How Important is a CompactFlash slot to You?

[Jason Dunn]

I was thinking about CompactFlash in Pocket PCs, and I was curious to see how important you felt one was as a factor in your next Pocket PC purchase. Please note that I'm not asking if you prefer CompactFlash over Secure Digital, or another memory card technology. This is simply a question of whether or not CompactFlash support, as a feature, is important to you in your decision of which Pocket PC to buy. Let's assume it's a Type 2 slot that can support any CF card. This is also not an "or" question - let's assume all the Pocket PCs will have a Secure Digital slot. The question is purely about whether or not you absolutely need a CF slot.

[PR.]

It doesn't bother me as I have no addon cards so either SD or CF or both is fine with me!

[Sven Johannsen]

You were thinking about it, Huh? Couldn't have anything to do with the 21 page 203 post bruhaha on the subject could it ;)

[JonnoB]

I would prefer a dual-slot device of almost any type. BT is great, but has limited bandwidth for I/O. I need a fast I/O interface - and a memory expansion capability. Right now, CF seems the most versatile. I would prefer however, dual SD+SD/IO slotted device.

[carphead]

That's a bit of tough question really. I for one would want a CF Slot if the unit didn't have Wi-Fi. But the time when a CF Slot comes in handiest for me is when doing a Hardreset and storing my standard apps backup on it.

I'd really miss the CF slot if I didn't have it on my 22xx but if it had wifi built in then I doubt I'd even notice it.

[Andy Whiteford]

Personally I don't have the need for it - my h4150 doesn't have aCF slot and I get on just fine with that device. With the proliferation of SDIO slots and bluetooth and the drop in SD memory card prices - I would prefer vendors would not add a CF slot and use the saved space for a smaller device or for an increased battery capacity.

[timbur]

Sven

No it's all my fault - from the WiFi poll :wink:

I can't vote in either this or the bluetooth poll - both are essential to me & I have BT & WiFi CF cards - I won't buy a ppc without a CF slot

Can we have a poll on this please? :twisted:

timbur

[fmcpherson]

Because today most Pocket PCs come with SD slots that support storage cards, and often different peripherals, and the emergence of Bluetooth has made CompactFlash less singificant for me.

I am struck by how my answer indicates how handheld technology has changed. Back in 1996/97 when I was determining which PDA I was going to select to replace my Apple Newton, I decided that the support for storage cards, particularly the CompactFlash cards, in Handheld PCs made it more appealing to me than the Palm Pilot. And thus began what is now an eight year journey of using handhelds based on Microsoft's Windows CE operating system.

[raleigh1208]

It was very important for me when my ppc had only 32 mb of memory, but not now with a ppc with 128 mb of memory. I've had my Toshiba e805 for a while now and have yet to use my storage cards, since the built in memory is so good.

[Daimaou]

Personally I need both SD and CF.

In Japan Bluetooth is not popular at all. And we got very cheap GPRS like CF Card called AirH (128Kbps flat fee and soon 256kbps) So in this case with a Loox 720 or an 4700 Hp I am fully wireless.

This system is very popular and even at 128Kbps Skype Work like an Hell in any street or in the subway.

Ok you don't care but wanted to let you know :mrgreen:

[Darius Wey]

Many people see the CF slot as an expansion point for adding Wi-Fi capabilities to their PPC as CF Wi-Fi is a cheaper option than SDIO Wi-Fi. Having said that, memory for CF is dirt cheap, but then SD is soon joining it's ranks.

With the advent of the latest generation of PPC devices and a vast number having Wi-Fi and BT integrated, the need for CF slots may not be as high as it used to be a couple of years ago.

However, CF would certainly be a nice addition nevertheless, if you don't mind a slightly thicker PPC.

[Zack Mahdavi]

I personally don't need CF at all. I only used CF slots as memory storage. I didn't have any other add-on devices. Today, all of my devices use SD, and I wouldn't even buy a device that had CF. I'm big on having small devices, and a CF slot would add too much bulk to my device.

[Kati Compton]

I would prefer a dual-slot device of almost any type. BT is great, but has limited bandwidth for I/O. I need a fast I/O interface - and a memory expansion capability. Right now, CF seems the most versatile. I would prefer however, dual SD+SD/IO slotted device.
Yeah - my priority is for a dual-slot device. Currently I have a preference for that slot to be CF, as my camera uses CF, etc. But if a device was perfect in every other respect and was dual SD, I'd get it.

[Silencer]

My Axim X5 Adv. had one and I was very keen on it. Now that I have my iPAQ 4150, I don´t miss it a second. 512 MB SD Lexar and soon coming 1 GB SD Transcend is enough for all my music, navigation files and eBooks.

If the new device has CF - well, it´s ok, but since WLAN an BT are integrated in most devices, it´s not really necessary for me any more, I don´t need any more extensions via CF.

It might be important if you Digicam has another card type than your PPC has.

[sharyncern]

I guess I misunderstood the question. I need some sort of expandable card slot, don't really care if it's CF or SD or whatever. I have a card reader that reads seven different kinds. I guess I'd go for whatever gives me the most bang for my buck. Currently using a PPC4100 with a 512MB SD card.

[oguime]

I have a CF memory card from my iPaq 3650 days that I've kept to use with a 2210. And I have not bought an SD card yet because:
1) Regular SD cards seem to be much slower than regular CF.
2) I sometimes copy fotos taken by my wife with her Palm Zire to my PocketPC. :wink:
So, performance and flexibility are key factors for me.
But I would consider changing my mind and buying a fast and more expensive SD memory card and CF Wi-Fi though. Or should I buy a more expensive SD Wi-Fi and bigger CF ?????

[disconnected]

I voted that it's a requirement, but actually I agree with JonnoB and Kati; CF is preferable because of the camera, and because I have several CF cards, but I'd be fairly happy with 2 SD slots, and can even live with just one SD slot if need be.

It's hard to answer all these surveys independently, partly because they're kind of interdependent, and partly because we pretty much know what's coming out soon and have already probably figured out what compromises, if any, to make. Basically I want it all (and hope to get it all in either the iPAQ 4700 or the new Toshiba, if it's available in the US), but my hoped-for features, in order or importance (assuming the one SD slot as a given), are Bluetooth (most important), WiFi, four inch VGA screen (can't separate the four inch from the VGA), lots of RAM (or file-store or whatever; not sure how that will all work on the 4700), and then a second slot, preferably CF. I think, on the whole, I'm happier without a built-in camera, just in case I'm somewhere it's not allowed, and I have no opinion yet on a touchpad.

I know, more than you asked or wanted to know. :oops:

[ppcsurfr]

My dreams of having the ultimate PPC would mean that it would have not two but three slots...

1 Type I/II CF slot, 1 SDIO/MMC slot, and one TransFlash slot under the battery for semi-permanent memory expansion.

The SDIO or CF slots can be used for either memory or I/O devices... and since HP has just killed the support for sleeves that even support the PCMCIA cards... then I guess the best thing they could do is to stick to CF first...

There are still things out there in CF format that are useful and may not be available in SD format... so I guess this explains the need of the CF slot.

Examples are CF 10/100 Ethernet cards, CF 56K modem, CF RS-232 port card, CF GSM/GPRS cards, 12GB CF cards... etc.

I didn't mention the others since they are also available in SD format... but for such items... they are actually better in CF format...

Some of the attachments I'd rather have in CF than in SDIO... MArgi Presenter-to-Go... CF looks more durable. CF Camera instead of SD camera. CF Wi-Fi instead of SD Wi-Fi...

SD on the other hand is a good way to have either I/O capabnilities or memory expansion... I mainly use SD for memory expansion (priority).

My CF slot is used as a secondary expansion for more memory... this is where the bulk of my music and video files go. The SD stores my apps and games.

If only I could have a third slot under the battery, probably one that uses something really small like the TransFlash, then I could consider it as a semi-permanent memory upgrade for my Pocket PC. This is where I can really dump data such as email attachments, AvantGo files and more... Probably I can use this also for installing more apps and have no fear of running out of space on my PPC... or corrupting any file because the card was accidentally ejected.

Mabuhay! ~ Carlo

[johncruise]

Great idea Jason for the poll. At least this would make other people to stop saying that "majority" of people don't want a CF card. Looking at the results, (from the time I am looking at it) there is just 5% who voted for the last option. I was thinking that maybe those people all know each other or are working on the same company. :lol: (I hope you guys realize that that was just a joke)

[hawkeye]

I have to have CF.

I blame Compaq since I could only buy a CF sleeve for my 3670. Now I have 5 or 6 CF storage cards, CF ethernet, and a CF modem.

I already have these things...I don't want to buy everything again with an SD interface.

[Vidge]

I've never owed a device with CF so it has never been an issue for me. In choosing a PPC, I picked the HP4155 over the 2200 because of its size. Assuming that CF adds bulk to a unit, I'd prefer not to have it but if by chance a small unit came with CF, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

[Jereboam]

What I want to know is how seanh got to vote 44 times already? ;)

I voted 2. I think the screen size of my chosen device (ie 4in) has a much larger impact on the final size of the device, and with that factor therefore out of the equation I'll take CF if it's there. I am also saving my pennies for a Nikon D70 currently, and being able to pop my CF into my Pocket PC direct from the camera to view the snaps just smacks of cool.

J'bm

[johncruise]

What I want to know is how seanh got to vote 44 times already? ;)

:rotfl:

[Carlos]

You should have included another option: I'd very strongly favor a PPC with a CF slot if it had capabilities similar to one that had SD. But since no Phone Edition device has CF, I can't get one.

[spinedoc]

A CF card is an absolute MUST for me, for the main reason of storage. I have a 4gb microdrive that allows me to use my PPC as it was intended.

Even if it were not for this, my Sprint CDMA data card is CF only, so I am limited by that.

[Paul Martin]

CF is a necessity for me as well, simply because I already have CF memory cards, an ethernet card, a modem, and a wifi card. I also have a HP camera (the one for the 540/560) but since I couldn't use it on another PDA, it wouldn't matter in a future purchasing decision.

[ppcsurfr]

You should have included another option: I'd very strongly favor a PPC with a CF slot if it had capabilities similar to one that had SD. But since no Phone Edition device has CF, I can't get one.

Eten P700 - a Pocket PC Phone Edition with dual slots and BT...

CF and SD (not SDIO though).

Carlo

[mrkablooey]

I'd really miss the CF slot if I didn't have it on my 22xx but if it had wifi built in then I doubt I'd even notice it.

Exactly.

I "upgraded" from 2215 to X30 high and love the built-in wifi! I don't miss the CF at all.

[Jonathon Watkins]

You should have included another option: I'd very strongly favor a PPC with a CF slot if it had capabilities similar to one that had SD. But since no Phone Edition device has CF, I can't get one.

Long option that. :wink: The idea is to keep the poll clear, to avoid muddying the waters. This way it's nice and simple to see what the results mean.

I voted that I had to have a CF slot. Every Digital camera I've owned has used a CF slot and with an 80x 1Gb CF card on the way for my Canon Pro1, I really want to be able to view/edit the pictures in the field with my next PPC. :mrgreen:

[Kati Compton]

You should have included another option: I'd very strongly favor a PPC with a CF slot if it had capabilities similar to one that had SD. But since no Phone Edition device has CF, I can't get one.
Then you vote the middle option. CF isn't the deciding factor for you, phone support is, but you'd like to have CF if it is *also* possible.

[daS]

I have to say I'm shocked by the results of this poll! 8O

If this were a year ago, then I would expect the majority to demand a CF slot. However, now, with the cost of SD memory becoming reasonable, and the ability to get both Wi-Fi and Bluetooth integrated in Pocket PCs, why the need for CF slots? :? I agree with the post that said that this space can be better used to extend the battery life, or better yet - to make the device smaller and lighter.

I'm willing to predict that in less than a year we won't see any new Pocket PC models with CF slots. Instead, we will see SDIO slots and perhaps a second, mini-SD (or similar), slot for expanding main memory.

[arnage2]

i could really care less. If a device comes with a CF slot, then cool. i have use for my 256mb card.

if it doesnt come with a cf slot, then oh well. ill just use my SDs and ill be fine.

i havent bought a cf card in like a year, i just buy SDs now. (to ensure compatability with my devices down the road)

[Phillip Dyson]

CF is important to me. But only from the stand point of dual expansion.
I need one to extend main memory, and another for interchangeable memory.

Everyone says that now that 128mb is becoming standard, that its all they'll every need. But I know better. The more you have, the more you will use. Than the more you'll need.

I have a 2200 and use the SD for installing programs and carrying documents that I need with me all the time.

The CF comes in handy for movies, or GPS maps. Etc ...
Also use it for WIFI, but that wont be necessary with my next PDA.

[ctmagnus]

Feh. Either way. As long as the device has BT, Wifi and at least one SD(IO) slot, I'm fine. If I absolutely had to get a two slot unit I'd prefer two SD slots due to the size factor.

[SeanH]

BT is great, but has limited bandwidth for I/O. I need a fast I/O interface - and a memory expansion capability.
What I/O device beside memory and WiFi (assume it’s built in) do you have that needs more bandwidth then Bluetooth offers? SD addresses memory expansion. There are SD cards out there that are faster then any CF card shipping today. These cards are expensive but price will drop with time.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0405/04053101pretecmmc4.asp

Sean

[SeanH]

Great idea Jason for the poll. At least this would make other people to stop saying that "majority" of people don't want a CF card. Looking at the results, (from the time I am looking at it) there is just 5% who voted for the last option. I was thinking that maybe those people all know each other or are working on the same company. :lol: (I hope you guys realize that that was just a joke)
When I looked at the poll it showed 7% will not buy a PPC with a CF card, 47% will not buy a PPC unless it has CF, 46% do not care if it does or does not. When those 46% people that do not care if there PDA has CF go to buy a band new PPC with the exact same spec’s, what model do you think they will choose?

Example:

Model SM-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO, and consumer grade IR Size (113.6 mm x 70.6 mm x 13.5 mm) < The size of the HP4150

or Model LG-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO + CF, and consumer grade IR Size (131 x 77 x 14.9 mm) < The size of the HP 4705

Lets assume both units are the exact same price. Do you think the 46% people that do not care if a PPC has CF would buy the bigger PDA over the smaller PDA? I personal would choose the smaller PDA.

Sean

[PPCRules]

For anyone but lightweight users a dual slot device is pretty essential (okay, dual wireless units with one slot would serve a lot of people). Frankly, I don't know of any dual SD devices, and since you can use two SD cards in a dual SD & CF device, there is not much reason to go the dual SD route. The only drawback of a sd/cf device is a slight size increase and the gain is a lot of potential expandability. I had felt designers hadn't worked hard enough to minimize the size impact of adding a CF slot. It looks like the Dell X50 might be the first device where they did work hard and put it in a nice small device.

[dhettel]

For me SD does NOT last long term, I have yet to find an SD memory device that last longer than a year or so. I have had them fail as quick as first use, and generally within a few months. My choice would be a device with two CF slots! Funny that I have never had a CF or PCMCIA device fail, and some of them like the PCMCIA devices are very old.

Perhaps I am just very unlucky, or perhaps SD is not ready for prime time. But PocketPC seem to be going in a direction I do not like.

[OSUKid7]

At this time, I'm only considering a Pocket PC with both SD and CF. However, if there were a great Pocket PC with only SD, I'd consider it too. I use a CF camera, so it'd be nice to share the pictures, but that's not going to prevent me from considering non-CF Pocket PCs.

(hmm...that sounds like I'm rambling now that I re-read it :|)

[tommy]

My first PPC had dual slots which was great because my digital camera used CF, I had a 10/100 CF ethernet card and later a CF WiFi card. Now that I've upgraded to a PPC with built-in WiFi and BT and my current digital camera doesn't use CF, having a CF slot has become less of an issue.

At first I really wanted dual slots, but once I started looking at the new models, I just decided it wasn't so important anymore. After shopping around for a few months, I decided that built-in WiFi/BT and a user replaceble battery were more important to me.

[Carlos]

with an 80x 1Gb CF card on the way for my Canon Pro1, I really want to be able to view/edit the pictures in the field with my next PPC.
Yeah, I'd love to be able to put the card from my camera in the PPC. Then again, those are some BIG pictures. I use a Magicstor 2.2GB CF hard drive in my Minolta A2. It's fast, and it was cheap--$140.

I see that Bluetooth is coming in the high end cameras, so that pretty much gets by the need to share media. I'd still love to be able to use that HD for music in my PDA when I'm traveling though.

[Paula]

For my money CF is more reliabe, and I like having dual slots. I can keep one slot for my games and things I want access to all the time and the second slot for interchanging other cards that may contain pics, books, music. Yes, I know I can buy one HUGE SD card and keep it all on there, but I prefer not to do that. I don't trust SD cards.

Paula

[Jonathon Watkins]

with an 80x 1Gb CF card on the way for my Canon Pro1, I really want to be able to view/edit the pictures in the field with my next PPC.
Yeah, I'd love to be able to put the card from my camera in the PPC. Then again, those are some BIG pictures.

Yup, 8MP do give large pricures, but with SPB Imageer it's not a problem. The images load pretty fast and it's a very usable solution.

I see that Bluetooth is coming in the high end cameras, so that pretty much gets by the need to share media.

8O Hmm transfering multiple 4Mb Jpegs over Bluetooth? No thanks. :sleeping: :lol:

[SeanH]

8O Hmm transfering multiple 4Mb Jpegs over Bluetooth? No thanks. :sleeping: :lol:
It would take about 44 seconds per picture.

4MB * 8 = 32Mb
Bluetooth is 720Kb per second
32Mb / 720Kb = 44.4 seconds

Sean

[Jonathon Watkins]

8O Hmm transfering multiple 4Mb Jpegs over Bluetooth? No thanks. :sleeping: :lol:
It would take about 44 seconds per picture.

4MB * 8 = 32Mb
Bluetooth is 720Kb per second
32Mb / 720Kb = 44.4 seconds

Sure and to view a 1Gb CF card would take 250 photos x 44.4 seconds per 4Mb shot = 185 minutes to transfer the images access. Like I said, no thanks. :wink: It's OK for a few (slow) image reviews, but it's not a suitable solution for multiple images. That's why some of the new high end cameras have built in WiFi, rather than BT. Having a CF card in my PPC also means that I can transfer the images from the CF card to a large SD card, then keep on shooting with the freshly cleared CF card.

[SeanH]

Sure and to view a 1Gb CF card would take 250 photos x 44.4 seconds per 4Mb shot = 185 minutes to transfer the images access. Like I said, no thanks. :wink: It's OK for a few (slow) image reviews, but it's not a suitable solution for multiple images. That's why some of the new high end cameras have built in WiFi, rather than BT. Having a CF card in my PPC also means that I can transfer the images from the CF card to a large SD card, then keep on shooting with the freshly cleared CF card.
Bluetooth is not the right solution for moving 1GB of images. Either is a PDA. A USB card reader on a laptop or desktop is the best solution for that. A camera with WiFi is very interesting. Please post a link. If a manufacture embeddeds WiFi in a camera chances are good the camera will run Win CE or embedded linux. How does it transfer the images? Do you setup a network share on the camera with a desktop? Or does the camera act as a server that is accessed over WiFi. Its sounds cool.

Sean

[Jonathon Watkins]

A camera with WiFi is very interesting. Please post a link. If a manufacture embeddeds WiFi in a camera chances are good the camera will run Win CE or embedded linux. How does it transfer the images? Do you setup a network share on the camera with a desktop? Or does the camera act as a server that is accessed over WiFi. Its sounds cool.

More info here (http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/336/C2502/).

The Nikon D2H is the first digital SLR to enable wireless transfers of image files via 802.11b. The D2H captures 25.7MB image files, and can transfer them to a WiFi enabled laptop at around 2.2MBPs, or about 15X in comparison to Compact Flash memory. The Sony Vaio's internal WiFi was tested at double the transfer rate, 4.5MBps or 30 X which is not far behind the best CF II cards on the market today. With CF cards you are limited to the space of your card, with WiFi you have the full storage of your notebook computer available.

Still, my point is that I want a CF slot, as the high end cameras will conintue to use CF card. That's not going to change anytime soon, with CF cards being faster, larger and cheaper than SD cards.

[jlp]

I'm willing to predict that in less than a year we won't see any new Pocket PC models with CF slots. Instead, we will see SDIO slots and perhaps a second, mini-SD (or similar), slot for expanding main memory.

Mmm somebody made the same prediction about 2 years ago when 1GB SD cards were forecasted to become available 1 year later.

a) they came out even later
b) you find more and more PPCs with a CF slot
c) on the contrary I predict that the top of the line PPCs will all and always (foreseeable future) feature both slots.
1) top of the line devices are for power users (private or corporate) who need more choice, more capacity and more ruggedness
2) obviously since CF cards have much more internal volume, you can put more memory chips to lead to higher capacity cards or lower capacity chips to yield the same capacity at much lower prices; also since you can put more electronics, that's the less that go into an external dongle, thus making it smaller; and since the card is thicker and wider that provides for a much stronger connection to that dongle, making the whole thing a lot sturdier

CQFD 8)

And the votes for CF cards being mandatory in their device of choice grow by the minutes :D

Jean-Louis

[jlp]

You should have included another option: I'd very strongly favor a PPC with a CF slot if it had capabilities similar to one that had SD. But since no Phone Edition device has CF, I can't get one.

AFAIK there are 2 PPCPE with CF: XDA II/MDA II/Qtek 2020 has a CF sleeve (with VGA out) and the Eten P700 has an integrated CF slot.

[daS]

I'm willing to predict that in less than a year we won't see any new Pocket PC models with CF slots. Instead, we will see SDIO slots and perhaps a second, mini-SD (or similar), slot for expanding main memory.

Mmm somebody made the same prediction about 2 years ago when 1GB SD cards were forecasted to become available 1 year later.

a) they came out even later
Yes, and a couple of years before that people were voting for PC Card slots because CF was too expensive and very few CF I/O cards existed.

b) you find more and more PPCs with a CF slot
Really? 8O The first generation of Pocket PC's all had CF slots. Now most do not. I think that all have SD slots, while a few have both.

c) on the contrary I predict that the top of the line PPCs will all and always (foreseeable future) feature both slots.
Depending on how you define "top of the line" even today that's not true: Certainly the iPAQ 6315 and XDA III are at the top of their classes (although you might discount Pocket PC Phones in your predictions). Neither have CF slots.
1) top of the line devices are for power users (private or corporate) who need more choice, more capacity and more ruggedness
2) obviously since CF cards have much more internal volume, you can put more memory chips to lead to higher capacity cards or lower capacity chips to yield the same capacity at much lower prices; also since you can put more electronics, that's the less that go into an external dongle, thus making it smaller; and since the card is thicker and wider that provides for a much stronger connection to that dongle, making the whole thing a lot sturdier
Well some "power users" might define top of the line as having the most features built-in. With a large amount of memory, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, a camera, and an SDIO slot, there's not much need for the CF slot. As for ruggedness: certainly a PPC that has all these features built-in is more rugged than a CF card with a dongle for such things as a camera lens.

Finally, on the issue of the larger size of a CF card making it easier to include electronics and less expensive memory chips. That is certainly true. However, the same arguement was made when we started seeing CF slowly replacing PC Cards.

And the votes for CF cards being mandatory in their device of choice grow by the minutes :D
And it still shocks me. :wink:
None the less, SD takes up less space and an SD slot is cheaper for the OEM to include than a CF slot. Even though the SD cards are more expensive, given that the slot is cheaper, I stand by my prediction that CF will not be found on new PPCs within a year's time.

PS: For the majority of you that are hoping that CF sticks around, not to worry: I also predicted that the Handheld PC would continue since "power users" needed keyboards. So my track record on predictions is not too good. :roll: :wink:

[SeanH]

b) you find more and more PPCs with a CF slot
HP is in the process of releasing 5 new PPC’s 1 with CF 4 with out.

HP iPAQ rz1715 Mobile Media Companion SD only
HP iPAQ rx3115 Mobile Media Companion SD only
HP iPAQ rx3715 Mobile Media Companion SD only
HP iPAQ hx4705 Pocket PC CF and SD
HP iPAQ h6315 Pocket PC – Phone Edition SD only

Here are models from Dell all with SD only

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/pda?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

c) on the contrary I predict that the top of the line PPCs will all and always (foreseeable future) feature both slots.
I predict the opposite. Bluetooth is really taking off for peripherals. CF is not longer needed for peripherals for mainstream applications.

2) obviously since CF cards have much more internal volume, you can put more memory chips to lead to higher capacity cards or lower capacity chips to yield the same capacity at much lower prices; also since you can put more electronics, that's the less that go into an external dongle, thus making it smaller; and since the card is thicker and wider that provides for a much stronger connection to that dongle, making the whole thing a lot sturdier
If you opened a CF flash card you will find a CF controller and one or more parallel NAND Flash chips. You can not open a SD card but if you pulled off the epoxy you will find a single piece of Die. The Die has a serial interface and all the NAND Flash. CF came from PCMCIA, PCMCIA came from the 16bit ISA bus in old PC’s. SD was designed from day one to have a very small form factor. I have seen roadmaps for 16GB serial NAND Flash that will be used in SD cards in the next 6 months. SD will surpass CF in speed, cost and density in the next 6 months.

Sean

[Fishie]

Personally I need both SD and CF.

In Japan Bluetooth is not popular at all. And we got very cheap GPRS like CF Card called AirH (128Kbps flat fee and soon 256kbps) So in this case with a Loox 720 or an 4700 Hp I am fully wireless.

This system is very popular and even at 128Kbps Skype Work like an Hell in any street or in the subway.

Ok you don't care but wanted to let you know :mrgreen:


Hey man, I am visiting Tokyo and Kyoto early next month(gonna conduct some interviews at sega and Nintendo), we should meet up.

[Fishie]

b) you find more and more PPCs with a CF slot
HP is in the process of releasing 5 new PPC’s 1 with CF 4 with out.

HP iPAQ rz1715 Mobile Media Companion SD only
HP iPAQ rx3115 Mobile Media Companion SD only
HP iPAQ rx3715 Mobile Media Companion SD only
HP iPAQ hx4705 Pocket PC CF and SD
HP iPAQ h6315 Pocket PC – Phone Edition SD only

Here are models from Dell all with SD only

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/pda?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

c) on the contrary I predict that the top of the line PPCs will all and always (foreseeable future) feature both slots.
I predict the opposite. Bluetooth is really taking off for peripherals. CF is not longer needed for peripherals for mainstream applications.

2) obviously since CF cards have much more internal volume, you can put more memory chips to lead to higher capacity cards or lower capacity chips to yield the same capacity at much lower prices; also since you can put more electronics, that's the less that go into an external dongle, thus making it smaller; and since the card is thicker and wider that provides for a much stronger connection to that dongle, making the whole thing a lot sturdier
If you opened a CF flash card you will find a CF controller and one or more parallel NAND Flash chips. You can not open a SD card but if you pulled off the epoxy you will find a single piece of Die. The Die has a serial interface and all the NAND Flash. CF came from PCMCIA, PCMCIA came from the 16bit ISA bus in old PC’s. SD was designed from day one to have a very small form factor. I have seen roadmaps for 16GB serial NAND Flash that will be used in SD cards in the next 6 months. SD will surpass CF in speed, cost and density in the next 6 months.

Sean

Well thats a huge improvement then isnt it?

Up until the release of the Ipaq 2210/2215 there wasnt a single Ipaq that had a CF slot while they had several models with SD slots(the first few ipaqs had no built in expansion whatsoever).

So HP goes from not a single device in their line up that has CF to two devices in their line up that have CF and somehow that is supposed to prove the death of CF?

I have news for you SeanH, 2 is BIGGER then none, a lot bigger, I mean the difference is humongous.
Let me draw a parralel here, if 2 would be mount Everest none would be a spec of dust that does not really exist.
In short 2 is bigger then none.


PS TRANSFLASH WILL NEVER DIE

[isilver]

Compact flash is a must for me. I currently have a Cannon camera that also has compact flash. there is nothing more convenient then to plug the compact flash card into my pocketpc so manipulate the photos and then save them for use later.

I need a compact flash card. Even more so then a Secure Digital card. But SD is so compact I find it to be very useful itself.

[Falstaff]

When I looked at the poll it showed 7% will not buy a PPC with a CF card, 47% will not buy a PPC unless it has CF, 46% do not care if it does or does not. When those 46% people that do not care if there PDA has CF go to buy a band new PPC with the exact same spec’s, what model do you think they will choose?

Example:

Model SM-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO, and consumer grade IR Size (113.6 mm x 70.6 mm x 13.5 mm) < The size of the HP4150

or Model LG-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO + CF, and consumer grade IR Size (131 x 77 x 14.9 mm) < The size of the HP 4705

Lets assume both units are the exact same price. Do you think the 46% people that do not care if a PPC has CF would buy the bigger PDA over the smaller PDA? I personal would choose the smaller PDA.

Sean

I am a person who would still choose the larger PDA. Frankly, I don't care what kind of PDA you want, I don't care what you think PDAs should be used for (you called viewing lots of large images on a PPC not a great use, and reccommended using a laptop or desktop), I just care what PDA I want and what I want to do with it.

You are trying to tell people what they should be doing with their PDAs and what their PDA should have. Here you even skew facts, how do you fit a 4" VGA screen into a PDA the size of a 4150? Sure, I like small devices, to a point. But I want a 4" VGA screen, and I want a CF slot. Why am I so horribly backwards and outdated that I want a CF slot? Choices. I can use eiter type of memory I want. I've been able to look at photos from other people who have CF cameras on my PDA, and the same with my dad's SD camera. I like the ability to do things like that and always be ready for things like that.

So maybe you don't want CF, and sure, talk about that, but don't say people shouldn't do what they are doing now and have been doing because you don't like it. Let other people do what has worked well for them, and put forth your points, but don't shove them down everyon else's throats.

[SeanH]

Well thats a huge improvement then isnt it?

Up until the release of the Ipaq 2210/2215 there wasnt a single Ipaq that had a CF slot while they had several models with SD slots(the first few ipaqs had no built in expansion whatsoever).

So HP goes from not a single device in their line up that has CF to two devices in their line up that have CF and somehow that is supposed to prove the death of CF?

I have news for you SeanH, 2 is BIGGER then none, a lot bigger, I mean the difference is humongous.
Let me draw a parralel here, if 2 would be mount Everest none would be a spec of dust that does not really exist.
In short 2 is bigger then none.

I do not understand your post. Are you saying that none of the iPAQ’s ever had a CF slot now two do? All iPAQ’s for many years used a sleeve for CF expansion. HP has moved away from the sleeve. I know the 1715, 3115, 3715 and 6315 are SD only. The 4705 has CF and SD. Did HP release a second device with this new group of PDA’s that has CF?

Sean

[SeanH]

I am a person who would still choose the larger PDA. Frankly, I don't care what kind of PDA you want, I don't care what you think PDAs should be used for (you called viewing lots of large images on a PPC not a great use, and reccommended using a laptop or desktop), I just care what PDA I want and what I want to do with it.
I have a lot of pictures on my PDA and show them using the Resco viewer. They are all resized on the desktop to 320x240 and stored on my memory card. What I posted before is that viewing a picture on the 2” screen of my camera compared to the 4” screen of a PDA does not make a lot of difference to me. They look better on a 14” laptop screen. If people want to take the CF card out of there camera and view them on a PDA that is fine with me.

Here you even skew facts, how do you fit a 4" VGA screen into a PDA the size of a 4150? Sure, I like small devices, to a point.
I am not skewing facts. I posted this along time ago

HP iPAQ h4150 - 113.6 mm x 70.6 mm x 13.5 mm
It would be great if HP kept the form factor of the 4150 but added a 4” VGA display. The following can work:
(Top to bottom)
114mm tall with 10mm of plastic at the top, 81mm of screen and 23mm at the bottom for the buttons and pad/joystick.
(Side to side)
71mm wide with 5mm on each side.
(Thickness)
Make it thinner then 13.5mm, 7-10mm would be great.

This is very feasible.

But I want a 4" VGA screen, and I want a CF slot.
That’s great and you fit in the 47% of the people that will not buy a PDA with out CF. My example was if the 46% people did not care if they had CF or not. I would bet they would choose a smaller model with the exact same feature set minus CF. Note my example had a 4.0” VGA display.

Sean

[dh]

Isn't everyone getting fed up with this yet?
Sean, why don't you get a pa!m? They are SD only, would be perfect for you.

[gtarent]

I too am a "must have", I like the extra space for additional memory. I use the SD to install programs to, and fill remaining space with oggs. I use Compact Flash purely for multimedia, My digital camara also uses compact flash so I can use my 2200 as a quick viewer.
I still don't understand the need for built in WIFI, of course I am not a hot spot user, nor does my work allow WIFI access so since I don't get much use of it, none of you could possibly need it :twisted:. I did purchase a CF wifi card, but rarely drop it in, as I find the extra ram much more useful than the wifi.

[gtarent]

Just as a quick sidebar, because I am curious. For you SD only people, I assume you use it primarily for memory, what size card do you use? Also do you install many programs to the SD card?

[SeanH]

Just as a quick sidebar, because I am curious. For you SD only people, I assume you use it primarily for memory, what size card do you use? Also do you install many programs to the SD card?
CF memory or SD memory look identical to the OS. You can install apps, pics, music, video, GPS maps, ect on both types of cards. With both types of cards you can buy lower cost models or really fast models that cost more. There is about a 5-10% difference in price between the SD and CF. 1GB SD and CF cards are about $100, 512MB are about $55, 256MB is around $22, 128MB is around $10. The biggest difference is the space the card takes up in your hand held PDA.

Sean

[Fishie]

Well thats a huge improvement then isnt it?

Up until the release of the Ipaq 2210/2215 there wasnt a single Ipaq that had a CF slot while they had several models with SD slots(the first few ipaqs had no built in expansion whatsoever).

So HP goes from not a single device in their line up that has CF to two devices in their line up that have CF and somehow that is supposed to prove the death of CF?

I have news for you SeanH, 2 is BIGGER then none, a lot bigger, I mean the difference is humongous.
Let me draw a parralel here, if 2 would be mount Everest none would be a spec of dust that does not really exist.
In short 2 is bigger then none.

I do not understand your post. Are you saying that none of the iPAQ’s ever had a CF slot now two do? All iPAQ’s for many years used a sleeve for CF expansion. HP has moved away from the sleeve. I know the 1715, 3115, 3715 and 6315 are SD only. The 4705 has CF and SD. Did HP release a second device with this new group of PDA’s that has CF?

Sean

Exactly what I said, before the Ipaq 2215 there wasnt a single Ipaq in existence that had a CF slot, now there are two(the 2215 will be replaced by the 2700 series soon, another mid level dual slot device).
Sleevs or no sleeves doesnt matter, they have more devices with built in CF now then they ever had.

[SeanH]

Sleevs or no sleeves doesnt matter, they have more devices with built in CF now then they ever had.
I disagree. Sleeves mean CF support. iPAQ’s have supported CF for the last 4 years. HP stopped creating units that supported sleeves so they added CF support to a couple of units. All the units over the last two years have SD.

Compaq made the decision to use CF sleeves because when the 3650 was released four years ago PCMCIA memory and PCMCIA peripherals were a lot more popular and cost a lot less. They offered PCMCIA sleeves for those cards. People back then said CF will never make it. CF took off but people still wanted smaller PDA’s so Compaq starting shipping SD in every PDA. Over the years SD was proven to be a viable solution for storage. Bluetooth is still new but has taken over for peripherals.

Sean

[johncruise]

Great idea Jason for the poll. At least this would make other people to stop saying that "majority" of people don't want a CF card. Looking at the results, (from the time I am looking at it) there is just 5% who voted for the last option. I was thinking that maybe those people all know each other or are working on the same company. :lol: (I hope you guys realize that that was just a joke)
When I looked at the poll it showed 7% will not buy a PPC with a CF card, 47% will not buy a PPC unless it has CF, 46% do not care if it does or does not. When those 46% people that do not care if there PDA has CF go to buy a band new PPC with the exact same spec’s, what model do you think they will choose?

Example:

Model SM-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO, and consumer grade IR Size (113.6 mm x 70.6 mm x 13.5 mm) < The size of the HP4150

or Model LG-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO + CF, and consumer grade IR Size (131 x 77 x 14.9 mm) < The size of the HP 4705

Lets assume both units are the exact same price. Do you think the 46% people that do not care if a PPC has CF would buy the bigger PDA over the smaller PDA? I personal would choose the smaller PDA.

Sean

Awww geezzz.... here he goes again. Try to cut down the coffee man. I am not a mind reader to check what those 46% will choose. Some of them will choose a PPC with CF... maybe some will not. Do you know? By the way, did you notice that I said, "from the time I am looking at it"? And one more thing... your example is "flawed"...., you are comparing a unit with an SD vs a unit that has an SD "&" a CF. Give me a sample unit from the same manufacturer, the same spec (and everything) except for the expansion memory type and see how "huge" (as you claim it to be) the difference will be.

Ok, ok.... just to answer your last question -- from those 46% you are talking about, "if" they want dual expansion slot, "most likely they would choose the second one".

[SeanH]

I am not a mind reader to check what those 46% will choose. Some of them will choose a PPC with CF... maybe some will not.
Based on what you see in the industry with portable devices the trend seems to be that smaller is better. Laptops year after year keep getting smaller yet the screen size does not change a lot. It’s amazing to see all the new technologies that cell phones are using to make them smaller yet with larger screens. They slide open, they flip open, and some have a keypad that pulls out the bottom. The trend seems to be to keep the user interface at a reasonable size yet making the unit as small as possible. I can not predict those that voted that they do not care if there PDA has CF or not would choose a smaller device with out CF. Chances are good they will choose the smaller device. If you do not care about CF why would anyone buy a larger device with the exact same feature set for the exact same price or possibly less?

And one more thing... your example is "flawed"...., you are comparing a unit with an SD vs a unit that has an SD "&" a CF. Give me a sample unit from the same manufacturer, the same spec (and everything) except for the expansion memory type and see how "huge" (as you claim it to be) the difference will be.
I am not sure what you mean.

How about this.

Model SM-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO, and consumer grade IR Size (113.6 mm x 70.6 mm x 13.5 mm) < The size of the HP4150

or Model LG-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, just CF, and consumer grade IR Size (131 x 77 x 14.9 mm) < The size of the HP 4705

SD cards are really small, I do not think removing it from my example is going to make the CF unit a lot smaller.

Sean

[gtarent]

CF memory or SD memory look identical to the OS. You can install apps, pics, music, video, GPS maps, ect on both types of cards. With both types of cards you can buy lower cost models or really fast models that cost more. There is about a 5-10% difference in price between the SD and CF. 1GB SD and CF cards are about $100, 512MB are about $55, 256MB is around $22, 128MB is around $10. The biggest difference is the space the card takes up in your hand held PDA.

Sean

I know that the OS can see both. In my case I have 1 256 meg SD and 1 512 and 1 256 meg CF. I install most programs to the SD and it never moves, I know if my SD card is in I am able to run every program I want. CF cards I use purely as space to hold music, pictures and movies. If I have the wrong card in I may not be able to hear the music I want, but all my programs will still run. I was wondering if you swapped your cards, or whether they you tended to keep 1 card in the majority of the time. Plus where do you do your shopping.... I must be buying from the wrong places becaue I am paying about $29 for a 256 CF card

[Kati Compton]

I think a lot of people were voting for the middle option if they'd "like" to have CF, but other features were more important. So, if for example, all the new VGA models did NOT have CF, they'd still buy a VGA ppc if VGA was the most important feature. But perhaps if there was a VGA model without a CF slot, and one with a CF slot, they'd choose the one with.

[Kati Compton]

Model SM-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO, and consumer grade IR Size (113.6 mm x 70.6 mm x 13.5 mm) < The size of the HP4150

or Model LG-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, just CF, and consumer grade IR Size (131 x 77 x 14.9 mm) < The size of the HP 4705

Neither. If those were my choices, I'd stick with my Axim X5 or get an Asus 620.

[SeanH]

know that the OS can see both. In my case I have 1 256 meg SD and 1 512 and 1 256 meg CF. I install most programs to the SD and it never moves, I know if my SD card is in I am able to run every program I want. CF cards I use purely as space to hold music, pictures and movies. If I have the wrong card in I may not be able to hear the music I want, but all my programs will still run. I was wondering if you swapped your cards, or whether they you tended to keep 1 card in the majority of the time. Plus where do you do your shopping.... I must be buying from the wrong places becaue I am paying about $29 for a 256 CF card
I keep everything on one 1GB card. I have not used two storage cards in a PDA at the same time. I am sure there are rules on how you install apps and were you put data.

Here are some CF 256MB cards for less then $22

http://www.buy.com/retail/product_jump.asp?sku=10356057&SearchEngine=Shopper&SearchTerm=10356057&Type=PE&Category=Comp&dcaid=15889 $17

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=617442&Sku=D188-1004&SRCCODE=CNETFEED&CMP=OTC-CNETFEED $17

Here are some SD 256MB cards

http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?store=pcmall&dpno=144985&source=CNETSHOPPERPC&adcampaign=email,CNETSHOPPERPC $15

http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?store=pcmall&dpno=763471&source=CNETSHOPPERPC&adcampaign=email,CNETSHOPPERPC $20

Sean

[SeanH]

I think a lot of people were voting for the middle option if they'd "like" to have CF, but other features were more important. So, if for example, all the new VGA models did NOT have CF, they'd still buy a VGA ppc if VGA was the most important feature. But perhaps if there was a VGA model without a CF slot, and one with a CF slot, they'd choose the one with.
I think the way it was worded was perfect.

If it has it, great, if not - I'll still buy it. It's not a deciding factor
To me that means if the PDA has CF that’s great, if it’s there and I never use it that is fine with me. If it’s not there that is fine with me also. It’s not its not going to make me decide to buy that particular PDA or not.

I do think the people that voted “If it has it, great, if not - I'll still buy it. It's not a deciding factor” would choose a smaller PDA with the same features at the same price on a unit with out CF.

Sean

[hollis_f]

In my case I have 1 256 meg SD and 1 512 and 1 256 meg CF. I install most programs to the SD and it never moves, I know if my SD card is in I am able to run every program I want. CF cards I use purely as space to hold music, pictures and movies.
Yup, that's the way I work. A 512MB SD card holds all the essentials (including GPS maps - hence the large size). CF is used for media - normally a 1GB card with a couple of movies and a zillion PDF files lives in there. Often one of the 512MB cards I use with the camera goes in so I can view the pictures.

I can swap the CF files willy-nilly and know that all my progs will still work.

[Kati Compton]

I do think the people that voted “If it has it, great, if not - I'll still buy it. It's not a deciding factor” would choose a smaller PDA with the same features at the same price on a unit with out CF.
I know for sure that not all of them would. Because to many people CF *is* a feature, so the devices wouldn't *have* the "same features at the same price". If you'd like, you can run your own poll to check.

[Kati Compton]

In my case I have 1 256 meg SD and 1 512 and 1 256 meg CF. I install most programs to the SD and it never moves, I know if my SD card is in I am able to run every program I want. CF cards I use purely as space to hold music, pictures and movies.

I can swap the CF files willy-nilly and know that all my progs will still work.
Me three. Quite useful. Dual slot is critical to me. CF is slightly less critical than dual-slot, though it'd be a lot more expensive for me to move to a dual-SD machine (replacing memory cards and a digital camera that I might not otherwise replace). However, since there aren't any dual-SD devices (yet), that issue is irrelevant.

[SeanH]

Because to many people CF *is* a feature, so the devices wouldn't *have* the "same features at the same price".
You are correct it is a feature. But here are the options on the poll.

I will ONLY buy a device that has a CF slot (These people require that feature and will not buy a PDA with out CF)

If it has it, great, if not - I'll still buy it. It's not a deciding factor (These people do not care if the feature is there or not there. “if not - I'll still buy it”)

I will NOT buy a device that has a CF slot - I don't want it at all (These people want a small PDA like the HP 4150 and know that can only be done with out CF)

I am not against a device with two SD slots for those that need it. I prefer one big card with all my apps and data. It is still possible to create a device with a 4” VGA screen and 2 SD slots the size of the 4150. It is not possible to include CF in a device the same size of a 4150.

Sean

[Jereboam]

The gods have mercies are we actually arguing about the poll itself now? Lets have a new poll about whether this poll should be altered.... :D

J'bm

[Hx4700]

I have too much invested in CF addons that I really want a duel-slot machine. (guess which one :wink: )
1) CF modem card (for hotels that don't have net)
2) CF network card (for traveling)
3) CF camera with flash (I don't want a permanent camera -many other threads on this pro and con - but mainly for places that don't allow cameras)
4) CF GPS - easier for walking around without separate BT mod, but can use separate antenna when needed)
5) My real camera uses CF cards - easy to copy to PDA when traveling for backup as I use smaller cards for camera
6) Have many CF memory cards of all sizes (4gig MD to 16m CF) and only a few SD for maps to use with GPS. (and SD costs more for same size)
Money I would spend to buy alternatives for above will help pay for new top end model.
Ron...

[Kati Compton]

Because to many people CF *is* a feature, so the devices wouldn't *have* the "same features at the same price".
You are correct it is a feature. But here are the options on the poll.
Well, unfortunately, not only do I like CF, but I also vote for the poll option that is "close enough" even if it's not exactly correct in every way. Sorry if I threw off all the poll results by voting for the middle option even though I prefer to have CF - it's just that it wasn't the most important deciding factor. ;)

[axe]

The ipaq 2200's CF slot was a deciding factor for me, partly because I had a CF sled from my 3600 and I already had the media. I have also found CF devices much easier to find in stores than SDIO devices, such as wireless, and even a modem, since free hotspots are not very prevalent outside of city and since 'stealing bandwidth' from someone isn't something I'm into.
I have found CF cards are cheaper too. Currently I have an SD memory card and a CF memory card in my 2200, but switch the second card out regularly for my CF Wifi card.
I agree with another comment that if my device had wifi built in I wouldn't notice it as much, but my modem is a good fallback when I'm on the road.
I would have to think long and hard whether or not to buy a Wifi-enabled SDIO-only device or get one that still has the CF slot... It would probably have to come up to some other deciding factor like BIOS flashes ( :evil: HP!) or phone Edition device or something...
my 2c
AXE

[rmasinag]

I really do like CF slot because I use it in my hp 2210 and my digicam. but something happened this labor day weekend that gave me pause to the vunerabilities of a CF device not the CF card itself. I bent a pin on my ipaq and I dunno what I would do if the pins start bending and falling of f my devices. It made me pause and think about investing in a SD cards.

I would hate that scenario, but that's a vunerability I have to accept :(

[maximus]

I was thinking about CompactFlash in Pocket PCs, and I was curious to see how important you felt one was as a factor in your next Pocket PC purchase.

I will not buy a PPC without CF slot. Simple.
I have a hobby to take pictures, and most of my camera is using CF card.
I want to be able to view my pictures on a 3"+ screen on my PPC, instead of the miniscule LCD on the cameras.

[gtarent]

SeanH I guess I don't understand your obsession against CF. I understand you prefer not having one and instead having a smaller device, but why worry about what other people are buying? You have stated yourself that the market is moving away from CF, so what more do you want?

[Numsquat]

I want a dual-slot and since SD/CF is the only combo right now, that's what I look for.

I keep files, some programs, ebooks, pictures on the CF (and currently use a CF wifi card though next unit will have it built in) and use the SD for music and video. My camera uses SD so I can transfer pics to the CF also.

[johncruise]

Based on what you see in the industry with portable devices the trend seems to be that smaller is better.


Not entirely true. If you were asking my opinion, I will say that some devices, when it becomes smaller, it's not really for the best. I personally don't like a smaller laptop (thinner doesn't necessarily means smaller). For PPC, there are up to a certain limit as to where I would say small is ok. (definitely, "I" don't like my wife's iPaq 1910 even if it's smaller than my E-200)


If you do not care about CF why would anyone buy a larger device with the exact same feature set for the exact same price or possibly less?
I want what I want, the same as what, you want what you want (I'm confused to what I just said also). If it doesn't meet my expectations, I wouldn't even consider buying it. Maybe that's why I am still sticking with my Casio E-200. It has dual slot (one is CF -- expandable to 3 because of the pc card unit), & USB host capabilities. If I'll be buying another PPC, it better have those features plus some goodies.

I am not sure what you mean.

How about this.

Model SM-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, SDIO, and consumer grade IR Size (113.6 mm x 70.6 mm x 13.5 mm) < The size of the HP4150

or Model LG-PPC

PXA270 running at 624MHz, 128MB RAM, 128MB ROM, 4” VGA, Built in WiFI, built in Bluetooth, just CF, and consumer grade IR Size (131 x 77 x 14.9 mm) < The size of the HP 4705
What I meant was... you're are not using a good example on your previous post. You are claiming that the unit got bigger because of CF right? Well, fact is it got really bigger because it uses 2 expansion slots instead of one. Where does the CF slot located? If it's at the back of the SD, of course there's the additional PCB (or 2 plus a board to board connector), plus the thickness of the CF added to the equation. How thick is a CF (or CFII) is compared with an SD? A few millimeters difference? That doesn't add too much bulk.

SD cards are really small, I do not think removing it from my example is going to make the CF unit a lot smaller.
... nor "replacing the SD with a CF" will make the unit "a lot" bigger.

John

[beq]

Is there something wrong with the poll? It's showing same 33% for all three voting selections (yes, no, don't care). How is a device manufacturer supposed to interpret that?

Or rather, perhaps there's something peculiar about the makeup of PPCT readers :)

[drop]

The poll shows 66% could live without CF. Mmm... I didn't know the number would be this high.

[Arqentus]

The poll shows 66% could live without CF. Mmm... I didn't know the number would be this high.

There is something wrong with the poll ...


It showed that 49% wanted to buy a device only if it had a CF slot, while 43% answerd that It's not a deciding factor, and only 7% answering a total no to CF slots ...

A day ago, the voting was 900 vote's, with 49 - 43 - 7%. I think somebody has been faking the results this last day, becouse 2000 vote's in only 1 day, while it took several just for those 900 ... this is wrong ... and even more that the poll is now exactly 33 - 33 - 33% ... impossible ... Somebody have been using a hack or something to bring up the vote's or there is one hell of a database error going on ...


Prime suspect: SeanH :D :D :D

j/k SeanH ;)

[Kati Compton]

Yes, there is clearly something wrong with the poll. We don't know what happened yet. *Hopefully* it's a database error, as it would be rather lame if a user intentionally botched the poll.

[Kati Compton]

So, we looked into what was going on. Turns out there were a ton of POST requests to that thread (well over a thousand) from a single IP. Well, then we wanted to know who was posting from that IP, so we looked it up in the database.

It turns out that it was SeanH's IP.

It's one thing to be disagreeable - we all are at some point or another. Nor do we expect everyone to agree on CF slots or any other issue. However, it's quite another thing to sabotage a poll, ruining it for others. SeanH is no longer welcome at this site, and has been banned.

[Jason Dunn]

Although this thread is now locked, I wanted to add that I authorized SeanH to be banned. Spoofing our polls is paramount to attacking our server, which I take very seriously. I also take it seriously when poll results become invalid, because that lessens my ability to pass this type of information onto OEMs and have the voice of the PPCT community heard.

SeanH is not welcome in this community any longer, and I'd caution anyone else who thinks to falsify results in a poll - it's quite simple for us to catch you. :twisted: