2Gb High Speed MMC Card Released

[Jonathon Watkins]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.dpreview.com/news/0405/04053101pretecmmc4.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.dpreview.com/news/0405/0...1pretecmmc4.asp</a><br /><br /></div>After the talk of cheaper memory, there's no word yet of a price for the following, seen at dpreview:<br /><br /><i>"At Computex Taipei today Pretec demonstrated a new 2 GB card which conforms to the new MMC 4 standard and which Pretec are calling the 'World's Fastest Flash Memory Card'. Thanks to the fact that MMC 4 allows for transfer of 4-bits of data in parallel this new card has a quoted write speed of around 18 MB/sec (120X) and a read speed of around 22.5 MB/sec (150X). If verified this card would indeed be far faster than any current flash memory card. The new card is also backwardly compatible with standard SD / MMC devices."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/pretecmmc4.jpg" /><br /><br />So, combine this with a Pretec <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/0405/04052601pretec12gb.asp">12Gb CF card</a> and you should be set for storage for a while. :wink:

[OSUKid7]

Backwards compatible...so that means it'll work at the slower speed, right? I wonder when we'll start seeing new devices that work at the fast speeds.

[arnage2]

12gb cf and 2gb sd in a tosh e805... i wonder if anyone has all 3

[Ryan Joseph]

It's that backwards compatible part that bothers me. That means that, while the superfast card is here, there aren't any devices that can take advantage of that spead yet. :roll:

But I guess that's the future. The speed will increase on one side and the other will have to catch up. Actually, that's pretty cool. 8)

Isn't there supposed to be another 2GB SD card coming out soon? But if the 1GB card is slow...what would the 2GB version be? 8O

[sponge]

Isn't there supposed to be another 2GB SD card coming out soon? But if the 1GB card is slow...what would the 2GB version be? 8O

Twice as slow as the 1GB? :P

[SeanH]

All the new PDA’s that will be shipping with the PXA270 support 4bit SDIO. Those speeds are 10 X what a CF card will do today. I noticed Cannon is starting to use SD cards in a lot of there new cameras. Hopefully we will start seeing less PDA’s with big bulky CF cards as SD densities grow.

Sean

[ricksfiona]

This is great. Anything that will further reduce the price of current high-end memory cards is certainly welcome.

Though, I would need a 5GB SD Card to have enough MP3, DVD and work files to not really worry about memory space. Who knows... 2005?

[Sven Johannsen]

Why does everyone keep saying SD? The card clearly says MMC , the open standard, as opposed to SD the proprietary standard that robs space for an unused security feature. Just an observation.

[Len M.]

A 2 GB SD card will store only one hour of 24-bit/96 Kilosample per second high-resolution audio, but will store 3 hours at CD quality (16-bit/44.1 KS/s).

We need at least 2 hours of 24/96, so we are "chomping at the bit" waiting for the 4 GB SD cards to be announced.

For now, CF cards still have the edge (if only the discounted price of the 4 GB CF cards would drop to under $500).


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

[huangzhinong]

it is MMC card, not SD.

[SeanH]

A 2 GB SD card will store only one hour of 24-bit/96 Kilosample per second high-resolution audio, but will store 3 hours at CD quality (16-bit/44.1 KS/s).

We need at least 2 hours of 24/96, so we are "chomping at the bit" waiting for the 4 GB SD cards to be announced.

The audio CODEC in a PPC will not output audio better then 44KHz 16bit. They use devices like this

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/pcm3006.html

Sean

[Len M.]

That's true but they can record at up to 24/96 using our PDAudio-CF card, and then you can transfer them to a PC for editing or 24/96 playback.

If you want to play the high-res audio files on a PDA, players like Conduits Pocket Player will play them within the hardware constraints of the PDA (16/48 max).


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

[lapchinj]

It's that backwards compatible part that bothers me. That means that, while the superfast card is here, there aren't any devices that can take advantage of that spead yet. :roll:
So basically for older PDA's like my iPAQ 3800 series it's just a another 2 gig card?

Where can we find out what the real world read/write speeds of the various PDA's (or at least a good rule of thumb). I always see the card speeds at its best but have no way of relating those manufacturer produced specs to actual PDA performance. It would seem from this thread that even though read/write speeds of cards are are really growing the ability to use that speed is not and the performance gains don't really justify the cost.

Are these hi-performance cards any better than the micro-drives?

Jeff-

[Pony99CA]

It's that backwards compatible part that bothers me. That means that, while the superfast card is here, there aren't any devices that can take advantage of that spead yet. :roll:
Actually, I don't think that's what it means at all. It sounds like the card will work at full speed in devices supporting 4-bit transfers, but will also work in devices that only support 1-bit transfers.

So the question is whether there are any devices that support 4-bit transfers. The 1-bit MMC-compatibility mode for SD cards was one of the biggest complaints about the iPAQ 3800s, and I thought that was fixed in the 3900s. However, I've also read recently that the XScale SD support is only 1-bit, so I'm not sure any more. :?:

Could HP have designed the iPAQs so that their SD slots bypassed the XScale support? Would anybody be interested in me benchmarking my 512 MB SD card in my iPAQ 3870 and 5550?

Steve

[R K]

Would anybody be interested in me benchmarking my 512 MB SD card in my iPAQ 3870 and 5550?

I'd be interested, and I'm sure there'll be a couple more.
Go for it.

[SeanH]

So the question is whether there are any devices that support 4-bit transfers.
The iPAQ 3870 has a SA1110 CPU that supports 1-bit SD/MMC cards
The iPAQ 5550 has a PXA255 that supports 4-bit SD/MMC cards
All new PDA's with a PXA270 will support 4-bit SD/MMC cards

Sean

[R K]

So the question is whether there are any devices that support 4-bit transfers.
The iPAQ 3870 has a SA1110 CPU that supports 1-bit SD/MMC cards
The iPAQ 5550 has a PXA255 that supports 4-bit SD/MMC cards
All new PDA's with a PXA270 will support 4-bit SD/MMC cards

Are you sure?
According to <a href=http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article82-page1.php>THIS ARTICLE</a> at Tom's Hardware, all PXA255 XScale CPUs use a 1-bit SD Bus.

[Jonathon Watkins]

OK, corrected title to show MMC instead of SD. I always tend to use the term interchangeably..... :oops:

[Pony99CA]

So the question is whether there are any devices that support 4-bit transfers.
The iPAQ 3870 has a SA1110 CPU that supports 1-bit SD/MMC cards
The iPAQ 5550 has a PXA255 that supports 4-bit SD/MMC cards
All new PDA's with a PXA270 will support 4-bit SD/MMC cards
Are you sure?
According to <a href=http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article82-page1.php>THIS ARTICLE</a> at Tom's Hardware, all PXA255 XScale CPUs use a 1-bit SD Bus.
That article is why I asked if some iPAQs bypassed the XScale SD bus. In fact, the article was recently updated with the following:

Update May 27, 2004 - An informed source told me that the H2210 actually doesn't use the PXA255's MMC interface for SD. Instead it uses a Samsung "iPAQ Companion Chip" that includes an SD Host controller capable of 4-bit SDIO operation. So it would appear that the H2210's hardware is willing but the firmware is weak...

I would guess that the iPAQ 3900s, 4000s and 5000s also don't use the MMC interface.

Steve

[Len M.]

Where can we find out what the real world read/write speeds of the various PDA's (or at least a good rule of thumb). I always see the card speeds at its best but have no way of relating those manufacturer produced specs to actual PDA performance. It would seem from this thread that even though read/write speeds of cards are are really growing the ability to use that speed is not and the performance gains don't really justify the cost.

Have a look at our Web site's benchmark page:

http://www.core-sound.com/CF-and-SD-mass-storage-comparison.html*


In general, we've found Pocket PC PDAs max write rate through CF and SD slots (or expansion packs) is about 1.6 MByte/second (around 10x).



Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

*URL fixed by mod SJC

[Pony99CA]

Where can we find out what the real world read/write speeds of the various PDA's (or at least a good rule of thumb). I always see the card speeds at its best but have no way of relating those manufacturer produced specs to actual PDA performance. It would seem from this thread that even though read/write speeds of cards are are really growing the ability to use that speed is not and the performance gains don't really justify the cost.
Have a look at our Web site's benchmark page:

http://www.core-sound.com/CF-and-SD-mass-storage-comparison.html

In general, we've found Pocket PC PDAs max write rate through is about 1.6 MByte/second (around 10x).
Your link didn't work because of the right parenthesis. When posting URLs, it's best to put URL tags around them, especially if they are followed by punctuation.

Here's a working link: Core Sound Storage Comparison (http://www.core-sound.com/CF-and-SD-mass-storage-comparison.html)

Steve

[brianworkman]

I might have over looked it, but has anybody mentioned the possible price when it hits the streets?

[Jonathon Watkins]

I did mention in the original post that there was no price quoted..... which is usually not good. :?

[Pony99CA]

I did mention in the original post that there was no price quoted..... which is usually not good. :?
When their 1 GB MMC card (which wasn't based on MMC 4.0) came out in January, I asked Pretec and was told it would it cost about $600 when CeBit rolled around. So I doubt you'll get this for less than $1,000.

I have E-mailed Pretec about pricing and availability.

Steve

[lapchinj]

Have a look at our Web site's benchmark page:

http://www.core-sound.com/CF-and-SD-mass-storage-comparison.html
Seek and you shall find! Your site is a goldmine of stats and general card info. BTW PDAudio-CF seems neat especially since I use the Resco recorder. I could see using a 2 gig card with this puppy. COOL 8) .

Jeff-

[maximus]

Then perhaps the flash card manufacturers need to start marketing their products as fashionable items.

So instead of "diamonds are forever" now we have "12 GB CFs 80x are forever" ... and we start seeing people wearing these 12 GB CFs as earrings ... That will be a new definition of marketing =)

[R K]

and we start seeing people wearing these 12 GB CFs as earrings ... That will be a new definition of marketing =)

Actually, that'll be a new definition of geekiness.

[maximus]

Well, I am sure 200-300 years ago, wearing a shiny rock on your ear/neck/wrist was also considered as a sign of geekiness =)

[Pony99CA]

Then perhaps the flash card manufacturers need to start marketing their products as fashionable items.

So instead of "diamonds are forever" now we have "12 GB CFs 80x are forever" ...
Well, the cards probably aren't forever -- but you will be paying for them forever. :lol:

Maybe Barbra Streisand can sing "Flash Memories...."

Steve

[Steven Cedrone]

I feel compelled to jump in here and say... :twak: (Anyway, these things would never be fashionable unless they were available in designer colors, everybody knows that! Sheesh!:wink: )

And before we derail this any further, let's :nonono:

:wink:

Steve

[maximus]

2 GB storage on my SD slot. Hmm ... that is around 700 oggs on a single device. Awesome. Now all we need a more powerful battery for the PDA. No more boring flights =)

[ctmagnus]

You're sure you're using OGG (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=251649#251649)? ;)

[maximus]

Yeeees I am sure :p

To me, ogg is the only way to go on mobile device. Nothing else.
I remembered the joy I had during my first ogg conversion.
What ? 2 MB per song ? Awesome.