Why can't HPC devices run the applications written for PPCs!

[Kowalski]

I dont get this: both HPC and PPC platforms run on the same core OS, windowsce 4.x . The only difference is that PPC devices shell is a little bit different than HPC. Up to WM 2003 SE all PPC were using the same resolution but since microsoft began to support different resolutions, the only difference is HPCs have keyboard and PPCs not.
I bealive that microsoft can manage to make executables to run on both platforms but they dont. One can make some tweaks and hack PPC programs to work on HPCs but some programs dont work this way
Does anybody have any idea about this?

[Jonathon Watkins]

I'd like to know the same thing myself. As you said, the PPC shell is different, but I would have thought that more apps would be ported across.....

[Fishie]

Well apparently a lot of em can when you edit the registry.

There are such workarounds for lots of programs to make em run on the Sigmarion3 and to a lesser extend the hp720/728(that one is a bit harder as it has an older WinCE then the Sigmarion).

Then there are programs which work just like that since the program is aware of resolution and OS.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Well apparently a lot of em can when you edit the registry.


Have you got any links Fishie? I have found a few in the past, but am always interested in knowing of more.

[Fishie]

There is some stuff here: http://handheldpcs.superboxes.com/

There is lots more on Japanese Sigmarion3 fansites.

[Janak Parekh]

the only difference is HPCs have keyboard and PPCs not.
Far from it! The Pocket PC introduces a number of APIs that didn't exist in HPC 2000. Since the HPC OS is essentially end-of-life (dormant, at least), it's not getting the new APIs that have been introduced into the Pocket PC OS.

Yes, I know CE 4+ is still being developed, and new CE units are essentially the modern "HPC replacement", but realize the CE OS is turned over to the Pocket PC folks, who then add more content onto the "default install".

Now, if you're asking why the Pocket PC OS isn't available for HPC-formfactor devices, that's an entirely different (and very interesting!) question. I think you will start to see HPC-like devices that run the Pocket PC OSes -- for example, the MPx is a miniature version of an HPC -- it's a matter of a little time before OEMs start doing that in larger numbers.

--janak

[Fishie]

the only difference is HPCs have keyboard and PPCs not.
Far from it! The Pocket PC introduces a number of APIs that didn't exist in HPC 2000. Since the HPC OS is essentially end-of-life (dormant, at least), it's not getting the new APIs that have been introduced into the Pocket PC OS.

Yes, I know CE 4+ is still being developed, and new CE units are essentially the modern "HPC replacement", but realize the CE OS is turned over to the Pocket PC folks, who then add more content onto the "default install".

Now, if you're asking why the Pocket PC OS isn't available for HPC-formfactor devices, that's an entirely different (and very interesting!) question. I think you will start to see HPC-like devices that run the Pocket PC OSes -- for example, the MPx is a miniature version of an HPC -- it's a matter of a little time before OEMs start doing that in larger numbers.

--janak

Urm no, more like handed over to the PPC folks and crippled, or at the verry least condensed so it is more efficient and adheres to certain rules MS set for PPC devices.

Sigmarion, The Siemens pad the Samsung Nexio all run on the same baseOS the latest PPC devices do.

[Janak Parekh]

Sigmarion, The Siemens pad the Samsung Nexio all run on the same baseOS the latest PPC devices do.
... which is CE - I know. I don't use CE devices much - would you argue its featureset is a strict superset of Pocket PCs?

--janak

[Fishie]

WinCE 4.1 and 4.2 to be precise and yes they run the same basic featureset.

XScale processors, similar memory make up, same set of productivity apps, same version of IE etcetera etcetera.

In fact a lot of the programs that come in ROM are exactly the same and interoperable.
Just like games that have not been hardcoded to a certain resolution (like Warfare Inc) these programs can automaticaly detect the resolution the hardware is running at and adapt.

[Kirkaiya]

One question I have is - if I have a device that came with Windows CE 4.2 ("Windows CE .NET"), on which I've managed to install some of my favorite PPC applications (my trusty FlexWallet, which I bought like, 2 years ago when we had the promotion on here), and even my AvantGo client installed fine (and syncs fine) - so is it possible to copy my Pocket Outlook, or Calendar programs from my PPC (PPC 2002) to my WinCE 4.2 device and run them there?

The resolution is the same - my WinCE device is an Axia A108 phone, with 240x320, and a 266 MHz Freescale (ARM) chip, and even my trusty WIS-bar installed and runs (although i uninstalled it because the icons show up at the bottom, half-way off the screen...)

The Axia did not come bundled with Pocket Outlook (email, calendar, tasks), but instead their own crappy versions. I have an iPaq 1910 which is about ready for retirement (the battery is pretty much gone, and so I won't be using it anymore), so if it's legal, I'd like to copy some of my bought-and-paid-for apps (like Pocket Outlook) over from the old iPaq to my Axia, and use them rather then the wanna-be apps that Oswin included with the phone.

*whew*

Does anybody know of a way to copy addrbook.exe, calendar.exe, etc, from my iPaq ROM over to my PC? I know it's possible, but I can't find a utility to let me do this. hmmmm

[cmonex]

i know this is an old thread but i searched for sigmarion (trying to find info on sig3 rom flashing) and found this...

i think MS could make the HPC much more compatible with PPC without losing the advantages of the HPC / CE operating system ;) as it does have a lot of advantages i wouldn't want to lose!!
maybe they could make a compatibility mode like thingie in which you can run pocketpc apps...

only problem would be then DLL h*e*ll, meaning ce.net 4.2 already uses another version of the core pocketpc gui dll, aygshell.dll.
older versions of ce and hpc platforms do not have aygshell, only a different version for MFC (mfcce300 and olece300) etc...
this could be overcome somehow, i can think of a few ideas but i'm no programmer lol

to the original question, ppc programs will almost never run by default because almost all of them call aygshell.dll, and anything lower than ce.net 4.2 won't have it. even ce.net 4.2 has only a different version of it which is not fully compatible with ppc aygshell.
of course with the dummy / stub dll's you can get a lot of ppc programs to work. if someone (MS :P ) would make the fully compatible versions of them we hpc users would not have almost any problems... woow.

btw, the different resolution doesn't really prevent the ppc apps from running, they will run either in full screen (woo hoo) or in qvga. (then a hvga hpc may have problems with invisible menus at the bottom but that usually can be solved)

[kumarsps]

One question I have is - if I have a device that came with Windows CE 4.2 ("Windows CE .NET"), on which I've managed to install some of my favorite PPC applications (my trusty FlexWallet, which I bought like, 2 years ago when we had the promotion on here), and even my AvantGo client installed fine (and syncs fine) - so is it possible to copy my Pocket Outlook, or Calendar programs from my PPC (PPC 2002) to my WinCE 4.2 device and run them there?

The resolution is the same - my WinCE device is an Axia A108 phone, with 240x320, and a 266 MHz Freescale (ARM) chip, and even my trusty WIS-bar installed and runs (although i uninstalled it because the icons show up at the bottom, half-way off the screen...)

The Axia did not come bundled with Pocket Outlook (email, calendar, tasks), but instead their own crappy versions. I have an iPaq 1910 which is about ready for retirement (the battery is pretty much gone, and so I won't be using it anymore), so if it's legal, I'd like to copy some of my bought-and-paid-for apps (like Pocket Outlook) over from the old iPaq to my Axia, and use them rather then the wanna-be apps that Oswin included with the phone.

*whew*

Does anybody know of a way to copy addrbook.exe, calendar.exe, etc, from my iPaq ROM over to my PC? I know it's possible, but I can't find a utility to let me do this. hmmmm

Hi Kirkaiya,

Did u manage to sync MS OUtloook in PC with your AXIA A108... if so, how? I too own a A108 - and looking for a best method to SYNC... :)