The end of and era

[Stormswift]

I admit it. I got most of my e-books from Russian forums :twisted: (I am bilingual so it did not matter which language a particular book was in).

They had e-libraries filled with books. Free. Books scanned in and converted into e-book formats by voluntees. ....Read all you want. Now Mr Putin and his Parlament decided to put an end to it. They all of sudden remembered something or rather about intellectual property and such other noncense adn hatched out a law prohibiting existance of those libraries. So I am now downloading as fast as I can everything I can because it may not be out there to enjoy much longer :-(.

This is a tragedy. I have not seen the inside of the library in 3 years since I owned my Pocket PC and I have not held a hardcover book in as that long even thoug I read more in the past 3 years then I have in the ten years before that. This is painfull. I think I am going to cry. This means I will have to either shell out the $$$$ or get in the car like all the other technologically disadvantaged folks and drive to the library and carry those heavy things back and forth to my car....

:cry: :cry: This is paradise lost....

[dean_shan]

Where all your books in Russian?

[Stormswift]

Yes, they were in Russian (Many formated to e-books with permissions from the authors or at least without objections from the authors...guess it was like free advertising) but some were translations of foreign authors, and many better then official translations . Either folks there have too much time on their hands or they are really dedicated....

They actually do not like Microsoft reader over there and prefer to Use Hallie reader which can open .rar and use formats other then what MS Reader uses

[dean_shan]

Doesn't surprise me that they hate MS Reader, a lot of people do.

[Ed Hansberry]

yeah. Terrible shame you'll actually have to pey for your books. :|

[PetiteFlower]

Well, the idea that books should be free is proliferated by the existence of libraries the same way that the idea that music should be free is proliferated by the radio. And while I do totally understand and agree that authors and musicians, and even publishing/record companies, deserve to make money, I also understand the idea behind "I downloaded it because I was just going to get it from the library/tape it off the radio anyway, I wouldn't have bought it." Which is why I don't download entire albums unless I already own them(I've downloaded stuff I own on tape so I could transfer it to CD) but I have no problem downloading popular singles that I've heard on the radio, or books I already own on paper or would have borrowed from a friend or the library.

Incidentally I ALSO have no problem downloading books that I WOULD be willing to pay for but are not available as legal ebooks.

I really wish there was a legal e-library out there where you could dl books that would expire after a certain amount of time....maybe with an option to buy the book if you want after the time is up. That would be so cool!

[dean_shan]

Incidentally I ALSO have no problem downloading books that I WOULD be willing to pay for but are not available as legal ebooks.

I do that with music. There is so much older stuff that you simpy cannot find unless your scour old shops that sell records.

[dh]

Incidentally I ALSO have no problem downloading books that I WOULD be willing to pay for but are not available as legal ebooks.
I'm exactly the same. I tried for ages to find Tolkien's books in eBook format so I could buy them but without success. I already have a couple of sets of print editions, so I just went and found them. (Actually they were hosted on the old Sprinklerhead PPC site - I used to like that site, is Jerimiah still around?).

Same with some others, Steinbeck's books are hard to find in legal eBook formats so you have to just go and get those as well.

If the publishers don't want to make electronic editions available they just lose my business. I read every day so I get through a lot of books, if they don't want my money that's their problem.

As it happens, many of the modern writers I like, George Martin, Robin Hobb, Neal Stephenson etc., do have their work available so I can purchase it. Just have to do a bit of format switching to read on my Zaurus. :D

By the way, I really wish GRRM would get a move on and finish A Feast for Crows!

[Jereboam]

By the way, I really wish GRRM would get a move on and finish A Feast for Crows!

Oh yeah. Come on George!!!!!!!!

And to the original poster - you're a thief. Get a life and a conscience and pay for the material you are "downloading as fast as you can". You may have been somewhat justified had you had to overcome a genuine language barrier but you freely admit you are bilingual...

Fact shto Putin na konets reshil obnovit stariy Sovietski zakonodatalstvo ni "tragedy". Khotite demokrati? Vi dolzhni za etot platit.

J'bm

[Stormswift]

"And to the original poster - you're a thief. Get a life and a conscience and pay for the material you are "downloading as fast as you can". You may have been somewhat justified had you had to overcome a genuine language barrier but you freely admit you are bilingual...

Fact shto Putin na konets reshil obnovit stariy Sovietski zakonodatalstvo ni "tragedy". Khotite demokrati? Vi dolzhni za etot platit."
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Thats all nice, but I would find it hard to believe that you never downloaded music from US authors in Russia via "oslik"/ donkey when you DO know it IS copyrighted or worst you buy a CD on the street in a 3rd world country and it is rediculously cheap and you DO know it is a bootleg. How about running a bootleg WIN on your box in your other life in Moscow? I bet you did not re-format your drive every time you used your computer? Ever borrowed a DVD from a friend who owned it rather then going to the nearest store and buying it or paying to rent it?

Most of the books I get are not available in e-book format from amazone .com or in Russia for that matter. When they do become available and there is a safe way to purchace them using a credit card - let me know. Using Russian on-line book stores is NOT an option and libraries in US do not carry a rich variety of literature in Russian.

Peopele stay bilingual as long as they practice both languages. If they stop using one of the languages it will eventually be gone from them. Reading is a good way to keep up the language skills.

Since US has always been on a receiving end of copyright violations by contries from former Soviet block, lets not name call, shell we?

[Jereboam]

Thats all nice, but I would find it hard to believe that you never downloaded music from US authors in Russia via "oslik"/ donkey when you DO know it IS copyrighted or worst you buy a CD on the street in a 3rd world country and it is rediculously cheap and you DO know it is a bootleg.

Downloaded music is often not very well encoded and tagged. I prefer to do my own encoding and tagging, and I prefer higher bitrates as I spent some of my hard earned cash on several sets of audiophile quality headphones from Sennheiser and Etymotic. Plus why bother with filesharing on dialup? If you say you have a reliable 56k connection from the typical telephone exchange in Russia and you're the only person I know who does. And if you could have afforded broadband back then, you could damn well have afforded to buy books and music rather than steal it.

And yes I do have bootleg CD's in my collection from trips to the Gorbushka. The last one I bought was many moons ago, when I still didn't realise that what I was doing was morally reprehensible and was, in fact, stealing. Call me reformed if you like.

How about running a bootleg WIN on your box in your other life in Moscow? I bet you did not re-format your drive every time you used your computer? Ever borrowed a DVD from a friend who owned it rather then going to the nearest store and buying it or paying to rent it?

I build my own PC's, and by the time I have spent almost $2000 on the hardware spending another few hundred on a genuine copy of XP wasn't really an issue for me. I ordered it from Amazon in the UK along with Office, Norton Antivirus and all of my games, because I like the printed English-language manuals that come with my particular love, flight sims.

And don't confuse borrwing something that has been bought and paid for with buying a "ridiculously cheap" bootleg. It's just not the same, mate.

Most of the books I get are not available in e-book format from amazone .com or in Russia for that matter. When they do become available and there is a safe way to purchace them using a credit card - let me know. Using Russian on-line book stores is NOT an option and libraries in US do not carry a rich variety of literature in Russian.

Well it just goes to show how little you have tried to look for alternatives. Amazon is not the only ebook vendor in the world, ereader.com and fictionwise.com are two, and they accept credit cards, and they are perfectly safe, with a much better range of books. In fact, this is one of the very reasons I love ebooks so much...I could be in Russia and still buy and read the latest bestsellers. And I found English-language bookshops locally, and I used Amazon again to order the books I couldn't find as above.

Peopele stay bilingual as long as they practice both languages. If they stop using one of the languages it will eventually be gone from them. Reading is a good way to keep up the language skills.

I speak fluent Russian, and often read Russian language news sites, forums and I - gasp - actually speak to people. Are you telling me you are the the only Russian speaker where you live? I think not. And you are a native speaker, which makes your argument less valid. I doubt you will ever not be able to speak Russian.

Since US has always been on a receiving end of copyright violations by contries from former Soviet block, lets not name call, shell we?

Sorry I don't get this. What are you trying to say? That's it is OK in Russia because others do it too? That's like saying I was only following orders at Nuremberg - it holds no water.

J'bm

[Stormswift]

Ah...., one of the "reformies"..... Now the attitude makes sence.

All of your accomplishments are commendable. You are great . We all got it :wink:
By the way, I ran into ex-nicotine user recently at a friends party. He made it miserable for everyone ,including people like me who did not smoke. All he had to do was leave if he did not like the "atmosphere"

I am so glad that you'we "seen the light" and are out there converting the rest of us "heathens" to the path of syber righheousness

And if you are "native Russian speaker" then you should know that e-books in Russian language are not easily available. That is why there are so many privately converted books out there. The reason there are so few official ones is because there is a very small number of people who can afford Pocket-sized devices and consequently few have use for e-books. It is not cost-effective for the publishers to offer books in e-format. So folks do it themselves and share with others. People are not running around, breaking "codes" and downloading ebooks created and sold by some publishing company.
I like the suggestion of e-libraries where you download a book free of charge and can use it for a limited period of time, just like in a real library. Then a question of copyright would not come up because the book is not technically saved permanently. If someone wants to own it, they could go to the on-line store pay and download a key-license. That would solve all of the problems and fingerpointing. I would be even willing to pay a small yearly subscription fee for this type of service

[Jereboam]

Yawn. Justify it and slander me as much as you like. It bounces off and doesn't change the facts here.

I like the suggestion of e-libraries

Yes well again you show your ignorance of the options. A Fictiowise subscription gives you this. If less people stole or scanned books perhaps it would be more widespread.

Paka.

[Stormswift]

Fictionwise offers ZERO of what I look for
I did not see any books there offered in Russian language(I want to read books in RUSSIAN, not an English translation from Russian). Same for Amazon. May be you can put a link to the sites where you saw a "for fee equivalent" of Russin on- line libraries, or at least where they sell current non-classic e-books in Russian and where the site is NOT in Russia (aka where a credit card purchase can be safely made)? I am always open to suggestions and new things. I would very much appreciate the information

As for "slander", do not make me laugh. You started your first post with name calling, then you went on to admit that you own anothorized music, etc
The topic is about books, I never downloaded music nor do I own anything that is remotely a bootleg CD. So far In Russia they have not requested the shutdown of the libraries, two major publishing houses in responce offered free e-fooks for download and I am waiting to see if indeed they proceed with that rulling. If they do, then I will become a complient citizen.

Lets be adults (if you are one) and not get into this...
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"Plus why bother with filesharing on dialup? If you say you have a reliable 56k connection from the typical telephone exchange in Russia and you're the only person I know who does. And if you could have afforded broadband back then, you could damn well have afforded to buy books and music rather than steal it. "
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What made you think I am in Russia :devilboy: ? And "Back then" in my case there was no Internet, dialup and certainly no broadband, ANYWHERE, not just Russia, LOL. Come to think of it, The Apple guys were probably still in school and your average computer occupied an entire room. There were no monitors and keyboards was actually a keypunch machine....You know? Those little square holes on the card 1000101000010
And finally, not to resort to name calling, but I detect just a smidgeon of chavinism, pal ROFL

[Kati Compton]

Enough. Any more posts with personal insults, and I will lock the thread and move it to HOFS.

[Jereboam]

I'd point out that I am not the one who has resorted to personal insult, direct or by way of snide remarks in brackets or quotation marks - to which I have chosen not to respond in a like manner.

It's the typical defensive reaction of somebody who engages in copyright theft and is comfortable with it for a number of reasons that they hold fast to despite any offered debate to the contrary.

I'm happy for you to lock the thread, Kati - it's clearly going nowhere.

It's a shame as most ebook threads are very constructive. I shan't waste my time with this one anymore. Each to their own as their conscience dictates.

J'bm

[Kati Compton]

My warning was a general comment to everyone posting in the thread.

And we don't lock threads because of disagreements. Otherwise there'd be a lot more locked threads than there are now.

If you need to get away from the thread, stop reading it. Though I know from personal experience that walking away from an argument is difficult. ;)

[Gee Mont]

Incidentally I ALSO have no problem downloading books that I WOULD be willing to pay for but are not available as legal ebooks.


Some weeks ago, our dearly beloved President, W., made an off-the-cuff comment, and I paraphrase, “The rich need taxes breaks, otherwise they’d just cheat on their taxes.”

Sounds too me like the philosophy behind each statement is essentially the same:


The Rich want tax breaks = Readers want ebooks.
If the Rich don’t get legal tax breaks, they’ll pay less tax by cheating = If Readers don’t get legal ebooks, they take illegal copies.


I believe this is a morally bankrupt philosophy. Just because you want something does justify taking it when legal options aren’t available.


Well, the idea that books should be free is proliferated by the existence of libraries the same way that the idea that music should be free is proliferated by the radio.


If you want to read free books, then, go to the library. You’ll have to live with the options the library offers for now. Some libraries (http://www.pwcgov.org/library/elecres/ebook.htm) do offer some ebooks. I’ve never used it because I don’t allow cookies or JavaScript, but the resources are there for folks with library cards.

Let’s put it another way. Suppose the library doesn’t offer a title you want. Would it then be okay to steal a copy from Borders? Or download an unauthorized copy?

[Janak Parekh]

Some weeks ago, our dearly beloved President, W., made an off-the-cuff comment, and I paraphrase, “The rich need taxes breaks, otherwise they’d just cheat on their taxes.”
I sort of understand your analogy, but please, let's keep politics out of it, otherwise the thread will be locked even faster.

--janak

[Gee Mont]

I sort of understand your analogy, but please, let's keep politics out of it, otherwise the thread will be locked even faster.


My comment was not intended as a political statement and should in no way be construed as an endorsement or indictment. I think it is possible to compare the analogy without partisanship.

Over lunch I thought about how some folk believe it is okay to download commercial copy ebooks without paying for them if a copy of the book was legally purchased elsewhere. If someone bought a legal copy of an ebook from Fictionwise or Amazon, I wonder how many (if any) would be so nonchalant as to justify taking a copy from Borders without paying because they own the ebook

[Jereboam]

I could get closer to understanding if you used the fair use backup analogy here...ie if I had a copy of the book in print, would I be justified in downloading an illicit e-book version of it?

I think yes, if it was generated by, as mentioned somewhere above, volunteers...if it was somebody's commercial enterprise, ie let's say it was a Peanut Press version someone had somehow cracked or de-DRM'ed...no.

That's a definite grey area for me.

J'bm

[kidmd]

I am not sure that your idea holds water so to speak. If you already own an ebook that was legally purchased, then no you should not feel intitled to walk into Borders, etc. and "procure" a free copy of the paper version. But this is not because you don't have a right to own a copy of the book, but because you would be stealing the paper it was printed on from the bookstore. In the reverse situation, you are not stealing anything - you own both the words and the paper. When you then download an illict copy, you are not stealing. At least this is true in a moral sense, whatever the legal issues may be. This is also assuming that you don't then distribute the book. I do realize that this is a gray area for many of us. I have many ebooks in my collection, and I have downloaded some from P2P sources. However I also have the majority of these books in paper format that I have purchased over the years. Most of the others are public domain ebooks. The few that don't fit into these categories are books that were downloaded as part of large zip files containing many books, and I just haven't taken the time to go through them.

Overall, the best analogy to use would be going to the used bookstore and buying a paperback copy of a book that you already own. Sure, the used bookstore makes money, but the author and publisher don't. And if you buy a book that you don't already own in the used bookstore, you are "cheating" the author and publisher just as much, even though this is technically legal. I think that each of us has to arrive at our own compromise between morals and legality in these gray areas.