OQO at CeBIT: Pictures & Impressions

[Janak Parekh]

Perhaps the most interesting aspect of CeBIT America this year was the presence of OQO. While they didn't have a booth, they did have a small meeting room in which they were inviting press members to try out actual, functional handheld Windows XP devices. Curious about what we saw and played with? Read on!<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-collapsed-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-collapsed-small.jpg" /></a><br /><!><i>Figure 1: The OQO, collapsed, in all its glory.</i><br /><br />We'll first briefly talk about the mechanics of the device, and then each of us will give you our detailed thoughts on the device. You can click on the pictures to see a larger, more detailed version. Note that most of the pictures were taken with the OQO at default brightness, which is not the maximum due to power management. We've pointed out the images that were taken at maximum brightness, although due to the flash you won't get a precise experience of the screen's brightness.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-docked-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-docked-small.jpg" /></a><br /><i>Figure 2: The OQO docked in its cradle.</i><br /><br />The cradle is an essential component of the OQO, as the unit itself only has a USB 1.1 and a Firewire port for expansion. (The cradle adds additional USB and Firewire ports, Ethernet, and audio out.)<br /><br />The OQO model 01 is a full x86 computer packed in a reasonably small, hand-held form factor. It's running a Transmeta Crusoe processor at 1GHz, with 256MB of RAM (fixed, not expandable) and a 20GB hard drive. The device features an 800x480 display. For input, it features a touch screen, a thumbboard and a TrackStik (which is a pointing device very similar to other Trackpoint/eraser-head input devices found on laptops); the screen slides up along a track to reveal the thumbboard and joystick. The device also has 802.11b and Bluetooth. Interestingly, the unit ships with XP Home or Professional, but <i>not</i> XP Tablet PC edition -- although the touch screen is supposed to be compatible with the Tablet PC specification (it's electrostatic, not pressure-sensitive), so a customer could install it if desired.<br /><br />The OQO folks have priced the unit to be competitive with a laptop -- it will sell for under $2,000, but above $1,500. The unit is slated to ship "this fall"; take that for what you will. ;)<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-expanded-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-expanded-small.jpg" /></a><br /><i>Figure 3: The OQO expanded, showing its thumbboard and TrackStik.</i><br /><br />The unit is clearly designed to be held in landscape orientation, in both hands. While it may be possible to one-hand the device, the form factor isn't really designed for it. To give you an idea of the size, here's a few pictures of the OQO next to Suhit's iPAQ 2215 and Janak's e805. Note that the e805 is using an extended battery, which adds a considerable amount of bulk, although it boosts the battery life up to around 10-15 hours. Incidentally, the OQO's battery is rated for 2-4 hours of life, much like a laptop.<br /><br />The OQO is noticeably bigger than the iPAQ 2215.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-iPAQ-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-iPAQ-small.jpg" /></a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-expanded-vs-iPAQ-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-expanded-vs-iPAQ-small.jpg" /></a><br /><i>Figures 4, 5: The OQO in retracted and expanded form next to an iPAQ 2215 with a Linksys CF WiFi card inserted.</i><br /><br />The OQO is more comparable to the e805 in size, although it's still wider and longer. The thickness of the OQO is comparable to the e805 with its extended battery (approximately .9" thick). For comparison purposes, Janak put his e805 into landscape 640x480 mode (it's running Windows Mobile 2003 First Edition, using MyVGA as a "hack" to get the high resolution). Figures 6 and 7 were taken with both devices at their maximum brightness. Note that the OQO does not support portrait mode explicitly (although one may be able to employ some Windows-based screen rotation software).<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-e805-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-e805-small.jpg" /></a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-expanded-vs-e805-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-expanded-vs-e805-small.jpg" /></a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-e805-side-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-e805-side-small.jpg" /></a><br /><i>Figures 6, 7, 8: The OQO in retracted, expanded form next to a Toshiba e805 running in landscape, as well as a side shot. You can see the three connectors used by the OQO's dock, a jog dial/scroll wheel, and a USB port.</i><br /><br />Finally, just to give you a better idea of scale, we took a picture of the three devices side-by-side and at an angle. Unsurprisingly, the iPAQ 2215 is the thinnest of the three.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-PPCs-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-PPCs-small.jpg" /></a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-PPCs-angle-big.jpg"><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/parekh/features/CeBIT-2004-OQO/OQO-vs-PPCs-angle-small.jpg" /></a><br /><i>Figures 9, 10: The iPAQ 2215, the OQO, and the Toshiba e805 side-by-side and at an angle.</i><br /><br />Finally, we'll present our opinions on the devices. Suhit looked at the device from a digital media perspective, Kati looked at it from a mobile professional perspective and, finally, Janak looked at it from a Pocket PC/PDA perspective.<br /><br /><b>Suhit's thoughts</b><br /><br />I liked the unit for sure, but I find that there are several problems with the device. Probably a 3.5/5 if I had to rate it. It is light, and the design is innovative. It also has built in Wi-Fi which is excellent. It is running the full WindowsXP operating system and comes with the Office suite so that makes it a completely usable device but the pros pretty much end there.<br /><br />The OQO will sell for just under $2000 which means the company is targeting the business/professional users that are constantly on the go. The price is prohibitive IMHO when it comes to a consumer trying to buy this product. When I pressed them about possibly reducing the price, or coming out with an OQO Lite (for consumers) or perhaps even an OQO 2, there was no information on the subject.<br /><br />My second complaint was the USB 1.1. Apparently there is no USB 2 chip in the unit due to the lack of space in the unit. Completely understandable reason but that makes the device less attractive in my opinion. They say that if you do want to install software on the OQO, it is usually quite fast, i.e. not slow enough to prohibit one from using it. But my thinking is that the unit should not be just at par but well above it when it comes to transfer rates. Imagine trying to install a large program on the unit using USB 1.1. Well, at least there is a Firewire port.<br /><br />One odd thing I noticed was the screen sensitivity and calibration problem. The units we played with were not fully calibrated for the stylus provided though apparently that will be fixed when the units are ready for shipping. However what's worse is that whenever I tapped the screen of the OQO with the stylus, I felt like the screen was not hard enough (unlike those of PocketPCs or TabletPCs). It felt a little too soft and I kept disturbing the matrix of the LCD screen (you know, the effect you get when you touch the screen of a regular laptop, that watery effect). I wish the screen of the OQO was a bit harder.<br /><br />From a media perspective, one of the downsides is that there are no flash ports for SD/CF/whatever. Now, even though there is a 20GB drive built in, if I were taking pictures and wanted to transfer them real quick to my OQO, I would not be able to do it. I guess we will have to wait until cameras have Wi-Fi built in so we can send data over to the OQO via that channel.<br /><br />Final point - 3D and media capabilities. They did not have any demos set up for it but the claim is that the unit is capable of reasonable 3D graphics (apparently as attested to by people at E3 this year). The device has regular MPG support, but the battery life suffers when you play media (but of course that is true with all units).<br /><br />The unit will be available this Fall (no idea when) and even though I wouldn't mind having one of these to play with, I don't think it will become my primary device/PC, something that the company claims can be done.<br /><br /><b>Kati's thoughts</b><br /><br />I thought the OQO was a very cute, very powerful device for its size. While gadget-lust means that I want one, however, I'm still not QUITE convinced that this unit can be a complete laptop replacement for a wide variety of business professionals. Personally, I found the keyboard very difficult to use, especially the space bar. I played with a 4355 later in the day and that thumb board was significantly easier for me to use. I personally feel that while small size and weight make the OQO very attractive to the now-cliched "mobile professional", the "ease of use" will also affect its appeal. The OQO staff pointed out that it can be used with a bluetooth keyboard on the road, and as collapsible BT keyboards come out on the market, this may negate some of my concerns. However, one would also need to carry a stand to place the OQO at the right angle for typing with that keyboard, and I'm not sure how visible fonts at that high resolution will be, given that the unit would be set back behind the keyboard. I found I needed to hold it somewhat close in order to read the screen comfortably.<br /><br />I noticed the same problems as Suhit when using the stylus on the touch screen. I am not overly concerned about the stylus calibration of the unit I was using being "off", because the staff indicated that the units would be calibrated at the factory. I did, however, have a hard time "clicking". It generally took *several* times, and each time I felt like I was damaging the screen, as I would *never* want to press that hard with a pointy object on my laptop screen. As Suhit indicated, it "felt" more like a laptop screen than a PDA screen or Tablet screen. While I am already concerned about screen damage on a PDA, I would be even more concerned about the OQO given this "softness". I hope they can offer a hard flip cover on this or a future model.<br /><br />While I could never use a unit like this for my main PC (I have pretty hefty computing requirements for my job), the specs seem like they could be quite reasonable for a wide segment of the population (though I would not include serious gamers). The major roadblock as I see it is convincing people that it is worth the "just under" $2000 price tag (plus the cost of a separate keyboard and monitor), when they can get a new super-sweet thin-and-light laptop for a similar price, or a regular laptop for half that.<br /><br /><b>Janak's thoughts</b><br /><br />Now that the OQO's specs and pricing are essentially confirmed, I think it's clear that the OQO is <i>not</i> a PDA replacement for several reasons. First of all, the price puts it firmly into the laptop range, as it can easily cost 4-5 times more than a typical Pocket PC. Second, the device is not designed to be used one-handed. I can pull out my Pocket PC and tap on the screen with my finger (if I'm brave) or just use the app buttons and get very close to the information I need. On the OQO, the experience is akin to a full desktop -- you'd have to click on the Outlook icon, or do something similar. While the OQO's display is surprisingly readable given the resolution, the interface is designed for a desktop, and it's slightly awkward to quickly (say, with one or two taps) to pull up information on a contact. Finally, the OQO has similar semantics to a laptop or tablet PC when it comes to resume. While the OQO may, in its final release, be able to resume as fast as my Toshiba Tablet PC (which is within approximately .5-1.5 seconds), you'd still have to wait for the operating system to "catch its breath" to enable you to switch or start Outlook. Compare that to a Pocket PC, where you have the Contacts applet open in under half-a-second, and it doesn't have the same sense of immediacy. Incidentally, we had some trouble with the suspend/resume functionality being unstable; I assume that's an issue that'll be corrected before release.<br /><br />Where devices like the OQO may really shine is when paired with a device like a Smartphone. If the Smartphone has just enough functionality to take care of "immediate" PDA needs, the OQO would act as a bridge to full desktop-like functionality. For example, I could imagine carrying a Bluetooth-enabled Smartphone around, where I could do basic Contacts, Calendar and email tasks, while if I need to write out a detailed email or put special notes in a Contact I'd just pull out the OQO and have it talk to the Smartphone over Bluetooth. The real question is whether or not my hypothesized "Smartphone" is a Pocket PC Phone, a Windows Mobile Smartphone, or a different device altogether.<br /><br />Finally, I have to chime in with Kati and Suhit about the input mechanisms on the OQO build we played with. The touch screen wasn't sufficiently responsive and the keyboard was sufficiently small that, for someone like me, it's not going to replace my tablet PC - just yet - either a Pocket PC's touch screen is sufficient for what I'm doing, or I need a full laptop keyboard. That said, I'm sure the OQO folks will continue to improve the product, and with careful handling the unit may carve out its own niche. That is, <i>when</i> it ships. ;)

[klinux]

:drool:

Oooo, I want one. {Looks in wallet} Well, maybe next year.

:)

[captain]

thanks for the in depth word, janak! much appreciated.

---
OQO, FlipStart PC, Sony U-series
<font size="3" color="green">HANDTOP HQ</font> (http://handtops.com)

[CTSLICK]

thanks for the in depth word, janak! much appreciated.

And Kati and Suhit!! :wink:

Somehow I get the feeling that the OQO is leading us in a new direction for computing in general that could be very cool. Janak's point about using the OQO with a mobile device like a Smartphone could be compelling.

I am just not sure if the OQO will survive the race. Being first doesn't always work. But I am glad they are blazing the trail!

[Ryan Joseph]

Even with all the concerns you guys have, this still looks like a promising device.

The first version may not be perfect and it may not replace, per se, any devices currently on the market, it will provide an alternative to some.

And it's great to see companies striving to create devices like this. The technology used to cram that much stuff into such a small package could be used to improve our Pocket PCs in the future.

And Jason? When PPCT gets a test unit, I enthusiastically volunteer to review it. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[PR.]

Looks too crushed tbh, the low resolution must realy play havoc with Outlook 2003 and othe apps that benefit from hi-res.

I'd rather have a VGA PDA and a Tablet PC

[mdavidm]

I love this device, and want to own one, but if OQO follows their previous pattern, the device will be nothing more than a great show device. This is their second impressive product, and I have been reading about it for almost a year, but they have never actually produced a retail product. Two great show models, yet never a public rollout. I hope this one makes it, because I have 200+ clients who would probably buy them!

[felixdd]

I think that the OQO is way ahead of its time -- a full-fledged PC in this form factor is not quite useful in today's environment yet.

That said, I think the value in the OQO is research -- the technological approach and know-how gained this device will be crucial in the development of probably many other consumer electronics out there, no matter PDA, MP3 player, etc.

On a different note -- when this machine finally ships I wonder how it will fare against the Sony U50/70....

[omikron.sk]

Very good article, I liked 3 points of view very much.
But, ... I don't know why you all are so impressed with it. IMO this device is barely usables as *thinking a bit* anything. Can you use it as a PPC for PIM managment? Barely (I want to see somebody having this in his/her Pocket). Usable as an regular PC/notebook? Don't think so: unusable keyboard for serious typing and mouse for serious "pointing" (OK, I can carry around external ones, but where's the portability then? - in that price it is not problem to buy a REAL PC/notebook), display - too low resolution for anything serious AND the screen is such small that you cannot even see that-NONserious-things. Batery life - 2 hours. Do you really think? Have you ever seen a batery in notebook? It is almost the same size as a OQO itself. I don't think that this can have some-suprisingly-small-and-powerful battery inside.
The last question: what is it assumed to be - a handheld? (NO, too big); a notebook? (NO way, no way!). I think it belongs in whole new category: at-least-in-3-hands-held. WinXP is OK, but really as usable as running Win95 under Bochs in Pocket PC (who tried, knows what I'm talking about :wink: ).
Does anybody of you really plan to buy this THING? And what about buying combo notebook & PPC at almost same price and MUCH higher performance and usability?

[Enderet]

My best guess is that they did not install XP Tablet Edition, because of the extra ram that would be in use by the OS. Considering that it is a transmeta crusoe, and that that in itself makes it a ram hungry processor, because of all the processing it needs to do to change the "code" (or whatever you want to call it), adding even more stress to the already small amount of ram (256), would have been bad.

[Marcel_Proust]

Like the other people, I think this opens up a promising direction for devices. I would think in the long term, there is no reason why xp or it's equivalent couldn't be the only standard, even in small devices. That would save us costs in programs.
However, I'm not sure I'll be trading in my e800 quite yet - and its soon to arrive bluetooth keyboard. The size comparison is with the e800 extended battery. With the normal slimmer battery I would get more than the 2-4 hours of the oqo, and at almost half the size.
The keyboard looks very awkward. I think either a blackberry type one or a larger 720 almost touch type would have been better. This is in between and I'm nt sure anywhere.
This is still a first gen product but hey, it's smaller than my old newton.

[captain]

as i covered (http://www.handtops.com/show/news/13), the OQO isn't *really* blazing new ground. the IBM PC110 many many years ago was a tiny handheld full Windows running box. then came the Sony U101 and this month, the Sony U50/70 are coming out.

technicalities aside, the OQO will be one of the first handtops released in North America. again, as noted in the above article, i've seen many articles that have OQO folks saying that the product is being targeted at business pro's and hospitals, not us end users, at least primarily. the OQO has many strengths (wacom based touch screen, to market this year, sliding keyboard), but as pointed out in the article it has many weaknesses. there's also the FlipStart PC coming out soon, or, well, Q1 2005'ish, if you can call that soon, which has many improvements over the OQO. check this comparison chart (http://www.handtops.com/show/compare) for differences.

there's a video out with the OQO CEO taking the OQO out of his shirt pocket and while i'm sure they strategically got a big enough shirt, it doesn't look like it weighs the pocket down and it fits nicely, the unit *is* under 1lb, so i don't think it'll be that bad.

[Gen-M]

Great article. The soft screen does bother me.

I know that they are redesigning the multiple interface cable, but is that going to ship with the product? I'm looking at the OQO as a possible wearable computer, with HMD and external keyboard (Bluetooth keyboard and/or Frogpad), and the interface cable (used without the docking station) is a major plus. You did not mention it in this article.

The other thing that OQO has right is that they did NOT include a camera. I understand Suhit's desire to move pictures from his camera to the OQO. That can be done with a USB card reader. But if they had put a camera in the OQO (as Vulcan is doing with the FlipStart), then two things would be true: 1) Low resolution compared to what I can get with an external camera, and 2) I would not be able to take the device to work with me (security guards do not have a sense of humor).

I agree with those who pointed out that many of the specs need to be improved (Disk and Battery are my priorities). But that is what version 2.0 is all about. As the man once said, "It is not how well the bear dances, but that it dances at all." I admire OQO for sticking with it over the last two years and finally getting a product to market, unlike Tiqit who was there first, and still has no commercial product.

[x999x]

As a hovering freelance designer with a few daily pitstops, this device is exactly what I've been looking for, and is essentially what I've been doing on a much more limited scale with my PPC. I lead an active lifestyle, and if I'm not riding my mountain bike to one office, I'm riding my motorcyle to another, so a laptop has never been my first choice of data transport and management.

Thanks for all the juicy pictures, and despite it's shortcomings, the fact that my dream device has been realized is enough reason for me to start saving for one now.

Gadget lust kills.
:devilboy:

[azhiker]

I give it less than a year for this company to die, unless they lower the price. Why spend almost two grand for something that will tear up your shirt pocket? When for $600 you can have a VGA PPC that fits nicely and does almost as much?

When I need a laptop I will bring one for the useful larger screen, but I will always need a PPC to do all the other stuff.

For the money I'd spring for a tablet PC before this OQO brick ! :twisted:

[Kacey Green]

imagine this with a windows 2000 or 2003 server a desktop or laptop and roaming profiles that would be awesome! (forget AS except when doing your daily sync with only one of these devices!)

[ruarch5]

what if they just built the same thing...but used Intrynsic's Carbonado specs...It would only be running WM2003SE, but I'm sure it'd be the device to buy.

WM can get bigger...whereas XP isnt likely to get smaller. It could be even smaller and have a 24 hour battery life...instant on...WiFi + Bluetooth...USB2...USB host...Video out...all for under $700. I think that would sell a lot more...

Any takers?

[Warwick]

Looking forward to the day these things "can" replace my desktop. Its coming, this proves we are on the way.

[HTK]

I don´t thank those 3 responsible for this
I blame them :evil:

NOW I WANT ONE !!!!

:mrgreen:

the nicest part for me is the head to head comparison with toshiba´s bull

[Tom W.M.]

The thing that truly must be fixed with this device is the RAM. Everything that I've heard indicates that 256MB is not enough for XP. With a mere 256, I might consider running Windows 2000. But since 128MB isn't enough for that OS (when running modern apps, like Firefox (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/)) I'd consider it the minimum tolerable.

It costs too much, anyway.

[jlp]

I'm not impressed by the poor quality of the pictures. They look very unexperimented-amateur-ish: how can we actually compare the units if you place dark devices on a dark background? Then the lack of good lighting makes it even harder. Very amateurish again.

Then many reviewers stack devices and shoot the side and top, even the bottom to better show their thickness, length and connectivity.

I'm very surprised that Suhit, the digital media "expert" reports "From a media perspective, one of the downsides is that there are no flash ports for SD/CF/whatever. Now, even though there is a 20GB drive built in, if I were taking pictures and wanted to transfer them real quick to my OQO, I would not be able to do it." (emphasis added) The "expert" seems to ignore the availability of credit card sized USB all-in-one card readers.

When talking about the high (everything's relative) price of the OQO, Kati seems to ignore the enormous success of the iPod mini which reflects that people tend to prefer smaller and lighter devices vs more capable and powerful ones.

This user behavior amazes me as well, but the iPod mini's success shows a trend that the OQO is surfing on.

I'll also add that Thinkoutside's Stowaway XT Bluetooth foldable keyboard includes a device stand to prop it. For our Slovakian friend, omikron.sk, this PPC sized foldable keyboard makes a very portable solution, FYI.

Besides, some readers suggestions that a notebook with a PPC is a smarter (read less expensive) solution. I have 2 bad news for you: trraditional notebooks can't fit in a shirt pocket and PPCs don't include a 20 GB HDD, don't run WinXP apps, don't include 256 MB RAM, a Firewire and USB connectors, can't offer full print capabilities, can't drive desktop keyboards, screens, scanners, optical drives/burners, etc. etc.

For those who insist on a one handed solution, this is highly overrated: I don't know abour your PPC but mine (Axim X5), the iPaq 2210 and the Toshiba e805 and probably most others still require the use of 2 hands for turning it on, pressing a hardware launch button, using the dpad, etc. etc.

Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing.

And thousands of US corporations understand this well as they've been that many to want to enter OQO's pilot program, and this without any commercial ads.

So imagine the OQO's huge success with nice, enticing ads running in nationwide newspapers and TV channels. I can 8)

On the plus side the article mentions the possibility to intelligently and efficently pair the OQO with a smartphone and use each one's strenghts in different situations.

.

[nosmohtac]

It's great to see this thing finally getting ready to be sold. It's been talked about for - what - three year now? Still, I'm not going for it. I don't think there's anything wrong with the price, It's just that they took so long to bring this thing into actual production, that it's already behind the times. USB1.1? 20GB? I'll wait for the flipstart PC from Vulcan. It's rumored to be in the 1200-1500 price range, has USB 2.0, and a 30GB hard drive. Best of all, the flipstart is a hinged device, so there is no worry about screen protection.

edit: Actually the best part of the flipstartPC is the LID (Low power Interactive Display)

[Kati Compton]

I'm not impressed by the poor quality of the pictures. They look very unexperimented-amateur-ish: how can we actually compare the units if you place dark devices on a dark background? Then the lack of good lighting makes it even harder. Very amateurish again.
I'll make sure to tell the OQO folks that next time they should bring a white tablecloth and increase the lighting in their meeting room if they want good pictures. :roll: Looks fine on my monitor.

Then many reviewers stack devices and shoot the side and top, even the bottom to better show their thickness, length and connectivity.

I'm very surprised that Suhit, the digital media "expert" reports "From a media perspective, one of the downsides is that there are no flash ports for SD/CF/whatever. Now, even though there is a 20GB drive built in, if I were taking pictures and wanted to transfer them real quick to my OQO, I would not be able to do it." (emphasis added) The "expert" seems to ignore the availability of credit card sized USB all-in-one card readers.
He was surprised it wasn't built-in. Which is what he said. Your use of quotes around "expert" is very insulting, as well as your "amaturish" statements. If you want to discuss what you see as the plusses and the minuses of the article, that's fine, but do it without being insulting, please.

When talking about the high (everything's relative) price of the OQO, Kati seems to ignore the enormous success of the iPod mini which reflects that people tend to prefer smaller and lighter devices vs more capable and powerful ones.
The price of the ipod mini is much less than $2K. And I didn't say that *no one* would buy it. Just that most people probably won't pick this over a $1200 laptop. Remember - the people that go to these shows, and the people that visit these forums, tend to have higher technological requirements/desires than the "average" person.

I have 2 bad news for you: trraditional notebooks can't fit in a shirt pocket and PPCs don't include a 20 GB HDD, don't run WinXP apps, don't include 256 MB RAM, a Firewire and USB connectors, can't offer full print capabilities, can't drive desktop keyboards, screens, scanners, optical drives/burners, etc. etc.
Well, my pockets wouldn't fit the OQO or the stowaway Bluetooth keyboard. ;) And my purse is even too small. So I have to carry a separate bag anyway. Plus, if I'm traveling, I usually have a carryon for "stuff to do" that fits my laptop regardless.

Again, I'm not saying this is a horrible device - I think it's cute. I'm not saying that no one should use it. I'm saying that I don't think *everyone* will use it.

Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing.
This depends on the needs of the user. Not everyone is willing to make the same compromises. But unless the device suddenly gets a 1.5GHz processor and at *least* 512 MB RAM, there's no way I could make it my main machine even if I wanted to. So a pocketable XP device is currently not in the cards for me. But a PPC is, as I like having a PDA, and the instant-on is very helpful for looking up contacts and such.

Please, try to remember that everyone doesn't share your needs. It's a nice machine, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have flaws. It's a question of WHICH flaws any one individual can tolerate. For some, perhaps even many, the flaws of the OQO may be minor or of no consequences. For others, they will be a deal-breaker.

[Janak Parekh]

I'm not impressed by the poor quality of the pictures. They look very unexperimented-amateur-ish: how can we actually compare the units if you place dark devices on a dark background? Then the lack of good lighting makes it even harder. Very amateurish again.
In addition to what Kati said, we spent less than 5 minutes taking those shots. If you think it's so easy, try photographing handheld devices on the spot. It is not, and I have tried many, many times. The one I regret that we didn't take was a "shot in the hand" to give a better idea of scale.

Then many reviewers stack devices and shoot the side and top, even the bottom to better show their thickness, length and connectivity.
Agreed -- and if this was a review, we'd have done so. It was not - it was a quick look during a short meeting.

The "expert" seems to ignore the availability of credit card sized USB all-in-one card readers.
It's a feature he wants. Note that PDAs have that built-in CF slot, for example, which makes it extremely convenient to view pictures on them. Try dangling a USB reader while walking down the street trying to view pictures.

When talking about the high (everything's relative) price of the OQO, Kati seems to ignore the enormous success of the iPod mini
To be precise, the iPod Mini is $249. The OQO, from our indications, will cost ~ $1,800 or $1,900. The iPod Mini is perhaps a "premium", but it's in a totally different price bracket.

which reflects that people tend to prefer smaller and lighter devices vs more capable and powerful ones.
If that's the case, they'll prefer PDAs (smaller and lighter) to OQOs (more powerful and capable).

This user behavior amazes me as well, but the iPod mini's success shows a trend that the OQO is surfing on.
Have you held an iPod mini? The reasons it's successful have almost nothing to do with the OQO's target market.

For those who insist on a one handed solution, this is highly overrated: I don't know abour your PPC but mine (Axim X5), the iPaq 2210 and the Toshiba e805 and probably most others still require the use of 2 hands for turning it on, pressing a hardware launch button, using the dpad, etc. etc.
Not mine. ;) I carry an i700 Pocket PC phone and can turn it on and dial with one hand. I do it all the time.

Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing.
For you -- but your scenario is not necessarily everyone's. And as I said, paired with the Smartphone, I'd seriously be tempted by the OQO as a mobile computing solution. In fact, if you really read the post, all of us were generally upbeat about it. But thanks to your condescending, rude post, I'm feeling negative about it again. :?

--janak

[Pony99CA]

I'm not impressed by the poor quality of the pictures. They look very unexperimented-amateur-ish: how can we actually compare the units if you place dark devices on a dark background?
While the photos weren't magazine-quality, I found them good enough to get some idea of what the OQO was about.

As for being "amateurish", unless I'm sadly mistaken, neither Janak nor Kati are professional journalists or photographers (I'm not as familiar with Suhit). For amateurs writing and taking pictures, I think they did just fine.

If you want professional journalism and photography, maybe PC World would be better for you. :byebye:

Steve

P.S. Are you the same "jlp" who said on pocketnow that a detailed comparison of three DVD-to-Pocket PC programs wouldn't be much more work than individual reviews of two of the programs?

If you don't like these free previews and reviews, maybe you could do some on your Web site. Oh, wait, you don't list one....

[captain]

Why spend almost two grand for something that will tear up your shirt pocket? When for $600 you can have a VGA PPC that fits nicely and does almost as much?
you almost answered your own question -- because a PPC doesn't do "as much", and in this case, it doesn't do anywhere NEAR as much. we're talking about a 1Ghz PC, not stripped down PPC, *big* diff. it may not suit your needs, but it's making a hell of a lot of people extremely excited. and give the price some time, just like laptops have decreased in price over the years, so will handtops. read jlp's comments on page 3 for more reasons why a handtop like the OQO is leaps and bounds more feature-packed than a PPC. that doesn't mean it's better, better is always just relative to your needs.

Everything that I've heard indicates that 256MB is not enough for XP.
then the sony u70 may be more to your liking, as it comes with 512mb, but it's markedly more expensive than the OQO, but it's available now -- comparison (http://www.handtops.com/show/compare)

I'm not impressed by the poor quality of the pictures. They look very unexperimented-amateur-ish: how can we actually compare the units if you place dark devices on a dark background?
well, i'm going to assume that the photos were taken at CeBit, so it's not like the reporters can take it into a product shoot room, i've seen far worse pics of the OQO. there's more (on white bg) here (http://www.handtops.com), towards the bottom right, click the little >> to flip through them.

It's rumored to be in the 1200-1500 price range, has USB 2.0, and a 30GB hard drive. Best of all, the flipstart is a hinged device, so there is no worry about screen protection.
i agree, i'm very interested in the FS as well, but the downer here is that the OQO is coming out this fall, the flipstart isn't even officially slated for Q1 2005, i have yet to get an official word from them on that. good call on the LID tho, it is (link) (http://www.handtops.com/show/news/7) the way forward.

as for the comments about most people not wanting this device or it not suiting their needs, everyone is under the impression that it's targeted towards end-users, it's not, from what i've read from other CeBit reports anyways, it's being targeted primarily at business professional, hospitals and the like. for whom such a device may be perfectly targeted -- non-clamshell design, pen features, lightweight, slide-out keyboard so it's not intrusive, etc...

[omikron.sk]

jlp: :twak: :bangin: :snipersmile:

[suhit]

I'm not impressed by the poor quality of the pictures. They look very unexperimented-amateur-ish: how can we actually compare the units if you place dark devices on a dark background? Then the lack of good lighting makes it even harder. Very amateurish again.
Umm, I guess I should apologize for their poor quality of the images. But in my defense, I was not carrying around a tripod and I certainly did not have time to touch up every/any photograph before posting them up (on account of being a full time student and stuff). Plus, like Kati and Janak point out, we had only a little time and had to make the best of our surroundings.
I'm very surprised that Suhit, the digital media "expert" reports "From a media perspective, one of the downsides is that there are no flash ports for SD/CF/whatever. Now, even though there is a 20GB drive built in, if I were taking pictures and wanted to transfer them real quick to my OQO, I would not be able to do it." (emphasis added) The "expert" seems to ignore the availability of credit card sized USB all-in-one card readers.
I stick by my comment here. The OQO representative clearly wanted this to be a PC and PDA replacement and it is no doubt a fantastic device in terms of functionality. But then they don't have any flash memory slots (CF/SD, even PCMCIA, nothing) which I think is essential in today's world of digital cameras and MP3 players. So if you want to view images/videos taken by your digital camera, or transfer them or any other data (like music) from some device in order to (for example) create space on your flash card, you will have to either use a PDA or, like you point out, a USB based flash memory reader. But, in either case, this means you have to lug around another piece of hardware. Plus, it is a USB 1.1 port. So how long are you going to wait while balancing the OQO and a dangling USB card reader? This is compounded especially since the capacity of flash memory cards is only getting larger.
When talking about the high (everything's relative) price of the OQO, Kati seems to ignore the enormous success of the iPod mini which reflects that people tend to prefer smaller and lighter devices vs more capable and powerful ones.
Firstly, the price difference between the iPod mini and the OQO is an order of magnitude. Secondly, even OQO realizes that the price is high for the average consumer and are aiming this device at members of industry and/or businessmen.
Besides, some readers suggestions that a notebook with a PPC is a smarter (read less expensive) solution. I have 2 bad news for you: trraditional notebooks can't fit in a shirt pocket and PPCs don't include a 20 GB HDD, don't run WinXP apps, don't include 256 MB RAM, a Firewire and USB connectors, can't offer full print capabilities, can't drive desktop keyboards, screens, scanners, optical drives/burners, etc. etc.
Yeah, but where are you going to store that USB flash reader of yours ;-). Plus, you may need to carry the cradle/charger due to the limited battery life. Hmm, perhaps you have the Scott e-Vest? ;-). Oh and think of how many women wear shirts with front pockets or trousers with large pockets.

And as for laptop portability, note that I had an article on DMT (http://www.digitalmediathoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,5557) about the CeBIT press event where the Sharp Actius MM20 amazed all, and it is priced under $1500.
And thousands of US corporations understand this well as they've been that many to want to enter OQO's pilot program, and this without any commercial ads. So imagine the OQO's huge success with nice, enticing ads running in nationwide newspapers and TV channels. I can 8)
There is no doubt that this is an innovative and very cool device. And I certainly hope it if successful becuase then they might release a device that is affordable for those of us that can't afford it in its current form.

Suhit

[Jonathon Watkins]

The other thing that OQO has right is that they did NOT include a camera. I understand Suhit's desire to move pictures from his camera to the OQO. That can be done with a USB card reader. But if they had put a camera in the OQO (as Vulcan is doing with the FlipStart), then two things would be true: 1) Low resolution compared to what I can get with an external camera, and 2) I would not be able to take the device to work with me (security guards do not have a sense of humor).

Darn right. What is it with these integrated cameras in PDAs? :roll: Lost sales ahoy for FlipStart! :evil:

At Gen-M said, at least OQO got that part right. :)

[Ryan Joseph]

What is it with these integrated cameras in PDAs? :roll: Lost sales ahoy for FlipStart! :evil:

I understand that some people can't have cameras because of work, but I love the idea. I just got my i-mate and, I have to say, the integrated camera is one of my favorite parts.

And I think a camera would be even more useful in the OQO.

But I'm allowed to take my device to work, sooo... :wink:

[Jonathon Watkins]

Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing.

For you perhaps, but not everyone.

I was disappointed by your graceless post JLP. :? Kati, Janak and Suhit put a lot of thought and hard work into their CeBit posts. It's fine to disagree with folks, but please lets stay polite and not get personal. :)

As a keen photographer myself I thought the photos were fine, especially considering the circumstances.

[Kati Compton]

Why spend almost two grand for something that will tear up your shirt pocket? When for $600 you can have a VGA PPC that fits nicely and does almost as much?
you almost answered your own question -- because a PPC doesn't do "as much", and in this case, it doesn't do anywhere NEAR as much. we're talking about a 1Ghz PC, not stripped down PPC, *big* diff. it may not suit your needs, but it's making a hell of a lot of people extremely excited. and give the price some time, just like laptops have decreased in price over the years, so will handtops. read jlp's comments on page 3 for more reasons why a handtop like the OQO is leaps and bounds more feature-packed than a PPC. that doesn't mean it's better, better is always just relative to your needs.
So, for me, the 1GHz PC isn't enough power to replace my laptop. While that level of power would be nice for a PDA, the OQO is too big, doesn't have enough battery power, and isn't instant on. Plus, I won't pay more than $650 for a PDA, and that's stretching it. So it can't replace my PDA either. I keep saying - it'll be lots of fun for some people, but it's not going to work for everyone.

It's rumored to be in the 1200-1500 price range, has USB 2.0, and a 30GB hard drive. Best of all, the flipstart is a hinged device, so there is no worry about screen protection.
Yeah - the flipstart is closer to what I would need if I wanted a device like this to replace my PDA - it has instant access to PDA functions.

as for the comments about most people not wanting this device or it not suiting their needs, everyone is under the impression that it's targeted towards end-users, it's not, from what i've read from other CeBit reports anyways, it's being targeted primarily at business professional, hospitals and the like. for whom such a device may be perfectly targeted -- non-clamshell design, pen features, lightweight, slide-out keyboard so it's not intrusive, etc...
Actually, the people writing the article were aware of how it was targeted - I addressed that in my comments. The arguing comes in when someone states "Everyone should get one! It's the perfect device for everybody! You're wrong if you don't agree!". ;) In some situations it *will* be perfect. I am just concerned that those situations are fewer than the OQO crew are expecting. I'm not saying that's definitely true, and I'll be happy to be shown wrong for this particular statement (;)), but it's a concern.

[Kati Compton]

When talking about the high (everything's relative) price of the OQO, Kati seems to ignore the enormous success of the iPod mini
To be precise, the iPod Mini is $249. The OQO, from our indications, will cost ~ $1,800 or $1,900. The iPod Mini is perhaps a "premium", but it's in a totally different price bracket.
Yes. When for a lot of people the price of the OQO approaches (or surpasses) a net month's salary, it makes the OQO much more difficult to purchase than an ipod mini. Now, this argument doesn't matter overmuch if you consider the *actual* target market for the OQO, but it's a good argument against the "everyone should buy one" type of statements, so I felt I should mention it. Oh, and don't forget that more people need/want portable audio than portable computing.

[dh]

What is it with these integrated cameras in PDAs? :roll: Lost sales ahoy for FlipStart! :evil:

I understand that some people can't have cameras because of work, but I love the idea. I just got my i-mate and, I have to say, the integrated camera is one of my favorite parts.

And I think a camera would be even more useful in the OQO.

But I'm allowed to take my device to work, sooo... :wink:
But remember, it's been pointed out many times that lots of companies including HP, Nokia, Sun, Apple etc etc etc do not allow cameras, so for many people a phone or computer without is simply not acceptable. I would say it's a lot more than "some people" that are effected.

It therefore makes no sense for any device aimed at the business market to have an integrated camera. pa1mOne seem to have noticed this and are about to launch a Treo 600 without camera for the business market.

I like the look of the FlipStart (that product needs a new name for sure) but it's no use to me if I can't take it to meetings at my customers offices.

[nosmohtac]

And I think a camera would be even more useful in the OQO.



There's a 1.3MP camera built in to the FlipstartPC (http://www.flipstartpc.com)

[Jonathon Watkins]

And I think a camera would be even more useful in the OQO.



There's a 1.3MP camera built in to the FlipstartPC (http://www.flipstartpc.com)

Yup, as mentioned by Gen-M on page 2 of this thread, which is why we are talking about it now. :wink:

Camera on PDA = Lost sales = Bad idea

The OQO is aimed at the corporation and needs a camera like a cavity in the cranium! :wink:

[nosmohtac]

And I think a camera would be even more useful in the OQO.



There's a 1.3MP camera built in to the FlipstartPC (http://www.flipstartpc.com)

Yup, as mentioned by Gen-M on page 2 of this thread, which is why we are talking about it now. :wink:

Camera on PDA = Lost sales = Bad idea

The OQO is aimed at the corporation and needs a camera like a cavity in the cranium! :wink:

Yup, and I agree with (it was either Janak, or Pony99) who said that companies are going to have to either change their policy on this or ban ALL electronics. There is no way in the world that everyone who would be looking out for these devices would suspect every laptop style computer (whether its ultra-portable or not) to have a camera built in.

I see what your getting at, but it's time to push back. If these companies are worried about stolen secrets and such, they need to be shown that there would be many easier ways for an employee to get them out of the office, than a digital camera.
At the rate we're going it won't matter. If companies want to keep this as a policy, we'll all be forced to turn over our electronics at the doors, because not everyone will know which devices have a camera and which ones are capable of inserting a camera (PDA SDcamera).

I don't have a device with an integrated camera, but that's only because I've been waiting for one that is at least 1.3MP.

[dh]

Yup, and I agree with (it was either Janak, or Pony99) who said that companies are going to have to either change their policy on this or ban ALL electronics. There is no way in the world that everyone who would be looking out for these devices would suspect every laptop style computer (whether its ultra-portable or not) to have a camera built in.

Agree it can be a real pain. I have several customers that I visit where every bag is searched when entering for the specific reason for looking for cameras. At some of these, visitors are not allowed to take cell phones of any kind into the building.

More than once I've forgotten to leave my phone in my car, had to leave it with the security guys, then discover I drove off and left it there. What a pain in the arse!

[jlp]

I'm not impressed by the poor quality of the pictures. They look very unexperimented-amateur-ish: how can we actually compare the units if you place dark devices on a dark background? Then the lack of good lighting makes it even harder. Very amateurish again.
I'll make sure to tell the OQO folks that next time they should bring a white tablecloth and increase the lighting in their meeting room if they want good pictures. :roll: Looks fine on my monitor.

Then many reviewers stack devices and shoot the side and top, even the bottom to better show their thickness, length and connectivity.

I'm very surprised that Suhit, the digital media "expert" reports "From a media perspective, one of the downsides is that there are no flash ports for SD/CF/whatever. Now, even though there is a 20GB drive built in, if I were taking pictures and wanted to transfer them real quick to my OQO, I would not be able to do it." (emphasis added) The "expert" seems to ignore the availability of credit card sized USB all-in-one card readers.
He was surprised it wasn't built-in. Which is what he said.

Kati be honest; half truth doesn't cut it: his next sentence that you hide and which I bold marked stated "if I were taking pictures and wanted to transfer them real quick to my OQO, I would not be able to do it." This is this part I was questioning about :roll: not the first part that I quoted as well. And his statement is wrong anyway you look at it it's not integrated (if it was possible in such a small device I'm positive they would have) but there are solutions so his quote is not true :evil:

Your use of quotes around "expert" is very insulting, as well as your "amaturish" statements.

AFAIK "expert" is not an insult and pictures with poor contrast and poor lighting IS amateurish.

If I had to take the picture (and I'm no expert photographer either) I'd plan in advance to get a good digicam with a good second flash and move my a$$ to find a sheet of paper or two (or any light colored material that could fit the bill) to provide the best of shooting condition as such a setting would permit. But then he's not me; and this is why the pics look amateurish.


When talking about the high (everything's relative) price of the OQO, Kati seems to ignore the enormous success of the iPod mini which reflects that people tend to prefer smaller and lighter devices vs more capable and powerful ones.
The price of the ipod mini is much less than $2K. And I didn't say that *no one* would buy it. Just that most people probably won't pick this over a $1200 laptop. Remember - the people that go to these shows, and the people that visit these forums, tend to have higher technological requirements/desires than the "average" person.

Kati you'll notice I didn't mention a price but a fact. Fact is that the ipod mini is just a little bit less expensive than the regular ipod with 15 GB but yet has only about a quarter of the memory capacity; yet it appeals to thousands and thousands of people, certainly a few hundred thousands this year. They prefer the smaller and lighter, even if less capable, iPod mini to the regular one; that was my point, but you missed it.

I have 2 bad news for you: trraditional notebooks can't fit in a shirt pocket and PPCs don't include a 20 GB HDD, don't run WinXP apps, don't include 256 MB RAM, a Firewire and USB connectors, can't offer full print capabilities, can't drive desktop keyboards, screens, scanners, optical drives/burners, etc. etc.
Well, my pockets wouldn't fit the OQO or the stowaway Bluetooth keyboard. ;) And my purse is even too small. So I have to carry a separate bag anyway. Plus, if I'm traveling, I usually have a carryon for "stuff to do" that fits my laptop regardless.

Of course with tight jeans and blouse even a credit card would hardly find a spot in this attire :roll: We're talking about regular people here :twisted: (NB: this is sarcasm, not insults :wink:)

Again, I'm not saying this is a horrible device - I think it's cute. I'm not saying that no one should use it. I'm saying that I don't think *everyone* will use it.

Did I ever say everybody would use/need it? No so I don't see the point in this your sentence.

But the fact that Jory Bell himself told in OQOPC Yahoo group recently:
&lt;&lt;From: "jorydavidbell" &lt;jbell@o...>
Date: Sat Jun 5, 2004 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: OQO Selects 40 Major Corporate Customer Pilots

OQO will be allocating 50% of its production to individual/consumer
demand.

while major corporations are an important and very aggressive market
segment, tens of thousands of individuals have contacted OQO wanting
to purchase a mobile windows computer.

at OQO, we are committed to supporting the individual as well as the
enterprise.

::jory>>

"tens of thousands" of eager individual customers, again that's without any commercial ads, yet...

Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing.
This depends on the needs of the user. Not everyone is willing to make the same compromises. But unless the device suddenly gets a 1.5GHz processor and at *least* 512 MB RAM, there's no way I could make it my main machine even if I wanted to. So a pocketable XP device is currently not in the cards for me. But a PPC is, as I like having a PDA, and the instant-on is very helpful for looking up contacts and such.

Please, try to remember that everyone doesn't share your needs. It's a nice machine, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have flaws. It's a question of WHICH flaws any one individual can tolerate. For some, perhaps even many, the flaws of the OQO may be minor or of no consequences. For others, they will be a deal-breaker.

Kati, how come do you always sound like I pretend everybody needs an OQO, or that you need/could use one or that it doesn't have flaws :rolleyes: :bangin:

In fact if you'd read me (care-)fully you'd notice I said "Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing."

[jlp]

I'm not impressed by the poor quality of the pictures. They look very unexperimented-amateur-ish: how can we actually compare the units if you place dark devices on a dark background? Then the lack of good lighting makes it even harder. Very amateurish again.
In addition to what Kati said, we spent less than 5 minutes taking those shots. If you think it's so easy, try photographing handheld devices on the spot. It is not, and I have tried many, many times. The one I regret that we didn't take was a "shot in the hand" to give a better idea of scale.

Then many reviewers stack devices and shoot the side and top, even the bottom to better show their thickness, length and connectivity.
Agreed -- and if this was a review, we'd have done so. It was not - it was a quick look during a short meeting.

Sorry Janak I forgot it was done in such a hurry and that probably there was not enough time to think about all the angles one could have taken a shot at these devices. My bad.

The "expert" seems to ignore the availability of credit card sized USB all-in-one card readers.
It's a feature he wants. Note that PDAs have that built-in CF slot, for example, which makes it extremely convenient to view pictures on them. Try dangling a USB reader while walking down the street trying to view pictures.

As I said to Katy, if the "cramming" experts at OQO had found a space to put a flash memory slot, they would've put it there. Obviously enough, with the integration of the full size USB port, albeit v.1.1, there is no reason to make the main device bigger (take a look at the much bigger Sony U50/70 that integrates 2 such slots, yet has no BT, no Firewire). As far as the USB reader that would supposedly dangle from the OQO, any normal person has 2 hands, one each to hold the said devices :roll:.

When talking about the high (everything's relative) price of the OQO, Kati seems to ignore the enormous success of the iPod mini
To be precise, the iPod Mini is $249. The OQO, from our indications, will cost ~ $1,800 or $1,900. The iPod Mini is perhaps a "premium", but it's in a totally different price bracket.

Read my answer to Kati above, looks like you missed the point I talked about a fact not a price.

which reflects that people tend to prefer smaller and lighter devices vs more capable and powerful ones.
If that's the case, they'll prefer PDAs (smaller and lighter) to OQOs (more powerful and capable).

Again!! PPCs are NO option for the tens, probably even hundreds of thousands of people who need much superior (WinXP) capabilities :roll:.

This user behavior amazes me as well, but the iPod mini's success shows a trend that the OQO is surfing on.
Have you held an iPod mini? The reasons it's successful have almost nothing to do with the OQO's target market.

Again I'm not talking about prices or markets but about smaller and lighter devices. And the OQO is even more so since it has so much more capabilities vs PPCs.

For those who insist on a one handed solution, this is highly overrated: I don't know abour your PPC but mine (Axim X5), the iPaq 2210 and the Toshiba e805 and probably most others still require the use of 2 hands for turning it on, pressing a hardware launch button, using the dpad, etc. etc.
Not mine. ;) I carry an i700 Pocket PC phone and can turn it on and dial with one hand. I do it all the time.

Again I didn't say it was not possible I said it is overrated, which it is. My other points are still valid, most of the time you need 2 hands to actuate the device.

Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing.
For you -- but your scenario is not necessarily everyone's. And as I said, paired with the Smartphone, I'd seriously be tempted by the OQO as a mobile computing solution. In fact, if you really read the post, all of us were generally upbeat about it. But thanks to your condescending, rude post, I'm feeling negative about it again. :?

As I just said above to Kati, why do you sound like I said the OQO is for everyone, or for you??

Why people answer point by point besides the facts or quotes?? :roll:

Lack of attention? lack of precision? Lack of time? All of the above?

:bangin:

[JA]

Ive been watching these thread and i need to ask a question- jlp if you know so much why dont you post some examples of reviews youve done? Its so easy to be critical when you dont have the *&^%$ to do it yourself. Put up or shut up i say! How much do you get paid by the good people at oqo hq anyway? The only time you slither out from under your rock is when there is a post that criticises that oqo pos! lol JA

[jlp]

Ive been watching these thread and i need to ask a question- jlp if you know so much why dont you post some examples of reviews youve done? Its so easy to be critical when you dont have the *&^%$ to do it yourself. Put up or shut up i say! How much do you get paid by the good people at oqo hq anyway? The only time you slither out from under your rock is when there is a post that criticises that oqo pos! lol JA

Listen to the guy who knows it all... not. I have neither the time and worse not the material/software and I live in Europe, if you were attentive enough to notice it. That concerns especially the OQO part of your "slander". But I don't take offense at your post it only makes me smile how naive you are/sound :devilboy: :P

Yeah I love the OQO
:multi: :rock on dude!: :way to go: :clap: :drool: :ppclove:
And I'll get one the instant it hits the market or that I can fit one in my budget; but be sure I'll get out of my way for this 8)

And with 341 posts as of this one, I utter more often than just to rebuke the unbelievers :twisted:.

.

[Steven Cedrone]

O.K.! What I want everyone to do, is just calm down! Can we have a discussion without flaming people? I don't want to have to lock this thread...

jlp: Constructive criticisms might better be served if you PM them in the future.

JA: PM sent, I suggest you read it!

Steve

[dh]

I think Kati and the guys did a nice job of getting us their opinion of the OQO. Obviously they didn't have the time to do an in-depth review but they told me a lot of what I want to know.

Personally, I think the OQO is a great idea and I hope the company does well with it. I've been looking for the perfect mobile device for quite a while (Since the Casio BOSS to be precise) and I'm pleased to see that there are exciting new ideas being introduced.

I have not made up my mind as to whether I would prefer a fixed computer with a mobile unit that syncs to it or one device that does both jobs. The OQO and the F!@#start are certainly food for thought. I'm also enjoying Linux so much on my Zaurus, that I'm no longer convinced that I'll be sticking with Windows for my computing in the future so who knows what I'll buy next.

So thanks for the article guys, it's created some interesting discussion that's for sure. It will be nice when there are some review OQOs floating around so we can all find out more.

And jlp, I happen to like the fact that most of the writing here is done by enthusiasts just like me. It seems the three of them had an unexpected opportunity to spend a bit of time with the OQO guys and simply wanted to let all of us have some insight into what they thought. I don't see a thing to complain about.

[JA]

I have neither the time and worse not the material/software and I live in Europe, if you were attentive enough to notice it.

I cant write reviews either because I live in *who cares*! You cant use location as an excuse! Writ a oqo review and sent it to pocketpcthoughts. Lets see how you do-you have pleanty of time it probably wont be released until 2006! :roll:

That concerns especially the OQO part of your "slander". But I don't take offense at your post it only makes me smile how naive you are/sound :devilboy: :P

Naive! Lets do a poll- how many people think you are a paid mouthpiece for oqo. lol

Yeah I love the OQO
:multi: :rock on dude!: :way to go: :clap: :drool: :ppclove:
And I'll get one the instant it hits the market or that I can fit one in my budget; but be sure I'll get out of my way for this 8)

Start saving now! JA

[Steven Cedrone]

...snip...

You have a PM! Read it!!!

Steve

[Kati Compton]

Kati be honest; half truth doesn't cut it: his next sentence that you hide and which I bold marked stated "if I were taking pictures and wanted to transfer them real quick to my OQO, I would not be able to do it." This is this part I was questioning about :roll: not the first part that I quoted as well.
I think finding a USB flash reader, plugging it in, and THEN loading the card might be what kept him from thinking "real quick". While it's certainly *possible*, it's just not as convenient. It won't matter for everyone, but it does for him.

And his statement is wrong anyway you look at it it's not integrated (if it was possible in such a small device I'm positive they would have) but there are solutions so his quote is not true :evil:
It's not wrong for him to say that having a built-in flash slot is something that is important *to him* and the OQO doesn't have it.

If I had to take the picture (and I'm no expert photographer either) I'd plan in advance to get a good digicam with a good second flash and move my a$$ to find a sheet of paper or two (or any light colored material that could fit the bill) to provide the best of shooting condition as such a setting would permit. But then he's not me; and this is why the pics look amateurish.
Unfortunately we had very little time in the OQO booth. We could have set up more professional pictures, but then we wouldn't have had time to play with the device and talk to the people. We got everything we could in the time we could. If you would like to do your own report and point people to that, you are welcome to do so.

The price of the ipod mini is much less than $2K. And I didn't say that *no one* would buy it. Just that most people probably won't pick this over a $1200 laptop. Remember - the people that go to these shows, and the people that visit these forums, tend to have higher technological requirements/desires than the "average" person.

Kati you'll notice I didn't mention a price but a fact. Fact is that the ipod mini is just a little bit less expensive than the regular ipod with 15 GB but yet has only about a quarter of the memory capacity; yet it appeals to thousands and thousands of people, certainly a few hundred thousands this year. They prefer the smaller and lighter, even if less capable, iPod mini to the regular one; that was my point, but you missed it.
But it's not an exact analogy. Many people don't have 15GB of digital music. If someone only HAS 4GB, then why not get the cheaper thing and enjoy the smallness? Plus, here, smallness is really ONLY good. On the OQO the smallness is good for some things but bad for others (ie, using it on an airplane as a laptop replacement).

Again, I'm not saying this is a horrible device - I think it's cute. I'm not saying that no one should use it. I'm saying that I don't think *everyone* will use it.

Did I ever say everybody would use/need it? No so I don't see the point in this your sentence.
You get very riled up when someone says that they don't think it's the perfect solution for everyone, so it's a natural conclusion to draw. Many people have said "I'd really like to see this happen, but it's not the right device for me for X reason", and you have a tendency to miss the "I'd really like to see this happen" and jump down their throats for the "this is why it's not right for me" reason.

In fact if you'd read me (care-)fully you'd notice I said "Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing."
Hmmm. It's possible that an English grammar issue here is changing the meaning of your sentence. To me, this says that you're saying that the OQO is *the* superior solution. Perhaps you meant "one of the better ones"? In that case, I might agree with you that it is one of the best tradeoffs for people that have needs other than my own. ;)

[Kati Compton]

If there's further discussion on this, I may have to split it into an Off-Topic thread, which is why I made this a separate post. But I thought it was worth replying.

Well, my pockets wouldn't fit the OQO or the stowaway Bluetooth keyboard. ;) And my purse is even too small. So I have to carry a separate bag anyway. Plus, if I'm traveling, I usually have a carryon for "stuff to do" that fits my laptop regardless.

Of course with tight jeans and blouse even a credit card would hardly find a spot in this attire :roll: We're talking about regular people here :twisted: (NB: this is sarcasm, not insults :wink:)

Um... Women aren't "regular people"?

[Pony99CA]

The "expert" seems to ignore the availability of credit card sized USB all-in-one card readers.
It's a feature he wants. Note that PDAs have that built-in CF slot, for example, which makes it extremely convenient to view pictures on them. Try dangling a USB reader while walking down the street trying to view pictures.
As I said to Katy, if the "cramming" experts at OQO had found a space to put a flash memory slot, they would've put it there. Obviously enough, with the integration of the full size USB port, albeit v.1.1, there is no reason to make the main device bigger (take a look at the much bigger Sony U50/70 that integrates 2 such slots, yet has no BT, no Firewire). As far as the USB reader that would supposedly dangle from the OQO, any normal person has 2 hands, one each to hold the said devices :roll:.
So let's count. One hand to carry the OQO, one hand to carry the USB reader. Got it. The hard part will be figuring out which appendage to actually use the OQO with if I'm standing.

I won't presume to speak for most people, but I doubt that I'm any good at typing or mousing with my tongue or nose. :twisted:

Seriously, I have an SD Cruzer (the old school version which was essentially an SD card reader) which is rigid and small enough to stick out of a USB port without having to dangle. If multi-format versions of those exist, that might mitigate Suhit's objections.

Sure, USB 1.1 will be slower than most people want, but, not so long ago, USB 1.1 was all we had. The problem is that digital media is getting larger, which is making USB 1.1 look worse. However, USB 1.1 at 12 mbps is still faster than most people's home Internet connections (I'm guessing most people don't have 1 mbps), and people are willing to download tons of 4-5 MB MP3 files over those slower connections.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Um... Women aren't "regular people"?
With enough fiber they are. :lol:

Steve

[jlp]

Kati,

I won't take point by point to correct ^you coz I've spent way too much time on this now; and I see we won't go anywhere.

I'll just say this: Suhit said regarding flash memory cards that it couln't copy them to the OQO and that's plain wrong; I agree it's awckward, I agree it's not comfortable I agree it's not direct, but it's possible. Besides OQO would a) need to put many different slots, thus making the device much bigger, or b) just include a CF slot, but then all the Sony, Fuji, Olympus and the many users with SD cards would need an adapter thus rendering the process even more awckward than the simple USB card reader.

Then Suhit said he "would not be able to do it" and I maintain it's plain wrong. Period. Feel free to reread my posts. I wrote more than enough on it already!! Tho awckward or incomfortable it's possible and a widely known fact.

In fact if you'd read me (care-)fully you'd notice I said "Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing."
Hmmm. It's possible that an English grammar issue here is changing the meaning of your sentence. To me, this says that you're saying that the OQO is *the* superior solution. Perhaps you meant "one of the better ones"? In that case, I might agree with you that it is one of the best tradeoffs for people that have needs other than my own. ;)

Tell you what truth is you seem to have problems with vocabulary: "better compromise" does NOT mean "*the* superior solution"; compromise means it's the most powerful amongst the smallest device; in other words it's not the most powerful in itself, it's not the smallest handheld computer, but, as I just said the most powerful of the smallest. Hope you can appreciate the differences. I can't be more explicit.

[jlp]

If there's further discussion on this, I may have to split it into an Off-Topic thread, which is why I made this a separate post. But I thought it was worth replying.

Well, my pockets wouldn't fit the OQO or the stowaway Bluetooth keyboard. ;) And my purse is even too small. So I have to carry a separate bag anyway. Plus, if I'm traveling, I usually have a carryon for "stuff to do" that fits my laptop regardless.

Of course with tight jeans and blouse even a credit card would hardly find a spot in this attire :roll: We're talking about regular people here :twisted: (NB: this is sarcasm, not insults :wink:)

Um... Women aren't "regular people"?

8O

Kati!! May I have you full, undivided attention this time: I said it was sarcasm :!:

.

[jlp]

Steve,

I have a tiny USB card reader that has a 2" cord that you could hold beneath the OQO both in one hand:

http://www.pqi.com.tw/eng/ourproduct/product/travel%20flash/7in1/m730.jpg

At worst, even if it's dangling it wouldn't hurt either :|


.

[Kati Compton]

I'll just say this: Suhit said regarding flash memory cards that it couln't copy them to the OQO and that's plain wrong;
No, he said he couldn't do it *quickly*.

In fact if you'd read me (care-)fully you'd notice I said "Life is made of multiple compromises in every aspect, and the OQO offers the better ones in pocketable computing."
Hmmm. It's possible that an English grammar issue here is changing the meaning of your sentence. To me, this says that you're saying that the OQO is *the* superior solution. Perhaps you meant "one of the better ones"? In that case, I might agree with you that it is one of the best tradeoffs for people that have needs other than my own. ;)

Tell you what truth is you seem to have problems with vocabulary: "better compromise" does NOT mean "*the* superior solution"; compromise means it's the most powerful amongst the smallest device; in other words it's not the most powerful in itself, it's not the smallest handheld computer, but, as I just said the most powerful of the smallest. Hope you can appreciate the differences. I can't be more explicit.
Not true. "the better compromise" means one thing, while "one of the better compromises" means something else. I'd agree that the OQO is "one of the better compromises", but not "the better compromise".

[Kati Compton]

Of course with tight jeans and blouse even a credit card would hardly find a spot in this attire :roll: We're talking about regular people here :twisted: (NB: this is sarcasm, not insults :wink:)

Um... Women aren't "regular people"?

8O

Kati!! May I have you full, undivided attention this time: I said it was sarcasm :!:
I realize that, although it wasn't funny.

But the fact that it's sarcasm doesn't change the fact that it's a valid issue - the unit is just not pocketable in most women's clothing. Of course, neither are most PDAs. ;)

[ctmagnus]

the unit is just not pocketable in most women's clothing. Of course, neither are most PDAs. ;)

I'd say the OQO is not pocketable in my clothing, either, and I quite often have my iPaq 5550 in my hip pocket.

[Gen-M]

the unit is just not pocketable in most women's clothing. Of course, neither are most PDAs. ;)

I'd say the OQO is not pocketable in my clothing, either, and I quite often have my iPaq 5550 in my hip pocket.

This device almost requires an eVest http://www.scottevest.com/ or an eHolster http://www.eholster.com for women or men

[Warwick]

JLP I think the thing your missing here is that this site is called Pocket PC "Thoughts", and that the reviews posted at the start were the opinions of the reviewers after they saw a new device in a rather short time and posted what they thought of it.

Personaly to me it says that we are going to see smaller, more powerful real PCs. I am hoping that this will lead to instant on Pocket PC's that run a version of windows XP or better, have battery life comparable to current PPC's, and "WILL" be desktop replacements, but at reasonable prices. This is the first version to hit the shelves (lets hope it does) its not going to be perfect, but it looks better than the first time I saw a casio a10 (i think it was) with CE V1. I cant afford this one, nor would I buy it, Ill wait for version 3, but I do love the idea of it.

I understand your getting your opinion out, but take a chill pill man. I appreciate the opinions of the review team and thank them for sharing the experience. Ill take what I want from what they said, and lok forward to more info about it from them.

[Kacey Green]

Um... Women aren't "regular people"?
With enough fiber they are. :lol:

Steve

I'll have to thank you for that one Steve/pony :rotfl: :rofl:
out of the last four pages that was what made me continue through the next page (I was about to close the browser because it looked like one of our infamous arguments [ja uppsetting people and all] "the whole gang is back in town")

[Kacey Green]

the unit is just not pocketable in most women's clothing. Of course, neither are most PDAs. ;)

I'd say the OQO is not pocketable in my clothing, either, and I quite often have my iPaq 5550 in my hip pocket.

This device almost requires an eVest http://www.scottevest.com/ or an eHolster http://www.eholster.com for women or men
Where's brad?

[Pat Logsdon]

Of course with tight jeans and blouse even a credit card would hardly find a spot in this attire :roll: We're talking about regular people here :twisted: (NB: this is sarcasm, not insults :wink:)Um... Women aren't "regular people"?Kati!! May I have you full, undivided attention this time: I said it was sarcasm :!:
Just because you say it's sarcasm doesn't mean it's not insulting or unworthy of a rebuttal.

By your logic, I'm free to call you a condescending jerk as long as I call it "sarcasm" instead of an insult. Oh, and here's a :wink: so you know I'm "kidding".

:roll:

Back on topic, the OQO is four times the cost of a typical Pocket PC, and has no portable storage, making it useless for many of the things that make Pocket PCs attractive. Sorry, but having to carry around a card reader to make a device useful is just silly.

As interesting as it is, I think this is a dead-end device.

[ctmagnus]

I'd say the OQO is not pocketable in my clothing, either, and I quite often have my iPaq 5550 in my hip pocket.

This device almost requires an eVest http://www.scottevest.com/ or an eHolster http://www.eholster.com for women or men
Where's brad?

Dunno, but surely one of my three eVests would suffice?

:werenotworthy:

[Kacey Green]

I'll have to ad magnus to the list of known e-vest wearers :wink:

[vaylen]

First let me say I appreciate what the 3 folks who previewed this device did. They helped dispell the feeling that the OQO was vaporware more than a token appearance on "24" could.

But I think jlp was spot-on when he compared this device to the iPod mini. I remember when the mini was announced on slashdot. The complaints were almost universally "it's way too expensive since for only $50 more you can get 11 more megabytes". These people missed the point and are the ones who are dumbfounded that the iPod is selling so fast that you can't get one for weeks (I got mine the first day). This is because they kept comparing it to FLASH players. The iPod mini may have been the size of a flash player, but make no mistake, it was the first HD player that was as portable as a flash player. Now I'm not saying the OQO will hit that niche because quite frankly there isn't that much demand for handtop PC's compared to portable music players. But what I think eveyone keeps missing here is that the OQO isn't designed to replace a Palm or PPC as much as it's designed to replace a laptop. It's priced like a laptop and it does most everything a laptop does. If you don't like the keyboard and don't want to carry a foldable USB keyboard then lug a laptop around and see if you feel differently.

For myself, I am looking for a device I can run Windows XP software on and surf the web while in my car or on the road. I can't do this with a 320x240 PPC (most of which don't include bluetooth anyway). I need a device that has at least a VGA display and bluetooth. The Sony U70 has this (and I could even get it at a good discount because I work for Sony) but it's just too damn big. The OQO is the smallest Windows XP PC that is going to come out for quite a while. It is pocketable (barely) and 2-6 hours is enough use for one day.

I applaud the preview of this device (let's hope that OQO decided not to let the LCD stay soft since they use a stylus with it). These are exactly the kinds of things that need to be brought to their attention BEFORE they begin mass producing them. While most people who use a PPC and Windows CE won't buy one, I think that anyone who is looking to drop $1800 on a Windows XP laptop should consider if they wouldn't rather have one which is WAY more portable.

peace,
out

[Jonathon Watkins]

I applaud the preview of this device (let's hope that OQO decided not to let the LCD stay soft since they use a stylus with it). These are exactly the kinds of things that need to be brought to their attention BEFORE they begin mass producing them. While most people who use a PPC and Windows CE won't buy one, I think that anyone who is looking to drop $1800 on a Windows XP laptop should consider if they wouldn't rather have one which is WAY more portable.

Welcome Vaylen and cheers for your thoughtful first post. 8)

I appreciated Janak, Kati and Suhit taking the time to share their thought, pictures and impressions of the CeBit show and the OQO. As a laptop replacement, the OQO does indeed looks promising, once the little wrinkles are sorted out. :wink:

[jlp]

the unit is just not pocketable in most women's clothing. Of course, neither are most PDAs. ;)

I'd say the OQO is not pocketable in my clothing, either, and I quite often have my iPaq 5550 in my hip pocket.

The OQO is about the size of your ipaq or my Axim X5, etc. so wherever your ipaq fits, so the OQO IS pocketable in your clothing.

[Jonathon Watkins]

the unit is just not pocketable in most women's clothing. Of course, neither are most PDAs. ;)

I'd say the OQO is not pocketable in my clothing, either, and I quite often have my iPaq 5550 in my hip pocket.

The OQO is about the size of your ipaq of my Axim X5, etc. so wherever your ipaq fits, so the OQO IS pocketable in your clothing.

Not a chance JLP. :wink: As Kati said, the OQO is
4.9"x3.4"x.9" = 16.66 sq. inches on the face, 15 cu inches volume
The (large by PDA stanadards) Toshiba e800 is
5.3"x3.0"x.6" = 15.9 sq. inches on the face, 9.54 cu inches volume.

The OQO is MUCH bigger than an X5 or Ipaq.

[jlp]

As far as price go, for every device that pioneer a new category you pay a premium price. Color TV, VCRs, desktop computers, CD & CD-ROM players, etc.

I remember one of the first laptop computers, the Data General One's price was around $7,000. My first CD-ROM drive was $1,000 and only 2x speed. The first IBM PC was about $7,000 too around here and my first PC $3,000.

With mass production and competitions from leading computer manufacturers, uPC prices will fall to below $1,000 pretty soon.

Which bring me back to my 2 years old prediction that OQO type computers will kill PDAs as we know them now. Who would buy in 1-2 years a PDA for an average of $500 with very little memory, no HDD a tiny 240x320 screen, no printing capabilities, no WinXP cpabilities, etc.?

Of course in 1-2 years PPCs will evolve a bit: 128 MB RAM might be average (but with only around 64 MB of program memory and no paging memory), the ability to just run 5-6 apps at a time, etc.

As someone here recently said PCs will shrink down to PDA size while PDAs will never grow to become fully capable PCs, they can't WinXP will never run on XScale, it's tooooo sloooooooooow.

So as I said elswere, in 2 years, 3 years max, all that will be left in the PDA arena will be $99 limited PalmOS devices (if Palm survives that long), $9.99 basic electronic organizers and uPCs from OQO, Flipstart, Sony, Toshiba, NEC, IBM, Dell, HP, etc.

Tho there might be a merket for $300-500 PPCs, manufacturers are not crazy, MS is not crazy, they'll follow Sony and leave the PDA market coz they make more money selling a $1000-1500+ uPC than a $300-500 PPC, especially Microsoft. I believe this is one of the few reasons why MS has done nothing to enhance core PPC apps like P.Word/Excel, etc. in 4 long computer years all the while desktop versions have seen 2 major new versions. I bet MS never recouped any investment they made in WinCE!!

[dh]

Tho there might be a merket for $300-500 PPCs, manufacturers are not crazy, MS is not crazy, they'll follow Sony and leave the PDA market coz they make more money selling a $1000-1500+ uPC than a $300-500 PPC, especially Microsoft. I believe this is one of the few reasons why MS has done nothing to enhance core PPC apps like P.Word/Excel, etc. in 4 long computer years all the while desktop versions have seen 2 major new versions. I bet MS never recouped any investment they made in WinCE!!
I do agree with you on some of this. PDAs are certainly not a good way for OS companies to make money, they are still a small market and the cost per license isn't going to make a fortune for anyone. MS would far rather everyone bought XP devices, licenses cost more and there's the opportunity to sell MS Office too. With phones, quantities are much higher, hence the focus there.

I disagree with you on the built in apps in PPC. To me, Microsoft should provide a good stable OS and let third party companies provide the applications, MS too if they want. I want the choice of what PIM to use and what Office apps. Office doesn't come free with Windows, why should it with WM? If MS made included full versions in the OS all the developers would be out of business. It's the imaginative developers that have made PPC a success.

[Kacey Green]

As far as price go, for every device that pioneer a new category you pay a premium price. Color TV, VCRs, desktop computers, CD & CD-ROM players, etc.

I remember one of the first laptop computers, the Data General One's price was around $7,000. My first CD-ROM drive was $1,000 and only 2x speed. The first IBM PC was about $7,000 too around here and my first PC $3,000.

With mass production and competitions from leading computer manufacturers, uPC prices will fall to below $1,000 pretty soon.

Which bring me back to my 2 years old prediction that OQO type computers will kill PDAs as we know them now. Who would buy in 1-2 years a PDA for an average of $500 with very little memory, no HDD a tiny 240x320 screen, no printing capabilities, no WinXP cpabilities, etc.?

Of course in 1-2 years PPCs will evolve a bit: 128 MB RAM might be average (but with only around 64 MB of program memory and no paging memory), the ability to just run 5-6 apps at a time, etc.

As someone here recently said PCs will shrink down to PDA size while PDAs will never grow to become fully capable PCs, they can't WinXP will never run on XScale, it's tooooo sloooooooooow.

So as I said elswere, in 2 years, 3 years max, all that will be left in the PDA arena will be $99 limited PalmOS devices (if Palm survives that long), $9.99 basic electronic organizers and uPCs from OQO, Flipstart, Sony, Toshiba, NEC, IBM, Dell, HP, etc.

Tho there might be a merket for $300-500 PPCs, manufacturers are not crazy, MS is not crazy, they'll follow Sony and leave the PDA market coz they make more money selling a $1000-1500+ uPC than a $300-500 PPC, especially Microsoft. I believe this is one of the few reasons why MS has done nothing to enhance core PPC apps like P.Word/Excel, etc. in 4 long computer years all the while desktop versions have seen 2 major new versions. I bet MS never recouped any investment they made in WinCE!!
Don't forget the original iPAQ h63xx

[Janak Parekh]

But I think jlp was spot-on when he compared this device to the iPod mini.
You may find the OQO a perfect replacement for your laptop, but let me say once and for all that this analogy does NOT work.

1. The iPod vs. iPod Mini debate is over about $50, i.e., most Slashdotters said "if this was about $50 cheaper it'd be perfect". Compare that to about a $1,400 difference, and you're talking about orders of magnitude. You're not going to have a random person walk up and drop that much money. The iPod Mini still fits in the price point where it can be construed as a impulse buy.

2. The only fundamental difference between a flash player, the iPod Mini, and the iPod is the capacity and physical size (UI differences notwithstanding). The fundamental difference between a PDA and the OQO is much more substantial. I already mentioned one -- the usability metrics are strikingly different. A handheld XP unit is not going to have the immediacy or simple UI that a Pocket Outlook applet provides.

As for the argument that this unit will go down in price in a few years - sure, that's possible - and perhaps future desktop UIs will provide usability enhancements that will allow better handheld formfactor use. I'm not denying that at all, and neither is no one else. Our thoughts were primarily based on the Model 01, and I can tell you that we will not see it hit the $1,000 barrier in the immediate future. I think that no one here is under the illusion that Pocket PCs are guaranteed to exist in their existing form factor for the next 10-20 years...

--janak

[jlp]

the unit is just not pocketable in most women's clothing. Of course, neither are most PDAs. ;)

I'd say the OQO is not pocketable in my clothing, either, and I quite often have my iPaq 5550 in my hip pocket.

The OQO is about the size of your ipaq of my Axim X5, etc. so wherever your ipaq fits, so the OQO IS pocketable in your clothing.

Not a chance JLP. :wink: As Kati said, the OQO is
4.9"x3.4"x.9" = 16.66 sq. inches on the face, 15 cu inches volume
The (large by PDA stanadards) Toshiba e800 is
5.3"x3.0"x.6" = 15.9 sq. inches on the face, 9.54 cu inches volume.

The OQO is MUCH bigger than an X5 or Ipaq.

Jon you quote OQO and e805 measurements and conclude that the OQO is bigger than the ipaq and Axim X5? :eek:

Have you been smoking the carpet or drinking too much ? :roll: :drinking:

.

[jlp]

WARNING:

I thought it was funny for a while to read your comments, but following lame comments and lack of concentration, etc. from many people here, I WILL NOT BOTHER TO COME BACK. I'm cancelling receiving update emails to this page !!! :evil:

So don't even bother answering me anymore... you'll just waste your time.

0X

.

[Kacey Green]

the unit is just not pocketable in most women's clothing. Of course, neither are most PDAs. ;)

I'd say the OQO is not pocketable in my clothing, either, and I quite often have my iPaq 5550 in my hip pocket.

The OQO is about the size of your ipaq of my Axim X5, etc. so wherever your ipaq fits, so the OQO IS pocketable in your clothing.

Not a chance JLP. :wink: As Kati said, the OQO is
4.9"x3.4"x.9" = 16.66 sq. inches on the face, 15 cu inches volume
The (large by PDA stanadards) Toshiba e800 is
5.3"x3.0"x.6" = 15.9 sq. inches on the face, 9.54 cu inches volume.

The OQO is MUCH bigger than an X5 or Ipaq.

Jon you quote OQO and e805 measurements and conclude that the OQO is bigger than the ipaq and Axim X5? :eek:

Have you been smoking the carpet or drinking too much ? :roll: :drinking:

.

look at the last two nubers in each line they are bigger for the OQO, sorry to see you go jlp

[Kati Compton]

Not a chance JLP. :wink: As Kati said, the OQO is
4.9"x3.4"x.9" = 16.66 sq. inches on the face, 15 cu inches volume
The (large by PDA stanadards) Toshiba e800 is
5.3"x3.0"x.6" = 15.9 sq. inches on the face, 9.54 cu inches volume.

The OQO is MUCH bigger than an X5 or Ipaq.

Jon you quote OQO and e805 measurements and conclude that the OQO is bigger than the ipaq and Axim X5? :eek:


Axim X5 = 5.04" x 3.21" x .71" = 16.18 sq inches on the face, 11.49 cu inches volume, but actually smaller because of the way it's tapered.
Ipaq 5550 = 5.43" x 3.3" x .63" = 17.92 sq inches on the face (yes, bigger than OQO), but 11.29 cu inches volume (smaller than the OQO).
Ipaq 4350 = 5.4" x 2.9" x .6" = 15.66 sq inches on the face, 9.4 cu inches volume.

By volume the OQO is the biggest of all of these, though face area is a bit smaller than the 5550.

[Kacey Green]

thanks for clarifying that kati
for the record, that is what I meant by last two nubers, Face and Volume

[Pony99CA]

As interesting as it is, I think this is a dead-end device.
A dead-end device? Oh, come on. "Dead-end" to me means that you don't think the handheld PC concept will be viable in the long term. I hope that's not what you meant.

While it's not perfect by any means, I think it will be at least fairly popular. There will always be geeks with too much money to buy them. :-D

As was said earlier, the device will evolve and the price will come down. Thanks to improved miniaturization, it will probably have a USB 2.0 connection and at least an SD (or miniSD) slot in the not-too-distant future.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Don't forget the original iPAQ h63xx
The iPAQ 6300 line hasn't even been officially announced.

If you meant the iPAQ 3600 line, I don't believe the original line was very expensive. The popularity and scarcity of them caused people to pay above list price for a while (sometimes a lot above list), but they weren't priced that badly for the time.

Steve

[Kacey Green]

my goodness I'm go'in crazy, :oops: yes thought I was typing 36xx (dyslexic moment) and no I wasn't mistaken it cost ~$600-700 depending on your retailer and much more if you bought from an enthusiast

I know top of the line PPCs can still run you that much but they are usually well within' the $500ish and under category

[Pony99CA]

yes thought I was typing 36xx (dyslexic moment) and no I wasn't mistaken it cost ~$600-700 depending on your retailer and much more if you bought from an enthusiast

I know top of the line PPCs can still run you that much but they are usually well within' the $500ish and under category
I did a search on reviews of the iPAQ 3630, and the list price was quoted as about $500. Here's are two from Ars Technica (http://www.ars-technica.com/reviews/4q00/ipaq36x0/ipaq36x0-1.html) and C|Net Asia (http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/handhelds/0,39001708,10000474p,00.htm) that put the price in that range.

What retailers charged is another issue -- they may have been overcharging based on demand. The important number for this discussion is the list price from Compaq. Does anybody remember what the original iPAQ cost? And how did the price compare with other Pocket PCs at the time?

Steve

[Gen-M]

yes thought I was typing 36xx (dyslexic moment) and no I wasn't mistaken it cost ~$600-700 depending on your retailer and much more if you bought from an enthusiast
I paid $500 at Sears for my first iPaq 3650 in November, 2000. And then another $500 or more for accessories :lol: .

[Ed Hansberry]

yes thought I was typing 36xx (dyslexic moment) and no I wasn't mistaken it cost ~$600-700 depending on your retailer and much more if you bought from an enthusiast
I paid $500 at Sears for my first iPaq 3650 in November, 2000. And then another $500 or more for accessories :lol: .
I clearly remember. $499 was list, which put it at $100 cheaper than the $599 Casio E-115 and $599 HP 548. The 3650 + the CF sleeve was still cheaper than the Casio or HP, and waaaaaay cooler. :D

[Pat Logsdon]

As interesting as it is, I think this is a dead-end device.
A dead-end device? Oh, come on. "Dead-end" to me means that you don't think the handheld PC concept will be viable in the long term. I hope that's not what you meant.
You're right, it's not. :mrgreen: I think the OQO and anything like it is too early. I'd like for it to work, but I just don't think the hardware is there yet. For what it's worth, I think the FlipStart is a better hardware design, although I'd like to see them lose the camera in favor of removable flash memory.

[gry]

Did any of you notice how long the wake from suspend time was?

My Toshiba tablet wakes up in .5-1.5 seconds running XP Tablet edition, so I'm hoping for this quick wakeup time.

As for battery and power, does the OQO have a "normal" power jack that can be hacked or power augmented using an external power supply velcroed to it like the Valence 130-289000 N-Charge Power System:
http://www.provantage.com/buy-22082203-valence-technology-n-charge-power-systems-shopping.htm

I have one for my IBM Thinpad X31 and it adds an additional 9 hours to my X31. I keep it in my X31 bag.

I like the small form factor, and since I'm a fan of all electronic things tiny, tablets, and PDAs, these uPCs (Sony U50,/U70, FS, and OQO) seem to be my ultimate mobile devices. The price doesn't bother me.

Thanks for the review! Don't waste cycles on negativity.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Not a chance JLP. :wink: As Kati said, the OQO is
4.9"x3.4"x.9" = 16.66 sq. inches on the face, 15 cu inches volume
The (large by PDA stanadards) Toshiba e800 is
5.3"x3.0"x.6" = 15.9 sq. inches on the face, 9.54 cu inches volume.

The OQO is MUCH bigger than an X5 or Ipaq.

Jon you quote OQO and e805 measurements and conclude that the OQO is bigger than the ipaq and Axim X5? :eek:

Have you been smoking the carpet or drinking too much ? :roll: :drinking:

Nope. The e805 is larger than the X5 and most (all?) iPaqs. Ergo, if the OQO is larger than the e805 (which is it), then it is also larger than the X5 and iPaqs.

Size does matter........

[Kati Compton]

Did any of you notice how long the wake from suspend time was?
Um... When we tried to test that, the OQO device crashed. :P Though I'm not sure - it might have been on the unit that they said wasn't working right. It was a really quick visit, so it's hard to get everything in and well documented.

[Jonathon Watkins]

It was a really quick visit, so it's hard to get everything in and well documented.

Could have fooled us. :wink: For a 'quick' visit, that's a lot of info you posted. :wink:

[gry]

Thanks Kati.

Any recollection on the power port? Was is a normal jack?

I can't locate any information on the OQO power requirements.

[Kati Compton]

Thanks Kati.

Any recollection on the power port? Was is a normal jack?

I can't locate any information on the OQO power requirements.

If you look at this picture: http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/photo06.html

it's the port all the way at left. Two (or is that five? Hard to see...) pins, so doesn't seem to be a typical PDA/laptop power port.

[Gen-M]

Katie - did you see the DC power port on the Docking Cable? was that any different?

[Kati Compton]

Katie - did you see the DC power port on the Docking Cable? was that any different?
I did not see it, I was looking at the USB connectors. I had wanted to get a picture, but there wasn't time, and we wanted to focus on trying to get as many pics of the device itself as we could. :(

[jlp]

Thanks Kati.

Any recollection on the power port? Was is a normal jack?

I can't locate any information on the OQO power requirements.

If you look at this picture: http://www.oqo.com/hardware/photos/photo06.html

it's the port all the way at left. Two (or is that five? Hard to see...) pins, so doesn't seem to be a typical PDA/laptop power port.

It's five!! (clic here) (http://www.oqo.com/press/PC_065.jpg); I wonder what's the seemingly connector just left of the scroll wheel.

All the large press images are available directly here!! (http://www.oqo.com/press/)

.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Cheers for the link to the images JLP. That certainly clears up any lingering questions about connections. :lol:

[Gen-M]

I wonder what's the seemingly connector just left of the scroll wheel.

Maybe the 802.11B external antenna conector?

[jlp]

Couldn't resist reading possibly more information about my next pocket PC.

It all started with me considering getting the Archos Gmini HDD MP3 player. To have a better feeling of its tiny size I decided to draw its size on paper, cut it out and glue it on a few pieces of cardboard to simulate the thickness.

Then I thought about doing the same for the OQO and guess what: I realized it's virtually the same size as my Axim X5 as I've said before, only the thickness is only 4 tiny mm thicker.

Kati had a vocabulary problem, now Jonathon has one too.

May I suggest you, Jonathon, to read your definition dictionary at "much" (the adjective you used in conjunction with "bigger" to compare the size of the OQO and the X5) and also please look up "slightly" and appreciate the difference in meaning.

And yes, the OQO is only slightly bigger than the X5.

Now if you were to compare the OQO (or the X5) with the new Sony Vaio U50/70, I agree you could call the latter "much bigger"; same thing compared with, say, any Newton MessagePad. All these are indeed much bigger than the OQO (or an X5 for that matter), but not compared to the X5, sorry. The OQO's only slightly bigger than the X5, so both are virtually the same size.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Kati had a vocabulary problem, now Jonathon has one too.

May I suggest you, Jonathon, to read your definition dictionary at "much" (the adjective you used in conjunction with "bigger" to compare the size of the OQO and the X5) and also please look up "slightly" and appreciate the difference in meaning.

Mon Ami, the word "Much" is defined in the WordNet dictionary as follows: "Much - (qualifier used with mass nouns) great in quantity or degree or extant."

The OQO is almost 50% larger than the X5 in terms of volume. That justifies the use of the work "much" to me. :wink:

But, it is an individual thing of course. What is too large for one person, may be too small for another.

(And yes I had spotted and corrected you name before you mentioned it :wink: ).

[Gen-M]

Please, guys, stop beating dead horses. It is either too big or not.
And that is an individual's value judgement.

[Kati Compton]

Yep - unfortunately this thread has become trashed beyond recognition. I've split off some of the more recent argumentative posts to the HOFS here: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28831

Thread locked.