Windows Mobile ActiveSync Chat, Thursday 3PM PST

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsXP/expertzone/chats/default.mspx' target='_blank'>http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsXP/...ts/default.mspx</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Got a Pocket PC or Smartphone? Got questions or issues with ActiveSync? Here's your chance to get assistance from Microsoft Experts! This chat will be focused on ActiveSync for Windows Mobile devices, with members of the ActiveSync product team available to answer your questions."</i><br /><br />I know a lot of you have asked support questions on ActiveSync, so you might want to check this chat out. ;) There's also a link to <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/cal/Expert_Zone_mobile_jul1.ics">add it to your Outlook calendar</a>.

[Gremmie]

I have questions: Why does it suck? When is its replacement coming out? When will we see firewire/usb 2.0 syncing? Why have we had to ask these aforementioned questions for the past year?

[manywhere]

8O Firewire syncing would be very cool! :D

[Janak Parekh]

I have questions: Why does it suck? When is its replacement coming out? When will we see firewire/usb 2.0 syncing? Why have we had to ask these aforementioned questions for the past year?
I'm sure you can ask some of those questions... but ask them nicely. :)

--janak

[ctmagnus]

OT: Is there any way a mere mortal (ie, home user) can produce those nifty .ics files?

[felixdd]

I opened the ics file in notepad and this is what I see.


&lt;HTML>&lt;HEAD>&lt;META HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh" CONTENT="0.1; URL=/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/cal/Expert_Zone_mobile_jul1.ics">
&lt;META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no cache">
&lt;META HTTP-EQUIV="Expires" CONTENT="-1">
&lt;/HEAD>&lt;/HTML>


PS: Outlook gave me an error and said I can't import the vCalendar file. What gives? :? [/code]

[Ed Hansberry]

OT: Is there any way a mere mortal (ie, home user) can produce those nifty .ics files?
Just create your appointment in Outlook, then save it. Open it and select File|Save As and pick the ICS format.

[gorkon280]

&lt;FLAME ON>
They better had bring their flame retardent underwear. Activesync sucks. Better be nice? Being nice is what we have been all along...we all better get damn well pissed to let them know that activesynce is a flaming hunk of goo! I am tired of it.
&lt;/FLAME OFF>

First few things:

When are we goign to get full Mac support...if ever.
When are they going to implement SyncML?
Why have they not implemented this?
What is the acepted delivery format of over the air and portable applications?

Things I am sick of:

No true Mac support
Always having to run EXE's to install apps for the first time
The calendar app on PocketPC needs major work...

[Ed Hansberry]

&lt;FLAME ON>
They better had bring their flame retardent underwear. Activesync sucks. Better be nice? Being nice is what we have been all along...we all better get damn well pissed to let them know that activesynce is a flaming hunk of goo! I am tired of it.
&lt;/FLAME OFF>
You can go rant if you want, but you probably won't be responded to. You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar. :-D

First few things:

When are we goign to get full Mac support...if ever.
Probably never. Mac is a very small market. Even Palm has dropped support for it. There are two third party products for it.
When are they going to implement SyncML?
Probably never. Why would MS use something embraced by Symbian? Symbian is about as likely to start using Activesync. ;-) (Yeah, I know, not the best analogy, but you get the point.)
Why have they not implemented this?Implemented what?
What is the acepted delivery format of over the air and portable applications?.cab files.

Things I am sick of:

No true Mac supportNever gonna happen. Look at one of Microsoft's best applications - Access and Project. Both generate more revenue than mobile devices and those aren't on the Mac. Never will be unless the Mac starts growing substantially in marketshare. Sub-4% just isn't worth it.
Always having to run EXE's to install apps for the first time
I use CAB files all of the time.
The calendar app on PocketPC needs major work...
Third party. MS is always looking to improve their platform, but ask yourself this. You have X hrs of programming this year. You can work on Pocket Word, a better ActiveSync, rich email, Pocket Excel, Windows Media, Connection Manager and improving Calendar.

I suspect on that list, Calendar would be at or near the bottom. :mrgreen:

[Gremmie]

I think the top issues are:
-dropped syncs
-slow transfer rates
-unresolved items

and lower on the list is changing the automatic HTML translation to an option.

[Janak Parekh]

When are they going to implement SyncML?
Probably never. Why would MS use something embraced by Symbian? Symbian is about as likely to start using Activesync. ;-) (Yeah, I know, not the best analogy, but you get the point.)
Well, it is a proposed standard outside of Symbian. I asked them about this in an interview (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,15562), and they said they're "watching" it, but for now they feel AS is a richer experience. So, the answer is essentially no.

Ed's 100% correct on this. You're welcome to go ask them, if you do it politely, but don't expect amazing answers on the open-ended questions...

--janak

[Ed Hansberry]

I think the top issues are:
-dropped syncs
-slow transfer rates
-unresolved items

and lower on the list is changing the automatic HTML translation to an option.And general instability. I have to manually kill the AS process w/Task Manager then restart it and THEN dock at least 2-3 times a month. :|

[Pony99CA]

I wonder if I can link them to my ActiveSync New Year's Resolutions (http://thoughts.svpocketpc.com#THOUGHT_ACTIVESYNC_RESOLUTIONS). :-D

Steve

[andbrown]

We will absolutely welcome constructive feedback and respectfully-phrased questions that focus on specific scenarios (i.e. "when I do x, bad thing y happens"). Very general questions like "why does ActiveSync never work?" or statements like "ActiveSync sucks!" aren't constructive or helpful to other participants, nor will they make the hosts inclined to return.

This kind of thing:
They better had bring their flame retardent underwear. Activesync sucks. Better be nice? Being nice is what we have been all along...we all better get damn well pissed to let them know that activesynce is a flaming hunk of goo!

...will probably get you kicked. Being abusive to the chat hosts will in no way improve the product. Opening a dialog between the product team and the community, on the other hand, has the potential to be a very positive thing.

[Pony99CA]

We will absolutely welcome constructive feedback and respectfully-phrased questions that focus on specific scenarios (i.e. "when I do x, bad thing y happens"). Very general questions like "why does ActiveSync never work?" or statements like "ActiveSync sucks!" aren't constructive or helpful to other participants, nor will they make the hosts inclined to return.
I agree completely.

However, to avoid me having to ask all of the questions I raised in the New Year's Resolutions, could you read it and respond here or in the chat? ;-)

Steve

[Pony99CA]

and lower on the list is changing the automatic HTML translation to an option.
I've never heard of automatic HTML translation. What does it mean exactly?

Steve

[gorkon280]

You can go rant if you want, but you probably won't be responded to. You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar. :-D


By your suppositions, Microsoft should not have made Office 2004 for the Mac, but they did. IN some respects, Office on the Mac gives you things you cannot get on the Windows versions yet. But think about this:

Behind Windows, Mac OS X is most likely the number 2 OS of the commercial desktop operating systems. Oh sure, there's a lot of Linux out there, but I bet Mac OS X leads it on the desktop. There are 12 Million Mac OS X users. Half of Apple's installed base. That means Apple has 24 Million total users including Mac OS 9 and lower. That's not a miniscule market. Palm is not making a good decision. Also, this comes from PalmSource not Palm. Palm themselves or other Palm OS licensees can choose to support Macs all by themselves.

SyncML is a proposed standard and is the future of syncing devices. Only reason Microsoft may skip it is the NIH disease. Activesync does NOT offer a richer experience then iSync on the Mac. Apple's iSync has no limit in the devices you can sync your calendar or music too. My cellphone, my PDA and my cmputer all have the same info on it and very rarely do I have to help it along by saying keep this contact or that contact.

CAB files do work....when the developers OFFER THEM! Plus some apps always insist on having their ActiveStink plug in so even if you could get the app installed, it would never sync any data(on a Mac). Also, Microsoft must think EXE is the default because almost all of it's stuff is in a EXE, therefore you can't install it anyway.

We have been giving Microsoft honey er um money for years and been saddled with ActiveStink. It's apps like ActiveStink that makes people not want to bother with a PDA. PDA's are dying because of the BS with them. Both HP, Palm and other PDA makers as well as microsoft and apple need to do the following:

Pick a standard PDA connector....PLEASE! You can still make a uber cool dock unit that only works with your pda and people will buy them.

Offer USB hosting to we can attach printers, Keyboards and other USB devices to it

Use the SyncML standard. It's a developing STANDARD! NOT a Apple specific thing.

Allow your PDA to sync with any number of computers (not just two) and servers.


You can give Microsoft vinegar....sometimes it's the only thing they will here. Now I ain't saying walk in the channel and just spew off but make it CLEAR to Microsoft that ActiveSync SUCKS! I don't care about firewire syncing, USB 2.0 syncing or anything else, but I do want to be able to sync and not have to resolve non problem problems with my calendar or contact DB. That's far more important then syncing faster!

[Gremmie]

and lower on the list is changing the automatic HTML translation to an option.
I've never heard of automatic HTML translation. What does it mean exactly?

Steve

ActiveSync automatically translates all HTML emails into a simple text form to be read in Inbox. However, 3rd party programs that read HTML mail cannot work with synced inboxes because ActiveSync tranlsates all the emails--this cannot be turned off. Thus, it limits 3rd party solutions for Inbox for those who just sync their email.

[Pony99CA]

and lower on the list is changing the automatic HTML translation to an option.
I've never heard of automatic HTML translation. What does it mean exactly?
ActiveSync automatically translates all HTML emails into a simple text form to be read in Inbox. However, 3rd party programs that read HTML mail cannot work with synced inboxes because ActiveSync tranlsates all the emails--this cannot be turned off. Thus, it limits 3rd party solutions for Inbox for those who just sync their email.
Ah, so it's HTML E-mail. Whew! I thought you were saying that HTML files that synchronized over ActiveSync were getting converted (like some binary files do), perhaps by stripping some features that Pocket IE didn't support.

That's not the case, so thanks for the clarification. 8) It doesn't affect me, but I agree that should be fixed. I can see three obvious ways to fix this:

Add a preference that turns HTML E-mail conversion on or off.

The downside of this is, if you had text synced and got an HTML E-mail client for the PDA, you'd have to at least resync -- or maybe you wouldn't be able to at all.

Change Inbox to support HTML E-mail, with a preference in Inbox to display HTML or text only.

The downside of this is that HTML E-mail is likely bigger than the text-only version, thus taking more RAM. It also requires Inbox to change.

If the E-mail doesn't already have a text section, add the text section in a separate MIME section (or whatever allows dual-section text/HTML E-mail to work).

The downside of this is that it takes even more space than the previous suggestion. Also, if Inbox doesn't support MIME, it requires Inbox changes.
Steve

[Jonathon Watkins]

I think the top issues are:
-dropped syncs
-slow transfer rates
-unresolved items

and lower on the list is changing the automatic HTML translation to an option.And general instability. I have to manually kill the AS process w/Task Manager then restart it and THEN dock at least 2-3 times a month. :|

It's about once a month for me, plus a few times when it goes to 100% processor usage & doesn't;t stop until it's manually killed, but the same thing applies - AS isn't the most stable of applications. :?

Still, I'm very interested to see how they intend to improve it. :D

[Jonathon Watkins]

Opening a dialog between the product team and the community, on the other hand, has the potential to be a very positive thing.

It's very good to see that the product team are open to some direct dialouge. Lets hope that folks stay polite & resonable. :bangin: :wink:

[Pony99CA]

Opening a dialog between the product team and the community, on the other hand, has the potential to be a very positive thing.
It's very good to see that the product team are open to some direct dialouge. Lets hope that folks stay polite & resonable. :bangin: :wink:
The chat was last week, so there's no need to hope any more. ;-) Except for one moron coming in the room and cursing (and not very well, at that), people were reasonable.

Unfortunately, we didn't get any new information. Near the end of the chat, the moderator said some big news would be coming later, but that was about it. Maybe ActiveSync 8.0? :?

Steve

[Jonathon Watkins]

Unfortunately, we didn't get any new information. Near the end of the chat, the moderator said some big news would be coming later, but that was about it. Maybe ActiveSync 8.0? :?

OK, that's what I get for not paying better attention to dates. :lol:

Well, when someone knows what the big news is I'm sure they will pass it on to us. You will read it here first! :wink:

(We hope). :mrgreen:

[Janak Parekh]

Well, when someone knows what the big news is I'm sure they will pass it on to us. You will read it here first! :wink:
Well, I think I can safely say there will be updates on this front someday in the future. ;) I can also say we've clearly communicated the concerns discussed here and elsewhere repeatedly, over and over, to MS, and they seem to be listening. How it turns out, though, is not something I can say anything about clearly just yet.

--janak

[Pony99CA]

Well, when someone knows what the big news is I'm sure they will pass it on to us. You will read it here first! :wink:
Well, I think I can safely say there will be updates on this front someday in the future. ;) I can also say we've clearly communicated the concerns discussed here and elsewhere repeatedly, over and over, to MS, and they seem to be listening. How it turns out, though, is not something I can say anything about clearly just yet.
Can you say anything thinly veiled, then? :-D

Steve

[Janak Parekh]

Can you say anything thinly veiled, then? :-D
Sorry, as a "newbie MVP", I don't want to risk things. ;) I don't know much more than you, just an idea of what they're working on.

--janak