MIPS Isn't Dead -- Yet

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/news_8382.html' target='_blank'>http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/news_8382.html</a><br /><br /></div>Despite ARM's <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=263723">increasing dominance</a>, MIPS development still continues.<br /><br /><i>"Nope, MIPS is not dead...now Toshiba is showing off their TX9956CXBG-666 and 555 models (the last three figures stand for the speed in MHz)...the big difference is that these babies are 64bit instead of the usual 32bit."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20040715-MIPS.jpg" /><br /><br />Admittedly, you won't see MIPS in Pocket PCs or other mainstream PDAs any time soon, since they've all standardized on ARM chips, but MIPS has its applications in embedded Linux solutions, amongst others. I'd love to see performance comparisons between XScale and these new 64-bit (tiny) beasts. ;)

[arnage2]

do you think this means that we could see a 64bit Zaurus?

[Janak Parekh]

do you think this means that we could see a 64bit Zaurus?
If Sharp decides to adopt these chips, sure. ;)

--janak

[felixdd]

I remember reading from somewhere that on the whole, MIPS chips are faster (for gaming? I forgot the context) than ARM chips. Is this true?

[Gerard]

That depends on whether you let bSquare do the optimisation or not. If you do, a 666MHz MIPS chip might just end up slower than a 400MHz X-scale, unless they've actually learned from their butchering of the various chips they 'optimised' for Casio.

Sorry, I've long since lost any direct references for the above. Just a bitter memory now anyway, as the old EG-800 is semi-retired, being used by a happy 10-yar-old.

[epdm]

That depends on whether you let bSquare do the optimisation or not. If you do, a 666MHz MIPS chip might just end up slower than a 400MHz X-scale, unless they've actually learned from their butchering of the various chips they 'optimised' for Casio.

Sorry, I've long since lost any direct references for the above. Just a bitter memory now anyway, as the old EG-800 is semi-retired, being used by a happy 10-yar-old.

I presume that EG-800 uses a MIPS cpu? I think that since Microsoft ditched support for both SH3 and Mips cpu's with PPC2002 you are bittered since you obviously made the wrong choice by obtaining this Casio PDA. It doesn't mean that that particular PDA is a bad piece of technology.
As for speed, well it usually is a matter of optimisation. If software companies develop software optimised or solely for that particular type of cpu than things can get really fast. For a few examples look at Risc OS that's being used in Acorn/Castle machines and only works on (certain) ARM-cpu based systems. Or just look at MenuetOS a highly x86 optimised OS written mostly in x86 assembler http://www.menuetos.org/ for your average PC. In fact just fire up MacOS 9.1 or 9.2 which is highly optimised and runs really fast compared to MacOS X.

Propietary and closed source don't necesarily mean "bad" though MenuatOS is open source.

OPh Gerad. Things can change so rapidly. At least consumers (usually) have the ability to set things right again by buying the "right" stuff. While companies can go down with thos mistakes. Look at e.g. Psion. They made the best Pocketable computer once. Where are they now?

Regards,

Manu T

[Gerard]

epdm wrote:
I presume that EG-800 uses a MIPS cpu? I think that since Microsoft ditched support for both SH3 and Mips cpu's with PPC2002 you are bittered since you obviously made the wrong choice by obtaining this Casio PDA. It doesn't mean that that particular PDA is a bad piece of technology.

Yes indeed, the Casio EG-800 does have a MIPS VR4122 processor, with a rating of 150MHz. Here on PocketPCThoughts and in a few other places, about 3 years ago, various articles and discussions took place around this particular CPU. bSquare had been contracted by Microsoft to optimise the chip. They blew it, rendering what should have been a CPU delivering performance something close to an ARM 206MHz to instead behave not all that differently from its predecessor, the MIPS VR4121, a 133MHz found in the older Casio E-115. The VR4122 was shared by several Casio models, th EG-800 being the 'industrial' high-end of the line, then the E-125 and EM-500 the other two. All three are physically ideal for gaming, with the best button layout of any PPC ever made, and the EG-800 epitomised that particular aspect with the best-designed buttons of all with amazing tactile response and reliability. The HAST screens on this family of devices have still not been equalled for indoor use, delivering better contrast control and image clarity than any reflective, transflective, or other screen type. Expandability of the EG-800 and E-125 was better out-of-the-box than any iPAQ, given the CF Type II slot. At the time, as much software was being released for MIPS as for ARM, or very close to it.

My complaint is not about the device being inadequate, or 'bad', though the one currently under this roof is #5 thanks to a series of funny and frustrating hardware failures under the first year warranty period. The current unit needs monthly fussing with the CF slot to get it to recognise CF cards of any type. Reboots are inconsistent, often failing to load all elements. Sometimes, just in the past month, the digitiser fails to recognise input for hours at a time, then suddenly starts working again just as mysteriously. But no, I'm not complaining here about the machine itself, as I have done so abundantly here in the past:
http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14140&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

All I'm complaining about, and it's a bit late, I know, is that bSquare blew it. The EG-800/E-125 (and E-750 in Japan) should have been speed demons, rendering better video and screen redraw than they do. I doubt that Microsoft or whoever is responsible for farming out the optimisation (if it's to be farmed out at all, which seems unlikely this time) of these new MIPS chips will hand it over to bSquare... a company which seems to survive by miracles rather than sound business practice. There have been other published stories regarding their mis-behavior, some a lot worse than a mere set of errors on a chip, and overall they leave a somewhat nasty smell in the air.

But that aside, I do hope to see an eventual re-adoption of the MIPS format into mobile devices. I generally found my Casio E-115 to be a very stable machine, and liked the way it worked compared to these ARM boxes I use now. And those screens... oh, if only there were some way to deliver that kind of quality and outdoor usability at the same time. People are still amazed when I show them the Casio screen. It's just beautiful. Nothing better for graphics work in the PPC market, ever.