Windows Mobile 2003 *SE* will be upgradable to Mobile Windows Media Player 10 w/DRM 10 "PlayForSure" technology.

That really BITES since my PocketPC WM2003 device has been abandoned by it's maker (HP 4150).

All this time vendors have been saying that SE is no big deal and now that it is, what will they do? I for one want to sync my protected content to my PPC, sync *playlists* and *album art* - all things I really wish I could have done years ago.

See Geekzone: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=3519

It's one thing to upgrade/replace a device for new hardware features or performance, but for me it's a completely differnt thing to upgrade to get better organization of your media files, etc.

At the *very least* MWMP10 should be realeased w/o the DRM10 for users running versions of WM2003 prior to SE.

jeffmd
10-13-2004, 12:24 AM
Or you could give the big fu to ms (as they dont seem to care to support thier own operating systems over a year old) and use other audio formats.

KimVette
10-13-2004, 12:46 AM
FWIW, I've been happily playing MP3s on WMP8 my PocketPC since PPC2K. :)

How to install newer versions of WMP on older versions of PPC, if you can get your hands on the installer:

1. Run WMP setup
2. When error message scolding you for running an obsolete (e.g., more than two weeks old) PPC comes up LEAVE that dialog where it is
3. Go to your temp directory and make a copy of the WMP cab file
4. click OK or close or whatever the "buy a new PocketPC" nag screen dialog has
5. Copy CAB file to your PPC
6. Double-click it
7. Soft-reset (reboot) your PPC. Now you have WMP10 installed.


Enjoy, and you get the last laugh at HP and Dell, etc.

Better yet, dump the PPC and go with Linux! ;) (kidding, only kidding)

Darius Wey
10-13-2004, 01:30 AM
:bad-words: [CONFIRMATION BY MICROSOFT] Again, WM2003 First Edition devices are left out in the dark!

Windows Media Player 10 Mobile will be available on many new Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition–based Smartphones and Pocket PCs beginning this fall.

Darius Wey
10-13-2004, 01:33 AM
if you can get your hands on the installer:

What's the likelihood of that happening? :lol:

jkendrick
10-13-2004, 02:20 AM
It sounds like the upgrade to WMP will require a ROM update meaning we're again at the mercy of the OEMs. This strategy is not going to help the adoption of the MSN Music Store. Might help them sell more PMCs though.

Darius Wey
10-13-2004, 09:55 AM
It sounds like the upgrade to WMP will require a ROM update meaning we're again at the mercy of the OEMs. This strategy is not going to help the adoption of the MSN Music Store. Might help them sell more PMCs though.

Yeah, I think this says it all.

Windows Media Player 10 Mobile is not available for download from Microsoft.

The most annoying thing, besides the fact that Windows Mobile 2003 First Edition users aren't supported, is the fact that there are still companies selling WM2003FE devices right now as we speak. For the clueless consumer who thinks they are getting something that will be upgradeable in the future, this is unfortunate for them. I mean, how different is the architectural code between WM2003FE and WM2003SE? Both run variants of Windows CE 4.2, and would it be that much effort for Microsoft to take this into consideration?

JvanEkris
10-13-2004, 02:26 PM
Let me put it this way: if it was a technical problem preventing the installation of WMP10 on WM2003, i would shoot the developper. It is based in the same 4.2 kernel, so only thing you have to deal with are specific hooks into the OS. If they are that specific i can not inmagine it being that specific that you can develop a WM2003 version.

I must say it is disrespectful to the users to block the release of such a major functional improvement to the current userbase. Like we haven't payed for it or something? I want to plug in new codecs as well! This is ^%$&^% forcing me to buy a new device to solve the problems i have with a device that is 4 months old. I thought the whole idea about Flash-ROM is that you can release updates in the field........

Jaap

Darius Wey
10-13-2004, 02:43 PM
This is ^%$&^% forcing me to buy a new device to solve the problems i have with a device that is 4 months old. I thought the whole idea about Flash-ROM is that you can release updates in the field........

Jaap

I know...as much as it sucks, I've decided against it as a sign to "them" of what I think about it. My little rant can be read here. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33244&highlight=)

KimVette
10-13-2004, 03:27 PM
My solution to the problem (greedy OEMs) is sticking with my 3670 until it dies, then I'll look at an alternate platform.

Hx4700
10-13-2004, 05:41 PM
But Kim - where did you get hold of the installer?????
And more important, where can I get hold of the installer?????
Thanks... Ron...

Darius Wey
10-13-2004, 05:44 PM
But Kim - where did you get hold of the installer?????
And more important, where can I get hold of the installer?????
Thanks... Ron...

That's exactly the point. If only the X50 thus far has WMP10 in it, you would need to extract the actual program files from the Pocket PC, which isn't going to happen because it's not that simple, and I doubt Dell would leave a CAB installer lying around. And this concept is the same for any ROM updates of other devices. It would be hard to find a CAB file if Microsoft does not release one themselves.

jkendrick
10-13-2004, 09:57 PM
Just received this from windows IT Pro:

"Existing users of Dell Axim X30 and HP iPAQ rx3000 Pocket PC devices will be able to upgrade to WMP 10 Mobile within 60 days; other Pocket PC users running Windows Mobile 2003 SE should contact their device makers for upgrade information."

http://www.winnetmag.net/Article/ArticleID/44216/44216.html

Definitely means a ROM upgrade.

KimVette
10-14-2004, 01:59 PM
But Kim - where did you get hold of the installer?????
And more important, where can I get hold of the installer?????
Thanks... Ron...

I don't have WMP10 on my PPC. I wish I had access to the installer. I don't think it's even part of the MSDN Universal subscription. :(

I can't believe how shortsighted Microsoft is - they're the ones which insisted that all PPCs must be flash-upgradable but it seems they are now rewarding OEMs who do not offer upgrades and take advantage of the very spec that Microsoft requires.

Sven Johannsen
10-14-2004, 02:52 PM
I can't believe how shortsighted Microsoft is - they're the ones which insisted that all PPCs must be flash-upgradable but it seems they are now rewarding OEMs who do not offer upgrades and take advantage of the very spec that Microsoft requires.

Might as well start another round of HP...and Dell...bashing. It was not MS that decided not to offer SE upgrades to recent machines from those OEMs. Presumably had they done so, WMP10 mobile would have worked on those platforms, though it probably still would have been incumbent on the OEM to release it. The licensing and agreements between the MS and the OEMs are legally binding. I'm sure there is language in there about what sorts of upgrades can come out of MS, and what must be provided to the OEM for release...or not.

Darius Wey
10-14-2004, 05:17 PM
Rants aside, Paul Thurrott has released his review of WMP10 Mobile, which you can read here. (http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/wmp10_mobile.asp)

Of particular note is his use of the word, stupidly, which in the context of his quote, we are all probably feeling the same thing too. :roll:

Stupidly, Windows Media Player 10 Mobile will only be made available to consumers who purchase new Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition-based portable devices

surur
10-14-2004, 07:16 PM
I can't believe how shortsighted Microsoft is - they're the ones which insisted that all PPCs must be flash-upgradeable but it seems they are now rewarding OEMs who do not offer upgrades and take advantage of the very spec that Microsoft requires.

I can think of two reasons why MS is doing this, one valid and just downright repulsive.

Valid: WMP 10 uses DRM hooks which are only present in WM2003 SE (which of course they never advertised as a feature, as if they would).

Sneaky: PDA's are a stagnant market. To give the market a kick in the butt, they make older devices obsolete in this way, and encourage the OEM's to bad together not to offer the upgrade, making them all look equally bad or good.

Im not sure which one is right, but they are both not very palatable.

Surur

PS For the other thread. Of course SE does not appear to be worth $500 (for a new device), but it certainly seems worth say $30 just for the software.

JvanEkris
10-14-2004, 08:47 PM
One way or the other, you can implement the hooks into the OS by backporting some DLL's. In the Linux-world this is done on a daily basis (look at debian), so why should a professional player like Microsoft not be capable to backport WMP10 to WM2003........

Jaap

jfreiman
10-17-2004, 01:57 AM
Well, I for one am so sick of HP (and others) not updating the OS for their devices.

I have owned 3 generations if iPAQs (Compaq and HP) and only my Compaq got satisfactory upgrades.

HP has not commited to the continueing use of a PPC and has decided to not release updates for units they currently sell.

The SAD thing is, these new Smartphones do nearly everything my iPaq 4150 can do and then some.

I just bought the Audiovox SMT 5600 and will not look back to *any* HP device. No way.

They lost me as a customer and will loose everyone else too - if they don't move to Smartphones and/or support their existing base of users.

Darius Wey
10-17-2004, 04:48 AM
Rumour has it that the support for the Smartphones will die over the next few years, and we will see the market resort back to the production and use of Pocket PC devices. Either way, that doesn't promise anything in terms of updates. :roll:

KimVette
10-17-2004, 08:52 PM
Well, I for one am so sick of HP (and others) not updating the OS for their devices.

I have owned 3 generations if iPAQs (Compaq and HP) and only my Compaq got satisfactory upgrades.

HP has not commited to the continueing use of a PPC and has decided to not release updates for units they currently sell.

HP does not sell iPAQ devices any more. They've effectively killed the iPAQ and brought back the Jornada. (cue Jornada fans' applause!)

Chalk it up to (presumably) Carly's desire for yet more Gulfstream jets so she can fire more Americans and open more slave-wage factories in India.

The SAD thing is, these new Smartphones do nearly everything my iPaq 4150 can do and then some.

The Smartphones can take CF and SD expansion cards, and are not locked, allowing you to change carriers at will, and also allow you to install whatever software you want?

suddenly_ike
10-18-2004, 08:42 AM
How does wmp 10 handles video streams over the internet?

Darius Wey
10-20-2004, 04:07 PM
http://img94.exs.cx/img94/4898/wmp10mob.jpg

On my h1940? How? How? How? :lol:

Link: http://www.freewareppc.com/misc/wm10skin.shtml

Sigh, sadly it's only eye candy. ;)