Online Petition To HP To Offer Upgrade To WM2003SE

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.petitiononline.com/HPWMK3SE/petition.html' target='_blank'>http://www.petitiononline.com/HPWMK...E/petition.html</a><br /><br /></div>A number of HP users are unhappy about the company's stance not to offer an SE upgrade for existing handhelds, and have set up a petition online to ask HP to change their mind. If you're an HP owner that feels this way, you may want to take a look and sign it.

[Mike Temporale]

Signed. Not sure that it will make a difference, but I've signed it anyway. :(

[sponge]

Does anyone take petitiononline.com serious anymore? I mean, look at the front page: Bring Chrisite Clark back to Days of our Lives petition.

[gorkon280]

Does anyone take petitiononline.com serious anymore?

I signed the e740 one and it never made a difference and I really doubt that this one would. One time it did work was when Milton Hershey School was trying to sell Hershey Foods but I am not sure if it was the petition or the massive community outcry that they'd sell the company that built the city of Hershey.

[Kevin Daly]

Does anyone take petitiononline.com serious anymore?

I signed the e740 one and it never made a difference and I really doubt that this one would.

However, if we say nothing then we can be certain that won't make a difference.

This is a huge PR blunder from HP - I've been an enthusiastic customer since the Jornada 545 but the pattern of arrogance and disdain for customer concerns is getting depressing.
Let's look at a few gems, and typical HP responses:

Jornada 54x :The 12 bit display originally marketed as 16 bit.
"Some users may unfortunately think that when we said 16 bit we meant something other than 12 bit..."
Jornada 56x: Dust. Bigtime.
"Dust, what dust? You should get your eyes checked mate".
Various 2003-era PPCs: Yellow tinged screen
"&lt;Silence>"
WM2003SE upgrades:
"You don't need that, little person"
2004-era PPCS: Only one VGA model.
"Only Enterprise Users could possibly have a use for VGA. Go away, little person."

Logically this will cause those of us contemplating buying one of the new HP models to pause and wonder whether we'll have any opportunity to upgrade to the Magneto version of the OS next year.
That will be a significant operating system upgrade, and well worth having.
HP might want to think about publicly addressing this question soon (it's reasonable to assume that they are working with early versions now, so it's not as if they have no idea whether the new machines will support it).
So on current form I expect silence, or worse.

[ctmagnus]

8O When I signed the petition 24 hours ago, there were ~330 signatures. Now there are 1100+!

Edit: this board has close to 18 000 members. Come on! Get signing!

[pepemosca]

I've signed and I have hope.

[felixdd]

This is a huge PR blunder from HP - I've been an enthusiastic customer since the Jornada 545 but the pattern of arrogance and disdain for customer concerns is getting depressing.
Let's look at a few gems, and typical HP responses:

Jornada 54x :The 12 bit display originally marketed as 16 bit.
"Some users may unfortunately think that when we said 16 bit we meant something other than 12 bit..."

They also gave the opportunity to have users refund their units if they wished to do so. Same can't be said for other companies that make a booboo, but doesn't offer a refund (i.e. Viewsonic publishing that not all of its 64 MB ram is accessible to the user.)

Jornada 56x: Dust. Bigtime.
"Dust, what dust? You should get your eyes checked mate".

Other units have problems with dust (i.e. Ipaq 36xx). And HP actually heeded customer complaints because the later roll-outs of the 56x series do not have dust problems.

Various 2003-era PPCs: Yellow tinged screen
"&lt;Silence>"
That's not a mistake/problem per se as it is a poor choice of parts. And not all the screens are yellow, nor do all the screen share the same level of "yellowness".

WM2003SE upgrades:
"You don't need that, little person"
That's a call based on money and potential losses on their new units, which do not differ greatly from the older series besides the OS and a few other bells and whistles.

2004-era PPCS: Only one VGA model.
"Only Enterprise Users could possibly have a use for VGA. Go away, little person."
They made a tactical choice. That's the same as all the PPCs relased before the e805, but after the high-res Sony Palms flooded the market: "no one needs more than 320x240".

In all fairness, I think HP is one of the better companies at ensuring that their products are functional even after its release. They releases patches regularly (2 patches exist for the 22xx series -- a lot more than other devices of other manufacturers). This is a lot different than Palm, which has yet to release driver-building information to Sandisk regarding the SD slot for some of its Palms (for the SD wifi card). And if I heard right, some of its older version can't possibly support the card either -- IMHO a bigger blunder than dust will ever be. As it stands, Palm is behind PPC in terms of wireless capabilities, that much is true.

So count your blessings. Despite a few mistakes, HP is still one of the best manufacturers around. And the fact that they finally included a flip lid into their new PPC -- something that other manufacturers still haven't started to do (even in the 56x days!) tells you that HP does listen to their customers, despite being a bit slow on this issue.

[Kevin Daly]

felixdd - Sorry I can't quote, it would get huge, but to reply to some of your replies:
My point about the dust issue and the yellow screen was not to claim that they were universal, unique to HP or design choices. My point was their failure to acknowledge the existence of flaws.
With the dust issue, despite the fact that it was very common in the 56x, HP expressed great scepticism in their public pronouncements, almost to the point of arguing that whatever people were seeing it wasn't dust because it couldn't be.
As for the yellow screen problem, I have looked in vain for any acknowledgement from HP that anybody has this problem, or what component-purchasing or quality control steps they have put in place to avoid a repetition. The failure to acknowledge a problem and state what is being done to avoid a recurrence of that problem inevitably weakens faith in the quality of the product line.

When it comes to decisions about what will and will not be provided (such as WM2003SE upgrades), I'm unaware of any evidence that HP (and I do not mean to imply that they are alone in this) actually bothers to attempt to determine what their customers might actually want. I get the impression that a marketing executive decides for him/herself what we want. It wouldn't be that hard to test the waters to find out if there would actually be a viable market for an upgrade. In fact it would be logical for the registration process for iPAQs to include a question asking whether people would be willing to participate in surveys that would help HP refine decisions on future feature sets and so on.

[SHoTTa35]

I signed as number 986... guess a few more has signed since then.. by this time tomorrow it should be 10,000!!!!! (right guys!) Even if you don't have or care bout iPAQs then do it for your fellow PDA brothers.

[felixdd]

felixdd - Sorry I can't quote, it would get huge, but to reply to some of your replies:
My point about the dust....

While I understand what you're saying here, that HP doesn't publically acknowledge when they dropped the ball, doesn't action speak louder than words? The fact that the newer batch of 586s have updated dust seals speak for themselves. As for the screen -- I think they knowingly picked a supplier of lower-grade screens to keep the cost down. To them, it's a compromise, not a mistake, and doesn't need to be accounted for as such.

As for me: having landscape abilities without resetting would have been nice, but I realize now that not having it isn't really affecting me. All the programs that I use with landscape (MobiPocket reader, Acrobat), have a manual way to rotate the screen anyways.

[christak]

I honestly think we have a much better chance of getting a "small price reduction" on a new iPAQ from HP rather than getting this WM2003SE upgrade from them...

I don't think we are going to change their SE "no-upgrade decision" as it opens a "Pandora's box" regarding issues caused by an inadequately tested ROM upgrade (we all remember those early ROM updates on the 3600 series, right?)

A $50 (you pick the amount) voucher from HP for use in the purchase of a new machine is something that HP "can do" -- no issues (other than the cost of buying some good will back from those of us who are not real happy right now...)

Any thoughts?? Folks? HP??

8)

[Duncan]

My point was their failure to acknowledge the existence of flaws... HP expressed great scepticism in their public pronouncements, almost to the point of arguing that whatever people were seeing it wasn't dust because it couldn't be.
As for the yellow screen problem, I have looked in vain for any acknowledgement from HP that anybody has this problem, or what component-purchasing or quality control steps they have put in place to avoid a repetition.

This 'public failure to acknowledge' is not unique to HP. Compaq were as bad. Toshiba were as bad. Palm is as bad. Heck - they are all as bad.

It is, unfortunately, considered bad business practice to acknoweldge any fault or issue openly if you aren't forced into doing so. Does that make it right? Of course not - but it's what happens.

Now - I don't know if HP ran into issues with making the upgrade work, or if they found it uneconomical (possibly either or both - bearing in Mind Dell made the same choice). Maybe their experiences with the 2002 and 2003 upgrades (oh how quickly we forget... not so long since HP/Compaq were the heroes and everyone else was condemned for not offering upgrades...) has made them think twice.

Maybe, just maybe, thay have a point that a) they never promised an upgrade would happen and b) that it doesn't offer enough of an improvement over WM2003...

We are getting into a bit of a 'who's the villain this time round' competition. This time Toshiba are the heroes, and HP are the villains. Last time Toshiba got the boos and HP got held up as the shining beacon (except by h19xx owners - who were, perhaps, less than realistic.

That gets us nowhere. HP won't change, Toshiba won't change, Dell won't change. They won't become consistent - they will continue to make judgements based on market factors, costs, demand etc. Some will be happy, some won't - each and every time.

To my mind there is someone to blame here - MS. They encouraged flashROM (required it in fact) - and promised easy upgrading by XIP. That promise got broken too easily. This has pushed companies into needing to provide full, tailored upgrades - with all the costs of developing, testing, user caused failures etc. Is it any surprise that HP (and Dell) could look at the changes in WM2003SE and think it not worthwhile offering it?

[ntractv]

Signature #1199

I would be willing to pay for the upgrade. Nothing outrageous. I'd be comfortable if it cost say.......$29.99

[huangzhinong]

Signature #1199

I would be willing to pay for the upgrade. Nothing outrageous. I'd be comfortable if it cost say.......$29.99

So you will pay at least $29.99 just for rotate screen?

I doubt many people will really buy it. Those people who sign the petition expect more free upgrade then paid one.

[wesley762]

The only thing that your going to get is VGA support, WAP Witch I know is important and Landscape mode. Correct me If I am wrong but did not Hp put out a WAP program or something like that for use to download and show me a Current HP model that supports VGA screens. and as Far as the landscape goes there are quite a few out there that work just fine and are cheaper than $29.99. I could understand If 2003SE fixed alot of problems and so forth but its not patch or anything like that. So I understand why Hp is not upgrading the older units. Am I the only one that really understands this and don't hate them for it. My next PDA will be a IPaq and I am proud to say that.

[ctmagnus]

Actually WM2003SE has three biggies for me: landscape, an improved PIE experience without 3rd part apps and one other that I can't recall at the moment. But it's much more than just landscape on the fly, which is why I want it so badly. But I am certainly not gong to buy a new machine to get it.

[Duncan]

What could be effective would be:

A joint effort by all Pocket PC/PDA sites (or as many as cold be joined) to submit a unified, single letter to all the OEMs and Microsoft - on behalf of their memberships - asking that the OEMs and Microsoft work together to ensure that future OS upgrades are delivered in a consistent and straightforward manner.

That would be a demonstration of real consumer power - and not nearly as easy to brush off.

[Mike Temporale]

So you will pay at least $29.99 just for rotate screen?

I doubt many people will really buy it. Those people who sign the petition expect more free upgrade then paid one.

I would be willing to pay. I don't expect HP to just give it away. I paid for my upgrade to PPC 2002 on my 3600. Why should it be any different?

[ctmagnus]

I don't expect HP to just give it away. I paid for my upgrade to PPC 2002 on my 3600. Why should it be any different?

It shouldn't be. I'm very surprised that Toshiba is giving away their WM2003SE upgrade.

[KimVette]

W(hich -- pardon the typo) PocketPC do power users turn to? Some (available as PCMCIA) devices will never be released in SD format (ethernet, SCSI, etc) and also why should users be forced to abandon hardware which has already been invested in, and is not obsolete? I'm referring to CF GPS cards, USB host cards, PCMCIA hard drives, etc.

What about third-party expansion sleeves people have already invested in, such as GPS sleeves, VGA sleeves, video capture/TV Tuner sleeves, and so forth?

Also, how does one run both GPS and mass storage concurrently on a PPC with just an SD slot? Sure, there is bluetooth, but again, there is the abandonment of hardware which has already been purchased, plus there is the problem of running Bluetooth in an aircraft where it may theoretically adversely affect avionics. This rules out the newest PPCs from being used as a handheld backup GPS system for emergency navigation in the air.

Another problem is battery life. The sleeves greatly extended runtime while using perhiperals. By forcing everything to be run off of the PPC's internal battery, you're decreasing runtime, and by using Bluetooth the radio is sucking that much more current from the battery, further reducing runtime.

HPs shortsighted vision is disgusting. HP owned the high-end PocketPC market and now the market has been abandoned - leaving disgruntled (now-former) customers who are decision makers to create policies blacklisting HP and turn to competitors produts.

HP, get your act together. Either spin off Compaq so the iPAQ team can innovate again, or just kill the HP PPC line entirely since you're making them less and less appealing as technology solutions. I'm thorougly disgusted with HP - especially disgusted because one year ago you (HP) promised to support the expansion sleeve form factor for at least two years.

[Duncan]

This is a thread about HP dropping support for sleeves?

Damn - don't we all look foolish for talking about the WM2003SE upgrades...! :roll:

[Ryan Joseph]

I don't even own an iPAQ, but I signed anyway...signature #1333. I believe the upgrade should be offered by all companies and if HP were to do it, others may follow suit.

I've still got my fingers crossed for an i-mate SE upgrade. :mrgreen:

[farnold]

Are you people never getting it 8O Again HP screws you up... when COMPAQ decided to just do nothing about thousands of complaints... when they release the 928 which never really worked... now again with the plan to just ignore their existing customer base...

But who cares? As long as you all buy the next new model from them why should they only consider changing their behaviour? You guys make them do it with your purchases - so stop signing whinging-watering petitions that you undermine tomorrow anyway...

Just my 2c.

[Kris Kumar]

Signature # 1449

I just got my iPaq 2210 downgraded..yes downgraded from Beta WM2003 Second Edition (loaded by HP at MDC) to vanilla WM2003 (ROM version 1.10). Actually HP had to swap my device for another 2210, it seems they cannot re-flash to a lower version ROM!

In case anyone is interested in my story...

Long long time ago, in March at Mobile Developer Conference I got my iPaq 2210 upgraded to Beta WM2003 SE. It enabled me to test apps and give feedback to HP (which I did, but never heard thanks from them). But in the process lost the Bluetooth. The beta ROM didn't have BT.

After a month of testing, I wanted BT back and tried to downgrade to the ROM (v1.10) on HP web site. But the flasher didn't let me do it.

So I waited, waited and waited for the HP to release WM2003 SE.

Then I learnt that HP will not release WM2003 SE (I said makes sense, the common user gains only screen rotation, why should HP bear the cost). But I was stuck - with a beta ROM and no BT.

I spent an hour on HP website support chat, convinced the support chap about my special case, he sent me a box to send my unit in. I sent it (no charges till now). I checked the tracking, they received it, and guess what I get a call saying that my unit is out of warranty, and I have to pay $215 for repairs. I said - "No way, you got to be kidding! I need to talk to the supervisor."

Then had to wait a day to talk to customer relations manager. Who said my unit was not in warranty, I said - "I know that, but can't HP help me. Why am I being treated like a Guinea Pig. I gave HP the feedback on the ROM. And never heard from HP. I am stuck now. I know I volunteered but this is no way to thank a beta tester." Luckily for me she gave me two options 1. HP will swap the unit with a new 2210 or 2. if I am possessive about my unit, HP will repair it for $215 (it needs system board replacement, because the ROM cannot be downgraded!).

I said Option #1 of course. Got the replacement this past friday.

I and my new iPaq will live happily ever after:-)

Didn't mean to bore you guys...it was a harrowing experience while it lasted.

Signed the petition to support the Pocket PC community, otherwise personally I won't miss the upgrade.

[Jaap van Ees]

Now, there should be someone with a brain at HP ... not likely, though.

[rpvdb]

Signed it. Good initiative. Regardless of the other petitions at the sites, this creates a possibility to give a clear signal to HP.

I've been a fairly happy IPAQ user since the early beginnings of the 3630. Just recently bought the 2210, and that will be my last IPAQ of HP does not change their minds about this....

[MarvinSamiano]

Aloha to us all,

I have a 3955 and a 5555. I entered the PPC world after being happily in the Palm world. When I purchased the 3955 and 2003 came out, I was able to upgrade the unit for a fee. I was sent a CD to accomplish this. When I purchased the 5555, I thought that this unit came with everything that I would want. I especially liked the increased memory, the included wireless connections (no need for a CF slot to be used for a wireless card), and the increased security feature.

While I can understand, albeit sadly, that perhaps my 3955 would not be eligible for an upgrade, I really find it hard to believe that the "top of the line" 5555 would be in the same boat. It's not like it is ancient, technology-wise. Or perhaps, did I allow myself to get caught up in all the hype from magazines and store sales personnel. Could it be that my 5555 has experienced an untimely demise just so that I would go out and purchase yet another unit, risking the same future?

Is there a reason that the same option that was given for my 3955 (upgrade for a small fee) cannot be given with this second edition. I mean, really... this isn't a jump from 2002 to 2003... these are both 2003!!!! Or perhaps I am just not computer savvy enough to know better. Which is indeed a major possibility.

To HP I say: "Fool me once, shame on you.... fool me twice, shame on me." I will think long and hard before purchasing another product from you. While I am not so arrogant as to think that my feelings are going to change HP's mind, it will at least be a personal victory for me.

Oh, and I signed the petition as well. While I may or may not use the upgrade, it is nice to at least have a choice!!!!

Aloha,
Marvin Samiano

[Malakie]

hi:

Just my two cents on this.. I am tired of HP. This is not the first time this has happened. I will not be buying ANY future HP products unless something changes. They might have all the money in the world but I do not. Discontinuing support for items that are only a few years old is bulls*&t and does NOT 'push' customers to buy the latest all the time.

I use the IPAQ 3670 and invested quite a bit of money in upgrades, add-ons and software for this unit. I will be damned if I am going to roll over and pay out the ass for a new unit just because HP wants to pad more to its bottom line.

I doubt they will listen at this point. But should the trend continue, someone someday there will suddenly wonder why they no longer hold the level of market share they used to.

Sincerely,
Todd