some new members doesnt do searching, just jump in

[Kowalski]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28604

see this subject. this is a new member. with the first post he breaks a golden rule: search.
most people are too lazy and find directly asking easier than searching.
Jason, you made a guideline for this forum 2 years ago which was short and simple. You can put that where new members sign in so this can prevent us from topics like this?

[Pat Logsdon]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28604see this subject. this is a new member. with the first post he breaks a golden rule: search.
I don't think that's a universal golden rule. I don't mind it at all when people ask questions. Generally speaking, if one person has a question, someone else will as well, and bringing it up as a current topic frequently spurs additional conversation. For example, the thread you're referring to mentioned the fact that you can get aluminum grips from PocketPCTechs. If you weren't here several months ago when those came out, you'd have no idea that they were even an option. That's the kind of thing that makes this community so great, in my opinion. That and the fact that people can ask questions without getting yelled at. :mrgreen:

Jason, you made a guideline for this forum 2 years ago which was short and simple. You can put that where new members sign in so this can prevent us from topics like this?
I don't recall that guideline, but I have noticed the tagline Jason has attached to every one of his posts: "Have a question? Ask it in the forums!". :wink:

As far as I'm concerned, it's the obligation of those who are annoyed by repeated questions to ignore them, and it's the obligation of those who aren't annoyed to answer them. That way, everyone's happy. :mrgreen: Bottom line - we were all newbies at one point.

[shawnc]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28604

most people are too lazy and find directly asking easier than searching.


This is way too harsh. Lighten up! It always amazes me when members NOT named Jason, Pat, Janak, Kati, etc. try to impose their standards on the community.

He's a new member. Let's welcome him and gently nudge him in the right direction. Not beat him over the head for his inexperience/enthusiasm.

[nosmohtac]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28604

see this subject. this is a new member. with the first post he breaks a golden rule: search.
most people are too lazy and find directly asking easier than searching.


I'm not a newbie, and although I use search quite often, it is far from perfect. Depending on how you word your search string, you can end up with 100's of search results that have nothing to do with your question.

I agree with Pat. It's nice to see the same questions pop up now and again and have them revisited. One of the most common questions is "What are your "must have" apps?". This changes as time goes on and new programs are introduced. Some of my "must have" programs are different today than they were 3 years ago.
I don't mind answering these questions again and again, and the fact that many others are willing to do the same is one of the main reasons that I subscribe to this site.

[Don't Panic!]

I've been around for a while and as long as the post doesn't mention "The Best.." or "Must Have Programs" I love newbie questions. 0X

Don't Panic!
Bobby

What's your Star Wars name? Nobody's asked that in awhile so I've forgetten the link to find out. :(

[JvanEkris]

Problem is that questions get asked again and again and again, which annoys people to the extreme when they visit daily and get about 20% identical questions. Although newbees have the right to ask questions, the people answering them should not get irritated by the 10.000th question about localizing PocketPC for the dutch market.

We have fought it very hard on our board (250 active threads a day, about 30.000 active members with a 130 new members each day) to make people search. It really is a daily struggle. Especially newbees do not search. As admin i try using to find the answer with the exact same wordings they have used. In 99% of the cases the answer is in the first 10 search results. When members apply they are told that they are expected to "search before they post". A lot of them do, but also about ten a day don't.

This requires a lot of effort of our staff. Not only by identifying threads of people that do not search, but also by merging threads that are about the same topic (and adding a synopsis on the end), writing FAQ's about topics, etc..This does help however. The search function works a lot better (FAQ's typically ending up in the top-ten of searches, whatever wordings you use). Lucky for ous, older members help us out by e-mailing duplicate threads as well:), they see the value of a clean forum as well.

It must say it is effective. The search function works great. I see "old threads" come back up from the archives again. I see people ask more to-the-point questions. Downside is that some people get attacked for asking questions that are almost (but not entirely) identical to other things. Some people lose sight on subjects that are 600 posts long that consisted of 18 threads (i.e. 17 people did not search). Although a synopsis in the end helps it scares people. But by doing so, really new topics are found relatively easily and people are not annoyed by the 100.000th how-to-install-TomTom-in-a-car topic....

Jaap

[Kowalski]

jvanekris explained the situation more clearly.
today i read more than 5-6 topics which the new members ask and the answer is lied in the first 10 results when you make a simple search.
a normal visit to ppct forums conts me about half an hour and i do this usually two times a day...
It always amazes me when members NOT named Jason, Pat, Janak, Kati, etc. try to impose their standards on the community.

i am just a normal member and i have the right to suggest something. whats the wrong with this? in the end them members named jason pat... makes the rules
lastly i dont want to offend anybody, this was just an example

and how about this:http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28625

[shawnc]

lastly i dont want to offend anybody, this was just an example

Very difficult to call someone lazy and NOT be offensive.

[Steven Cedrone]

9 times out of 10, you can tell what the question is before you read it. IMHO, if you really don't want to answer the duplicate questions that are asked by "newbies", you can just ignore them. There are plenty here that will answer them! As far as the search feature goes: unfortunately, unless you have been here for quite awhile (and are aware of it's "idiosyncrasies" :wink: ), it can return some "strange" results. My advice to those that do answer these posts is, answer the question and "gently" remind them to try to practice using the search...

Steve

It always amazes me when members NOT named Jason, Pat, Janak, Kati, etc. try to impose their standards on the community.

So now I'm an "etc". I am depressed... :(

[Darius Wey]

9 times out of 10, you can tell what the question is before you read it. IMHO, if you really don't want to answer the duplicate questions that are asked by "newbies", you can just ignore them. There are plenty here that will answer them! As far as the search feature goes: unfortunately, unless you have been here for quite awhile (and are aware of it's "idiosyncrasies" ), it can return some "strange" results. My advice to those that do answer these posts is, answer the question and "gently" remind them to try to practice using the search...

I agree...if you have issues with something you see on the net, simply ignore it.

So now I'm an "etc". I am depressed...

Haha...perhaps you should PM "shawnc" to kindly use the "edit" function on that respective post :wink: It's not nice to be excluded... :p hehe.

[shawnc]

It always amazes me when members NOT named Jason, Pat, Janak, Kati, etc. try to impose their standards on the community.

So now I'm an "etc". I am depressed... :(

Sorry Steve. You are WAY to helpful to be relegated to "etc" status :lol: !

[tanalasta]

Sometimes it's too difficult to search for a topic (e.g. specific bugs in activesync) because of the huge numbers of hits it will generate.

I'm usually happy to answer repetitive posts (saves me having to do the search myself and then post the "link"). Very little gets achieved by flaming a newbie to do a search without posting an answer. However, a suggestion would be to do a "sticky" thread titled Please read before posting / FAQ on the top of each forum. Hopefully enthusiastic newbies might read those tips before posting :P One can only hope...

[Kati Compton]

However, a suggestion would be to do a "sticky" thread titled Please read before posting / FAQ on the top of each forum. Hopefully enthusiastic newbies might read those tips before posting :P One can only hope...
We would, but unfortunately the "sticky" feature is currently broken.

[Jacob]

Sometimes it's too difficult to search for a topic (e.g. specific bugs in activesync) because of the huge numbers of hits it will generate.


That's exactly the problem I've had with searches.

One sideeffect of this forum being so good and responsive is that you get a faster response asking a repetetive question than searching through 100+ threads for your answer... is that a bad thing?

[nosmohtac]

Sometimes it's too difficult to search for a topic (e.g. specific bugs in activesync) because of the huge numbers of hits it will generate.


That's exactly the problem I've had with searches.

One sideeffect of this forum being so good and responsive is that you get a faster response asking a repetetive question than searching through 100+ threads for your answer... is that a bad thing?

I don't see it as a bad thing. Like others have said, if this irritates you, don't view the thread, skip it. The only thing that I can see as a negative here, is a larger pool of threads for the search engine to sift through, and more server space being used. Maybe a FAQ sticky post at the top of each thread wouldn't be a bad idea, but I don't have any problem with the way things are around here.

[Kacey Green]

We hav a FAQ thread here, why don't we find someone with time to contribute to it, and bring back the FAQ from getting dusty.

[Janak Parekh]

We hav a FAQ thread here, why don't we find someone with time to contribute to it, and bring back the FAQ from getting dusty.
The problem is there's a better way of building a FAQ. It's on the list of improvements to be made to the site. Once that's done, hopefully it'll render part of this complaint moot. 8)

--janak

[Jon Westfall]

However, a suggestion would be to do a "sticky" thread titled Please read before posting / FAQ on the top of each forum. Hopefully enthusiastic newbies might read those tips before posting :P One can only hope...
We would, but unfortunately the "sticky" feature is currently broken.

That's awesome. Not that a feature is broken - but ... well... that a feature is broken. Now I don't feel like i'm the only one who has gremlins in code that I just don't feel like fixing due to complexities with my other modifications.

And for the record - i never really liked stickies. I think a button at the top simply entiled "Please Read Before Posting" would be a nice addition.

[maximus]

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28604

see this subject. this is a new member. with the first post he breaks a golden rule: search.
most people are too lazy and find directly asking easier than searching.
Jason, you made a guideline for this forum 2 years ago which was short and simple. You can put that where new members sign in so this can prevent us from topics like this?

Hmm ... I was reading this book "How to raise effective kids". And the most important thing that I learned from that book is that we should not give too much regulations to our kids. Excessive regulations hampers the development of their brain. Instead of imposing too many nitty-gritty regulations, we should lead by example.

As for myself, if new member wont do the search .. lets welcome them to the community anyway. Afterall, there are plenty of us who are willing to answer repetitive questions from these new-guys-on-the-block, right ? I personally dont mind typing the same answer 10 times, as long as it helps the 10 persons who read my answer. :D

[shawnc]

As for myself, if new member wont do the search .. lets welcome them to the community anyway. Afterall, there are plenty of us who are willing to answer repetitive questions from these new-guys-on-the-block, right ? I personally dont mind typing the same answer 10 times, as long as it helps the 10 persons who read my answer. :D

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. This is the type of attitude that have helped this site grow. This site and community is the best thing going partly because we make newbies feel welcome. I've seen so many people gently nudge someone in the "search" direction while also attaching the link.

There are many ways to handle the repeat question situation, attacking new members should not be one of them.

[Kowalski]

attacking new members should not be one of them.
nobody is attacking anybody here :!:
the problem is that as you grow bigger, the problems grow bigger too.
so here is another suggestion: why dont we add a sub-index for newbie questions only?

[shawnc]

attacking new members should not be one of them.
nobody is attacking anybody here :!:

Look, I'll let this go and maybe attribute the difference of opinion to language differences. But when you call someone lazy, you are attacking them. Translation differences notwithstanding, I don't how you could possibly think any differently.

[Jonathon Watkins]

lastly i dont want to offend anybody, this was just an example

and how about this:http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28625

What about it? It's exactly the kind of question I would ask here myself! Someone was asking about recommendations for an MP3 player that could be controlled with a finger while the PPC is mounted to the dash of a car.

So how exactly would you efficiently and successfully search for that one then Kowalski? :confused totally:

The boards are here for folks to help each other, ask questions, shoot the breeze etc. Questions that do not have an easy or cut & dried answer are exactly the ones to ask here. It's GOOD to search first for an answer, but if you don't get the answer you need, then it's GOOD to ask questions here. Share and share alike eh! :wink:

[Kowalski]

so here is the situation:
since i work alot, i am in lots of stress everday in my life even sundays!
this makes me less tolerant.to be more specific
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28625
in this post our friend asked for a player which can map hardware buttons. the amswer is even the default player, windows media can do this. you see, you even dont have to search, just a couple of minutes would be enough to discover the situation.since i answer lots of dumb questions a day, i get sensitive thus cant show patience.

shawnc stated a good point. since i am a non american person, there will be some misunderstandings for sure. in the real life i talk very dirty! but here i want to be as polite as i can.

lastly we are all here to share knowledge for sure. there is no doubt about it. thats why i suggessed this
why dont we add a sub-index for newbie questions only

[JvanEkris]

IMHO,

Problem is that if you let people ask questions for the 10.000.000 time, the board loses it's informative value because it basically becomes a broken down recordplayer. It is absolutely useless. Biggest problem is that the real interesting questions get burried underneath tons of "how do i...." questions that were answered a couple of hundred times before.

Jaap

[Kowalski]

this is the point. i dont understand , is this too hard to understand or people have biased opinions on my posts?

[shawnc]

this is the point. i dont understand , is this too hard to understand or people have biased opinions on my posts?

Kowalski,

It is definitely NOT bias. I generally find your posts to be helpful and insightful. It is simply a difference of opinion. I remember when I was new, there was one member who was particularly mean. Nothing seemed to live up to his lofty standards. I always searched, but as great as this site is, the search feature is just not very helpful (IMO). I just don't think there is any reason to attack people and that's what I thought you were doing. I always respected "veterans" who suggested to newbies that they search. The suggestion usually included a friendly emoticon and a link.

But I don't want to beat a dead horse. I only responded because I wanted you to know my disagreement with your position had nothing to do with bias.

[maximus]

shawnc,

How much did you pay for the 1G SD card ? =)

[Kati Compton]

so here is the situation:
since i work alot, i am in lots of stress everday in my life even sundays!
this makes me less tolerant.to be more specific
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28625
in this post our friend asked for a player which can map hardware buttons. the amswer is even the default player, windows media can do this. you see, you even dont have to search, just a couple of minutes would be enough to discover the situation.since i answer lots of dumb questions a day, i get sensitive thus cant show patience.
My suggestion is that you should just ignore those threads, then. ;) There's no rule that says you have to respond. Ideally, the people that are annoyed don't respond, and the people that aren't, do.

[shawnc]

shawnc,

How much did you pay for the 1G SD card ? =)

Too much! I waited for the 1st price drop and jumped in. Total cost around $340. I think they have come down some more. BTW, mine in sandisk (as are all 3 of my SD cards) and I've had ZERO problems up to this point.

[Kowalski]

ok i am off! i'll keep my mount shut from now on.
you guys are happy now?!

[Janak Parekh]

Problem is that if you let people ask questions for the 10.000.000 time, the board loses it's informative value because it basically becomes a broken down recordplayer. It is absolutely useless. Biggest problem is that the real interesting questions get burried underneath tons of "how do i...." questions that were answered a couple of hundred times before.
Well, as a counterpoint, I find the every-so-often repetition not overwhelming, and moreover, the answers to frequently-asked-questions actually change over time, so having certain issues revisited isn't that much of a problem.

--janak

[JvanEkris]

Well, as a counterpoint, I find the every-so-often repetition not overwhelming, and moreover, the answers to frequently-asked-questions actually change over time, so having certain issues revisited isn't that much of a problem.

--janakI partially agree. However, when now insights arise isn't it much more effective to post it in the one thread that deals with that particular subject, effectively alerting ALL people involved.

Let me give you a real-life example: "Synchronisation with Lotus Notes". The question gets asked about once a month. we systematically move discussion to the (in the mean time gigantic) thread of "How to sync with Lotus Notes". The result is that people dealing with this subject are alerted through the mail-notification, actively reminding them of the fact that a subject of their interest is "Moving". This could be because people ran into trouble (these people can help) or that somebody found out a new way to do this (all people that actively took interest in this thread get new options).

In the way you propose you have about one thread a month regarding the subject. All of them having about 99,99% the same contents. The result is that almost all interested people start to overlook these threads: people are generally lazy and do not answer a question for the 10th time and start skipping the topics because they do not give new insights. Basically that is what is proposed by Kati. Problem is that when something does arise, it is not noticed by all those people because they are skipping the threads, resulting in a far less effective communication of this news.......

Jaap

[shawnc]

This has got to be the most "much ado about nothing" topic in the history of PPCT. I understand the point of a discussion board is to discuss, but come on people. Its not a difficult concept, you don't want to read a topic, DON'T! Really, its just not that hard.

I'll give you an example. I won't read any topic that only has "Help" as the title. In my opinion, if you're asking for help you should give your potential audience a better idea of what the problem is BEFORE they read the post. When I see those threads, I simply don't read them. It really is v-e-r-y easy.

Give it a try!

[JvanEkris]

This has got to be the most "much ado about nothing" topic in the history of PPCT. I understand the point of a discussion board is to discuss, but come on people. Its not a difficult concept, you don't want to read a topic, DON'T! Really, its just not that hard.Why don't you follow your own advice and skip this thread then. As it is clear that you are not interested in this conversation.

Jaap

[shawnc]

Why don't you follow your own advice and skip this thread then. As it is clear that you are not interested in this conversation.
Jaap

I thought that might be coming. Good advice :wink:.

[Kati Compton]

This has got to be the most "much ado about nothing" topic in the history of PPCT. I understand the point of a discussion board is to discuss, but come on people. Its not a difficult concept, you don't want to read a topic, DON'T! Really, its just not that hard.Why don't you follow your own advice and skip this thread then. As it is clear that you are not interested in this conversation.
Or it might be that he *is* interested in the conversation and wanted to voice his opinion on the matter. ;)

[maximus]

I could swear that this thread was locked a couple of minutes ago ..

[ctmagnus]

iirc, when I saw Kati's post above yours when I got the email notification about it, it wasn't. But (again, iirc) I saw it locked once before that point.

Now: Luke, use the search! :mrgreen: