Have I said 'goodbye' to my last Pocket PC?

[Skoobouy]

It's possible. Ever since I saw my first HPC in 2000, I've been looking for the One Thing That Does Everything, and I thought I could have it in the form of a Pocket PC. There were times when I was totally dependent on the little thing--news, Bible, PDF, music, PIM, games, books, etc. and so on. But now, after I've returned a defective iPaq 1940, I'm no longer excited by PPCs--not even VGA PPCs.

Maybe just the end of a phase. But I do have some serious complaints about PPCs that ultimately led me to look towards other things for my techno-fix:


Software development is slow, and games are meager. I've defended the PPC as a gaming platform before, but now I think that development is just too slow. One reason I was excited was that lots of people were proclaiming "playable" SNES gaming speeds on 400MHz X-Scales and even the iPaq 1940. Well, I learned the hard way that, well, sometimes people get excited about nothing when they're lost in W?BIC! land. The iPaq 1940 sucks for SNES. It's nowhere even close to a satisfying experience. Nothing plays at the right speed, sound must be throttled until it sounds like static. Sure, it's better than PPC2k2. Big deal! Now maybe the Axim X30 can plays SNES games perfectly; maybe it can't. But then there's native games. The market is terrible! Most of the RPGs are D&D, which I really despise. There are a very small handful of companies making quality games at top-notch prices, and in the end none of these approach the immersion or engrossing quality of the GBA.

Then there's other software. I'm tired of SoftMaker and the fact that they haven't updated their TextMaker past 2002 yet; table functionality is still broken. I'm tired of the fact that, at any given time, half of my PPC apps are only there to make my PPC acceptably usable. I'm tired of Adobe Acrobat Reader for PPC's glitchy reflow functionality and I'm too cheap to buy the alternative reader.

Flash-based memory is becomming obsolete in the face of micro-hard drives. I read a USA Today artice that said that PDAs are being replaced, not only by cell phones, but by MP3 jukeboxes. In fact, it looks a lot like PDAs are getting eaten alive by other machines that do the job several times more satisfyingly. PPCs are do-alls, but their hardware is developing too slow, even to compete with multiple-gadget solutions. Suddenly, convergence is a lot less romantic.

Maybe more later. I have to go.

[Darius Wey]

The dark side is strong in you Skoobouy. But don't give into your anger! :devilboy:

Flash-based memory is becomming obsolete in the face of micro-hard drives. I read a USA Today artice that said that PDAs are being replaced, not only by cell phones, but by MP3 jukeboxes. In fact, it looks a lot like PDAs are getting eaten alive by other machines that do the job several times more satisfyingly. PPCs are do-alls, but their hardware is developing too slow, even to compete with multiple-gadget solutions. Suddenly, convergence is a lot less romantic.

LOL! I can see where you're coming from, but things like this always happen. More and more high-tech devices come out, people start to query the presence of a certain device in the market, hype gets generated, and then it goes away, and the cycle starts all over again. The fact is, there will always be a user base for devices in today's market. Its popularity however, can only be determined by one factor: time

And quite sadly, it's one factor we cannot control. Sure thing...PDAs may become obsolete and replaced, but when will that happen? Time will tell. Whatever you buy in today's high-tech world will become obsolete the next day. It's that simple fact in life now that we have to accept. I've learnt to just put up with it and when it is time to upgrade to a new device, well then I'll assess the situation and decide from there. Who knows what "cool" devices will be out when I next decide to upgrade my PDA?

OK, it's late and I'm just blabbering. Time to go to bed. :roll: Toodles.

[gregmills]

I use PocketSNES on my Toshiba e750. The sound is fine and playing speed seems pretty close to the original. It is a bit of a strain on the device. I can't do it if I have other programs running. But as long I close everything else down I can enjoy SNES games on my PPC. My only complaint is the hardward buttons. They aren't laid out very well for game play.

CF Micro hard drives are available. A PPC could have as much memory as an iPod. But they are still a little too expensive for me.

I would love to have my PPC and cell phone combined into one device. Unfortunately those come in two forms. You can get a pocket computer that when held against your head is barely workable as a cell phone. Or, you can get a cell phone with Palm or WM software packed inside that is barely workable as a computer. I haven't seen one device that succeeds at being both.

Now if we could get that device with a 40 gig micro-drive...

[Robb Bates]

Skoobouy, and correct me if I'm wrong, are you losing interest in your PPC because it doesn't do everything you want to do perfectly?

Two things that you mentioned were games and hard drives. You're right when you said that the GBA does a far better job than the PPC at games. Too true. That's because the GBA was designed from the ground up for games. And an MP3 jukebox is better than a PPC for playing music. Too true again. Same reason... designed from the ground up for playing music.

Now if you use your PPC to play games and play music, you shouldn't expect it to do that as well as a GBA or iPod. I just think it's cool that my PPC CAN play games and CAN play music. But that's not why I got it. Now find a gaming console or jukebox that can let me check email, surf the net, read an ebook, use a scientific calculator, update my web site, instant message, change the tv channel, find driving directions, track my finances, look up a friends phone number, watch movies, and yes, even play games and listen to music. There are some consoles and jukeboxes that can do some of those things, but probably not nearly as well as a PPC.

Now don't think I'm putting down gaming consoles or jukeboxes. I would much rather play a game on my PS2 than on the best desktop computer. Yes, I know, some of you will say that you can do all a PS2 can do on your desktop, but the PS2 is so much easier to handle and FAR, FAR cheaper.

So, my point is, if you are a hard core gamer, buy a gaming console, if you're a hard core music buff, buy a jukebox. And if you're a hard core geek (like me), buy a PPC. And of course, there's nothing stopping you from getting all three. :D

Robb

[Zero101]

I can see where he is coming from though... the general complaint of his post is that Pocket PC's just don't seem to be evolving very fast, especially in the face of cell phones and mp3 players (that seem to be changing at an almost daily pace).

My first "real" PDA was a NEC Mobilepro handtop, probably almost 6 years ago. It had a monochrome display.... but, it could do pretty much everything my current PDA's (an iPaq 3815 and a T-Mobile XDA) can do now.

The mobilepro had a PCMCIA slot for memory, or a modem, or a NIC... whatever. I could surf the web (with a fairly crippled browser), check my mail, do FTP and chat on IRC. I could play some decent games, and there was even a good GB emulator. Plus, it had an awesome keyboard.

From there I got a Palm III... then a Cassiopiea... and now I have my current crop of PDA's I juggle between.

In all that time, there have been some advances, sure. CPU's have gotten much faster. Multimedia has gotten better... thanks to said processors. Devices have become smaller and sleeker. But web browsing is still clunky, memory is still an issue (if my iPod can sport 20gb... why am I still storing everything in my PDA on a 256mb SD card?) and the overall experience still feels... cramped.

Maybe I am just too picky and asking for too much. But I always kind of thought that there would be a PDA by now that used a real hard drive... had a nice screen with landscape as an option (I can't believe it took MS this long).. and still had decent battery life. It's to the point where I am starting to consider a OQO.. :devilboy:


Just my 2¢

[Robb Bates]

I can see where he is coming from though... the general complaint of his post is that Pocket PC's just don't seem to be evolving very fast, especially in the face of cell phones and mp3 players...

True, they don't seem to be evolving very fast when compared to the rate of change of the other devices, but I haven't seen a cell phone or mp3 player that can do all a PPC can do. It's hard to get better when you're already this good. Yes, it could be better, but no matter how good they get a PPC will never be a desktop computer.

...if my iPod can sport 20gb... why am I still storing everything in my PDA on a 256mb SD card?

That is a good question. You could. Obviously the technology is there. I think the reason you can't is because of size. Bigger hard drive means bigger battery. Bigger battery and a bigger hard drive means an even bigger PDA.

Maybe I am just too picky and asking for too much. But I always kind of thought that there would be a PDA by now that used a real hard drive

You're not asking too much. I think the reason there isn't one is that MOST PPC users don't need one. 64MB plus an SD card option is plenty for the average user. The big hard drives in iPods are because that's what most jukebox users need. 200+ CDs isn't unheard of in someone's music library and you'd NEED a big hard drive to fit it all on there. The PPC isn't designed to be a jukebox, so a big hard drive isn't required. If you do need lots of space, you can always use a microdrive. The fact that there is that option is probably why manufacturers haven't started putting them in permanently.

Robb

[dean_shan]

So what device are you going to switch after your PPC breaks?

[stevekc]

I'm awaiting the Archos AV500:


http://www.shanebrinkmandavis.com/homepage/Archos/Main/ArchosRumors.html


French Review (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pdafrance.com%2Fpdaforum%2Fshowthread.php%3Fs%3Dd35ad3350016de5195a60f8f2930a229%26threadid%3D29986&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools)

Steve

[milkman dan]

if there is one thing that does irk me about PPC's is the ****ty HDD space. I am *almost* considering switching to an archoss jukebox. 80 gigs, good screen, ON THE FLY DIVX ENCODING, you name it, its got it. Built a bit of a PIM friendlyer interface, or hell, run the device on linux, and you've got one hell of a competitive device!

[Zab]

To me, it looks like you want your PPC to do everything perfectly the way it works on electronics made for specific things. If you want to game then get a GBA or PS2 or Desktop computer or...a ton of things. If you want to have a ****load of memeory for your songs then get an MP3 player or a cd player or a tape player or a desktop pc or a laptop or....a ton of other things.

Now, if you want to do EVERYTHING well at minimal cost ( PPC = PS2 and jukebox combined ) get a good PPC and sit back and have a good time.

[dh]

Having been using a Zaurus for a few months now and just converted my iMac to Linux, I wish I had made the switch from MS and Apple sooner.

I have nothing against them, but the quality and stability of the OS and the apps available in the Open Source world is much better than I would have expected. I still have to use Windows to some extent because of work, but I would like to switch both my remaining machines to Linux before too long.

The idea of a new PowerBook with Yellow Dog Linux is soooo tempting as well - might be a challenge to sneak this one past my wife though. :D

[maximus]

The idea of a new PowerBook with Yellow Dog Linux is soooo tempting as well - might be a challenge to sneak this one past my wife though. :D

Red hat, yellow dog, green bikini ...

:rotfl:

Funny names for an operating system.

These linux stuffs bring back the memory of the older IRC days .. eggdrop bots, TCL scripting, channel security, operator status, channel takeover ... ah, the good old days.

[nic]

My iPaq h1945 can play most SNES games pretty well. Have you tried Pocket SNES? It does better the morphius or morphus gear for SNES. Some oddball games that i wouldn't think are very processor intensive run like crap. and of corse super metroid runs like crap. But there are enough that do run and plenty of NES games that keep me occupied. (And a lot run w/o any frameskip). I always have the sound disabled because I don't like noise radiating from me during class :) :)

[Kowalski]

if windows mobile doesnt cut it for you then there is no choice, the changet time has come. but the question is where will you go?
yes ppc are not perfect but right now i cant see a better platform or form factor. by the time .NET evolves and new devices running .NET in the form factor of jornado 720 comes, maybe you'll be happier but as i said right now i cant see a better choice

[Stephen Beesley]

Having been using a Zaurus for a few months now and just converted my iMac to Linux, I wish I had made the switch from MS and Apple sooner.

I have nothing against them, but the quality and stability of the OS and the apps available in the Open Source world is much better than I would have expected. I still have to use Windows to some extent because of work, but I would like to switch both my remaining machines to Linux before too long.

The idea of a new PowerBook with Yellow Dog Linux is soooo tempting as well - might be a challenge to sneak this one past my wife though. :D

I must say I have been mighty tempted by the Linux line of Zaurs for the last year or so. Particularly the sl-6000 and sl-c860 models. Availability and cost have been the main things against them for me.

I have been lurking on a lot of the Zaurus sites for a while and find the community there reminds me alot of the Newton community.

As I said very tempting. For the moment I will be sticking to the PPC (nice shinny new e750 to play with :D ) but I will certainly be keeping my eye on the Zaurus.

BTW what is your usage pattern? The one software thing that has put me off is the lack of any HWR that could compare to Transcriber/Calligrapher. I know there is Decuma but that just does not really do it for me - i like to be able to write all over the screen. Must be a throw back to my Newton days...

[Zero101]

Well.... if we are just dreaming up fantasy PDA's... :devilboy:

I would love to see a Handheld PC on the market again... in a more slim form factor (ala the Psion Revo, perhaps?). Internal HDD. CF and SD. Bluetooth. Wifi would be nice, but not necessary. That would be a device I could easily take on trips with me, and not have to carry my notebook around.


Now... in reality, what device would I replace my current PDA's with? Hmm... the OQO has peaked my interest, but it's so expensive. I hear Nokia is thinking of releasing a new Symbian OS clamshell PDA... that could definitely be a contender. As it stands though, I will probably stick with my aging iPaq 3815, until a better option surfaces. (PCMCIA jacket for a 5GB toshiba HDD, wifi nic, and a Sprint PCS wireless card... plus Stowaway keyboard for typing. Not perfect, but it will do.)

[dh]

BTW what is your usage pattern? The one software thing that has put me off is the lack of any HWR that could compare to Transcriber/Calligrapher. I know there is Decuma but that just does not really do it for me - i like to be able to write all over the screen. Must be a throw back to my Newton days...
At first I missed Calligrapher which was my main input method on the PPC. However, the C860 has an excellent keyboard and I've gotten to use this nearly all the time.

The built in HWR is not too good on the Zaurus, probably the main area where PPC beats it.

As for the cost, my 860 was about $700.00 (including shipping from Japan). The good news is that I could pretty much get it all back on ebay if I get tempted by that HP 4700.

Red hat, yellow dog, green bikini ....
I think I'll go for green bikini next :D
Actually Yellow Dog is good because it's compiled just for Power PC computers like the Mac. Certainly given the old iMac a new lease of life.

[Skoobouy]

Thanks for the replies; I halfway expected some flames, but then I must have forgotten that this is PPCThoughts, with forums full of nice people. :)

The line I crossed when I got fed up with PPC is that I no longer believe that the convergence it offers is worth the sacrifices. In other words, before, I might have been willing to settle for PPC quality games, PPC quality music, PPC quality productivity, all for the paramount advantage of having it all in a Pocket PC.

Suddenly, "having it all in one device" looks less and less attractive in the face of the monster developments in competing dedicated game-players, media-players, and smartphones. For once, I say, let me carry MORE gadgets (or bigger ones), so that I can feast upon endless audio at booming bass-tones, lose myself in a portable game, and so on.

dean_shan asked what device I would switch to. I think I'm going for the Fujitsu Lifebook P1120. It's a 2.5 lb Crusoe-based touch-screen notebook. It's two years old, and notoriously slow, but as a PPC replacement I believe it does just the trick. With it, I can ditch most, if not all of the PPC limitations and keep many of the benefits. No more software limits; no puny storage, no teeny screen, and so on. It's about the size of a large paperback book (what some reviews call "bestseller paperback"), with gobs of battery life, and it can be had for cheap from eBay.

There's also the Dialogue Flybook, which is a big step up from the Fujitsu P1120--a little smaller, swivel screen, triple wireless, faster processor, more RAM, and so on. But it has been quoted at $2000, more than twice the mulah.

But I don't need the latest and greatest.

[Zero101]

If you are looking for more of a Notebook-style device, have you given any thought to the NEC Mobilepro 900c (http://www.necsam.com/mobilesolutions/products/MobilePro/900/specs.htm)? It's one of the few remaining Handheld PC's on the market, and is the only device I have considered buying to replace my current PDA.

It has a 400mhz cpu, and uses the latest version of WinCE with .net. Add a Toshiba HDD (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=451183&sku=T24-1102%20P) to it, and you have a VERY small, very light device that strikes a nice balance between PDA and Notebook.... all for about a grand. Sure, you only have 5GB hdd space (which should be plenty for a couple of DIVX movies and some music), but you also get 8 hours battery life... instant turn-on... and it' weighs less than 2lbs.

I can't bring myself to fork over that kind of cash for a PDA just yet... not when my iPaq does the job reasonably well. But, if and when the 900c comes down in price some (say... $699?) it shall be mine! :mrgreen:

[Janak Parekh]

dean_shan asked what device I would switch to. I think I'm going for the Fujitsu Lifebook P1120.
My problem is that I use my Pocket PC for "instant-on" tasks, which a Lifebook is not going to help with. If you don't have that requirement, it might indeed be a good choice -- it's certainly very cute. ;) It has a touch screen, right? I can't remember...

--janak

[SoftMaker]

Then there's other software. I'm tired of SoftMaker and the fact that they haven't updated their TextMaker past 2002 yet; table functionality is still broken.
Table functionality is not "broken" in TextMaker 2002, it's just not feature-by-feature compatible with Microsoft Word yet. It will be in TextMaker 2004.

Also, we have released at least 10 service packs for TextMaker 2002 over the last two years, and all of them were free. I wouldn't consider that as "not updating". Those service pack contained both new features and bug fixes. Also, next week there will be hi-res and landscape support in TextMaker 2002, another free service pack.

Martin Kotulla
SoftMaker Software GmbH

[BTS]

I find this topic rather timely as I have been going through some different thoughts recarding PPCs as of late.

Recently I purchased a Tungsten W only because a PPC phone edition was going to be too much. I checked out the Kyocera and MS smart phones but couldn't imagine doing input on them.

After purchasing the W and re-learning a Palm I started to think about how it and my Toshiba PPC are always in-sync. Then I started thinking of what "instant on" things I REALLY need. Calendar, tasks, a notepad, voice recording, perhaps a money app, and a phone. I realized that all of this could come in any of the smartphones that are out there.

As for the rest of my work I have become frustrated with working with documents, spreadsheets, on such a small form factor. Handy? Absolutely! Do I get work done faster? Hmmmmm, not so sure about that!

I can see myself carrying a smartphone and a tablet pc in the future. A tablet in the form factor of a Newton 2100 would do it for me. The screen on that fine machine was large enough to write on and view web pages - certainly better than the PPC.

I think I may be on my last PDA....