New PocketTV much faster!

[The PocketTV Team]

We have implemented a new fast stretching routine in PocketTV, which improves the overall performances (i.e. fps) up to 300% in some cases.

On devices that have the ATI Imageon 3200-series (like the Toshiba e800 series), this optimization is not useful, since the ATI chip provides much better stretching performances. So if you have a Toshiba e800 series, no need to read further!

But on most other devices, especially the new VGA devices that do not have the ATI chip, it should increase the performances very significantly.

Our new optimization is used when you play video with "Option > Size > Fit Screen" (i.e. strech to fit the display area), in either normal or Fullscreen mode, and when "Option > Fast Video" is selected (and "Option > Use ATI" is not selected).

Until now, when you selected "Option > Size > Fit Screen", PocketTV was using the GDI stretching routine, even if "Option > Fast Video" was selected. But on some devices, the GDI stretching routine est extremely slow, due to poor optimization in the OEM's video driver.

If you are interested to try it before we release it officially, please download and install PocketTV Classic 0.14.13 from http://pockettv.com/bin/PocketTVSetup-0.14.13.exe . If you have an earlier version of PocketTV installed and are not familiar with the upgrade process, please read the upgrade instructions (http://www.pockettv.com/release-notes.html).

To test the improvement, compare the fps you get with, both in Portrait and Fullscreen. In both tests below, "Options > Size > Fit Screen" must be selected.

Test 1: Performance using the old GDI streching routine (used in previous versions of PocketTV). For this, you should DE-SELECT "Option > Fast Video". Look at the fps. When doing the test in Fullscreen, fps can be seen after pausing (RIGHT D-pad key) and returning to normal mode (tapping on the screen).

Test 2: Performance using the new optimized streching routine. For this, you should SELECT "Option > Fast Video". Look at the fps. When doing the test in Fullscreen, fps can be seen after pausing (RIGHT D-pad key) and returning to normal mode (tapping on the screen).

In most cases, the fps will more than double in Test 2 (compared to Test 1). Naturally, you will still get better performances when selecting "Option > Size > Nominal (fast)", but often this causes the video to either be cropped or appear too small.

Please report your observations in this thread! (please indicate your device make and model).

If you don't have suitable mpeg files for testing, can use torme.mpg (http://www.pockettv.com/mpg/torme.mpg) or other test streams located at www.pockettv.com/mpg . Don't use a QVGA-resolution stream if you intend to test on a QVGA device, since it would not require stretching in Fullscreen!

[Pat Logsdon]

Moved to Announcements forum.

[The PocketTV Team]

Thanks, but we need beta-testers, and since almost no-one reads the Announcement forum, this does not help us.

Remember, PocketTV Classic is free, and it it only with the help of beta-testers that we can improve it. This was not an announcement (since we have not yet released our new version officially), be rather a request for beta-testers, to validate it.

[Janak Parekh]

In general, you should submit it as news then... we can do a call for beta testers on the frontpage. In this case, I'll post.

--janak

[The PocketTV Team]

In general, you should submit it as news then... we can do a call for beta testers on the frontpage. In this case, I'll post.

--janak
That's all right... no problem.

We are waiting from positive feedback from beta-testers before we release our new version officially.

In case it breaks on some devices, we'd like to know before we release it!

[bluevolume]

I just tested this on my Axim X30 -- here's what I found:

I have had a lot of problems with PocketTV (version 12) on my X30. The player just doesn't respond properly and locks up all the time. I was very disappointed in the frame rates I was getting too, since most everything else screams on this machine.

In testing this new 13 version, I'm impressed. Aside from the improvements in frame rates, the program just works better. Were there more changes made than just the 'fit to screen' algorithm? Did you recompile with 2003SE compatibility (I didn't get the "this program may not work..." popup when I installed this time)?

In playing some small mpgs I had on my Axim, I found that this new version plays most everything in real-time (around 30fps) both windowed and full-screen. These same videos would get around 15 - 22 fps with the prior version. I tried the 'torme' video only on the new version, and got the same 30fps throughout.

This looks like a huge improvement, especially on the X30. One suggestion though -- there are a lot of mpgs that PocketTV cannot play (things downloaded from a ReplayTV or the ATI All-In-Wonder) and trying to play them causes some very wierd and annoying problems. Is there a way for PocketTV to look for a recognized codec before trying to play the video?

Blue

[powerbook17]

What does this program do, you watch tv on you ppc?

[KayMan2k]

What does this program do, you watch tv on you ppc?

It plays MPEG-1 files on your PPC. WMP does not do this and PocketMVP does not do this well.

[KayMan2k]

Device: iPaq 5555
MPG Clip: ipaq.mpg (240x176)
* I did not have any test MPGs of my own and this was one of the only clips from the website that was not already QVGA size (I have a QVGA device).
Audio: Stereo - High

Overall, 'Fast Video' improved my FPS by 0.3. The actual FPS varied throughout the sections of the video. The framerate also appeared to be the same in portrait and landscape mode. During playback in all modes framerate was either at or only 0.5 fps below the target of 25. Do you have a 30fps higher quality test MPG to use?

It certainly seems better than versions I have used in the past and observed no vertical tearing in either mode... very impressive.

[timmer]

What is the point in playing mpeg1 on a PPC. File size is huge and storage is limited. Mpeg4 is far more logical for the PPC.

[The PocketTV Team]

I have had a lot of problems with PocketTV (version 12) on my X30. The player just doesn't respond properly and locks up all the time. I was very disappointed in the frame rates I was getting too, since most everything else screams on this machine.

In testing this new 13 version, I'm impressed. Aside from the improvements in frame rates, the program just works better. Were there more changes made than just the 'fit to screen' algorithm? Did you recompile with 2003SE compatibility (I didn't get the "this program may not work..." popup when I installed this time)?

The changes that we made are documented in our release notes at www.pockettv.com/release-notes.html . There has been a few other improvements and optimizations, besides the stretching.

Ealier versions of PocketTV (prior to 0.14.4) did not work well on some Pocket PC 2003 Second Edition devices, including the x30. So what you say is not surprising.

This looks like a huge improvement, especially on the X30. One suggestion though -- there are a lot of mpgs that PocketTV cannot play (things downloaded from a ReplayTV or the ATI All-In-Wonder) and trying to play them causes some very wierd and annoying problems. Is there a way for PocketTV to look for a recognized codec before trying to play the video?

Thanks for the feedback. Nice to hear the most files can now play at nominal fps on the x30. That's what we wanted :).

No, PocketTV does not look for any particular codec. It should be able to play any MPEG-1 file, as long as it is syntactically correct, and uses MPEG audio layer 1 or 2 (MP3 = layer 3 is not allowed in MPEG-1 movie files).

The MPEG files that PocketTV cannot play are generally not MPEG-1 movie files, aven though they have been given the .mpg or .mpeg extension. Maybe they are MPEG-2 files (that's probably the case with ReplayTV). In that case, you need to convert them to MPEG-1.

On file sharing / P2P networks, many files have incorrect extensions, and sometimes, files are encoded with an illegal codec combination (e.g. MPEG-1 video with MP3 audio).

PocketTV can only play MPEG-1 movie files that correct MPEG-1 movie files, i.e. MPEG-1 video elementary stream or MPEG-1 system stream containing MPEG-1 video and MPEG-1 audio (layer 1 or 2).

If you have a compliant MPEG-1 file that PocketTV cannot play, please let us know and send us the file.

[The PocketTV Team]

What is the point in playing mpeg1 on a PPC. File size is huge and storage is limited. Mpeg4 is far more logical for the PPC.
MPEG-1 file size is not that huge, if you select the right bitrate. For the same quality as MPEG-4, MPEG-1 files are 1.5 to 2 times larger than MPEG-4.

See the Simple Guide for making MPEG files optimized for Pocket PC or Smartphone (http://forum.pocketmovies.net/viewtopic.php?p=3415#3415).

Many people still use MPEG-1 because it is easier to decode, so it works better on slower devices. 4 GB Microdrives are only $250 on ebay, so storage space is not really an issue :)

[timmer]

MPEG-1 file size is not that huge, if you select the right bitrate. For the same quality as MPEG-4, MPEG-1 files are 1.5 to 2 times larger than MPEG-4.

See the Simple Guide for making MPEG files optimized for Pocket PC or Smartphone (http://forum.pocketmovies.net/viewtopic.php?p=3415#3415).

Many people still use MPEG-1 because it is easier to decode, so it works better on slower devices. 4 GB Microdrives are only $250 on ebay, so storage space is not really an issue :)

Err, but instead you get twice as much on that 4gb microdrive or encode at even higher bitrate. No brainer really. More space for your money.

As for saying mpeg1 files are only 1.5 to 2 times larger than mpeg4. Thanks for backing up my argument for me ;) Exactly my point - twice as large meaning absolutely pointless exercise in encoding in mpeg1 for the PPC.

[The PocketTV Team]

As for saying mpeg1 files are only 1.5 to 2 times larger than mpeg4. Thanks for backing up my argument for me ;) Exactly my point - twice as large meaning absolutely pointless exercise in encoding in mpeg1 for the PPC.
There are several reason why some people prefer to use MPEG-1.

One is that it requires much less CPU power and complexity to playback (about 4 times less than MPEG-4), so MPEG-1 works better on slower devices.

Another one is that there is only one flavor of MPEG-1, while there are many incompatible variant of MPEG-4 (different profiles).

Just the same way people still use JPEG for images (JPEG is even older and more archaic than MPEG-1!), while today there are are much more efficient image compression formats. Don't you still use JPEG ?

We never said that MPEG-1 was the most efficient, state of the art video compression format. It used to be that about 13 years ago. But we say that MPEG-1 is still very useful, and we know that many people still use it, even though there are much more compression-efficient video formats (e.g. H.264).

[timmer]

Point taken. I dont see the point of it myself but each to their own.

[The PocketTV Team]

Point taken. I dont see the point of it myself but each to their own.
:) - and stop using those JPEG files, they are soooo big and so inefficient!

[The PocketTV Team]

Device: iPaq 5555
MPG Clip: ipaq.mpg (240x176)
* I did not have any test MPGs of my own and this was one of the only clips from the website that was not already QVGA size (I have a QVGA device).
Audio: Stereo - High

Overall, 'Fast Video' improved my FPS by 0.3. The actual FPS varied throughout the sections of the video. The framerate also appeared to be the same in portrait and landscape mode. During playback in all modes framerate was either at or only 0.5 fps below the target of 25. Do you have a 30fps higher quality test MPG to use?

It certainly seems better than versions I have used in the past and observed no vertical tearing in either mode... very impressive.
Can you redo the test with a higher-resolution stream, such as http://www.pockettv.com/mpg/torme.mpg ?

The stream that you have used is too small resolution and it should already play close to nominal fps with the older versions of PocketTV on the iPaq 5555. The variations in fps that you have observed are therefore not significant, and they occur naturally.

With the higher resolution file, you should see much a more significant improvement.

[Darius Wey]

To The PocketTV Team...

Are you looking to support MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 in future releases? Being able to play these files would be great! :D

[The PocketTV Team]

To The PocketTV Team...

Are you looking to support MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 in future releases? Being able to play these files would be great! :D
MPEG-2 (e.g. DVD) is designed for interlaced display (i.e. TV). Mobile devices have progressive display. The output video can be converted from interlaced to progressive, but this requires a significant amount of processing, and current and even next generation mobile devices do not have the processing power required. Also, MPEG-2 streams are generally encoded at very high resolution, even larger than VGA (e.g. 720x480 or 720x576) and at very high bitrate (5-7 Mbit/sec), and the processing power required to decode this is much more than mobile devices can do today, and even tomorrow.

So MPEG-2 is not something we are contemplating today.

If you want MPEG-4, there are several very good applications that support various flavors or profiles of MPEG-4, like DivX. Try Betaplayer.

[Darius Wey]

To The PocketTV Team...

Are you looking to support MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 in future releases? Being able to play these files would be great! :D
MPEG-2 (e.g. DVD) is designed for interlaced display (i.e. TV). Mobile devices have progressive display. The output video can be converted from interlaced to progressive, but this requires a significant amount of processing, and current and even next generation mobile devices do not have the processing power required. Also, MPEG-2 streams are generally encoded at very high resolution, even larger than VGA (e.g. 720x480 or 720x576) and at very high bitrate (5-7 Mbit/sec), and the processing power required to decode this is much more than mobile devices can do today, and even tomorrow.

So MPEG-2 is not something we are contemplating today.

If you want MPEG-4, there are several very good applications that support various flavors or profiles of MPEG-4, like DivX. Try Betaplayer.

Thanks for the reply. Yep, I've been using BetaPlayer for a while now and am happy for its support for DivX files. The reason why I was querying the ability of PocketTV to support MPEG-2 is because I recently had a video that I edited encoded to MPEG-2 with no interlacing (i.e. progressive). So assuming you already have an MPEG-2 file in progressive display, shouldn't PPCs be able to handle it well enough? I understand the part where you talk about high resolution and high bitrate files, but assuming you have an MPEG-2 file at 320x240 and at an average bitrate that could be handled by PPCs, would it still be a struggle then for PPCs to playback such a file? What I'm doing now is I'm converting any MPEG-2s I wish to watch into DivX format for playback onto Pocket PC. Despite its larger file size, it'd just be nice to have MPEG-2 support to save the hassle of re-encoding to DivX.

Thanks! :D

[The PocketTV Team]

> assuming you have an MPEG-2 file at 320x240

Yes, but then it does not make much sens to use MPEG-2 for a progressive file encoded at this resolution.

MPEG-1 will be exactly as efficient as MPEG-2 in that case (in fact a bit more, with less overhead).

In fact, MPEG-1 is exactly as efficient as MPEG-2 when coding progressive. The only difference major between MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 is with coding of interlaced, and MPEG-2 has a more complex transport layer that allows encryption.

[Darius Wey]

Ah I see. Thanks.

I've never liked interlacing...it always makes half of my renders appear jagged when there's fast motion in the video. :p