PDAGold Gets Some Hands-on Time with the iPAQ hx4700

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pdagold.com/articles/detail.asp?a=180' target='_blank'>http://www.pdagold.com/articles/detail.asp?a=180</a><br /><br /></div><i>"At first sight, you'll notice the device's unusual design. HP designers allowed their imagination free rein and hx4700 resembles a futuristic communicator rather than 2004 PDA. Forget about silvery plastic - the body is made of magnesium alloy so that it is as light as plastic but incomparably more durable. Its dark colour with metallic shine makes the device appear smaller than it is. Instead of a common joypad, this iPAQ features a unique touchpad, the same as that used in laptop computers. It can work in two modes - either as a rather unusual joypad or as a normal touchpad which even shows a pointer on the display! It remains to be seen if it is an ingenious innovation or a dead end - now, it's too early to judge. For a device with two expansion slots (SDIO and CF type II), it is extremely thin - it looks gorgeous with its 15 millimetres."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/hx4700.jpg" /><br /><br />I don't know how Pavel does it, or how HP allows him to publish these reviews, but he managed to get his hands on an hx4700. This device looks simply awesome - a 4" VGA screen, fast 624 mhz CPU, 128 MB of Flash ROM (with about 80 MB for storage), 64 MB of RAM (for running programs - savvy users will install everything to Flash ROM), Bluetooth, WiFi, and a whole lot more. The only thing I'm a little suspicious of is the touch pad, but time will tell how that works out for gaming and whatnot. Check out Pavel's preview for more information.<br /><br />There's no pricing yet, but <a href="http://estore.shopplex.com/app/storefront.aspx?cat_id=162&inv_id=40517130518413&modid=30214092059015&aid=5">this is the only pre-order page I've seen</a> for the hx4700 yet. If you want one of these bad boys, put your name down. [Affiliate]

[Jonathan1]

I never understood why people are so gung-ho on safe store areas. For files sure its great but for apps? Since most apps dump a few registry entries into the RAM upon install if a device gets rest the apps, at least in every instance I've tried, breaks making the safe store areas less appealing. I'd rather have a ton of more RAM storage (That typically is faster anyways.) and dump any critical files I need on an SD or CF card.

Beyond that...the only other complaint I have is lack of flip cover. I still am the conspiracy theorist thinking that its motivated by letting the screen stay unprotected. Other then that this device looks like da ****.

[Jason Dunn]

I never understood why people are so gung-ho on safe store areas.

Adding more RAM to a Pocket PC (say, 128 MB) means it needs more power to keep that RAM lit up. Flash ROM costs no power when the device is off. For that reason alone, nothing else, I want to see more Flash ROM and less RAM.

Yeah, the lack of a flip cover sucks. I can't believe how stubborn HP is being about this. :roll:

[palmsolo]

I wasn't really thinking any of these new devices would be able to suck away dollars from my PDA budget, but dang if this one isn't tempting me with its large memory capacity, 4" high resolution display, dual slots, integrated wireless and magnesium alloy casing.

I would like to try the touch pad out first though because I personally cannot stand them on laptop and prefer the trackpoint eraser head on laptops. I don't know if this was a smart move and it may prevent this PDA from being my new choice. Why do manufacturers have to tweak too much or too little and end up with devices that are close to being perfect?

[Jonathan1]

Adding more RAM to a Pocket PC (say, 128 MB) means it needs more power to keep that RAM lit up. Flash ROM costs no power when the device is off. For that reason alone, nothing else, I want to see more Flash ROM and less RAM.


Ahh. I never saw it from that point of view. I didn't realize that RAM was THAT power hungry. I knew it tapped the batt to keep the RAM from losing its data but never figured it was anything other then a slight trickle. But I guess anything that can extend the batt so its not eating battery life while my system is turned off is a good thing.

On thing. Anyone else wish they put a camera in this thing? I know that there has been a backlash on integrating camera's in stuff but I've found myself REALLY wishing that I had a camera in a few instances and carrying my Sony hand canon with me really isn't an option. *shrugs* Maybe its just me. I was at the grocery store the other day and got out of the car. Next to me was one of those shopping cart slash kid cars that are fun for the kids. Well the thing was apparently having oil problems since under it there was a puddle of oil that was trickling out from under it. I got a nice laugh out of it and really wish I could have taken a picture.

[azhiker]

Overall impression: state-of-the-art guts, solid but ugly exterior, probably outlandishly priced for me.

But still no real word about that touch-pad. For big-finger folks, that small pad seems to be a ridiculous idea. Will have to wait for a real review that puts this model through the paces.

Thre seems to be an awful lot of landscape above the screen (which to me makes it look too big). But it might be great to see a model in landscape mode with buttons on both sides of the screen!

So this model may be a forerunner of better things to come. :D

[dhettel]

I never understood why people are so gung-ho on safe store areas.

Adding more RAM to a Pocket PC (say, 128 MB) means it needs more power to keep that RAM lit up. Flash ROM costs no power when the device is off. For that reason alone, nothing else, I want to see more Flash ROM and less RAM.

Yeah, the lack of a flip cover sucks. I can't believe how stubborn HP is being about this. :roll:

For my two cents I want more RAM, way more RAM! I am with Jonathan1 on this. If we get any system updates on this device, chances are they will be RAM based. Drivers and today screen programs do not run from Flash ROM or a Storage Card, has been my experience. :cry: The more free RAM the faster the performance. It's way to easy to run out of 64 MB of ram for me.

[David Johnston]

Last but not least, the iPAQ offers automatic backlight adjustment based on lighting conditions.

The Jornada lives!

[mar2k]

Where in the article does it say there is no flip cover? Everything up until now says there is a flip cover. The article says the following:

"Display protection is almost perfect. Compared with a plastic shield in iPAQs h3000 series, this solution is much better."

It does not elaborate on whether it is a flip cover or something else.

[PR.]

Corrrrr :jawdrop:

I'm not too clear on whether the usual RAM stored OS files are now in flash memory and the ram is for... other stuff.

What i'm trying to say is, is the registry and windows folder now kept in flash ram (as well as running cab files) or are they still in ram?

[PR.]

Where in the article does it say there is no flip cover? Everything up until now says there is a flip cover. The article says the following:

"Display protection is almost perfect. Compared with a plastic shield in iPAQs h3000 series, this solution is much better."

It does not elaborate on whether it is a flip cover or something else.

I would think its that lump on the left handside of the first pic

[Dermot81]

Me want.

NOW

[huangzhinong]

It has flip-cover.

There are so many feature similarity between Hx4700 and Jornada 568.
1. autodetect backlight
2. flipcover
3. $649.99
4. size and form factor
5. HP brand and MS OS.
6. replaceable big battary(jornada 568 is 1400mah, hx4700 is 1800mah).
7. CF card support

[rzanology]

so much for your kids school shopping!!!! I think this thing is PERFECT!!!! One thing that makes a device solid to me is, impriving on everything that was wrong and right before. And still have something new to play with (vga,touchpad.) Call me silly...but my main concern is the leather case they are going to release with this. I can't stand ugly cases maaaan...the HP 2215 case was nice, i hope they give me something like that.


hmmm...now i gottah go buy the black face plates for my z600 to match.

[mar2k]

Where in the article does it say there is no flip cover? Everything up until now says there is a flip cover. The article says the following:

"Display protection is almost perfect. Compared with a plastic shield in iPAQs h3000 series, this solution is much better."

It does not elaborate on whether it is a flip cover or something else.

I would think its that lump on the left handside of the first pic

Yeah, but what is it? A side to side flip cover?

[David Johnston]

It has flip-cover.

There are so many feature similarity between Hx4700 and Jornada 568.
1. autodetect backlight
2. flipcover
3. $649.99
4. size and form factor
5. HP brand and MS OS.
6. replaceable big battary(jornada 568 is 1400mah, hx4700 is 1800mah).
7. CF card support

It's not as big as the jornada is it?! I have my old Jornada 568 here and it seems massive compared to my 2215!

But then I also remember when I bought my Jornada how tiny it seemed in the box... and that feeling again when I got my iPaq.

[pgb5]

Shocker. Tek n Toys with a pre-order. First to list. Last to ship.

[Jonathan1]

It has flip-cover.



Dude you guys have single handedly made my day, week, month, and maybe even my year.

This will be my next Pocket PC. :rock on dude!:

Goodbye my faithful Jornada 568. You will be missed. :cry:

[KimVette]

Only 64MB of RAM? No sleeve support? Man, HP is really sucking lately. I'm switching to tablets when I upgrade. *bleep* HP and *bleep* Carly Fiorina for destroying the iPAQ line.

[dh]

If I were looking for a PPC, this would be it. The specification seems to have just about everything, and I use the same memory layout now so I know it works well.

The design is cool as well. Other than the 5xxx series, I've never really liked the look of the Ipaqs but I would go for this 4700 in a heartbeat. It's about time HP came out with a new serious device to replace the aging 5xxx.

Nice one!

[pivaska]

Does this look and feel like a Tosh E80X ?????? I still like my E800... have tried SE went back and am waiting for something REALLY exciting.

[sundown]

Wow that is sweet. I love the design and it's feature-packed. Can't wait to see what kind of cover it really has.

[bridgecrosser]

You guys are great - one of the things I like about the Pocket PC community is the enthusiasm and armchair discussions that arise when new devices are soon-to-be released. I've tried Palm and been sorely disappointed. Pocket PC's still rock and always will! :D

[Jonathan1]

It's not as big as the jornada is it?! I have my old Jornada 568 here and it seems massive compared to my 2215!

But then I also remember when I bought my Jornada how tiny it seemed in the box... and that feeling again when I got my iPaq.


iPaq hx4700: 129 X 77 X 14.7 mm
Jornada 568: 132 x 76.5 x 17.2 mm

Its a bit smaller in some places. Larger in others. All in all its an acceptable trade-off considering what its guts contains. I think its a testament to how OEM's have shrunk the crap out of everything over the last few years. Wonder what we will see in 2006? 8O

[rzanology]

Only 64MB of RAM? No sleeve support? Man, HP is really sucking lately. I'm switching to tablets when I upgrade. *bleep* HP and *bleep* Carly Fiorina for destroying the iPAQ line.


lol eaaasy maaan. lol you sound like those old rich people screaming at that new bmw designer.

Tablet pcs aint bad maaan....i got mine on the way...should be here tuesday!!!! BUT!!!! you still have to have an ipaq. Theres times the tablet will be too big and out of place.

besides....you knoooow you want the 4700. Not matter how ugly people say it is....you're gonna get it!

[Jonathan1]

Only 64MB of RAM? No sleeve support? Man, HP is really sucking lately. I'm switching to tablets when I upgrade. *bleep* HP and *bleep* Carly Fiorina for destroying the iPAQ line.

Your destruction is anothers salvation. I admit the look of these devices is far from original, dang it where is Apple when you need them!?!?, but frankly the majority of users who realized that the sleeve was dead from the get go and for those who are willing to use safe store as an alternative to RAM, you did notice 80MB for safestore right?, this is a fantastic device.


Oh good luck on your 3+ pound tablet. I can't wait to see someone put out a belt clip for a Tablet PC. :lol: It'll prob be a mod of one of those weight-lifting belts. :roll:

[arnage2]

$650 is super steap for a ppc, but now i have to get this one. :D

[Jonathan1]

besides....you knoooow you want the 4700. Not matter how ugly people say it is....you're gonna get it!


No. Kim isn't go to get one. Neither is anyone else. This system sucks! Stay away from it. Stay....*types his credit card into the preorder screen*....away. Go get a Asus or something. *clicks submit* You guys will be really disapointed with it so er...get a Toshiba or something.....MY PRECCCCCIOUSSSSSS :D

[rzanology]

Only 64MB of RAM? No sleeve support? Man, HP is really sucking lately. I'm switching to tablets when I upgrade. *bleep* HP and *bleep* Carly Fiorina for destroying the iPAQ line.



Oh good luck on your 3+ pound tablet. I can't wait to see someone put out a belt clip for a Tablet PC. :lol: It'll prob be a mod of one of those weight-lifting belts. :roll:


you say it as though 3 pounds is alot. Im willing to bet you've never held a 3 pound tablet.

[huangzhinong]

After I read the article again, I found the author mentioned PocketInformant was bundled. Does anybody know if it is a full version? Alex mentioned he didn't get a good reply from HP in his website. So I guess this one must be a trial version.

[qgman]

you say it as though 3 pounds is alot. Im willing to bet you've never held a 3 pound tablet.

Seeing as I an writing this on my 3-pound tablet, I feel qualified to respond. 3 pounds is light compared to many laptops, but is heavy enough to get noticeable, especially after holding it in one hand for long periods of time. Despite what some people may initially think, PDA's and tablets are two different beasts that each serve different purposes.

[surur]

For the people complaining about the 64Mb ram. Ive run some simple tests, and on my XDA 2 (128Mb ram) I was unable to force the device to use more than 32Mb program ram, despite 64Mb being allocated. So until microsoft fixes their OS, you are just wasting your time with >64Mb.

With a large safestore you could install all your software there, an not have to worry about a removable SD card. As some-one mentioned earlier, the biggest problem is that some files (e.g the registry) are only stored in RAM, but maybe a good back-up program that copies it to safestore every few hours could make your device completely bulletproof.

Surur

[Kati Compton]

Only 64MB of RAM? No sleeve support? Man, HP is really sucking lately. I'm switching to tablets when I upgrade. *bleep* HP and *bleep* Carly Fiorina for destroying the iPAQ line.

May Carly rot in a warm place for eternity.

You seem to have a personal vendetta against Carly Fiorina. I'm not sure that this site is the best place to present these types of feelings. Disagreeing with decisions made at HP or even by a specific person at HP? No problem. Personal attacks? We try to discourage that here. Plus, I'm not sure anyone *actually* deserves eternal damnation for messing with a product line, even if it is Pocket PC related. ;)

[Marcel_Proust]

Does this look and feel like a Tosh E80X ?????? I still like my E800... have tried SE went back and am waiting for something REALLY exciting.

It's kind of odd eh all the hooplah about this. The Tosh has 128 mb, but less flash rom (flash rom is not that exciting, and also very slow), dual slots, same screen, and good support. This really isn't all that exciting, except for the flip cover!
I guess everyone hates Toshiba, but I would have thought Compaq could have done a little more.

[rzanology]

So until microsoft fixes their OS, you are just wasting your time with &lt;64Mb.

Surur



yea well ya know you could always switch over to an ipod and manage your contacts while listening to the earny and bert duet part 3 from sesame street!

[SeanH]

It needs more RAM. Adding a larger amout of internal Flash does not buy you anything. You can always use the SDIO/MMC slot for Flash storage. As Flash prices continue to you decress the on board Flash has less and less value. As appications continue to grow as they did on the desktop over the last 20 years you will need more RAM.

Sean

[Calculon]

Long live the Toshiba e805 with 128MB of RAM and 32MB of Flash and a 4" screen and SD & CF slots...

Looks like HP took notes.

Cheers!

[Jonathan1]

you say it as though 3 pounds is alot. Im willing to bet you've never held a 3 pound tablet.

You are right. I've never had a 3 pound tablet in my pocket for 8 hours. I'll have to try that next time I can get my hands on a 3 pound tablet PC, those freaky jeans with huge pockets, and a job that will allow my to wear said jeans to work. :roll:

[Jason Lee]

The only thing this is missing to make it the perfect ppc for me is nevo. I do use it a lot.

On the other hand the only thing missing from the high end rx3000 would be a CF slot and vga would be nice... :)

which to get? Blast! why can't they just put all their technology into one ppc and sell it to me for around $900? ;)

Oh well.. only time will tell if any can replace my 2215. :D

[arnage2]

i was really hoping for a harddrive in the VGA ipaq. i guess i have to keep dreaming. (or just buy a md)

[disconnected]

I just hope that all the apps that currently insist on being installed to main storage get rewritten to allow installation to the file store area, or at least to SD.
Other than that, this looks almost perfect, although I'm still sort of confused about the touch pad.

[The Yaz]

This memory arraingement is going to be interesting. For most users, the 64mg of ram should be acceptable. My only concern is that it is all available to the user, and not partially used by the OS. Otherwise it will be an expensive brick.

On the other hand, I predict that some industrious fellow is going to come up with a software program that will fool the ipaq that it has more ram (remember virtual ram?). With such a program, process heavy applications like GPS navigation or editing video could throw activity into the filestor like it was ram.

Then the pda will be similar to the 486 desktops of the 1980's.

Steve 8)

[lmtuxinc]

$650 is super steap for a ppc, but now i have to get this one. :D

no kidding, you can get a Pentium III laptop from ebay for less than that. (i know cause i did for my church)

[Stake]

Is it just me or does any PDA attached to a hand make it more tantalizing? :wink:

It still looks like a very impressive device with a lot of features we were looking to get in one package. For those who still cling to the e80x, you have to remember that you can only have BT or Wi-Fi, not both. That's where these two differ. Plus the version of BT on the iPaq is 1.2 which I'm hoping would offer audio streaming for wireless headphones!

I would have like to have seen a jog dial of some sort but if I didn't mind my e550g not having, I guess I wouldn't have a problem with this.

Three things that I'd like to know:
1) How does the flip cover work?
2) What the touchpad is like
3) Where's the IR port?

I only ask the 3rd question because side mounted IR ports are just dumb. As someone else said before, a camera would have been nice which means I also anticipate the new Loox 720 too but the chances that it will be released in the US are slim.

It's a good 2nd half for PPC users! Too many to choose from...did I actually say that? :D

For those who have no use for a CF slot, why not make it into a SD slot?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008WD8W/qid=1090006946/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/002-9984814-9726415?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

[huangzhinong]

For those who have no use for a CF slot, why not make it into a SD slot?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008WD8W/qid=1090006946/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/002-9984814-9726415?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

Interesting. Spent $60 to buy the adapter to convert a more expensive SD card into cheap CF card? Seems not so sense to me.

[badbob001]

Isn't the whole point of dual slots is the ability to add more flash storage to the device and still be able to use other add-ons? If I want more flash, I'll get myself a 1GB+ SD card. But oh, if I want more RAM, the most I can hope for is to send my device to someone's garage workshop for some surgery. Hey HP, if you're trying to save me from needing to buy a SD card, why not keep the change and give me a real dpad! I think 64MB of flash is more expensive than 64MB of ram anyway.

And remember, the PocketPC was never designed to be conservative with its memory usage (no CLOSE app button!), so the more the better! Now, how will they come out with a N64 emulator with just 64MB of RAM to play with?

And I bet all the Windows Mobile 2005 devices will have 128+MB of memory and you're stuck with a device not worth upgrading. But HP knows that so they're trying to condition its customers to think of their devices as being disposable (eg: no 2003SE upgrades for you!).

Hmm, is there another reason for needing 128MB of ROM space? Does HP secretly has a linux 4700 in the works? Or does Windows Mobile 2005 need 100MB of space?

In other news, I bet the flip cover is transparent so one can use the trackpad to navigate. If that is the case, it'll be lame compared to a jogdial! If it really is the son of the jornada, where is the jogdial? No wonder it has a magnesian shell... everyone will be dropping it from trying to drag-and-tap with one hand. I wonder if app buttons are part of the trackpad. If they are, then those people that like simultaneous-button/dpad presses are going to riot.

But hey, like with Howard Stern, I'm sure the haters will still want to try it out. :)

[badbob001]

Interesting. Spent $60 to buy the adapter to convert a more expensive SD card into cheap CF card? Seems not so sense to me.

It would be useful to allow people on vacation to transfer photos from their Compact Flash camera to their SD-only pocketpc. Or for people wanting to only buy one type of memory.

But I bet this adapter is neither supported in PocketPCs or Cameras since it'll most likely need a driver. I hope I'm wrong.

[Stake]

For those who have no use for a CF slot, why not make it into a SD slot?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008WD8W/qid=1090006946/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/002-9984814-9726415?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

Interesting. Spent $60 to buy the adapter to convert a more expensive SD card into cheap CF card? Seems not so sense to me.

That's not my point. If you're not willing to purchase an CF card (because it's an old format) and all you have are SD cards, you can put a second card in it place and have dual SD slots. Don't you get it???

[huangzhinong]

For those who have no use for a CF slot, why not make it into a SD slot?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008WD8W/qid=1090006946/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl23/002-9984814-9726415?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

Interesting. Spent $60 to buy the adapter to convert a more expensive SD card into cheap CF card? Seems not so sense to me.

That's not my point. If you're not willing to purchase an CF card (because it's an old format) and all you have are SD cards, you can put a second card in it place and have dual SD slots. Don't you get it???

Yes, I got it. $60 is enough for 512Mb CF.

[Jonathan1]

$650 is super steap for a ppc, but now i have to get this one. :D

no kidding, you can get a Pentium III laptop from ebay for less than that. (i know cause i did for my church)


Used laptops are like the village whore. You never can tell how well they will perform, very often they will let you down, and god knows what the previous person did to them.

Thanks but IMHO a used laptop isn't better then a new Pocket PC. Plus again find me a laptop that does instand on as fast as a Pocket PC, can fit in your pocket and costs about the same then we'll talk.

Again as has been pointed out since the beginning of time: The Pocket PC and the Laptop are two different devices to cater to different functionality.

[huangzhinong]

Isn't the whole point of dual slots is the ability to add more flash storage to the device and still be able to use other add-ons? If I want more flash, I'll get myself a 1GB+ SD card. But oh, if I want more RAM, the most I can hope for is to send my device to someone's garage workshop for some surgery.

If I didn't remember wrong, Pocketpctech actually only add ROM for you. The 64Mb or 128Mb RAM added (they called) is only used like file store, not for program running.

[Jonathan1]

This memory arraingement is going to be interesting. For most users, the 64mg of ram should be acceptable. My only concern is that it is all available to the user, and not partially used by the OS. Otherwise it will be an expensive brick.


Steve. You did read the part about 80MB of safe store being available to the user right? So 64MB + 80MB = 144MB that is available to the user to load apps, store files on.

[arnage2]

the 3715 has 156mb (or so i heard) how could a $650 uber ipaq have less ram than the $499 one

[Jonathon Watkins]

On thing. Anyone else wish they put a camera in this thing?

NO! This PDA is one I (and many others) can actually buy. Why spoil it? :wink:

I know that there has been a backlash on integrating camera's in stuff but I've found myself REALLY wishing that I had a camera in a few instances and carrying my Sony hand canon with me really isn't an option.

Use your phone camera - :? not that I'm bitter about the trend to embed cameras in everything or anything. :wink:

[Stake]

I just checked the FCC site and High Tech Computer (HTC) was approved for another PDA today. There are no details other than the FCC ID: NM8BALI as of 4:30PM. Description only says "PDA w/WLAN and Bluetooth."

I'm gonna take a stab and say that it's the 4705 because the 3700 and the 6300 series were approved several weeks ago. The 170x doesn't have any wireless features.

[The Yaz]

Jonathan1 wrote:
Steve. You did read the part about 80MB of safe store being available to the user right? So 64MB + 80MB = 144MB that is available to the user to load apps, store files on.

My point was the 64mb of ram is for processing only. I know you will be able to load programs into the 80mb filestore. My concern was that if the OS is stored in rom that requires operations to happen in the ram, you will have only 50mb or so to run additional applications on top of the OS.

In that case, you could install as many programs as you like, just don't expect to be able to run more than 1 or 2 at any given time.

I hope that is not the case, and that for future growth I hope an idea like virtual ram becomes a possibility.

Steve 8)

[badbob001]

This memory arraingement is going to be interesting. For most users, the 64mg of ram should be acceptable. My only concern is that it is all available to the user, and not partially used by the OS. Otherwise it will be an expensive brick.


Steve. You did read the part about 80MB of safe store being available to the user right? So 64MB + 80MB = 144MB that is available to the user to load apps, store files on.

He means how much ram is left for running apps, not just for storage. Remember that right out of the box, the operating system and whatever else they have running automatically will take up some amount of that 64MB ram even before the user loads anything.

According to the article:
Coupled with 63 MB of RAM, you have more than enough room for your data and applications

[atsouch]

Does anyone know if it will have a USB host port?

I think that this is the best feature of e80x.

[mar2k]

My old Casio EM-500 used to have 16MB RAM for apps and running programs and I ran so many things from storage cards that I cannot really see this as that big of a problem. How much slower is Flash ROM than RAM?

[huangzhinong]

Does anyone know if it will have a USB host port?

I think that this is the best feature of e80x.

No, it doesn't. But E80X need adapter for usb host, so seems only better than nothing. Loox 720, mitac 558 and asus a 730 provide direct USB host.

[Damion Chaplin]

Hmmm... I don't care what anyone sez, the design for this device is SWEET. Finally a device that was meant to be held sideways as well as upright! Never was a big fan of the faux-metal look. I'm a big fan of black cameras, black stereo receivers, black TVs... and black PDAs. Seems much more professional and goes out of style much less quickly. Also, as soon as that silver-painted plastic gets scratched, it's obvious it's plastic and not metal. :razz:

I'd buy it in an instant if it were closer to $400. Given time it will be.

[Duncan]

I just checked the FCC site and High Tech Computer (HTC) was approved for another PDA today. There are no details other than the FCC ID: NM8BALI as of 4:30PM. Description only says "PDA w/WLAN and Bluetooth."

I'm gonna take a stab and say that it's the 4705 because the 3700 and the 6300 series were approved several weeks ago. The 170x doesn't have any wireless features.

Not necessarily - the Loox 720 will be an HTC device too. Usually FFC approval comes after Bluetooth qualification - as yet the iPAQ 4705 has not been qualified.

[lmtuxinc]

$650 is super steep for a ppc, but now i have to get this one. :D
no kidding, you can get a Pentium III laptop from ebay for less than that. (i know cause i did for my church)
Used laptops are like the village whore. You never can tell how well they will perform, very often they will let you down, and god knows what the previous person did to them.
i wasn't commenting on the performance of a ppc vs a laptop. i know that they have different uses, as does a tablet pc.
the church needed a spare laptop and didnt have the funds to purchase a new one. it works well for what they use it for.

my point was that $650 for a ppc is extremely expensive and i was offering a comparison.

[SteveHoward999]

Yes, I got it. $60 is enough for 512Mb CF.


and $120 is enough for a 2.2 Gb CF mini HDD


Steve

[Stake]

I just checked the FCC site and High Tech Computer (HTC) was approved for another PDA today. There are no details other than the FCC ID: NM8BALI as of 4:30PM. Description only says "PDA w/WLAN and Bluetooth."

I'm gonna take a stab and say that it's the 4705 because the 3700 and the 6300 series were approved several weeks ago. The 170x doesn't have any wireless features.

Not necessarily - the Loox 720 will be an HTC device too. Usually FFC approval comes after Bluetooth qualification - as yet the iPAQ 4705 has not been qualified.

See, I learn something new everyday!
BTW, what are the chances that the 720 will make it over here?

[Duncan]

BTW, what are the chances that the 720 will make it over here?No idea I'm afraid!

[Kevin Daly]

Having said numerous uncharitable things about this design (and I still think it's too angular), I have to admit that I like the magnesium alloy idea. 0X

[huangzhinong]

Having said numerous uncharitable things about this design (and I still think it's too angular), I have to admit that I like the magnesium alloy idea. 0X

I like almost everything about hx4700, except size and price. About size, I am wondering they have so big space on the top, why can't they cut it off like TH55?

As to price, well, I know, I know, but how about $500? $650 is too much for a PDA. I may have to chekc ebay after a few month.

[dochall]

Look great.

The real questions I have about it though. How loud is the speaker? (the 5500 sucks) How useable it the touchpad?


TeknToys being the only people to have it up for preorder worries me. Normally Expansys only need a sniff of a new model and it's up for preorder. They have the rest of the new Ipaqs but not the 4700 - makes me wonder when is coming out.

Oh and while we're on the subject could we persuade HP to ship engineering samples to Vaja. I always have the delay between getting a new PDA and Vaja delievering cases for it. I can't live without my ivolution. (flip covers....pah)

[SeanH]

My point was the 64mb of ram is for processing only. I know you will be able to load programs into the 80mb filestore. My concern was that if the OS is stored in rom that requires operations to happen in the ram, you will have only 50mb or so to run additional applications on top of the OS.

In that case, you could install as many programs as you like, just don't expect to be able to run more than 1 or 2 at any given time.

I hope that is not the case, and that for future growth I hope an idea like virtual ram becomes a possibility.

I agree 100%. Most people that are going to buy a PDA with VGA, BT, WiFi and a PXA270 running at 624MHz demand 128MB of memory. PDA's are not like desktops were you just add a new DIMM.

Sean

[jpjehu]

Does 'magnesium alloy' really mean metal casing? That would be very cool. Will there be buttons, or are those apart of the touch pad? I am very impressed with the addition of the audio qualities, and Pocket Informant added to the software, but I don't know if I can get this near-perfect device simply because it really DOES look like the old uninventive, non-ergodynamic Jornada. The size and layout can't sway me from the ASUS's great balance of everything.

[werb]

TeknToys being the only people to have it up for preorder worries me. Normally Expansys only need a sniff of a new model and it's up for preorder. They have the rest of the new Ipaqs but not the 4700 - makes me wonder when is coming out.



We were told yesterday that it would be ready in 4-8 weeks!

[marovada]

besides....you knoooow you want the 4700. Not matter how ugly people say it is....you're gonna get it!


No. Kim isn't go to get one. Neither is anyone else. This system sucks! Stay away from it. Stay....*types his credit card into the preorder screen*....away. Go get a Asus or something. *clicks submit* You guys will be really disapointed with it so er...get a Toshiba or something.....MY PRECCCCCIOUSSSSSS :D

I hate this buy a ppc every year to get a new OS thing - but I have to agree, I'd buy HP 4700, OQO and Vaio U70 if I had enough money. Just can't control myself, touchpad or no touchpad, it's just too drool worthy and I can't control myself. What a sad sad life.

Sob, I even thought about getting an E800 to pass the time until the new ones come out. Need psychological help - quick!!

[Ryan Joseph]

my point was that $650 for a ppc is extremely expensive...

My i-mate was almost $800. :mrgreen:

But then, it's a phone and Internet, too, so...

[Calculon]

Does anyone know if it will have a USB host port?

I think that this is the best feature of e80x.

No, it doesn't. But E80X need adapter for usb host, so seems only better than nothing. Loox 720, mitac 558 and asus a 730 provide direct USB host.

Yes it does and it work like a charm. I've connected thumbrives, keyboards, and a mouse.

[bnycastro]

Anyone else wish they put a camera in this thing? I know that there has been a backlash on integrating camera's in stuff

I would like to see atleast a 1.3MP Camera (with Flash if possible) that way this iPAQ would be better equiped for multi-media :D It would be geat for leisure users like me. The Touchpad needs to be Touched--> I have to see it/use it first before I decide 0X . As for the Price I'm sure it would be up there but it would be still worth it! Hey it's an iPAQ 8O

[bnycastro]

besides....you knoooow you want the 4700. Not matter how ugly people say it is....you're gonna get it!


No. Kim isn't go to get one. Neither is anyone else. This system sucks! Stay away from it. Stay....*types his credit card into the preorder screen*....away. Go get a Asus or something. *clicks submit* You guys will be really disapointed with it so er...get a Toshiba or something.....MY PRECCCCCIOUSSSSSS :D

I hate this buy a ppc every year to get a new OS thing - but I have to agree, I'd buy HP 4700, OQO and Vaio U70 if I had enough money. Just can't control myself, touchpad or no touchpad, it's just too drool worthy and I can't control myself. What a sad sad life.

Sob, I even thought about getting an E800 to pass the time until the new ones come out. Need psychological help - quick!!

ahhh yesss... GADGETLUST! :devilboy: The first step is admitting it... :mrgreen:

[Janak Parekh]

I hate this buy a ppc every year to get a new OS thing - but I have to agree, I'd buy HP 4700, OQO and Vaio U70 if I had enough money. Just can't control myself, touchpad or no touchpad, it's just too drool worthy and I can't control myself. What a sad sad life.
Sad? Poor, perhaps, but hardly sad. :P

The one thing you're missing there is a cellular device. Perhaps the upcoming Danger Hiptop/T-Mobile Sidekick? :mrgreen:

--janak

[Kati Compton]

On thing. Anyone else wish they put a camera in this thing?

NO! This PDA is one I (and many others) can actually buy. Why spoil it? :wink:
I don't know that I care one way or the other about a camera....

Except I REALLY REALLY wish that the focus was on the *quality* of the camera instead of the resolution. Why do I want 1.3MP crappy pictures? I'd rather have .5MP *good* pictures. Oh well.

[bnycastro]

slightly OFF TOPIC: Doesn't more resolution mean better quality pics??? :D never had a very nice digi-cam. My experiences with a digital-cam (embedded and not) are limited to the cam on a Nokia 7650 (0.3MP??) and Panasonic SV-AV30 both very low-res (1MP??).

I always bring my mobile (Nokia 3100) and my iPAQ and usually the cam is left behind... So sometimes I can't get those snaps... would be nice to get it on an hx4700 because I was thinking the screen would be great for viewing pics (and videos of course) :) I really think a VGA PPC is more of a multimedia rather than a Business PPC but that's just me.

Anyway if the hx4700 doesn't come out with a cam I'd probably get a Sony Ericsson K700i or a Nokia 6260 to match it.

[Janak Parekh]

slightly OFF TOPIC: Doesn't more resolution mean better quality pics??? :D
Not necessarily. The quality of the CCD and lens is just as, if not more, important than raw megapixel.

My experiences with a digital-cam (embedded and not) are limited to the cam on a Nokia 7650 (0.3MP??) and Panasonic SV-AV30 both very low-res (1MP??).
That's a very limited experience. But even there, you may be able to compare your circa 0.3MP and 1MP cameras with other 0.3MP and 1MP cameras and note the quality is not the same across the board.

--janak

[bnycastro]

slightly OFF TOPIC: Doesn't more resolution mean better quality pics??? :D
Not necessarily. The quality of the CCD and lens is just as, if not more, important than raw megapixel.

My experiences with a digital-cam (embedded and not) are limited to the cam on a Nokia 7650 (0.3MP??) and Panasonic SV-AV30 both very low-res (1MP??).
That's a very limited experience. But even there, you may be able to compare your circa 0.3MP and 1MP cameras with other 0.3MP and 1MP cameras and note the quality is not the same across the board.

--janakOk so the components of the camera itself must be of good quality this makes sense :) well hopefully the quality of embedded cameras are not like the side grips on my h22xx :roll:

Off Topic: Any of you guys have any idea when the next OS (windows mobile 2004? or 2005?) is coming out? I might wait for that before I upgrade--since our machines probably won't get the SE updates, I was thinking of getting the next major release (I don't consider SE a major release--unless of course I get to play with it installed and I am convinced otherwise). The GADGETLUST :devilboy: is strong very strong...

[marovada]

mpx mpx mpx mpx....

I hate this buy a ppc every year to get a new OS thing - but I have to agree, I'd buy HP 4700, OQO and Vaio U70 if I had enough money. Just can't control myself, touchpad or no touchpad, it's just too drool worthy and I can't control myself. What a sad sad life.
Sad? Poor, perhaps, but hardly sad. :P

The one thing you're missing there is a cellular device. Perhaps the upcoming Danger Hiptop/T-Mobile Sidekick? :mrgreen:

--janak

[surur]

For the people who feel multi-function devices will always have poor cameras, look at this device:

EnGadget (http://www.engadget.com/entry/6178632430896275/)

http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/6166407973127264.JPG

Samsung swore they’d do come out with a three megapixel cameraphone before the end of the year, and they’ve made good on that promise with the SPH-2300, a beefy little number which looks like a dead ringer for one of Sony’s Cyber-shot digital cameras (at least from the back) and has an optical zoom lens, flash, and a miniSD memory card slot. We’re not even gonna pretend that this’ll ever make it over, this one looks like it’s for the South Korean market only.


And again for the people complaining about program memory: Currently the OS CAN NOT USE MORE THAN 32MB TO RUN PROGRAMS. Ive tried and it just does not work. So even if you had 256Mb it would make no difference to the number of programs you can run concurrently.

What would make a real difference would be storing the my documents folder and whole OS directory (e.g windows/my programs etc) in Flash rom. That would really make our devices bulletproof and battery friendly.

Surur

[Stake]

slightly OFF TOPIC: Doesn't more resolution mean better quality pics???

I will put this into perspective. Remember the incredibly detailed Mars mission images from earlier this year? Well, that camera only had a resolution of 1MP! So with quality sensors, megapixel just doesn't really matter in the end.

Just to add to all the drooling (at least some of you,) I think adding the hx4705 with the newly announced Sony W21s phone, that would be a very sexy pair. The red is just so tempting... The silver and white aren't too shabby either.

[bnycastro]

I will put this into perspective. Remember the incredibly detailed Mars mission images from earlier this year? Well, that camera only had a resolution of 1MP! So with quality sensors, megapixel just doesn't really matter in the end. I didn't know that... wow... ok... wow... ok 8O ... wow

[Jereboam]

I like to think of the ROM/RAM thing as analagous to the HDD/RAM of your desktop or laptop. Then my head stops hurting and it makes sense.

Although I am curious as to comments as to where registry entries and other core (dynamic) OS elements will be stored...surely in ROM? Dammit my head hurts again.

Anyway, my next gadget set will most likely be the 4700 and the K700i. Can't wait.

And having a CF slot still works for me, as I will be able to use the cards straight from my next camera purchase, the Nikon D70, as well as the CF xD card adapter for my point-and-shoot camera from Fuji. The memory card pop-up with Imageer will finally be useful.

J'bm

[surur]

Although I am curious as to comments as to where registry entries and other core (dynamic) OS elements will be stored...surely in ROM? Dammit my head hurts again.


Not as far as I know. I wonder if extensive registry hacking could move the root directory to ROM. That would be a great advance.

Surur

[Jereboam]

Yes, it would make much more sense to have key OS elements in ROM where they are safe and sound, and I can't believe the difference in access times would be important in every day usage.

J'bm

[dma1965]

My next Pocket PC device MUST have a phone built in. I no longer wish to carry 2 devices and if I must carry 2 devices my ipaq 4155/SONY Ericsson T616 combo does everything I want. My next device must have wifi, bluetooth, and GSM/GPRS capabilities. I do not care how fancy pants the other devices are, I WANT INTEGRATION, and an getting sick and tired of waiting for it in the US !!!!

[arnage2]

My next Pocket PC device MUST have a phone built in. I no longer wish to carry 2 devices and if I must carry 2 devices my ipaq 4155/SONY Ericsson T616 combo does everything I want. My next device must have wifi, bluetooth, and GSM/GPRS capabilities. I do not care how fancy pants the other devices are, I WANT INTEGRATION, and an getting sick and tired of waiting for it in the US !!!!

sounds like the ipaq 6300 is exactly what you need

[Jonathon Watkins]

Anyone else wish they put a camera in this thing? I know that there has been a backlash on integrating camera's in stuff

I would like to see atleast a 1.3MP Camera (with Flash if possible) that way this iPAQ would be better equiped for multi-media :D It would be geat for leisure users like me.

BUT, this PDA is aimed at business users who do not want /can not have a camera in any device they use at work or client's sites.

You can get a camera in just about every other new PDA out there - not that I'm bitter or anything! :wink:

[Ryan Joseph]

My next Pocket PC device MUST have a phone built in. I no longer wish to carry 2 devices and if I must carry 2 devices my ipaq 4155/SONY Ericsson T616 combo does everything I want. My next device must have wifi, bluetooth, and GSM/GPRS capabilities. I do not care how fancy pants the other devices are, I WANT INTEGRATION, and an getting sick and tired of waiting for it in the US !!!!

The i-mate (XDA II) does all that except for WiFi. It even has a built in camera and 128MB RAM. Check it out here (http://www.clubimate.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2).

And back on topic: I was in Best Buy the other day and they have almost nothing in the way of PDAs anymore. I guess they must know more about the release date of these new handhelds than we do. I'll bet they're clearing their current inventory to make room for the new stuff. Cool!

[arnage2]

bestbuy has stopped the sale of pdas in their retail stores. thats why they have no stock

[SteveHoward999]

My next Pocket PC device MUST have a phone built in. I no longer wish to carry 2 devices and if I must carry 2 devices my ipaq 4155/SONY Ericsson T616 combo does everything I want. My next device must have wifi, bluetooth, and GSM/GPRS capabilities. I do not care how fancy pants the other devices are, I WANT INTEGRATION, and an getting sick and tired of waiting for it in the US !!!!

I like that my phone is small and has a minumum 2 week battery life.

I like the fact that my PDA is larger and has a screen that is usable for reading boks and other things that I use it for.

I do not need a 6 inch by 5 inch pocket phone ,... it is too big and cumbersome for my needs.

I do not need a 2 inch by 3.5 inch PDA. It is too small and fiddly for my PDA needs.


I do NOT want integration.



See there is always 2 sides to an argument :devilboy:

[Janak Parekh]

mpx mpx mpx mpx....
D'oh, of course. But I'm trying to avoid multiple Pocket PCs. I carry two now (i700 and e805), and it's a bit of a hassle to sync data and programs. So I'm trying to look broader. :P

--janak

[Ryan Joseph]

bestbuy has stopped the sale of pdas in their retail stores. thats why they have no stock

Really? Do you have a link? Why in the world would they do that? I mean, I've never purchased a PDA from a retail store myself, but I know many who have. That seems like too big a market to stop all together. :?

[Stake]

bestbuy has stopped the sale of pdas in their retail stores. thats why they have no stock

Really? Do you have a link? Why in the world would they do that? I mean, I've never purchased a PDA from a retail store myself, but I know many who have. That seems like too big a market to stop all together. :?

I've seen only one store out of 3 in my area carry a poor selection of PDAs. Poor meaning, 2-3. I think that the places that don't carry them are no longer ordering them. The ones that do have them are older stock which they just want to get rid of. I believe that it's people who have abused the return/insurance policy which ticked off BB and vowed to never sell PDAs as it probably lost them money than made it. Instead of PDAs, I've seen Portable Media Players in its place.

Here's what someone wrote about in Feburary:
Every few weeks, I like to look at the weekly circulars from the local retailers here like 6th Ave. Electronics, CompUSA, Best Buy, Circuit City and others. It’s a good way to see what the retailers and vendors are hawking and a way of spotting some interesting trends. This week, Best Buy no longer advertised any PDAs. No Pocket PCs, no CLIEs no Palms. Nothing. I called around to a few places and was told each time that Best Buy was not stocking PDAs anymore and that stock was limited to what’s on hand. (seems there are some good buys in some of these locations for you bargain hunters).

The entire statement is here:
http://weblogs.jupiterresearch.com/analysts/gartenberg/archives/002251.html

Some more stuff on Groups.Google:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=un3dc.1728616%24iA2.204966%40news.easynews.com&rnum=6&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dbest%2520buy%2520no%2520pda%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DN%26tab%3Dwg

[badbob001]

I'm sure shortly after release they will come out with a 4710, which will have 128MB of RAM. Unfortunately, it will also have a built-in camera. :)

[ricoks]

I just stopped by Best Buy yesterday, and asked them to look it up in their system, to see when it was going to come in, if at all. They guy found it listed as a HP hx4705!!!! :)
Better yet, it had a delivery date of Aug 1!!!!!!! :D
Even better yet, tho, was the price it was listed at: $499 8O

THIS ROCKS!!!!

and it can still make sense, because if I was taking preorders, and didn't know the exact price, yet, i would aim real high as well, and then have to refund ppl, instead of ask them to pay more!!!!

THIS IS AWESOME :mrgreen:

anyone confirm this as well?

anyone wanna check?!

Ryan

[huangzhinong]

I just stopped by Best Buy yesterday, and asked them to look it up in their system, to see when it was going to come in, if at all. They guy found it listed as a HP hx4705!!!! :)
Better yet, it had a delivery date of Aug 1!!!!!!! :D
Even better yet, tho, was the price it was listed at: $499 8O

THIS ROCKS!!!!

and it can still make sense, because if I was taking preorders, and didn't know the exact price, yet, i would aim real high as well, and then have to refund ppl, instead of ask them to pay more!!!!

THIS IS AWESOME :mrgreen:

anyone confirm this as well?

anyone wanna check?!

Ryan

Are you Mape? :D

[ricoks]

I just stopped by Best Buy yesterday, and asked them to look it up in their system, to see when it was going to come in, if at all. They guy found it listed as a HP hx4705!!!! :)
Better yet, it had a delivery date of Aug 1!!!!!!! :D
Even better yet, tho, was the price it was listed at: $499 8O

THIS ROCKS!!!!

and it can still make sense, because if I was taking preorders, and didn't know the exact price, yet, i would aim real high as well, and then have to refund ppl, instead of ask them to pay more!!!!

THIS IS AWESOME :mrgreen:

anyone confirm this as well?

anyone wanna check?!

Ryan

Are you Mape? :D

Sorry, Mape????!!!!

dunno that one..............

[alex_kac]

After I read the article again, I found the author mentioned PocketInformant was bundled. Does anybody know if it is a full version? Alex mentioned he didn't get a good reply from HP in his website. So I guess this one must be a trial version.

I have never mentioned anything related to unannounced products from other companies.

[jpjehu]

something super important for me to even consider hp's over asus's is whether or not the insertion slot is the same as the previous ppc's - 5555, 2215, 4155, etc. I have a few accessories that would be great to be able to use...anyone got an answer?

[Janak Parekh]

something super important for me to even consider hp's over asus's is whether or not the insertion slot is the same as the previous ppc's - 5555, 2215, 4155, etc. I have a few accessories that would be great to be able to use...anyone got an answer?
Do you mean the sync connector?

I haven't seen any pictures of it, so we'll likely have to wait until more information leaks or until the unit is officially released to find out.

--janak

[mar2k]

Are you Mape? :D


Sorry, Mape????!!!!

dunno that one..............

Mape is the guy over at Brighthand that always posts he has every hot Pocket PC before everyone else but he is full of s&@!.

See here:
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=1307f3f28897fa94f4038f02be13495a&threadid=107592

[Janak Parekh]

Mape is the guy over at Brighthand that always posts he has every hot Pocket PC before everyone else but he is full of s&@!.
Thanks for the heads-up, but if you look at ricoks's history, he seems like a legit user, so let's get back on topic. Thanks! :)

--janak

[abnorm]

Yeah it's not bad, but how does it compare to this portable system?
http://www.old-computers.com/fun/stupid_scans/stupid_dai-tallar.jpg

[Mitch D]

Yeah it's not bad, but how does it compare to this portable system?
http://www.old-computers.com/fun/stupid_scans/stupid_dai-tallar.jpg

:rofl: Where can I get myself one of those? I doubt a belt clip will hold it so I might have to find a shoulder holster for it...

Hmmm before someone has a chance to hit me with a :nonono: I am am really looking forward to the release of the HX4700, I love my Dell but I am looking forward to getting back into an iPaq and even though this one is a tad expensive I will just have to save my pennies (and nickles, dimes, quarters... heck $100's) to buy one when they come out.

[pdagal]

The ASUS 730, like the Toshiba e805, requires an adapter cable to use USB host. The cable terminates in a standard USB port just like you'd find on your notebook or USB hub. I have the 730 sitting in front of me now for a review I'll be writing.



No, it doesn't. But E80X need adapter for usb host, so seems only better than nothing. Loox 720, mitac 558 and asus a 730 provide direct USB host.

[ricoks]

Mape is the guy over at Brighthand that always posts he has every hot Pocket PC before everyone else but he is full of s&@!.
Thanks for the heads-up, but if you look at ricoks's history, he seems like a legit user, so let's get back on topic. Thanks! :)

--janak

Nope, just Rico (ks)!!! I don't claim to have the device, just some info regarding it...........
Anyway, if this Best Buy computer system was up to date, which I assume it is, and have no reason to think otherwise, that means their warehouses will have them in 2 wks, and they will only be $499. This is MUCH better than the $650. I too want to play with the touchpad, as this will be WAY different, but otherwise has everything I've been waiting for!!!
GO HP!!!
keep it up I say!
What I want to know is, according to some pics, and assumptions, is whether this has USB host built in. some pics show the bottom with a small opening that sure 'looks' like one..................
MAN, I hope so!!!
Cant' wait!

Ryan
(ricoks)

[huangzhinong]

If ony $499, I will buy one instantly. I won't care about the touchpad at all at this price. :D

[Kati Compton]

The ASUS 730, like the Toshiba e805, requires an adapter cable to use USB host. The cable terminates in a standard USB port just like you'd find on your notebook or USB hub. I have the 730 sitting in front of me now for a review I'll be writing.
Is the cable included?

[pdagal]

No it's not. ASUS says it should cost around $20.


Is the cable included?

[Mark Johnson]

I just stopped by Best Buy yesterday, and asked them to look it up in their system, to see when it was going to come in, if at all. They guy found it listed as a HP hx4705!!!! :)
Better yet, it had a delivery date of Aug 1!!!!!!! :D
Even better yet, tho, was the price it was listed at: $499 8O


anyone confirm this as well?

anyone wanna check?!

Ryan

I got over to my local Best Buy this evening. At first the sales guy couldn't find it, but sure enough, eventually he dug up a listing for "HP hx4705" in the system.

The price was shown and was indeed $499.

Also, the "delivery date" was 8/1/2004 although he did clarify that both this store, and all the "regional" stores (California), had "none" shown for "on order" status so he was pretty confused about when the units might actually show up.

[Stake]

It would definately be wonderful to see the price point at $499, but I think that was just an early estimate. I do hope that I'm wrong...very wrong.

The fact that none are on order also questions my feeling on why BB suddenly wants to get back into the PDA market. I don't think the 4705 would make any difference even though this is a great device.

And about that nice PDA comparison table...is it right when it said "USB 2.0" for synching? If that's true, it's about darn time!

[Jonathon Watkins]

And about that nice PDA comparison table...is it right when it said "USB 2.0" for synching? If that's true, it's about darn time!

Ah - wow - missed that. 8O Now THAT would be Good! 8)

[Jereboam]

I think there's a diddy 3 by it which leads to a note that says not confirmed...

J'bm

[jgrnt1]

I think the "3" was for USB host capability, not syncing. I hope it has USB host capability. I miss it. I have a 20GB Archos portable drive that I used with my 3650 and a PC Card adapter, via a CF sleeve and a CF-to-PC Card adapter. Then I got a Toshiba e550g, which had USB hosting via a cable, and I used the drive with its usb adapter. I've had a 2215 for almost a year and miss being able to use the Archos drive. I could buy a CF to USB adapter, but it's hard to justify at $130, when my next PPC might not have a CF slot.

[SeanH]

USB 1.1 had two speeds. 1.5Mb for keyboard like devices and 12Mb for faster devices. USB 2.0 add a new mode called “High Speed” that runs at 480Mb. USB 2.0 renamed the old speeds to “Full Speed” for 12Mb and “Low Speed” for 1.5Mb. Most devices shipping outside of USB HD’s run at “Full Speed” 12Mb. I am sure the PDA supports “Full Speed USB 2.0” 12Mb, the same speed as older PDA’s.

Sean

[beq]

Having a separate touchpad seems in one sense to be going backwards. Makes sense for a normal laptop. But a PDA already has a touchscreen -- the main display itself :? I can see this touchpad following laptop trend to become its own secondary color touchscreen eventually. But two displays stacked on the front face doesn't seem to make much sense for a traditional PDA (unlike the dual displays of cellphones with hinged design)...

Then again, maybe this will have the functionality of the iPod's solid-state control wheel?

[Janak Parekh]

Having a separate touchpad seems in one sense to be going backwards. Makes sense for a normal laptop. But a PDA already has a touchscreen -- the main display itself :?
Yes, except that I don't mind using my finger on the touchpad. I do use it occasionally on the screen, but only gently and it's generally not accurate.

Then again, maybe this will have the functionality of the iPod's solid-state control wheel?
I'm imagining a program could set it up that way. :) Well, not in a wheel, but at least left-to-right.

--janak

[atsouch]

We just got an email from a Greek major distributor that the availability date for hx4700, rx3700 and rz1710 will be August 13th. Friday the 13th and the opening of the Olympic Games in Athens...

I hope that this info is true! :D

[Kai920]

My next Pocket PC device MUST have a phone built in. I no longer wish to carry 2 devices and if I must carry 2 devices my ipaq 4155/SONY Ericsson T616 combo does everything I want. My next device must have wifi, bluetooth, and GSM/GPRS capabilities. I do not care how fancy pants the other devices are, I WANT INTEGRATION, and an getting sick and tired of waiting for it in the US !!!!

I hear ya. I used to have a Palm Zire 71 and an old Nokia cell phone, then got a O2 XDA I from my father (who barely used it because he didn't bother learning how :roll: ) and instantly fell in love with the integration idea.

I had my eyes set on either the upcoming HP 6300 or the MDA 3 (or the XDA2 once prices drop), but does anyone know, if any VGA resolution PDAs WITH GSM/GPRS capabilities are coming out soon? This is really my only dilemma... do I go with
1) VGA PDA+BT cell phone combo, or
2) QVGA 6300 / MDA3?

[beq]

My next Pocket PC device MUST have a phone built in. I no longer wish to carry 2 devices and if I must carry 2 devices my ipaq 4155/SONY Ericsson T616 combo does everything I want. My next device must have wifi, bluetooth, and GSM/GPRS capabilities. I do not care how fancy pants the other devices are, I WANT INTEGRATION, and an getting sick and tired of waiting for it in the US !!!!

I hear ya. I used to have a Palm Zire 71 and an old Nokia cell phone, then got a O2 XDA I from my father (who barely used it because he didn't bother learning how :roll: ) and instantly fell in love with the integration idea.

I had my eyes set on either the upcoming HP 6300 or the MDA 3 (or the XDA2 once prices drop), but does anyone know, if any VGA resolution PDAs WITH GSM/GPRS capabilities are coming out soon? This is really my only dilemma... do I go with
1) VGA PDA+BT cell phone combo, or
2) QVGA 6300 / MDA3?
Therein lies the rub (no VGA) :| Anyways I would love a roundup comparison of the upcoming PPC Phone Edition models like the two you mention and the MPX (and any other?).

Also don't forget a BT headset like BlueSpoon Digital for the handsfree solution (when driving or using both hands). So the option for me:
1) VGA PPC + BT cell phone + BT headset
2) QVGA PPC PE + BT headset

P.S. I would love some PPC PE to have a built-in (flush) cradle for the BlueSpoon so I don't have to worry about where to store it on my person...

[ricksfiona]

I never understood why people are so gung-ho on safe store areas.

Adding more RAM to a Pocket PC (say, 128 MB) means it needs more power to keep that RAM lit up. Flash ROM costs no power when the device is off. For that reason alone, nothing else, I want to see more Flash ROM and less RAM.

Yeah, the lack of a flip cover sucks. I can't believe how stubborn HP is being about this. :roll:
Yes, but isn't Flash ROM slower than RAM. I run TransACT and database actions can use all the speed they can get. Though you can still have about 80MB that I use this for... But how about video playback.. Won't the Flash ROM slow things down. Games?

I'd rather carry an extra battery than give up speed.

[ricksfiona]

Isn't the whole point of dual slots is the ability to add more flash storage to the device and still be able to use other add-ons? If I want more flash, I'll get myself a 1GB+ SD card. But oh, if I want more RAM, the most I can hope for is to send my device to someone's garage workshop for some surgery. Hey HP, if you're trying to save me from needing to buy a SD card, why not keep the change and give me a real dpad! I think 64MB of flash is more expensive than 64MB of ram anyway.

And remember, the PocketPC was never designed to be conservative with its memory usage (no CLOSE app button!), so the more the better! Now, how will they come out with a N64 emulator with just 64MB of RAM to play with?

And I bet all the Windows Mobile 2005 devices will have 128+MB of memory and you're stuck with a device not worth upgrading. But HP knows that so they're trying to condition its customers to think of their devices as being disposable (eg: no 2003SE upgrades for you!).

Hmm, is there another reason for needing 128MB of ROM space? Does HP secretly has a linux 4700 in the works? Or does Windows Mobile 2005 need 100MB of space?

In other news, I bet the flip cover is transparent so one can use the trackpad to navigate. If that is the case, it'll be lame compared to a jogdial! If it really is the son of the jornada, where is the jogdial? No wonder it has a magnesian shell... everyone will be dropping it from trying to drag-and-tap with one hand. I wonder if app buttons are part of the trackpad. If they are, then those people that like simultaneous-button/dpad presses are going to riot.

But hey, like with Howard Stern, I'm sure the haters will still want to try it out. :)

Wow, this makes really good sense. I love my iPAQ 5555 with it's plentiful RAM. With the overclocker app, I can get up to about 524MHz, which is REALLY close to my ideal PDA. If ONLY it had faster video, it WOULD be perfect.

To me, the extra Flash ROM is a waste. When you're spending this kind of money on a PDA, you want performance. If you want storage, get a CF/SD card.

I was totally excited when I thought the hx4700 was going to have 128MB of RAM w/624MHz CPU & VGA. With this lame idea of 128MB Flash ROM, I think I'm going to wait until someone get's it right. The Toshiba is looking real good right now.

[ricksfiona]

For the people who feel multi-function devices will always have poor cameras, look at this device:

EnGadget (http://www.engadget.com/entry/6178632430896275/)

http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/6166407973127264.JPG

Samsung swore they’d do come out with a three megapixel cameraphone before the end of the year, and they’ve made good on that promise with the SPH-2300, a beefy little number which looks like a dead ringer for one of Sony’s Cyber-shot digital cameras (at least from the back) and has an optical zoom lens, flash, and a miniSD memory card slot. We’re not even gonna pretend that this’ll ever make it over, this one looks like it’s for the South Korean market only.


And again for the people complaining about program memory: Currently the OS CAN NOT USE MORE THAN 32MB TO RUN PROGRAMS. Ive tried and it just does not work. So even if you had 256Mb it would make no difference to the number of programs you can run concurrently.

What would make a real difference would be storing the my documents folder and whole OS directory (e.g windows/my programs etc) in Flash rom. That would really make our devices bulletproof and battery friendly.

Surur

Okay, how about if you have a database application in RAM AND the database file(s) in RAM as well. You don't want the database on FLASH "whatever" cause of the performance hit. In this instance, it is possible to not have enough RAM. So if you have a 60MB database, this doesn't leave you much space for anything else. Right?

[Janak Parekh]

Okay, how about if you have a database application in RAM AND the database file(s) in RAM as well. You don't want the database on FLASH "whatever" cause of the performance hit. In this instance, it is possible to not have enough RAM. So if you have a 60MB database, this doesn't leave you much space for anything else. Right?
You're probably right - the hx4700 wouldn't be optimized for that. (That said, good luck executing an SQL query on a 60MB database on a Pocket PC. 8O)

--janak

[Radimus]

bluetooth :way to go:
integrated CF & SDIO :way to go:
Flip cover like journada? :way to go:
touchpad on a touchscreen device :?:
Consumer IR :twisted:

Wish list:
miniUSB port to use device as flash drive
expansion sleeves with additional battery and USB port for mouse/kbd
expansion sleeve (or card) with GSM/GPRS cell phone

I don't care as much for weight, as I do functionality, within reason of course.

[Duncan]

I think the "3" was for USB host capability, not syncing. I hope it has USB host capability. I miss it.

Yes - that is what it was for. The 4705 will have USB 2.0 (according to several reliable sources) but USB host is still an unconfirmed rumour. Both the Asus a730 and Loox 720 will have definitely have USB host capability however.

[Duncan]

I just checked the FCC site and High Tech Computer (HTC) was approved for another PDA today. There are no details other than the FCC ID: NM8BALI as of 4:30PM. Description only says "PDA w/WLAN and Bluetooth."

I'm gonna take a stab and say that it's the 4705 because the 3700 and the 6300 series were approved several weeks ago. The 170x doesn't have any wireless features.

Not necessarily - the Loox 720 will be an HTC device too. Usually FFC approval comes after Bluetooth qualification - as yet the iPAQ 4705 has not been qualified.

As I suspected - NM8BALI is indeed the Loox 720 (the documentation only appeared today despite the entry being up for the past week! - full coverge etc. at www.firstloox.org) That means that out of the the upcoming trinity of VGA Pocket PCs, only the iPAQ hx4705 has yet to be approved. Still not been Bluetooth certified either - which may mean the new iPAQ is delayed...?!