BargainPDA Slams The iPAQ rz1715

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2168' target='_blank'>http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2168</a><br /><br /></div><i>"In truth, there's nothing massively defective about the iPaq rz1715 itself, aside from a really bad name and some questionable design choices. It's very low end, but sometimes you need very low-end hardware. Priced at $150, the 1715 would make a decent entry-level PocketPC for bringing in the Zire customers--people who don't care to spend a lot, and only want the basics. But there's the crux of the matter. It isn't priced at $150. It's priced at $280, an upper-midrange price point for digging-under-the-barrel hardware. For a lot less than the 1715, you could buy an Axim X30 312 MHz combo that would be faster, have more memory, better build quality, removable battery, and dual wireless. And for the same or a little more than the 1715, you could get a high-end X30 that is much faster than the 1715 in addition to everything else. Trying to sell the rz1715 for $280 is the kind of craziness that usually requires illegal narcotics, and lots of them. It isn't worth it."</i><br /><br />Oof. 8O Couple that with the only pro they list, <i>"Makes a great way to identify stupid rich people"</i>, and the consensus certainly seems to be that HP has built a seriously overpriced Zire-equivalent Pocket PC. I'd <b>love</b> to see such a device like this near the $150 price range, but I'm afraid I have to largely agree with BargainPDA's conclusions based on the device as it stands now. If you ever want to read a smackdown, check this review out.

[arnage2]

its all funny because its true

[Jonathan1]

:( I wish I could laugh at this smackdown. But the fact of the matter is someone at HP has royally screwed up on this entire line in one form or another and its making this fall's Pocket PC lineup look a bit sad. (We'll see what Asus has to offer come X-Mas :roll: ) Again I will suggest the only reason we are seeing the 1715 at the price its currently at is because its closest real competition, Dell, is not in retail stores. No brick in mortar presence, IMHO, = few worries for HP.
Hmmm that is a good question. Not to get to far off topic but does anyone know what the ratio is for online vs. retail store sales?

Oh and my fav quote from the article:

I'll give it this, it is feather light, just shy of four and a quarter ounces, but I find it hard to get excited about it being tiny and useless. :roll: Sad really.

[entropy1980]

I will personally throw rocks and large blunt objects at anyone who buys one of these, heck if I see any of you even pick one up on display at Circuit City I will have you arrested for indecent exposure!! :lol:

[Sven Johannsen]

"Makes a great way to identify stupid rich people".

Well maybe that is the whole point. Every company needs some swag they can throw into the gift basket at the Academy Awards and such. There is the off chance that some celeb might be caught holdng it. Listing it at $280 ups that tax write off ;)

[Jorlin]

its all funny because its true

Hmmm... It would be if it was not...

To be honest, I am afraid that there really will be people who are buying this device because they simply do not know better.

If you are buying an HP you are expecting a certain standard of quality - like buying a Sony or a BMW. With this device they simply failed to reach to their minimum standard... or has HP lowered it.

[arnage2]

good point. someone is gonna buy it. get pissed, then never buy another ppc again

[bjornkeizers]

*cringe* You rarely see a beating like that outside a boxing ring. Well deserved. HP goes KO in round one.

[felixdd]

Hopefully HP doesn't judge their upcoming sales numbers as a stale market, and then pull a Sony and pull out of the PPC market altogether.

In other words, hopefully HP didn't dig its own grave with this new lineup of PPCs. Frankly, none of the devices in the lineup does it for me, nor does it offer anything more than what my 2215 has right now -- except 2003 SE, which HP has declined to put on the 2215 because it would mean no one would buy their new lineup, because a 2215 with SE will be cheaper and just as powerful.

HP knows this. They know their new lineup sucks. But this is the only thing they can do, this far into the game. &lt;sigh>

[Jonathan1]

good point. someone is gonna buy it. get pissed, then never buy another ppc again

No someone is going to buy it get pissed, return it, go buy something more powerful. Also I was talking to a rep at Best Buy the other day. The is already a rep forming for this device at retail stores. The guy I talked to basically said the thing was junk and wouldn't be recommending it to anyone if possible. I'm a petty person in some ways. I abhor a company who is cheap and maybe I'm off on this but that is how I feel the entire line of HP's Pocket PC's (with the exception, I hope, being the 4705.) is just that…cheap. Consequently I hope at minimum the rz1715 falls flat on its face. HP has been riding high on a crest of success the last few years and, again IMHO, this feels like they are taking that success for granted.

[powder2000]

I laughed when I saw this. I hope HP takes a hit, even if it is bad for the pocket pc market. This device, if by some ungodly way, becomes popular, it will definitely do some damage to the pocket pc name. HP are you there?? are you reading these reviews and comments?

[Jon Westfall]

this has to be the most severe review I've ever read. It was deserved though - much deserved unfortunately. I knew this would happen when HP bought out compaq.
I especially liked his jabs about the name - 100% true.

[Jorlin]

HP has been riding high on a crest of success the last few years and, again IMHO, this feels like they are taking that success for granted.

They did...
I do not hope that they take it for granted. They come up with some very innovative devices.
There are only few outside that might say that the new design is nice or even nicer than what we have seen previously from HP. It is a matter of fact that many of us have expected this design to be continued in the future...
HP simply made the wrong choices. The question is: Why?

After the last two years, I have expected HP to be into the PocketC market. Am I wrong? After these two years, HP has proven that they knew what the PPC customer was looking for. Where has this sense gone?
After the last tow years, almost everyone might consider that a PPC manufacturer might take a look at opinions and expectations that "float" though the PPC community. Didn't HP do that???

I know that PPC manufactures certainly try to gain more of the PDA market by enlarging their portfolio... But the amount of PPC HP is going to offer is more confusing than attracting.

Why? What happened to those at HP who made the decisions in the last two years? Insanity?

Do not get me wrong: I have to admit that the 4700 and the 6300 might be very nice devices - but they are lacking the perfect finish with which the HPs of the last two years came up (style and hardware).

In spring I really thought that the HP 4700 might be my next PPC - but with the upcoming specs and the first photos, I had to turn to another upcoming PPC...

[bjornkeizers]

In spring I really thought that the HP 4700 might be my next PPC - but with the upcoming specs and the first photos, I had to turn to another upcoming PPC...

You know, over the past few months I've been thinking of replacing my year-old 1915 for a newer model. I was hoping that they'd improve the tech, and that i would be able to get a wireless model with 2003 SE for what I paid for my 1915 (180 euro) That doesn't seem unreasonable, right?

Instead, the new low-end device offers less then my 1915 in terms of speed, memory and abilities, and it's 100 euros more expensive.

So now I'm thinking about getting a different model. My only real option would be the 4700 - which will probably be around **750 euro** that's around **$900**

I could also buy a dual wireless Loox 610 for just over 500.... Or a Dell Axim for even less... A friggin' DELL!! I've been a loyal customer of the Ipaq & HP since the first one. 3630, Jornada, 1915. Well, that ends now. Bye Bye HP.

[DaleReeck]

When it came to Pocket PC's, there was a time when HP's name was worth a 25% price bump. But not anymore. Too many other good manufacturers are making good hardware for much cheaper prices.

The only exception seems to be the iPaq 6300 PPC Phone. While it doesn't have the processor or the memory of other top of the line PPC's, it's triple threat wireless makes it's full price of $599 more than reasonable (compared to, say, the $850 XDA II) . Even better at $499 if you get the T-Mobile subsidy.

But the rest of the iPaq line is still way overpriced. The 4700 may be "da bomb", but if it's $600 price range is correct, well, similarly powered machines from other manufacturers will be selling for almost half that. Bad business HP.

[DaleReeck]

[quote=Jorlin]
Bye Bye HP.

Well, for me, not quite yet. The iPaq 6300 Pocket PC phone is still in my future :)

[Tierran]

Well, unlike Palm, which is always there in the PalmOS arena, the PPC market seems to be a rotating cycle of which company is at the top...

Casio, then Compaq, then HP...if HP stumbles Dell has a good chance to grab the PPC market and those guys never let go ;)

[jkendrick]

I wish there was some way to gauge how profitable the different models are for each OEM. My suspicion on the pricing HP chose for this low-end model is that their cost reflects this high price. I'm not sure than any OEM is making a profit on their low-end models and perhaps HP has decided it will either sink or swim at this price.

[James Fee]

I've only seen one positive review on the rz1715. Makes me think more and more that "review" was just kissing ass. :huh:

[SoAlive]

Excellent review! It's nice to see somebody tell it like it is. I sure hope somebody that matters at HP reads it.

I played around with one of these today at CompUSA. It's true: the "feel" is all wrong. Plus, is was way too slow--and I wasn't even playing video.

I've gone through several PocketPCs since the iPAQ 3600 first came out, and this is the first time that a new model line hasn't tempted me to eBay off my current unit. The 2215 was a good idea.

[shawnc]

This guy is great. It's nice to see a review with humor and one that slams an obviously BAD BAD product. It's rare to see a bad review for a PPC on a PDA site. Kudo's to this guy for telling the truth and HP should really be ashamed of themselves.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Well, unlike Palm, which is always there in the PalmOS arena, the PPC market seems to be a rotating cycle of which company is at the top...

Casio, then Compaq, then HP...if HP stumbles Dell has a good chance to grab the PPC market and those guys never let go ;)

Don't count Toshiba out. They have some decent current and future kit out there.......

[Jonathon Watkins]

This guy is great. It's nice to see a review with humor and one that slams an obviously BAD BAD product. It's rare to see a bad review for a PPC on a PDA site. Kudo's to this guy for telling the truth and HP should really be ashamed of themselves.

Very true Shawnc, very true.


"As such, I have of course gone out of my way to offer the rz1715 a fair chance. It still failed miserably." :snipersmile: Owch!

I just love this part of the review:

"If someone you know asked you what you were holding, and you replied "Oh, it's my new aych pea eye-pack are zee seventeen fifteen," they might ask you if you'd suffered a recent head injury."

:rotfl:

[Tierran]

Well, unlike Palm, which is always there in the PalmOS arena, the PPC market seems to be a rotating cycle of which company is at the top...

Casio, then Compaq, then HP...if HP stumbles Dell has a good chance to grab the PPC market and those guys never let go ;)

Don't count Toshiba out. They have some decent current and future kit out there.......

You're right about their PDAs...but there seems to be so much uncertainty about their status of remaining in the market.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Don't count Toshiba out. They have some decent current and future kit out there.......

You're right about their PDAs...but there seems to be so much uncertainty about their status of remaining in the market.

Well, there are always rumours, but the e830 does seem to be on the way (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=270174). Heck, if HP scew up this badly there should be room in the stores for someone who makes a decent PPC for a decent price.

[maximum360]

Well, the word is that Verizon will soon be carrying the XDA III/MDA III. I'd say going with that is probably a better alternative than T-Mobile. T-Mobile may offer better minutes but they’ve still got some work to do as far as coverage (and GPRS speeds are still lackluster, though I’m not sure if this IPAQ is an EDGE device).

Nevertheless, I believe the XDA III supports EVDO speeds and Verizon should be updating their networks soon to support this. I believe so far some parts of CA and DC are covered.

Neither device is any major step forward really. I was really trying to hold out for a VGA device but I may decide to take the plunge with the new device from Verizon. The extra 32 MBs of ROM and better/speedier processor + keyboard & Bluetooth may be enough to draw me in. I currently have an i700 and it seems I’ll have some decisions to make in a few months.

The XDA/MDA IV is however rumored to have BT, WIFI, 128 MB RAM, and best of all a VGA screen.

[Mark Johnson]

Well, there are always rumours, but the e830 does seem to be on the way (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=270174). Heck, if HP scew up this badly there should be room in the stores for someone who makes a decent PPC for a decent price.

Also, I'm starting to wonder how relevant it is for a brand name like Toshiba to be "in the market" or "out of the market" at any given moment. They all (HP, Toshiba, Dell, etc.) are really just periodically "placing an order" for x thousand units of Compal, HTC, or Winstron-developed products.

Toshiba, HP's, and Dell "commitment to the PDA market" may BOTH be zero AND still irrelevant. They only need to "commit to a particular model" and that for only a relatively short period.

Notice how the Toshiba 300/700 series had no relation to the 400/800 series.

[PPCRules]

You have to remember that HP (same with Dell) is just buying these from overseas manufacturers. They probably don't let their engineering or design people be invovled in the selection process. They just get price bids and spec sheets from manufacturers, some accounting person makes some sales assumptions and they just pick the products for certain price points that are supposed to maximize profits. Focus groups are so '90s; they probably don't run the options past any potential customers/end users.

The other possibility is that there just aren't many manufacturers bidding, or they aren't offering many designs. Dell is probably eating up a lot of capacity, and HP is getting what's left over.

[felixdd]

You know...if Asus pushes their A730 into the North American market, and also makes a camera-less variant, they could grab some serious market share off of HP.

As for Dell X30 -- the only things keeping me from that device is the boxy design and the d-pad. CF slot isn't so big a deal since the device has wifi and bluetooth.

As for the A730 though...both wireless and dual slot and VGA. How cool is that? In my books -- very.

[Jonathon Watkins]

You know...if Asus pushes their A730 into the North American market, and also makes a camera-less variant, they could grab some serious market share off of HP.

Agreed, especially the camera-less part. :wink:

[whydidnt]

You have to remember that HP (same with Dell) is just buying these from overseas manufacturers. They probably don't let their engineering or design people be invovled in the selection process. They just get price bids and spec sheets from manufacturers, some accounting person makes some sales assumptions and they just pick the products for certain price points that are supposed to maximize profits. Focus groups are so '90s; they probably don't run the options past any potential customers/end users.


I have to believe that an organization as large as HP is not going to just slap it's logo on this type of technology without having some bit of input on it's design and specs. The OEM's are all competing for this business and are certainly going to listen if HP says I want one with 128 MB ROM and 64 MB RAM, not the other way around. NO way any OEM is going to just release these lastest square boxes on their own, without HP saying, yep that's a design we like and will use. I don't know exactly how this works, but I suspect that HP has a design/marketing team that works with the OEM to create a device that is "HP".

[bedge]

Whydidnt totallly has it right. A PPC OEM would have total control of every part that the contract manufacturer uses. The contract manufacturer just puts the pieces together according to the reference drawings.

HP just stuffed up...

[Macguy59]

I will personally throw rocks and large blunt objects at anyone who buys one of these, heck if I see any of you even pick one up on display at Circuit City I will have you arrested for indecent exposure!! :lol:

Me &lt; - - - hangs head in shame as I was one of those at Circuit City trying it out. I don't disagree with the review.

[Macguy59]

Like your sig Jonathan1 but I would switch the Apple and Linux questions :wink:

[Jeff Song]

I remember last year when the iPAQ 2215 was released. That was the device that got me to switch back from my Sony Clie NX70v back to PPC. Then they announced the iPAQ 4355-and I knew that one way or another I would have it. And i got it-and ever since then, no other device has had me feeling that oh-so-familiar gadget lust. All except for the BenQ P50.

When HP announced their new line of iPAQs, I wsa shocked at how...crappy they were. I mean, none of them is anything special...my 4355-that was special. Oh well, maybe before the year is over, HP will release some new devices that will have the PDA world in a frenzy-and not the kind of frenzy that is out for blood :D

[Macguy59]

I remember last year when the iPAQ 2215 was released. That was the device that got me to switch back from my Sony Clie NX70v back to PPC. Then they announced the iPAQ 4355-and I knew that one way or another I would have it. And i got it-and ever since then, no other device has had me feeling that oh-so-familiar gadget lust. All except for the BenQ P50.

When HP announced their new line of iPAQs, I wsa shocked at how...crappy they were. I mean, none of them is anything special...my 4355-that was special. Oh well, maybe before the year is over, HP will release some new devices that will have the PDA world in a frenzy-and not the kind of frenzy that is out for blood :D

I'm still trying to understand the logic of abandoning the form factor of the 19xx and 4xxx series. Did the business world say they were to sexy and fun to get anything done so let's go back to the brick day's?

[felixdd]

Whydidnt totallly has it right. A PPC OEM would have total control of every part that the contract manufacturer uses. The contract manufacturer just puts the pieces together according to the reference drawings.

HP just stuffed up...

That and it's because HP didn't want to source from HTC, as this new line of PPCs are all designed in-house by HP. Thus the radical deviation from HTC designs.

Obviously though, they didn't learn a thing from HTC. Either that or they weren't really paying attention to the market. In any case, heads will roll at HP for the inevitable failure that will follow....

[Mark Johnson]

its making this fall's Pocket PC lineup look a bit sad.


This brings up an interesting point: just what on earth is the "release cycle" for the PPC now? It used to be very reliably timed with Comdex - rumors a month or so before November, leaked specs/photos a week or two before, then a HUGE announcement and ALL the devices ON DISPLAY at the show.
(Oh yeah, we've got a plan! Get the units in the store for Christmas!)

Then a couple of years ago they "lost focus" and sort-of half-heartedly announced a few months later at CES.
(Well sure, we've still got sort of a plan! Put the units in the store in the dead of winter when... um... the customers won't be distracted by anything else to buy! Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!)

Then a year ago at CES they had nothing (a booth with stale PPC's) and the folks there said "we've moved the release cycle" to the "Dad's and Grads Father's-Day/Graduation/Early-Summer" timeframe.
(Uuh... Well... Um... It's kind like this, we're sort of hoping that lots of kids have enough money lying around to buy their dad a $300 gadget he doesn't understand instead of a $8 necktie. Yeah, that's the plan. Sure it is. This is gonna work great...)

So last summer we saw some new stuff roughly in the summer, but this year we're all scratching our heads wondering if we'll get something cool by Christmas. Did you notice how they've now dragged us through a full-seasonal year!?! Fall-Release (Original Comdex), Winter-Release (Switched to CES), Summer-Release (Father's Day a year ago), and now (we hope) something of some significance will be here by Comdex. Oh wait, gee I seem to remember something important about that... It's coming back to me... There is no Comdex this year!

Has any one of our MVP's talked to Microsoft on this lately? Is there even an "intended" annual cycle anymore (that is just being miserably communicated) or (as I suspect) is there really no "calendar-related strategy" anymore?[/b]

[Janak Parekh]

It used to be very reliably timed with Comdex - rumors a month or so before November, leaked specs/photos a week or two before, then a HUGE announcement and ALL the devices ON DISPLAY at the show.
Well, there's no Comdex now... ;)

Anyway: I don't know if there ever was such a release schedule. Considering there's only been four versions of Pocket PC so far, that's a rather small sample size to infer a pattern. Also, there was no Pocket PC 2001...

--janak

[Mark Johnson]

this new line of PPCs are all designed in-house by HP.

Wow, it makes you really wonder:
Last year the iPaq 1930 was a $275 PPC that was "reasonably worth" $275.
This year, the rz1715 is released as a dumber-cousin that costs $275 and is "reasonably worth" maybe $150. (IMHO)

I, for one, am now thinking that HP has not priced it "high" because they are "trying to make a killing" on a unit that cost them a lot less to procure than the 1930 did. With what you point out Felix, it seems to me that HP very well might be making no more money on this, but by trying to "reinvent the wheel" is learning (the hard way) that they drastically underestimated what it takes to make wheels.

Perhaps "American Made" PPC's are going the way of "American Made" VCR's.

[logo20heli]

That and it's because HP didn't want to source from HTC, as this new line of PPCs are all designed in-house by HP. Thus the radical deviation from HTC designs.

Obviously though, they didn't learn a thing from HTC. Either that or they weren't really paying attention to the market. In any case, heads will roll at HP for the inevitable failure that will follow....
According to the FCC pages that I searched, I think that HTC designed at least the rx3000 series and maybe some of the other new iPAQs. Click on the following link:
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm
and enter NM8 for the grantee code and DF for the product code.

It does look like Compal designed the 6300 though. Use GKR as the grantee code and P5TH6300 as the product code.

[huangzhinong]

Last year the iPaq 1930 was a $275 PPC that was "reasonably worth" $275.

H1930 was never $275. H1930 was $249 before $50 rebate from the first day. (so finally it is $199.99).

[caywen]

This PPC sets lowers the mainstream level of performance in PDA's. Not only do PocketPC authors have to think twice before taking advantage of next-gen PPC speeds, they actually have their CPU budgets *lowered* for their next version of their software. This is, if anyone actually buys this thing.

[Mark Johnson]

Last year the iPaq 1930 was a $275 PPC that was "reasonably worth" $275.

H1930 was never $275. H1930 was $249 before $50 rebate from the first day. (so finally it is $199.99).

Thanks for the correction. It's getting a bit dusty in the back corners of my brain. Not only did I have the price wrong, I didn't remember the rebate at all... :oops:

[mv]

This is no logical at all. I was expecting an upgraded 1940 for the same price (like when they upgraded the 1910 - the 1940 was much better - wi fi was the obvious added thing now) but not a downgrade to... well, less than the 1910, in fact. I´ll keep my 1940 until i´m able to buy an XDA III or BenqP50. No more iPAQ´s for me! Since i bought the 1940, i promised myself not to pay the price of a laptop for a PDA anymore... and i´ll stick to that. I can pay a little higher for a phone/pda combo, but not the cost of a laptop. So if these devices are too expensive, there is always the SE P910... but i hope i can buy the P50.

[epdm]

HP has been riding high on a crest of success the last few years and, again IMHO, this feels like they are taking that success for granted.

[snipped]

HP simply made the wrong choices. The question is: Why?

After the last two years, I have expected HP to be into the PocketC market. Am I wrong? After these two years, HP has proven that they knew what the PPC customer was looking for. Where has this sense gone?
After the last tow years, almost everyone might consider that a PPC manufacturer might take a look at opinions and expectations that "float" though the PPC community. Didn't HP do that???

I know that PPC manufactures certainly try to gain more of the PDA market by enlarging their portfolio... But the amount of PPC HP is going to offer is more confusing than attracting.

Why? What happened to those at HP who made the decisions in the last two years? Insanity?
[snipped]..

The reason is very simple. The Ipaq range is NOT from HP. It's bought from Compaq whom had a real vision with their Ipaq-design. HP just got into it by sheer luck. Their own Jornada line was in itself a mixture of failures, lemons and the occasional good device (plagued by technical problems inherent to other PPC's as well at those times)

What I think is that (at least) the Ipaq 5x00 series was at the time of the buy-out already in a far advanced state and therefore HP just continued this development and got a go with it. The 5500-series was just a small evolutionary step from the 5400. I suspect that after these models the remaining ex-compaq/ipaq engineers were duped so that the HP re-gained total control without ANY (former) compaq-influence of PPC enginering. All the time riding high on the name Ipaq which was created and build by Compaq.

I even suspect that HP in the mean time received propositions from the original manufacturor of the machines (HCP or whats it name again?) whom had experience with compaq designs which led to the current range. Which is technically not so different from the Ipaq-style but esthetically a mixed bag with different styles (unlike compaq's uniform Ipaq-look).

And now... HP's engineers have released probably their own complete design. Which might declare the big gap technically between former ranges (which were quite evolutionary from each other) and the new range. In fact the new range show both a tour-de-force with that titanium VGA-screen model and the stupid turkey with the RZ1715. It's so odd.

As for me, I just obtained an Asus MyPAL 620BT with an GPS module. I found the slow boot-up of SE too cumbersome and since I was fixated on getting a Toshiba and all the stuff around them lately. I decided to take a step back. A cheap Asus now and maybe in a year or two I'll try a new high-end PPC again... if PPC's still excists by then ;-)

Regards,

Manu T

[Kati Compton]

FYI - please try to keep posts more informative than just "HP Sucks!". Posts along those lines that don't have any other "nutritional value" will be deleted. Normally we'd not be that picky, but with the amount of people upset about HP we'd be overloaded with "HP Sucks" posts, which really aren't informative in and of themselves. If you want to complain about HP, go ahead, but try to have something more particular to say. ;) There's also this special thread for complaining about HP:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=30799&highlight=

Thanks!

[chunkymonkey75]

What concerns my so much is the fact that when you go to the store, you mainly only see Palms anymore and now this aweful PocketPC. A terrible example of a Pocket PC device!!

For example:

A new PDA customer goes into his local Best Buy. They have three or four Palm devices, a "beat to hell" 2215 and a 1715. The teenager behind the counter (playing with an MP3 player) tells the customer that you don't want the 2215 because it's last year's model and that the 1715 sucks (for good reason) The customer then looks at the Palm devices and notices that for the same money he can buy a Palm with a camera (which sells devices but they all suck), better quality build, and a nicer screen.

I know that Best Buy is going to sell the high end devices on-line. But the average customer wants the device NOW. If a Dell were sitting next to the rest of the devices, I believe that they would out-sell all the others.

I'm not "anti-Palm", in fact, I recommended a Tungton E to my sister. I wish my 2215 had that beautiful screen! But I would at least like to see the Pocket PC fairly represented in the stores.