i am a bad person because i smoke!

[Kowalski]

Smoking a disaster, the worse addiction i have. I hate myself because i cant help my self and quit smoking. I tried several times but it didnt work.
But the easiest thing is finding excuses: hard working , stress and blah blah.

In my country smoking rate is very high. Most of my friends smoke, even my boss, he is a heavy smoker! When we discuss something in his room, everytime we start a fog of smoke :(

I bealive that in Europa people show less tolerant to smoking people. Is this true? According to laws, if you smoke in a closed place you have to pay about 150$ but yesterday i read that there has been noone who is forced to pay this money!!!

[Jon Westfall]

I really sympathize with you on one key issue in your story - the fact that if everyone is smoking, you can't really escape it (i.e. the fog of smoke), hence you'll be more tempted to start again if you quit.

In the US, we've been cracking down steadily over the past 20 years on where and when people can smoke. In probably 90% of buildings here (i.e. office buildings, government buildings, etc..) smoking is prohibited. There usually aren't posted fines or punishments for smoking, people just accept it and smoke outside the doors. In restaurants, the once large smoking section has been getting smaller and smaller in the past few years, with some restaurants cutting it out all together.

If you need incentive to quit smoking, just remember the facts. Smoking WILL kill you in some way eventually. You will die earlier and (unfortunatly) more painfully than you would if you quit smoking today or tomorrow. Think about where you'll be in 30 - 50 years. Will you have kids or grandkids who you want to spend time with? Will you have friends who you've waited until retirement to spend time with only to find you don't have the time? Stuff like that usually can motivate you.

And if you need some pocketPC help along the way, I've heard good things about "My Last Cigarette" from Mastersoft.

Good luck,
Jon.

[shawnc]

Kowalski,

Good luck in your quest to quit. Just something to provide you with a little added (as if you need it) incentive, especially if you have kids. I lost both parents (my dad 3 weeks ago) to cancer. Forget what you see on TV, it is an ugly disease that strips one of all diginity. No doubt that my parents biggest regret was witnessing what their children went through during the dying process.

Another story, my brother in law once told me that he kicked cocaine, alcohol, and some other elicit drugs once he decided to straighten up. But of all the drugs he has tried, the one he could not kick is nicotene. Make no mistake, it's a drug. And the only reason it's legal is because governments can make money off of it. They are knowingly contributing to the dying all in the name of money. What a shame.

Keep at it. The fact that you recognize the problem is a good first step to conquering it. Good luck.

[chunkymonkey75]

...sorry to hear about your parents, shawnc.

After seeing an aunt, an uncle, and a co-worker all die a painful death and am so very glad to have never started smoking. My aunt died from second-hand smoke. A week after, my father quite smoking for good (that was in 1990).

[Kati Compton]

Sorry to hear about your parents shawnc. :(

My mother quit a while back. My stepfather quit after a successful operation to remove the cancerous part of his lung. My father still smokes. My brother started I think in late high school, even though he always hated it as a kid when people would smoke (apart from the cool smoke rings dad would blow...) In addition to the other stories here about the addictive nature of cigarettes, I'll add another. My father is the most laid-back person ever, apart from occasional driving or parking anger at people stealing spots, cutting him off, etc. But really, apart from that, he's waaaaay relaxed.

Except about cigarettes. When I was a kid, I apparently begged him one too many times to quit smoking. He got MAD at me. To my kid eyes, I'd never seen my father so angry about anything. I mean, I'm sure he has been... but that incident really stuck in my head. I don't ask him to quit anymore, I just don't let him smoke in my house or car. I try to angle us to non-smoking sections at restaurants. And I just worry about it and get depressed. It's really rather upsetting.

[Jacob]

shawnc - my most sincere condolences.

Kowalski, I quit smoking about 2 and a half years ago and haven't had a single cigarrette since. It was THE best thing I've ever done for myself.

For me, I got a number of suggestions of techniques at www.quitsmoking.com were very useful for me.

It is worth it - within two days of not smoking I felt I could breathe more clearly and felt better overall.

If you want any help/advice, feel free to PM me.

[Fishie]

I really need to quit myself.

[dh]

Sorry to hear about your parents Shawn. Both my parents smoked and my mother ended up with throat cancer, although surgery luckely saved her.

One of the nice things about being in the US is that most places are smoke free. I hate it when I have to go back to Europe and feel as though I need to throw my clothes away because they smell so bad.

[Pony99CA]

And if you need some pocketPC help along the way, I've heard good things about "My Last Cigarette" from Mastersoft.
Check out the review of "My Last Cigarette" (http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=reviews&id=427) at pocketnow. Apparently it's for people who have actually stopped smoking (or at least think they have :-)).

Steve (who fortunately doesn't smoke)

[Pat Logsdon]

Very sorry to hear about your parents, shawnc. My dad has smoked for his entire life and I don't think he'll quit soon. He smoked a pipe for years, and now he smokes cigarettes.

I smoke the occasional pipe, maybe once every other month, and a clove cigarette every once in awhile. I've never been even remotely tempted to start smoking on a regular basis.

I think the best arguments against smoking are a) what's in them, (http://www.thetruth.com/issues/crazyworld/index.cfm) and b) what they do to your lungs. (https://ssl.koerperwelten.de/images/shop_produkte/0087pct_b.jpg) Warning: the lungs link shows ACTUAL lungs from the BodyWorlds exhibits. For the first link, check out the television spots.

[Jacob]

And if you need some pocketPC help along the way, I've heard good things about "My Last Cigarette" from Mastersoft.
Check out the review of "My Last Cigarette" (http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=reviews&id=427) at pocketnow. Apparently it's for people who have actually stopped smoking (or at least think they have :-)).

Steve (who fortunately doesn't smoke)

I used an app similar to that when I quit - except for the PC.

It was very nice to have to provide motivation - seeing how much money you saved by not smoking helps you realize how much money you waste on it.

[Janak Parekh]

One of the nice things about being in the US is that most places are smoke free.
Agreed, 100%. I have to thank Mayor Mike over here for banning smoking from bars and restaurants. In my opinion, it's the best thing that ever happened to NYC. My boss also stopped smoking except outside, which benefits us as well. :) Kowalski, from what I've heard from my friends' experiences, that'll be one of the most difficult things -- going out to dinner or a bar and resisting a casual smoke.

shawnc, I'm also very sorry to hear about your story. :(

--janak

[milkman dan]

Where I work, we all pile into the back of a white van and drive about 1 hour to our work site. The back of the van's roof is literally brown from cigarrete smoke, it is discusting! BTW, how much are cigarettes out where you live? out here they are almost $10 canadian for a pack of 25 :(

[shawnc]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this site is the best thing going. I am SINCERELY touched by the expressions of sorrow shown over my parents. Thank you all very much.

Hang with it kowalski. It's not going to be easy, but you can do it!

[hollis_f]

If you need incentive to quit smoking, just remember the facts. Smoking WILL kill you in some way eventually.
I'm afraid you've fallen under the spell of the anti-smoking propaganda. If you smoke for 50 years then your chance of getting lung cancer by the age of 70 are 16% - That's just one chance in 7. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes not related to smoking. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes related to smoking.

Yes, it's a horrible habit. But trying to scare people with obvious untruths (everybody my age will have known elderly relatives that smoked) will just dilute the real facts.

[Kowalski]

First of all i want to say that i am very greatfull to you all, your help will be invaluable for sure.

Pony, thank you for your advice on My Last Cigarette, this program seems to be very helpfull
I smoke the occasional pipe, maybe once every other month, and a clove cigarette every once in awhile
It gives real delightfull to smoke only one or two cigarettes a day, but if you smoke a packet like me it looses all its taste and becomes a compulsion

Kowalski, from what I've heard from my friends' experiences, that'll be one of the most difficult things -- going out to dinner or a bar and resisting a casual smoke.
janag, you cant imagine how hard this is :(

out here they are almost $10 canadian for a pack of 25

this is an obstical in our country, a pack of Marlboro is 1.75$ only :evil: a 15 year old school kid can buy one pack a day easily

[Jon Westfall]

If you need incentive to quit smoking, just remember the facts. Smoking WILL kill you in some way eventually.
I'm afraid you've fallen under the spell of the anti-smoking propaganda. If you smoke for 50 years then your chance of getting lung cancer by the age of 70 are 16% - That's just one chance in 7. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes not related to smoking. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes related to smoking.

Yes, it's a horrible habit. But trying to scare people with obvious untruths (everybody my age will have known elderly relatives that smoked) will just dilute the real facts.

No, I'm not mistaken on that statement. Smoking kills not only though lung cancer. A variety of other cancers can be caused by smoking, as well. Also, smoking complicates other health issues that will lead to an early death as well (When was the last time you saw a regular smoker that could jog without gasping?).

There are the exceptions, people whose body chemistry just seems to be immune. My grandmother smoked for 75 years and died at age 92, from multiple issues (Including a collapsed lung).

And if you don't want to believe me on a physical level, look at it psychologically. How many times have you seen smokers suffer from withdrawal and are literally ready to jump out a window to get a cigarette. That time adds up and if you want to get technical, really deprives your life of other activities. I don't think I'd want to have to plan my day around when I could take smoke breaks (Which I have friends who do). Also, many people don't want to date or be around smokers. So there is another socially interactive psychological element there - loss of friends, romance, etc...

Smoking also kills financially, as others have noted. It isn't cheap (Except for kowalski, unfortunatly)

So I stand by my statement, cigarettes will eventually help you meet your maker a bit sooner than if you hadn't smoked them. If I had wanted to scare people by diluting the facts, I would have stated that smoking made you turn green and grow a third eye or something. Now that's scary.

And shawnc, I as well am sorry to hear of your loss.

[shawnc]

I'm afraid you've fallen under the spell of the anti-smoking propaganda.

If you smoke for 50 years then your chance of getting lung cancer by the age of 70 are 16% - That's just one chance in 7. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes not related to smoking. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes related to smoking.


Hollis - Are you kiddin me???? Anit-smoking propoganda? The problem with statistics is that you can use them to make a case for two totally contradictory positions. I'm not certain where you get the stats you use, but trust me, my research indicates that the proportion of smokers who will die from smoking-related complications is MUCH higher 50%.

But the heck with statistics. Just ask yourself a simple question - how many long-term smokers do you know who died of old age? In my case (and I'm truly not exagerating) my guess is less than 5% of the long-term smokers I have come in contact with (mostly friends of my parents) died of old age. That leaves 95% to some other cause and my guess (and that's all it is) is that the overwhelming majority of those died from smoking-related illness/complications. I understand that Black folks don't always get the best, or highest quality, health care, so it's possible that race is a factor. Even allowing for that, those are some l-o-n-g odds that I wouldn't want to mess around with.

I understand your point of diluting the message with false scare tactics. I just don't think that has occurred in this thread, or the post you reference.

[Jon Westfall]

I'm afraid you've fallen under the spell of the anti-smoking propaganda.

If you smoke for 50 years then your chance of getting lung cancer by the age of 70 are 16% - That's just one chance in 7. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes not related to smoking. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes related to smoking.


Hollis - Are you kiddin me???? Anit-smoking propoganda? The problem with statistics is that you can use them to make a case for two totally contradictory positions.

Hollis has simply framed the data to fit in with his belief. I'm reminded of a question posed in a child psych class once: Do older mothers give birth to more babies with birth defects than younger mothers? The class responded yes - as you age your risk of birth defects grows. The professor laughed and said "But younger mothers give birth to FAR more children than older mothers do, so they actually give birth to more babies with birth defects because the volume is larger".

Same thing here. Your odds of dying of other things are WAY higher than lung cancer (i.e. heart disease), but using that to justify smoking as harmless is insane.

And 1 in 7 are NOT odds I want to take knowing the horrible way lung cancer rips someone apart. If the odds of the lottery were 1 in 7, people would be playing it constantly.


I understand your point of diluting the message with false scare tactics. I just don't think that has occurred in this thread, or the post you reference.

Thank you Shawnc. I don't mean to scare people, I just think denial is a very real problem in society today. If I can help someone realize they need to look out for their health better, that's my goal. But not by scaring them.

[tanalasta]

Right... I was going to refrain from posting 'ere given the controversy but I'm definitely anti-smoking.

Random tidbits...
1. <5% people quit just because their Doctor tells them to do so. But the fact that a small proportion do make it all worthwhile.
2. If you are not willing to give up smoking, there's no way you will succeed. You have got to WANT to.
3. Apart from the fact lung cancer is horrible and almost certain to kill you if it get it, eventually it is the disabling effects of smoking which are more commonplace, and significant. Every year you smoke decreases your lung function - i.e. your lungs 'age' or deteriorate much faster than they should. Stopping smoking does not reverse this damage - it only means your lungs start deteriorating at the same rate as somebody who is a non-smoker. The damage that has been done already - is permanent.

It is the disabilities that result from smoking that are important.

The number of elderly patients with decades of pack-years (no. of 25x cigarette packs day x no. of years smoked) who may require portable oxygen and can barely move, shower, get out of bed, prepare their meals or do ANYTHING without feeling short of breath (akin to being really unfit and having just done a killer aerobics session) is horrendous. Given their condition was preventable. Their disabilities affect them. They regret it. To be fair, there's a wide-range of severity but keep smoking and the eventuality that this will affect you becomes all the more likely. And these people are a massive burden to all those around them. And they cost the health system a lot of money.

4. Smoking is associated with an increased risk of almost every other disease you can name. You're more likely to die of other causes. Period.
5. If you're diabetic AND smoke - expect to have your legs cut off before you die. Poor circulation due to peripheral vascular disease and smoking is not nice.
6. There are obvious social implications from smoking and most people don't think it's cool. Smoking is now banned from my State casino and some clubs/pubs/shopping centres. We no longer have to dryclean our suit everytime we visit the casino to get rid of the tobacco smell :)

We can debate statistics but the truth is, what people have been writing above could happen to YOU if you smoke. And being preventable, it's not a gamble I'd take.

Here's a statistic I heard a Doctor once tell a patient: Did you know that if you stopped smoking, you'd be able to afford a trip to Bali every 6 months?!? Say you smoke a packet/day. That's A$70 a week. A$280 a month. A$1680 in 6 months. Umm... US$1000 can buy you a lot of things. Like almost any PocketPC on the market.

Okay that's enough of the scare campaign. It's just that all the ad's in Australia have been of people dying, destroying their lungs or operated on. Or doing other stupid things. Why start in the first place? But if you decide to quit, all the best! Congratulations. Yay!

For a laugh, does anybody else know someone else who doesn't smoke who tried nicotine patches for exam revision and got addicted to them? :roll:

And a packet of cigarettes (25) in Australia costs A$10. that'd be US$7

*edits - minor grammatical changes*

[shawnc]

I think tanalasta makes as good a case to quit smoking as I (and most lawyers) ever could.

But I'm neither trying to scare you kowalski, or trivialize the difficulty you face in trying to quit. My guess is that you haven't read much in this thread that you didn't already know. And even with that knowledge my hunch is that attempting to quit will be one of the most difficult challenges you will face in your entire life.

I still say you've got a great start by admitting the problem. But it will be an uphill battle. I sincerely wish you the best of luck. Just hang with it and don't beat yourself up when you have the occassional, and somewhat expected, transgression. I look forward to the day when you pass along this same advice to someone else, and you are able to share with them your secrets for success :wink: . Again, good luck.

[Jeff Rutledge]

In my experience, the most important point made here so far is that you need to want to quit for it to work.

I quit smoking over 5 years ago. To that point, I had been smoking for over 7 years and when I quit I was smoking over 30 cigarettes per day.

I quit cold turkey. It was a Monday night and I was laying in bed and told myself I was done smoking, which I had said before. This time though, the little voice in my head that usually said "Nahhhhh...." didn't speak up. I ran into the kitchen, tore up the half-pack I had left and haven't had a smoke since. I'm not saying that you need some epiphany to quit, but for it to work, external forces won't do it. It definitely has to come from within.

Once it was done, it wasn't that tough to stay quit actually. There were times I could have lit up of course (I don't imagine that will ever go away), but they're mostly fleeting impulses now. I do enjoy a cigar every once in a while as well (maybe one every 2-3 months), but haven't touched a cigarette since I quit.

Having said all of that, I wish you luck!

And shawnc, like everyone else, I'm sorry for your loss.

[OskiO]

If you need incentive to quit smoking, just remember the facts. Smoking WILL kill you in some way eventually.
I'm afraid you've fallen under the spell of the anti-smoking propaganda. If you smoke for 50 years then your chance of getting lung cancer by the age of 70 are 16% - That's just one chance in 7. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes not related to smoking. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes related to smoking.

Yes, it's a horrible habit. But trying to scare people with obvious untruths (everybody my age will have known elderly relatives that smoked) will just dilute the real facts.

Hollis - Propaganda??? What have you been smoking??? I've never seen an honest smoking ad - now that is propaganda. Show me an ad with someone with yellow teeth and an O2 can on wheels - not a beautiful young woman/man surrounded by fun and popularity all on account of their selection of cancer sticks. Propaganda??? Show me an industry that can afford BILLIONS in fines and still make a profit. Oh wait, that would be the smoking industry. Propaganda???

The bottom line is this, if tobacco was discovered today the FDA and numerous other countries would ban it because it is an addictive drug.

Propaganda??? Man, what have you been smoking? Obviously something other than tobacco...

[Pony99CA]

I'm afraid you've fallen under the spell of the anti-smoking propaganda. If you smoke for 50 years then your chance of getting lung cancer by the age of 70 are 16% - That's just one chance in 7.
Assuming that percentage is correct, it's closer to 1 in 6 (6 * 16 = 96; 7 * 16 = 112). And what are the odds of a non-smoker getting lung cancer?

Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes not related to smoking. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes related to smoking.
What are the odds of a non-smoker dying from causes related to smoking? (It's actually not a rhetorical question, because second-hand smoke could cause death.)

Yes, it's a horrible habit. But trying to scare people with obvious untruths (everybody my age will have known elderly relatives that smoked) will just dilute the real facts.
I understand your point -- smoking won't necessarily kill somebody, so the claim that it would was a bit overblown.

However, even shooting yourself in the head won't necessarily kill you. I just don't see much reason to try it. :-D

Steve

[Chucky]

As an ex-smoker myself, well not really an ex-smoker, but majorly cut down I know exactly how hard it is.

Although I think I'm kinda unique, my addiction had no short term effects when I gave up. I gave up, easy done, thats that lets move on. However about six months later, well its a different story I wake up every morning wanting a smoke.

However I am a lot better off, even though I do still smoke. I smoke less because I work to a plan, I live in Melbourne but my family is in Tasmania, so I have committed myself to not smoking in Melbourne, thus I don't smoke where I spend the majority of my time. However to ease the cravings I tell myself that I can smoke when I go back to Tasmania. I know its still bad and I wish I could give it up completely - but I know if I didn't have these cigarettes in Tassie I would start smoking in Melbourne and once I get used to it I would probably start smoking full time.

I was lucky, I started smoking when I was 12, by 13 going two or three packets a week, but I never really got fully adicted.

But just my life story :D I shouldn't tell you this but I am in Tasmania atm and just before I checked this forum I was down at the local shop buying a packet of smokes :(


oh and it really helps if you have a partner who won't go anywhere near you if you have just had a smoke :D

[Rob Alexander]

I'm afraid you've fallen under the spell of the anti-smoking propaganda. If you smoke for 50 years then your chance of getting lung cancer by the age of 70 are 16% - That's just one chance in 7. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes not related to smoking. Half of all lifetime smokers die from causes related to smoking.

And you LIKE those odds?! I tell you what... that 16% is about 1 in 6, very convenient. Go borrow a revolver, put one bullet in, spin it, put it to your head and pull the trigger once. Let us all know how it goes. (If we don't hear back, we'll figure it out.) Seriously, if you find yourself thinking that would be a stupid thing to do, then remember that those are the same odds that you seem to think are just fine with smoking. Those are poor odds, mate!

Propaganda??? Man, what have you been smoking? Obviously something other than tobacco...

Bad news on that count too! Marijuana contains more tar than cigarettes and is more damaging on a puff-for-puff basis because 1) people hold the smoke in their lungs longer and 2) people smoke down to the ends with no filters, which increases the intensity of tars reaching your lungs. On the positive side, even regular marijuana smokers tend not to smoke as much as do cigarette smokers, and there are significantly less marijuana smokers than cigarette smokers, so it's a relatively minor contributor to lung cancer.

What are the odds of a non-smoker dying from causes related to smoking? (It's actually not a rhetorical question, because second-hand smoke could cause death.)

Or you might ask what the probability is of a non-smoker contracting lung cancer. I read on a cancer site that it is 0.03% and that most of those are associated with environmental conditions like working with asbestos, in a talc mine, etc. Apparently lung cancer is very rare indeed for people who neither smoke nor are exposed to other regular assaults on the lungs by toxic foreign substances.

[karinatwork]

One more time I am staring at my computer screen with my mouth open and I am just blown away by the intelligent and interesting remarks made by everyone. I am not a smoker, I don't even have a strong opinion about any of this stuff, yet I am so impressed and I keep thinking how glad I am to be a part of this great community of pocket pc users... who will not only talk about pocket pcs and computers in general, but things like these, and show others the sympathy and friendship they deserve.

Thanks guys!

K.

[esher2292]

My father is a heavy cigar smoker. I was luckly taken away to maryland since my parents are divorced and the only second hand smoke that I get now is either from people on my court or people that we happen to be by. In motgomery county maryland they've banned smoking from resteraunts. It's sad where you know someone who could die any day now.

Also, I have made my mind up at this young age, that I will never smoke or do any drugs. My mom occasionally talks to me about this. I know that drugs were a big thing in the "hippie ages" which are my favorite decades btw. I know that one of my favorite singers, Eric Clapton did drugs and now he doesn't and he has his own drug and alcohol rehab center. (http://crossroadsantigua.org/website/index.html)

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and I wish everyone a good day:)

Actually Crossroads Centre has a nicotine program, so think about that, that centre is a VERY nice place, I've seen pictures of it.

[Jon Westfall]

One more time I am staring at my computer screen with my mouth open and I am just blown away by the intelligent and interesting remarks made by everyone. I am not a smoker, I don't even have a strong opinion about any of this stuff, yet I am so impressed and I keep thinking how glad I am to be a part of this great community of pocket pc users... who will not only talk about pocket pcs and computers in general, but things like these, and show others the sympathy and friendship they deserve.

Thanks guys!

K.

You're welcome. I love the same thing about this community. We'll discuss everything, and for the most part, avoid flameing each other, just each others argument. When you can seperate the person from the argument, you can properly debate!

[IIIsynthtaxIII]

In Toronto, the anti-smoking campaign started a few years ago when smoking was prohibited in all restaurants. As of Jun 1, there is no smoking allowed in bars either. In Kingston, Ontario (where I am for the summer), you aren't even allowed to smoke on outdoor patios of restaurants. There "appears" to be a trend toward more and more people being against smoking, but does anyone know of actual stats of what percentage of people smoke now compared to, say, 20 years ago? I don't really notice much about smoking in general because I don't really smoke. I might have one every couple weeks or so... After leaving Toronto and being in the fresh Kingston air, my lungs need the pollution.... :roll:

[hollis_f]

Yes, it's a horrible habit. But trying to scare people with obvious untruths (everybody my age will have known elderly relatives that smoked) will just dilute the real facts.
I understand your point -- smoking won't necessarily kill somebody, so the claim that it would was a bit overblown.
Phew! Thank the gods that somebody understood what I was saying.

I believe that such exaggeration of risk is actually detrimental.

It's like the anti-cannabis propaganda of the 1960s and 1970s. We were all told that cannabis was just as terrible as other 'hard' drugs like heroin. When observation or experience showed us that it wasn't that harmful at all, we naturally assumed that all the drug warnings were equally bogus and that heroin (only as bad as cannabis - the man said so) might be worth a try.

You've got to realise that the addicted smoker, in many cases, will grasp at any excuse not to give up. When they read things about smoking that they know are untrue - "smoking will definitely kill you" - they can (perhaps subconciously) lump all the anti-smoking warnings into the same 'garbage' category.