Asus A730: The True Successor to the HP 4150?

[Pat Logsdon]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/asus-a730-en.shtml' target='_blank'>http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/re...s-a730-en.shtml</a><br /><br /></div>"Many PDA-fans who follow all the novelties of the mobile world and often change their devices said that most probably Asus A730 would be their next purchase. This pocket PC attracts by VGA-screen in spite of rather small dimensions, two expansion slots, bluetooth, nice design and new Intel XScale PXA270 processor, which realizes all potential of the high resolution screen. Will the new model from Asus become a sales hit? We’ll try to solve this problem [by] the end of this preview. <br /><br /> <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/logsdon_20040625_a730.jpg" /> <br /><br />One half a year the Toshiba e800 was the first Pocket PC which had a VGA-screen (640*480 pixels). Asus produced the second model of this kind (Asus A730), other companies will follow them later (HP, then Dell and Fujitsu Siemens). The next new tendency (the first time you will see it in the PDA from Asus) – the internal 1 megapixel camera. It will be typical for many PDAs produced in the second half of 2004, not only those based on Pocket PC platform. Asus A730 is much smaller by dimensions than Toshiba e800 – its main rival, and the future HP iPaq Explorer. It will be better to compare PDA with iPaq 19xx and 41xx series – one of the smallest Pocket PCs on the market: the length and width are almost the same, the depth is much larger – the payment for the second expansion slot.<br /><br />• Toshiba e800: 134.6х76.2х15.2 mm 192 g. <br />• HP iPaq 4150: 113.6х70.6х13.5 mm 133 g. <br />• Asus A730: 117.5 х 72.5 х 16.9 mm 170 g. <br /><br />The device is weighty but not heavy. The new device, which weighs 170g, wasn’t felt in the inside the pocket of the coat, but felt in the pocket of the shirt. So, the dimensions of this handheld with two expansion slots are close to optimum. Today it is the smallest handheld with VGA-screen, taking into account Sharp Zaurus and the future HP iPaq hx4700 series."<br /><br />Reading the review of this device has quite a few "Ifs" popping up in my head. I mean that in a good way, because if the Ifs pan out, I think this is my next device. IF the WiFi version comes out soon, IF the price is right, and IF the HP hx4700 looks as ugly in real life as the mockups. :? Asus has managed to squeeze everything I like about the HP 4150 in a very similar form factor AND they shoehorned a CF slot and a VGA screen into the bargain. As a 4150 owner, this is a very compelling device. What are your thoughts?

[Raynne]

I currently own the Asus A716, and the 730 will definitely be my next purchase (when the WiFi/Bluetooth version comes out).

[Myrddin]

Not compelling to me. It seems a bit thicker than my 4155 and I really don't want that. I'm fine without VGA and whatever other wizz bang features... I don't want or need a camera either.

My 4155 will remain my PDA until something of the same or smaller size with the same features and NO camera comes out.

[T-Will]

I'll be waiting for the Wifi/no CF slot=thinner version. ;)

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

This device had me salivating.... until I saw the BetaPlayer tests.

Perhaps the commercial version of this device will fare much better, but looking at the BetaPlayer tests had me wanting a Toshiba e800 even more than before...

[shawnc]

Sweet looking machine but I agree with 2 earlier posts. Give me a wifi, no CF, thinner version and I'm all over it.

[gohtor]

price point is my major concern. followed by size and then features. I too prefer the 41xx but I am using a Dell x30 because of it's pricepoint and the fact that I broke my 1940 leaving me with a rather sour feeling towards HP's repair depot pricing.

I wonder how much a replacement vga screen would cost if i were to break this asus unit =)

[Hx4700]

Sweet Machine--
But why doesn't it have 624Mhz?
Now that would be sweeet!
Ron...

[powder2000]

How much is this going to cost? I really like it and would buy one if the price is right. I think that is the key to how many vga ppcs asus will sell compared to dell.

[Boxster S]

MEH! I'm sticking with my 4150 until something just as light and thin comes out without some stupid camera tacked on. Stupid integration BS.

Just gimme 624MHz, dual wireless, VGA and an SDIO slot in the form factor of the 4150 and I'll be happy.

[Phoenix]

What I think would make any Pocket PC fantastic, would be:

1) VGA screen

2) GSM/GPRS

3) WiFi and Bluetooth - both integrated.

4) Megapixel camera with flash.

5) Two SD slots.

Note: Why don't companies who put two slots in their devices focus on two SD slots, instead of just one SD and one CF? I'd like to have one SD slot where I could store an SD card that never had to be removed for the purpose of memory expansion where I would store programs and everything else, and a second SD slot - SDIO enabled - for either adding a peripheral when I want to or for swapping data from one SD device to the Pocket PC.

6) Integrated, hideaway or full time viewable thumb-type keyboard.

6) ...and of course, the usual stuff - fast processor, at least 128MB of memory, a powerful battery, and sleek, attractive styling.

[whydidnt]

I'm a likely purchaser, when the 128 MB model comes out. Not interested in a 64 MB "high end" model, unless it's a phone edition device (and even then I'd rather have 128). I was going to pre-order the bluetooth only model until I realized it was only 64 Megs. :(

[gorkon280]

I want CF for the times when I have to use my CF Modem. Believe it or not, there are times when a modem is all you can do. A majority of the time I would not need CF. I will miss the iPaq sleeves. My device that I am looking for:

128 MB (64 is OK I guess...this isn't so much as a requirement as it's a wish...)
GPRS or 1xRTT data connectivity
WiFi (b or g)
Bluetooth
Decently fast processor...200 is fine if it does everything I need.
1 or two SD
CF
640x480 lcd

[Lucan]

After looking at the photos comparing QVGA to VGA, I don't know how anybody could be happy with a 4150 even if it is thinner. I have a feeling that VGA is like color, once you see it, there is no going back. 8)


Lucan

[Kati Compton]

After looking at the photos comparing QVGA to VGA, I don't know how anybody could be happy with a 4150 even if it is thinner. I have a feeling that VGA is like color, once you see it, there is no going back. 8)
Normally I don't hold my 3.5" QVGA PDA close enough to see each individual pixel in detail... ;) 4", though, I'd agree.

[Boxster S]

After looking at the photos comparing QVGA to VGA, I don't know how anybody could be happy with a 4150 even if it is thinner. I have a feeling that VGA is like color, once you see it, there is no going back. 8)


Lucan

It's not worth the price of admission to upgrade quite frankly unless it at LEAST matches all of the 4150's features and form factor. Until then, I'm keeping my $$$ and 4150

[Lucan]

Don't get me wrong, I too wish Asus would drop the CF slot and make it thinner, but I have a feeling that the day you hold your 4150 next to a A730 and behold VGA in all its glory, you will walk away with displeasure for your 4150 and QVGA. Only time will tell I suppose. :D If only HP would update the 4150 with a VGA screen then we wouldn't have to choose between thin and VGA :cry:

Kati,

Surely your not suggesting that at normal viewing distances that VGA and QVGA will not look that different?

Lucan

[dh]

It's not worth the price of admission to upgrade quite frankly unless it at LEAST matches all of the 4150's features and form factor. Until then, I'm keeping my $$$ and 4150
Well, the A730 seems to match up with your 4150 rather well...

Processor - faster
RAM - 128 is more than 64
ROM - More
Screen - having used VGA for a couple of months, I know for a fact it's much better
Expansion - 2 slots gives more flexibility and potential for much more storage. Where can you put a microdrive or memory card bigger than 1GB if you only have a single SD slot?
Wireless - same for each (when the WiFi A730 arrives)
Form Factor - A730 is obviously slightly bigger

The advantages of the A730 appear to far outweigh the one disadvantage. Especially if you happen to be a power user and need lots of storage, I would think upgrading was an easy decision.

[Fishie]

This device had me salivating.... until I saw the BetaPlayer tests.

Perhaps the commercial version of this device will fare much better, but looking at the BetaPlayer tests had me wanting a Toshiba e800 even more than before...

Betaplayer is optimised for the ATI chip in the Toshiba, no such optimisations have yet been made for the Intel graphics chip in the ASUS.

Not a fair comparison, that being said I LOVE the betaplayer performance on my e800 :P

[Boxster S]

It's not worth the price of admission to upgrade quite frankly unless it at LEAST matches all of the 4150's features and form factor. Until then, I'm keeping my $$$ and 4150
Well, the A730 seems to match up with your 4150 rather well...

Processor - faster
RAM - 128 is more than 64
ROM - More
Screen - having used VGA for a couple of months, I know for a fact it's much better
Expansion - 2 slots gives more flexibility and potential for much more storage. Where can you put a microdrive or memory card bigger than 1GB if you only have a single SD slot?
Wireless - same for each (when the WiFi A730 arrives)
Form Factor - A730 is obviously slightly bigger

The advantages of the A730 appear to far outweigh the one disadvantage. Especially if you happen to be a power user and need lots of storage, I would think upgrading was an easy decision.

1) I only use 6.45 MB of storage RAM on my 4150. All of my programs are loaded onto my 512MB SD card. Extra RAM is ok, but not a necessity.

2) ROM. Again, nothing really all that appealing compared to my 4150.

3) Screen. I'd love VGA. That's one feature I'd like.

4) Expansion. With a single SDIO slot and dual-wireless, I could care less about dual slots. Just makes the device that much larger and heavier.

5) Wireless. I already have Bluetooth and WiFi, so I wouldn't even consider an Asus model unless it has both. It looks as though you'll have to WAIT longer for the A730 and of course...more $$$

6) Form-Factor. Asus is bigger b/c it has an added camera (what the heck; I'm tired of all of this crap being added to portable devices. If I want a camera, I'll bring along my Canon A70) and dual slots.

Bottom line. These manufacturers are doing too much to appeal to a HUGE range of people with one device instead of taking a multi-tiered approach (ala 1910, 1945/1935, 2215, 4150, 4350, etc) in which you can select the model you want and not get a bunch of added fluff that you aren't going to use and end up spending more for.

So......

Give me:

- 4150 form factor and weight
- Bluetooth and WiFi
- 520MHz + Bulverde processor
- VGA screen
- 64MB+
- Single SDIO slot

That's all I ask for. I like the migration that HP did from the 1910/1945 to the 4150. Same basic size and weight and shape with the added dual wireless capability. Now if someone would just do the same again and add a VGA screen and faster processor, that's all I need.

Extra fluff be damned.

[R K]

Surely your not suggesting that at normal viewing distances that VGA and QVGA will not look that different?

You may notice a difference, but it won't be as drastic as night & day like it is in the pictures. I think those extreme close-ups exagerate the difference a bit.
If I'm staring at my Pocket PC trying to tell the difference between VGA and QVGA, then I will probably see that VGA is much better, but in day-to-day use, I'll barely notice any difference.

Betaplayer is optimised for the ATI chip in the Toshiba, no such optimisations have yet been made for the Intel graphics chip in the ASUS.

Not a fair comparison, that being said I LOVE the betaplayer performance on my e800 :P

It may not be a fair comparison, but it is a real concern. What if Intel isn't as open with its graphics libraries as ATI is? What if an Intel optimized BetaPlayer never sees the light of day?

I remember that Gottahavit spent a long time optimizing PocketMVP for the ATI chip, so the Intel optimizations may take just as long, or even longer.

In my opinion, I think the Asus is going to be a great device but I do agree with the people that say the 520MHz CPU kind'o kills it. I don't understand why someone would put a less-than top-of-the-line CPU in a high end Pocket PC anyway.

[Marcel_Proust]

hmmm...this all strike me as still inferior to my e800. oddly thicker. the LxW dimensions are smaller, but you don't have a 4" screen. i think that's the min for full use of VGA.
1 cf and 1 sd is a good combo as it gives you choice. asus bat life should be better than Toshiba.

[Gator5000e]

This set up is actually perfect for me as the CF card slot allows me to use my Sprint CF modem card when I'm not near a wireless hot spot. Thus I prefer integrated bluetooth over WiFi so I can use various CF cards. I might change my opinion if one of the cellular carriers come out with a SD cellular card. Just need to find out the price and release date.

[Chucky]

I remember that Gottahavit spent a long time optimizing PocketMVP for the ATI chip, so the Intel optimizations may take just as long, or even longer.
No doubt it will take some time, however I expect there will be more than one PPC with the Intel graphics chip so therefore there would be more motivation to do it quickly and do it well.

Also, Intel would be shooting themselves in the foot not to open up the interface to the chip. Although I wouldn't put it passed them to open it up to Microsoft only so that Media Player is the only one capable of playing movies in VGA at a worthwhile speed.

[klinux]

I am willing to bet the # of people who want to get rid of CF = the # of people who would like it there.

I have a 10 megabit ethernet and a GPS CF card that I would like to use with any future VGA PPCs.

[Phoenix]

These Pocket PC's are getting better all the time, but thinking about what I would want just leads me to want a Moto MPx even more when they arrive.

All of its features aren't fluff to me - hardly - they're things I want and use.

When available, the MPx will offer more features and flexibility than anything out there - than anything on the horizon - except for the VGA screen. But on a 2.8" screen, although VGA would be nice, the lack of it isn't a big deal. On a 3.5 or 4" screen, it would be.

MPx for me. :)

[T-Will]

Does anyone know where USB peripherals hook up to this thing? Is it through the cradle? Or a sync dongle?

[omikron.sk]

Does anyone know where USB peripherals hook up to this thing? Is it through the cradle? Or a sync dongle?
AFAIK through the sync cable. I was a little bit disappointed, that I should have to carry a cable all around with m,e if I want to use USB host.

[Jorlin]

Does anyone know where USB peripherals hook up to this thing? Is it through the cradle? Or a sync dongle?

Take a look:

http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/mobile01-8a79a76deb9e9685d151a64453df8a0d.jpg


Currently I am waiting for the Loox720. It is supposed to be based on the same hardware as the Asus730.
But it will have WiFi and BT. A camera with a flash. Voice over IP. And the better design...

http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Sebastian.Potthoff/LOOX_700.jpg

(More on www.firstloox.org :wink: )

[Jorlin]

Does anyone know where USB peripherals hook up to this thing? Is it through the cradle? Or a sync dongle?
AFAIK through the sync cable. I was a little bit disappointed, that I should have to carry a cable all around with m,e if I want to use USB host.

Not really...
If you take a closer look to the photo I have posted you will see that it seems to be an adapter cable in which you can plug the carging cable...
So actually it is a small thing you will have to carry with you.

[omikron.sk]

Does anyone know where USB peripherals hook up to this thing? Is it through the cradle? Or a sync dongle?
AFAIK through the sync cable. I was a little bit disappointed, that I should have to carry a cable all around with m,e if I want to use USB host.

Not really...
If you take a closer look to the photo I have posted you will see that it seems to be an adapter cable in which you can plug the carging cable...
So actually it is a small thing you will have to carry with you.
I don't see anything. Broken link on your pic. :|

[Jorlin]

I don't see anything. Broken link on your pic. :|

Photo 11 on this site:
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=61&t=28218

Or try "right click" on the image within my post and "show image" (or whatever it is in English ;))

[picard]

It may not be a fair comparison, but it is a real concern. What if Intel isn't as open with its graphics libraries as ATI is? What if an Intel optimized BetaPlayer never sees the light of day?

actually ATI requires you to sign a NDA to use their SDK. this is why i had to do all thing by myself with an open-source project and probably this is why Marc couldn't release the latest sources of PocketMVP. Intel on the other hand releases many pdf about their chips. ofcoz this doesn't neccessary mean the 2700G developer API/SDK will be public, but i'am hoping for it. never the less the wireless mmx optimalizations could be done already, which would increase the playback speed probably a lot.

about the benchmark in the review: yes, it's not fair to compare with hardware acceleration even the non decoder speed of the E800 is using the hardware YUV->RGB color acceleration. i benchmarked RL_XQ on my E800 with simple GAPI interface from an CF card (i think the review benchmarks are from SD or CF flash card) and i got 41.43% compared to A730's 42.14%. ofcoz 400Mhz vs 520Mhz should make A730 even faster, but we don't know how fast the 2700G memory interface is, which is crucial in full screen VGA playback (with software decoding). so i think it's not that bad.

[picard]

and one more thing: i'am not sure the A730 has the new Intel 2700G Multimedia Accelerator. if it had there would have been huge announcements about the first PocketPC with real 3D acceleration. asus already showed this model on various shows:

http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=61&t=28218

ps: but then what could explain the not so fast video playback? ...

[Marcel_Proust]

Surely your not suggesting that at normal viewing distances that VGA and QVGA will not look that different?

You may notice a difference, but it won't be as drastic as night & day like it is in the pictures. I think those extreme close-ups exagerate the difference a bit.
If I'm staring at my Pocket PC trying to tell the difference between VGA and QVGA, then I will probably see that VGA is much better, but in day-to-day use, I'll barely notice any difference.

Betaplayer is optimised for the ATI chip in the Toshiba, no such optimisations have yet been made for the Intel graphics chip in the ASUS.

Not a fair comparison, that being said I LOVE the betaplayer performance on my e800 :P

It may not be a fair comparison, but it is a real concern. What if Intel isn't as open with its graphics libraries as ATI is? What if an Intel optimized BetaPlayer never sees the light of day?

I remember that Gottahavit spent a long time optimizing PocketMVP for the ATI chip, so the Intel optimizations may take just as long, or even longer.

In my opinion, I think the Asus is going to be a great device but I do agree with the people that say the 520MHz CPU kind'o kills it. I don't understand why someone would put a less-than top-of-the-line CPU in a high end Pocket PC anyway.

afraid to disagree, VGA makes a HUGE difference. Try it.

[felixdd]

The benchmark and betaplayer results are more than disappointing. I expected the device to blow away the competition, given Asus PPCs' reputation of being the "speed demons" of the PPC world.

Hopefully more optimization would be done to speed up the device. Not holding my breath though.

[Jorlin]

The benchmark and betaplayer results are more than disappointing. I expected the device to blow away the competition, given Asus PPCs' reputation of being the "speed demons" of the PPC world.

Hopefully more optimization would be done to speed up the device. Not holding my breath though.

Mobile-review.com says that all benchmarks have been made using VGA mode. It states that all the other benchmarks yet are made with devices running at QVGA. So there is nothing really compareable yet...

Let's wait what their conclusion will be...

...and let's not forget that this still is a pre-release device they are testing...

[Craig Horlacher]

I was going to get the toshiba e800 series but now I'll strongly consider this model. I've never been an iPaq fan.

[omikron.sk]

I don't see anything. Broken link on your pic. :|

Photo 11 on this site:
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=61&t=28218

Or try "right click" on the image within my post and "show image" (or whatever it is in English ;))
Yes, now I see what you've meant. It's quite probable that USB host cable is just small adapter that you connect to Asus, but I would like a normal port strightly on Asus more.

P.S. I tried "show image" several times, and also opening that pic in new window, but I got HTTP 403 (forbidden)

[picard]

Mobile-review.com says that all benchmarks have been made using VGA mode. It states that all the other benchmarks yet are made with devices running at QVGA. So there is nothing really compareable yet...

this statement is for the SPB benchmarks only. but BetaPlayer was run in VGA mode on the toshiba too. at least i got almost the same results with the same video on my toshiba in VGA resolution. but still the results are not compareable because of the usage of BetaPlayer's ATI hardware acceleration with toshiba.

[jedaharris]

:wink: I am a power user, and really want a large (4"), VGA screen, second edition so I can use landscape mode, fast processor (624 mhz), 2 slots (incl CF - I need more memory than 1 GB), Bluetooth 1.2 and WiFi, and as large a battery as possible (1800 or 3600 mH). If the iPac Hx 4700 matches the specs that have been reported, I've found my true love.

[Holo22]

7 page review here....
http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?cat=machinesppc&id=373

or
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=fr_en&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.pdafrance.com%2farticles%2farticle.php%3fcat%3dmachinesppc%26id%3d373

[ultraman]

Oh! Another ASUS A730 reviewed by pdafrance is just arround the corner.

Seems like the device will be released soon!!!

http://www.pdafrance.com/articles/article.php?cat=machinesppc&id=373

http://www.pdafrance.com/img/testproduit_pocketpc/a730/PICT0015.JPG

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ultraman]

Oh, I am a litttle bit late. haha, anyway here is the link for another online translate.

http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate?wl_lp=FR-EN&wl_fl=2&wl_rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.pdafrance.com%2Farticles%2Febookprint.php?id=373%2F&wl_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pdafrance.com%2Farticles%2Febookprint.php?id=373&wlg_table=-3

8O 8O 8O

[ultraman]

The second part of the review by mobile-review is ready now. It is in Russian.

http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/asus-a730-2.shtml

[epdm]

Naah that Asus A730 sucks.
Why?

Well i had an E800 for a shortwhile. And while I found the machine very fast in QVGA it's performance in VGA was a bit slugish. Ofcourse I understand that VGA requires 4x the same bandwith than QVGA but still I expected more. Especially since my last PPC was a genuine HP, the famous Jornada 568, which only had a 206Mhz SA processor.

If I look further then I see that while Intel increases MHz on their XScales the actual performance is not inline with the clockspeed increase. The same thing that happened with their Desktop CPU's. Everybody knows that a P4 at 800MHz would be slower or equal than a P3 at 800MHz while it should be significantly faster (in this case the fact that you "can" run the P4 at +2000Mhz makes it ofcourse faster but it still doesn't explain it's inefficiency). If I see that the Asus A730 has a 25% increase in clockspeed yet "allmost" 10% increase in actual real world performance (compared to the E800 at 400MHz) then this machine sucks big time. Compared to the already fast HP4150 things look even worse!

The newer XScale should be faster at the same clockspeed and SIGNIFICANTLY faster at higher clockspeed. In my terms that means at least 10% faster running at 400% and over 30% faster running at 520MHz. Especially the threshold to become a noticable speed increase is +30%. In this case the Asus (25% faster than the E800) would not give a faster perception.

No we either need better support for these cpu's or in the case of the Toshiba better drivers for it's videosubsystem. Because I think there's the potential for extra performance gain. In this respect it's a pitty nobody else uses these ATI gfx-chips as this would cultivate their widespread acceptance :-(

Things are going the wrong way with future PPC's :-(
Again the combination of Intel and Microsoft is a burden on actual improvement and technological achievement. If only RISC OS ran on these buggers :-(

[stevenmh]

I haven't seen anything mentioned regarding the infrared...does it CIR or SIR? I've gotten used to having Nevo on my iPAQ...although I could deal with using different software, I'm not sure SIR will make it very useful.

[Jereboam]

Suggest thread is locked before I really open up the taps.

Edit> Weren't we supposed to be discussing the Asus? Perhaps we can just split off and lock the CF/SD debate and continue with that? Like, for example, what's up with the downward stylus silo?

J'bm

[Kati Compton]

Compact Flash argument moved here:

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31427&sid=5a18f19da0d8c205056583eac5ee2456

Please continue any arguing there, not here. Thanks!

[Jereboam]

Cheers Kati.

Lots of people are saying the Asus is the same internally as the Loox...this isn't so, although it was with previous models.

Honestly, the thing putting me off most about the Asus is that downward stylus. Weird. Maybe better? I don't know...

J'bm

[Kati Compton]

Honestly, the thing putting me off most about the Asus is that downward stylus. Weird. Maybe better? I don't know...
It is one more thing to remember when you cradle your PDA - take out the stylus first so you can use it IN the cradle.

Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the more items get added to my list of wants for an "ideal" PDA. :P I think what'll just happen is that I'll hold off of buying something until I can't stand it anymore, and I'll just get the closest fit of what's currently out.