european vacation (london/paris)

[zilla31]

my wife and i are taking a vacation to london/paris the first couple of weeks in august and i was just wondering what PPC apps you guys think might help? i've started simply with a great little program from Visual IT that gives me the underground maps for both cities (damn it's expensive though $20 each) as a demo...

but i'd love to hear any other suggestions (of any type of software i can take with me to get use out of my PPC while there!!!)

thanks!!!

rod

ps some ideas... maybe $ conversion software? other map type stuff? something like vindigo (does that service london/paris or only US locations?)

[arnage2]

i think the calculator does currency. There arenumerous translators, and city guides, too. search http://handango.com

[OSUKid7]

i think the calculator does currency.Yes, it does, but do you know if there's an application to update the conversions?

[zilla31]

dang the calculator does do currency - i never knew that. thanks. i did find out since my post that vindigo supports what seems to be one city outside the USA - and that happens to be london! that coupled with the visual IT tube maps of the london and paris underground are great finds...

now all i need is something like a trip planner or something to keep my itenerary in (got it in there using repligo at the moment)... thanks again. you guys really are the best.

[Bruno Figueiredo]

Well, for underground maps, you can get Metro (http://nanika.net/Metro/) (free). You can't see the map but you tell the point of origin and destinations and it says what you should take.

You can allways load some images of the underground maps elseware. For London go here (http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/tubemap/) and for Paris go here (http://www.citefutee.com/orienter/tous_plans_pdf.php). I think you can get by with just those. Of course you will need Acrobat Reader for Pocket PC.

MS Pocket PC Expenses Powertoy (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/downloads/ppcexpense.mspx) does Tip Calculation too...

One word of advice for you: don't flash your camera and other gadgets on the street. Be discreet. In the subway put your wallet in your pants front pocket. If you smell trouble, get out of there quickly. Don't do empty streets. You can buy a 3 day or 5 day pass for all of public transports real cheap. Taxis are too expensive and public transportation works fine in these cities. Avoid fancy places for eating. On the outskirts of the city centre you eat better and cheaper.

[zilla31]

you're the man bruno thanks for all the advice... can i get this multi-day tube pass ahead of time?

[55Kevy]

Be aware that pickpockets on the Paris Metro are VERY skilled. I was hit 3 times in 2 days a few years ago. I was carrying my wallet in my front pants pocket and it was still lifted without my being aware of it. The thief got a couple of hundred $ and 2 credit cards - no biggie. The second time all I had in there was a tourist map, which the thief got. The third time, broad daylight, my wife caught the guy with his hand in my pocket up to the second knuckle!!

I'd recommend putting a rubber band around your wallet to make it harder to slip out.

And turn off the neon sign over your head that says "Pick my pocket, please" :wink:

[Bruno Figueiredo]

You can buy those ahead at travel agencies, but when you get there, you can buy them almost everywhere.

Info on Paris Pass "Paris Visite" here (http://www.ratp.fr/ParisVisite/Eng/Actuas/pass/parisvisite.htm) and on "London Pass" here (http://www.londonpass.com/). Both are about $10 a day but they cover a lot of entrances to popular attractions.

Official Tourist Board sites: Paris (http://www.paris-touristoffice.com/index_va_v2.html) and London (http://www.visitlondon.com/) (for London this site (http://www.londontown.com/) is great too).

Oh, and on the subway don't travel in an empty train. Avoid automatic vending machines. Mini-Markets are everywhere and are cheaper. If you wish to climb the Eiffel Tower get there early and on a Week Day. Same for Louvre. Buy an International Calling Card. In Europe you can phone with them from your hotel room. Believe me, it's a lot cheaper.

For a general rule of thumb, an Euro is 20% more than a Dollar and a Pound is 50% more.

Finally: enjoy your stay. And, if you can, visit Lisbon, Portugal from London. You have unbelievable fares for it and it's a great city. Of course I'm biased, I live here!

[Bruno Figueiredo]

Yes, Pickpockets are the worse in Europe. What you can do to avoid it is: put your wallet in your pants front pocket if you have tight pants. If not, put in a bags pocket with velcro. Zippers are easy to pick, velcro is harder.

But if you can, the better way is to put you backpack/bag in front of you and put your hands over it. Especially, be aware when lots of people enters a public transport. It's a critical time. Be aware when anyone touches you, even if accidentaly or casualy.

[skewline]

i didn't have a problem in london--and i was all over and in/out of tube

[JvanEkris]

I did not have any problem at all either. The british people are extremely civilised and as long as you keep to the metropolitan area you will be allright. The tube is filled with businessmen and tourists.

Regarding a good travelguide: i compared three (3lobyte, visualIT and Lonely Planet for PocketPC) for a review and came to the conclusion that http://www.3lobyte.nl/VisitorGuide.htm is absolutely the best. Especially the 3-in-1 guide is supurb. It allows to plan trips from a point on the map to another point, automagically using the tube when possible. It contains an overview of most popular theatres and musea (including maplocation, opening hours and some background info) and an overview of the tower of london. One option i absolutely adore is the possibility to block tubes. When entering a station there always is a sign indicating the condition of the tube, with the 3-in-1 guide you can block tubes so the tubeplanner plans around it.

I can also recomend the "London Pass". For almost everything you would like to see you are in zone 1 and 2 (no need to buy a more expensive 3 of 4 zones pass). There are a lot of things to see. A recomendation is "the globe", a rebuild of Shakespears original theatre (in summer they perform plays in the evening as well), and the Tate Modern Museum right next to it.

Have a good stay!

Jaap

[Oleander]

Since I'm taking the family to Paris by the end of the month, I've also done some homework.

I know that you (Zilla31) emphasized on VisualIT and it's ability to guide you through the metro, but personally I would go for one of the three programs from Gate5 (http://www.gate5.net/products/) (iFodor, Falk City Guide or Lonely Planet).

My experience as a tourist in Paris dates 12 years back, but I still remember the Metro part as being the easy one of the equation in getting around to things I wanted to see. So a program that puts its focus on that part is IMHO not up to the job. What _I_ like about the gate5 products is their ability to use GPS and tell me what goodies are in the vicinity of where I am _now_ and not how to use the metro to get to the Eiffel tower and show me that in a ridiculus animated fashion (I really hate that kind of bloat!)

Off course, if 3lobyte is capable (haven't tried it yet) of making an itinerary of my day based on the 5 things i've selected to see that day (because the program recommended them) based on optimising the route i have to travel, taking into account opening hours of the sites and the possible best hours given the amount of people likely to be at a given site at a given time..... :lol: ...then i'll think i'll go for that.

Btw when I was there, some american friends I made on the way, told me that the "Paris Visite" was a huge rip-off! At the time I could have bought a normal week-pass for the metro at a quarter of the price, so it might prove cheaper to do so if it's still available. Since I'm going there before Rod I'll be happy to report back. I also remember that the other stuff I got with the Paris Visite to be utterly useless! Everywhere that I wanted entrance I had to pay the full price.

Another type of program that might be usefull is this: Itineraries (http://www.handango.com/PlatformSoftwareSection.jsp?jid=6CXA52XC3D77E28C836279F5B77376FX&platformId=2&special=&siteId=1&bySection=1&topSectionId=1423&sectionId=3757&catalog=30&title=Itineraries+%26+Schedules)
Personally I'll use TripTracker (http://www.twopeaks.com/site/products/TripTracker/default.aspx) since I allready have it , but there's probably other programs cheaper (http://www.freewareppc.com/)

And what about a phrasebook?
...you (Zilla31) probably don't need one in London (British-American? (http://www.ppclink.com/download/download.asp))
But I for one could use a good english-french phrasebook!
I have French as my fourth language and since I have hardly spoken it in 12 years I can use all the help I can get!
Anyone who knows of a good one, preferrably free? - and without the added bloat of "it" pronuncing the words out loud. ...I'm not that rusty!

Hey! I even remember: "Donnez-moi Pernod!" and "Mon crayon est jaune et trop long"

[zilla31]

i'm so glad i started this thread! i'm going to have a look at trip tracker and all of the other great apps you guys are recommending so keep them coming. i am a huge history buff - so i wouldn't mind some sort of travel guide that i can "hide" in my ipaq (like an ebook type?) and not look like a total nerd walking around with... anyone know of one of those???

[zilla31]

Oleander - are these 3 apps from gate5 basically all the same? have you tried all 3? i'm wondering what the difference is between them since they all seem to be mapped city guides... there's also vindigo's london map i've found. i don't have a GPS device but some of these apps make me think of getting one before i go!!!

[Andrey]

Hey, what can you recommend me in my Miami journey? I'm going Miami this august ;)

[zilla31]

i'm not a huge fan - but for local (in U.S.) travel vindigo is def pretty nice - check that out.

[Kati Compton]

And what about a phrasebook?
...you (Zilla31) probably don't need one in London (British-American? (http://www.ppclink.com/download/download.asp))
But I for one could use a good english-french phrasebook!
I have French as my fourth language and since I have hardly spoken it in 12 years I can use all the help I can get!
Anyone who knows of a good one, preferrably free? - and without the added bloat of "it" pronuncing the words out loud. ...I'm not that rusty!

Hey! I even remember: "Donnez-moi Pernod!" and "Mon crayon est jaune et trop long"
Actually, it's amazing what you can do with even a limited vocabulary. And how much you will remember once you get the hang of it. :)

In Paris, though, many many people speak English. Particularly at the tourist locations. Don't be offended if someone answers you in English after you say something in French. Either they're trying to help you out and take pity on you, or showing off that they speak English. ;)

What I find most useful, being that I don't want to eat organ meats or seafood, is to get a FOOD phrasebook if I travel somewhere that I don't speak the language. These books won't have regional dishes, and I narrowly avoided an incident with a plate of mini-octopuses in Portugal, but they are VERY helpful in general. It's always hard to remember "Is that the word for spinach or asparagus?"

BTW - spinach is epinards, I think. ;)

Oh, and for a place that's dangerous and crowded, I would personally prefer a paper map than something on my PDA. Just in case. ;) But I didn't find the Underground that dangerous. My friend had an incident on the Metro a couple years ago with some kids trying to steal a wallet.

[Oleander]

Oleander - are these 3 apps from gate5 basically all the same? have you tried all 3? i'm wondering what the difference is between them since they all seem to be mapped city guides... there's also vindigo's london map i've found. i don't have a GPS device but some of these apps make me think of getting one before i go!!!

I'll tell you a bit more about all 3 in a couple of days. Stay tuned. :wink:

GPS is simply a must! There is nothing that says turist quite as much as someone holding a huge map and desparately looking about for some indication of a streetname. :wink: Now with a GPS, you're just looking at your PPC and it instantly (well most of the time) gives you your position and whats interesting in your vicinity. Without it, you're still fumbling about, trying to match the map on the ppc with that illusive street sign... ..Why is it always only placed in the other end of the street? :lol:

I have an excellent sense of direction (IMHO :wink: ), but it always involve that I pro-actively have to be aware of when I turn a corner and how far down that road I travel. With GPS I couldn't care less!

[Oleander]

In Paris, though, many many people speak English. Particularly at the tourist locations. Don't be offended if someone answers you in English after you say something in French. Either they're trying to help you out and take pity on you, or showing off that they speak English. ;)

I've been lots of places, where, if I start out speaking english, people gets offended! And thats even in spite of the fact that I being from Denmark, makes it pretty obvious to anybody who hear me speak, that I'm certainly not native to english! :lol:

So I've made it a habit to _always_ start out speaking the "proper" language. When the person I'm talking to, hear me butchering their native tongue, they are much more inclined to come to my rescue in english. I really think that me making a fool out of myself, "disarm" most people and they're less afraid of saying something wrong themselves.



What I find most useful, being that I don't want to eat organ meats or seafood, is to get a FOOD phrasebook if I travel somewhere that I don't speak the language.

Oh! But you haven't really been to france, if you haven't found out the hard way, that the sea really doesn't hold exciting fruits! :wink:

No, actually I couldn't agree more! It is simply a must! And since french restaurants have the menu outside, it's pretty safe to see in advance if it's way off!
For me, unfortunately thats probably the one area where I have to bring a book! 8O
There aren't any digital french-danish food phrasebooks and I'm about as fluent in exotic english cuisine as i am in french.


Oh, and for a place that's dangerous and crowded, I would personally prefer a paper map than something on my PDA. Just in case. ;) But I didn't find the Underground that dangerous. My friend had an incident on the Metro a couple years ago with some kids trying to steal a wallet.

Doh!
I was just so focused on the "not looking like a tourist" (flashing maps and stuff) that i totally forgot to consider that "blending in" with a pda is probably not the best way to go... :roll:

[zilla31]

been trying out ifodor's for the last few days with the demo version (only includes new york) and i have to admit - once you get used to it - it's REALLY nice. they only need to throw in a nice tube map/metro map and this thing would be great.

[Bruno Figueiredo]

Oleander Said:
Hey! I even remember: "Donnez-moi Pernod!" and "Mon crayon est jaune et trop long"

What? :lol: The last phrase reads "My pencil is yellow and very long". What the hell were you trying to say? :lol:

Kati Said:
These books won't have regional dishes, and I narrowly avoided an incident with a plate of mini-octopuses in Portugal, but they are VERY helpful in general.

Hey, Kati, glad you payed a visit to my country. As for mini-ocopuses :lol: , I find it hillarious the way you described chocos. Well, being an atlantic country we eat loads of things from the sea, even things I'm sure you've never heard of. Though, American food culture is becoming more widespread and we are getting to eat less of these. Well, not the case for Cod. We just love Cod. There are hundreds of Cod recipes in portuguese gastronomy. All dipped in large amounts of Olive Oil, eh eh...

Well, where did you go when you were here, Kati? Just curious...

[Kati Compton]

As for mini-ocopuses :lol: , I find it hillarious the way you described chocos. Well, being an atlantic country we eat loads of things from the sea, even things I'm sure you've never heard of. Though, American food culture is becoming more widespread and we are getting to eat less of these. Well, not the case for Cod. We just love Cod. There are hundreds of Cod recipes in portuguese gastronomy. All dipped in large amounts of Olive Oil, eh eh...
Yeah - I just don't like seafood. And I have a mental block about "crawly" things anyway. I've had Cod in "fish and chips", and I really only like it with LOTS of malt vinegar. ;) Tuna is about the only seafood I like because the texture is more meaty than fishy. Even then, I prefer it well done instead of ultra-rare like it's "supposed" to be served.

Well, where did you go when you were here, Kati? Just curious...
My recent trips to Europe have been Montpellier (actually La Grande Motte) in 2002, and Lisbon in 2003.

My Portugese is pretty limited. So, I remember to say "Obrigada" instead of "Obrigado" (which to me is very strange, but interesting). Other stuff I remember is "De nada", "sim", "nao", "desculpe", "se faz favor", "adeus", "boa tarde", "boa noite", "casa de banyo", "dos aguas por favor" (I was traveling with a friend), "cerveja", and the most important phrases: "Eu nao falo Portugues. Fala Ingles?", and "nao comprendo". ;)

[Bruno Figueiredo]

My recent trips to Europe have been Montpellier (actually La Grande Motte) in 2002, and Lisbon in 2003.

Nice. Did you liked Lisbon? What did you liked most in it and in Portugal in general? What do you think of Portuguese people?

[Oleander]

Oleander Said:
Hey! I even remember: "Donnez-moi Pernod!" and "Mon crayon est jaune et trop long"

What? :lol: The last phrase reads "My pencil is yellow and very long". What the hell were you trying to say? :lol:




Hmmmm. I know it was far fetched. :lol:
Guess you guys haven't seen Gotcha! (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009AOBK/qid%3D1089967306/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-2687596-4420025)

It's one of the few phrases "Jonathan" (played by Anthony Edwards) knows in the above mentioned movie. It's a very long time since I've seen it (saw it when it was originally running in the cinemas), but I think that besides being one of the phrases you train in school, it's also being used as a euphemism...

The scene where he orders a drink is simply hilarius!

[Oleander]

Oleander - are these 3 apps from gate5 basically all the same? have you tried all 3? i'm wondering what the difference is between them since they all seem to be mapped city guides... there's also vindigo's london map i've found. i don't have a GPS device but some of these apps make me think of getting one before i go!!!

been trying out ifodor's for the last few days with the demo version (only includes new york) and i have to admit - once you get used to it - it's REALLY nice. they only need to throw in a nice tube map/metro map and this thing would be great.

I've tried all 3 apps now and they are basically the same...
That is, it's the same program, but in 3 different versions. The one from iFodor being the oldest one. I think Lonely Planet is the most recent. They all share map data from Tele Atlas (http://www.teleatlas.com/)

They most probably put their own info from their normal paperback guides into the equivalent electronic version so you might prefer one over the other. Still, since Lonely Planet is the one with the most recent map data, I will personally go for that one.

AFAICT none of them hold underground/metro data, but as stated before that is not what I would say was the crucial element. You should also be aware that iFodor comes in a version so old, that there is no GPS support!

Since they share the same platform, they also have the same shortcomings when it comes to installing. I have the policy of only installing software directly to ram if there is absolutely no way to get it running otherwise. So all 3 will fail to run from a storage card if you don't manually move files afterwards. Actually the same goes for Tube and Visual Guide although they at least have the curtesy to mention it in the read-me file. To me, that's simply too lame! Yeah, I know that it probably is MS who have made the ActiveSync installer do that, but a lot of more streamlined products do this automatically, so why can't any of these?

I have also tried both Tube and Visual Guide and I prefer Tube. But on a tight budget I would go without any of them and buy something like PDVacation City Guide instead and the go for Métro. As mentioned earlier in this thread there's the free program Métro which basically does the same as Tube and Visual Guide. I personally favor Métro (even if I had to pay 20$ for it) over the other two since there isn't the added bloat of animation and it's updateable!

I must say that I am a more than just a wee bit disappointed about what's available. The PPC has a great potential for offering so much more than just a flat paper book and yet it's almost just a conversion of what you find in a book to an electronic format.
Why, oh why, are none of these things updateable? I really miss the ability to turn on the ppc and then get an instant barrage of suggestions of where to go, based on my GPS-linked location and my given preferences. But noooo, it can tell me where I am now, and then I'll have to browse for things in the vicinity that I find interesting. Uhm, a book and a map can do pretty much the same, and as mentioned it's much cheaper if lost...
And what about linking things to the internet? If I see something it would be cool to be able to access the possible web-sites of the attractions for booking or see if they had some new and interesting stuff.

So after testing what I could find on handango and what people told about here, I'll probably end up buying Lonely Planet Paris. Not because I think that it is a must have, but simply because of:

W?BIC!

And I will certainly bring along my old and trusty paperback pocket guide Turen går til (http://www.politikensforlag.dk/index.jsp?main_menu=Rejseb%F8ger&prodkey=491&action=showproduct) since it knocks the socks of anything I've seen electronically...

So what software will I bring on my trip to Paris that is specifically for the trip?

Navman2 (Paris maps)
TripTracker
Lonely Planet Paris
Métro (Paris metro files)
KnowPlaces Disneyland Park - Paris

And dishonorable mention goes to: Both Enarro and "Rick Steves' Mona Winks" guides. None of them would install on my PPC (iPAQ 3850).

[zilla31]

ok one other (possibly dumb) question... am i going to need some sort of adapter in order to charge my PPC in london/paris?

[JvanEkris]

Yep,

Besides the physical difference in sockets, there also is a voltage difference. in the use it is a mere 110V, in Europe we have 220V. Most (not all!) modern adapters can cope with both voltages: normally this is mentioned on the sticker saying input voltage 110 V~250 V.

Besides this, England and the mainland of europe use different sockets anyway (personally i blame the brittish for for this, but the british could have a different opinion). in some hotels you find wallsockets for mainland connectors as well (a so-called shaving socket), but you can not depend on it. There are "universal adapters" available to adapt the pins to the wall-socket. You can buy them at the radioshack or any airport. Experiences do vary: some are a bit sloppy and do not make a good contact somewhere. It is not unsafe, but anoying if you try to pick up your PDA to find it hungry.

Jaap

[Kati Compton]

My recent trips to Europe have been Montpellier (actually La Grande Motte) in 2002, and Lisbon in 2003.

Nice. Did you liked Lisbon? What did you liked most in it and in Portugal in general? What do you think of Portuguese people?
I had a good time, though during my sight-seeing it was hot and VERY humid. And no one was wearing shorts, so I had to wear pants too to not be too obvious about being American. The people were nice. The strange old man that tried to hold a 30-minute conversation with me wasn't from Portugal (I don't know where he was from), so I wouldn't hold that against the city. I liked seeing the ruins, the castle, and the tile museum best (no particular order).

[zilla31]

ok just got back after 10 days in london/paris. had an INCREDIBLE time. will report more later but wanted to let you all know that i got the absolute most use out of the freeware program Metro. it was on point and i used it tons and tons of times. the ifodor's program didn't come in very handy except to look up attractions opening and closing times and cost... i feel like i wasted my money on that one. w/o incorporating the tube stops into your travel from point A to B it's pretty much worthless since that's the main way to get around (not on foot!). if i wanted to used it i basically had to take the tube to get into the vacinity of where i wanted to go, then find an address on a local building to use as my "start point". pain in the butt and i rarely used it :(

i think next trip i'll surely take metro, and just try and get some A-Z maps or maybe BT GPS. now that would be handy.