Sony To Abandon Clie And Palm OS? Could Be...

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.mobi-mania.com/index.php?xCnt=plus/comment&amp;id=2840&amp;title=Commentaire">http://www.mobi-mania.com/index.php?xCnt=plus/comment&amp;id=2840&amp;title=Commentaire</a><br /><br />The French site Mobi-Mania is reporting that Sony is making some changes to their handheld division. The <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emobi%2Dmania%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3FxCnt%3Dplus%2Fcomment%26id%3D2840%26title%3DCommentaire">translation is here</a>.<br /><br />Among the items listed are:<br />• They will go their own way with smart phones and Sony Ericsson under Symbian will be abandoned.<br />• The Clie is not in Sony's Mobile Electronic devices family, pictured below. The climbing Pocket PC marketshare is mentioned as a reason at the French site.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2004/20040528-noclie.gif" /><br /><br />Interesting, but if it is true, it is not unexpected. I have never been able to figure out how Sony has come even <i>remotely</i> close to break-even on their Clie product line. They never really broke even 15% marketshare and their hardware has always been bleeding edge, which is expensive. And their lame memory stick policy hasn't helped.<br /><br />What do you think? Are the rumors true? Will PalmOne be the only real customer of PalmSource? We are supposed to see an official announcement some time next week.

[Chris Spera]

If this is true, Sony is going to have a VERY hard time selling their Memory Stick Storage Cards in the PPC arena. I hate propretary memory, and never did think much of the memory stick. Its over priced and more than twice the (physical) size of an SD Card.

If they can lose the Memory Stick and come out with some cool bleeding edge PPC and PPC-PE devices, they might get my business...

[Zack Mahdavi]

If they can lose the Memory Stick and come out with some cool bleeding edge PPC and PPC-PE devices, they might get my business...

Do you really think they're switching sides? This article makes me believe that Sony is leaving the handheld market altogether. There's no mention of handhelds in the "Mobile Electronics" category.. it's possible that Sony might choose the MS Smartphone OS for their new smartphones, but I think Sony is more likely to introduce their own OS.

I'm not surprised though that Sony's CLIE sales haven't been good. Their Palm devices were always really good, but they were also really expensive. Who wants to pay $700 for a handheld with a 2MP camera? Also, their low end devices were always unimaginative and overpriced.

However, I thought Sony was learning from its mistakes with its latest releases such as the TH55 and TJ37. Maybe sales just haven't been as good as expected? Could their problems with Palmsource also contribute to the decision?

[huangzhinong]

They may cancel the Clie, but they never say they will produce Pocket Pc. There is NO enough room in Pocket Pc for SONY to make a profit, considering the always high price of their products.

[Gremmie]

If this is true, Sony is going to have a VERY hard time selling their Memory Stick Storage Cards in the PPC arena.

But when Acer released their MemoryStick PPC, a lot of people were happy that they could use their MemorySticks from their nice Sony camera's.

[dh]

If this is true, Sony is going to have a VERY hard time selling their Memory Stick Storage Cards in the PPC arena. I hate propretary memory, and never did think much of the memory stick. Its over priced and more than twice the (physical) size of an SD Card.

If they can lose the Memory Stick and come out with some cool bleeding edge PPC and PPC-PE devices, they might get my business...
Chris, the way I read this is that Sony are getting out of PDA devices totally, not making a switch to WM OS.

It's tempting to think about though. I think we've all looked with some envy at the cool hardware that Sony customers have compared with the succession of boring tablet PPCs. A friend of mine is using the original Sony clamshell (I forget the model number) and it's still cool.

I think the Clie line could have been a great success if Sony had gone with PPC (or better stiill Linux) in the first place, at least the OS would do justice to the hardware. As it is, being stuck with POS and the corporate Memory Stick requirement has stopped the product line from reaching it's potential.

Still it will be a shame if they do leave the PDA market. There was an article at Brighthand about there being just two big guys left in the market before long, this looks to be a step towards that happening.

Removing Sony and their great designs is not going to help with fueling innovation. I'm sure my Zaurus was inspired by the swivelling screens on the Clie.

But when Acer released their MemoryStick PPC, a lot of people were happy that they could use their MemorySticks from their nice Sony camera's.
I wonder how many were happy enough to buy one. I've certainly never seen, or heard of, anyone with one.

[huangzhinong]

If this is true, Sony is going to have a VERY hard time selling their Memory Stick Storage Cards in the PPC arena.

But when Acer released their MemoryStick PPC, a lot of people were happy that they could use their MemorySticks from their nice Sony camera's.

You must know why Acer abandon memorystick in the second and third generation PPC.

[Ed Hansberry]

If they can lose the Memory Stick and come out with some cool bleeding edge PPC and PPC-PE devices, they might get my business...

Do you really think they're switching sides? This article makes me believe that Sony is leaving the handheld market altogether.
That is my take. The PlayStation Personal is their future. THey are done with PDAs.

[Paul P]

If they can lose the Memory Stick and come out with some cool bleeding edge PPC and PPC-PE devices, they might get my business...

Do you really think they're switching sides? This article makes me believe that Sony is leaving the handheld market altogether.
That is my take. The PlayStation Personal is their future. THey are done with PDAs.

It would be a bad call for Sony to leave the handheld market. Common sense would dictate that they will continue to compete in a market that is still in its infancy and promises much growth. This is not the first time Sony faced bumps in the road as well. They have both the resources and the persistance to continue innovating and take chances. The only problem with their devices is the OS running on them. I also think that the proprietary nature of the company will not carry much weight should Sony decide to run WindowsMobile. Their share would increase substantially IMO. Keeping up with the capacities of SD clearly hasn't been a problem. Sony is also starting to open up to other formats, as can be seen in the new digi cam that accepts CF.

[Felix Torres]

If true, this would be good for PalmOne but bad for PalmSource.
A lot of effort went into splitting the company and if SONY bails it would leave PalmSource at the mercy of PalmOne.

PalmOne, of the other hand, would stop being embarrassed by SONY hardware and they would have a shot at capturing at least half the CLIE share.
Of course, all this is predicated on SONY actually leaving the market.

If they stay, nothing changes.
If they jump to PPC, that would be a *major* black eye to the platform, when the premier innovator jumps ship that way.
Worth keeping an eye out, here...

[dangerwit]

If they can lose the Memory Stick and come out with some cool bleeding edge PPC and PPC-PE devices, they might get my business...

Do you really think they're switching sides? This article makes me believe that Sony is leaving the handheld market altogether.
That is my take. The PlayStation Personal is their future. THey are done with PDAs.

It would be a bad call for Sony to leave the handheld market. Common sense would dictate that they will continue to compete in a market that is still in its infancy and promises much growth.

I'm not sure about this. PPCs have been around for over 7 years in some fashion or another. Businesses chomp them up, but not the average person. In my extended family, I am the only one who carries one (not to mention, three!). :)

I know it's not a benchmark, but how many people do you see tapping while on the streets (don't answer if yer in Silicon Valley). I see few.

Now, go to Japan, and look around for 30 seconds. I guarantee you'll see at least a dozen people tapping on their cell phones. I think PPCs may be a bigger-than-your-average niche product.

As for Sony, their devices were really cool, but I despised the proprietary memory formats too, and I refused to buy any device that actively limited my options. Thankfully, I stuck to my guns, and now I still have some PPC devices that are very useful -- the Clie's might be in danger.

(Except maybe that PSP... there's a neat looking gadget.)

*Phil

[bdegroodt]

Am I reading this correctly? Is this site claiming Sony is ditching Sony Ericsson? Surely that can't be right. They've made it over the hump now and have some product mojo in that segment.

[Pat Logsdon]

Am I reading this correctly? Is this site claiming Sony is ditching Sony Ericsson? Surely that can't be right. They've made it over the hump now and have some product mojo in that segment.
My impression from the article is that Sony will ditch Symbian in Sony Ericsson phones and use a Sony OS instead. :roll:

[bdegroodt]

Am I reading this correctly? Is this site claiming Sony is ditching Sony Ericsson? Surely that can't be right. They've made it over the hump now and have some product mojo in that segment.
My impression from the article is that Sony will ditch Symbian in Sony Ericsson phones and use a Sony OS instead. :roll:
Oh. I'd say that makes sense, but it doesn't to me. Your response makes sense. Ditching the OS doesn't...but that's so Sony, I suppose. :?

[Shadowcat]

That is my take. The PlayStation Personal is their future. THey are done with PDAs.

It would be a bad call for Sony to leave the handheld market. Common sense would dictate that they will continue to compete in a market that is still in its infancy and promises much growth.

I'm not sure about this. PPCs have been around for over 7 years in some fashion or another. Businesses chomp them up, but not the average person. In my extended family, I am the only one who carries one (not to mention, three!). :)

I know it's not a benchmark, but how many people do you see tapping while on the streets (don't answer if yer in Silicon Valley). I see few.

Now, go to Japan, and look around for 30 seconds. I guarantee you'll see at least a dozen people tapping on their cell phones. I think PPCs may be a bigger-than-your-average niche product.
...


My guess would also be Sony is leaving the PDA market and concentrating on its PSP. That is the only logical thing for them to do. However that's bad news for the PDA market with a major innovator gone.

I came back to Canada from Hong Kong close to two years ago. I've gone back to Hong Kong both Christmases and I saw more people with PDAs each time. If there is no market growth potential here, there likely is in Asia. However, Hong Kong people love Sony. I wonder what brand they would switch to if Sony leaves the market...

As for Japan, I'm curious if you've been there and which part of it you visited. I visited the Japanese island of Hokkaido this Christmas (yes, along with my trip to Hong Kong) and the cell phones there looked really clunky. I would have thought that really small cell phones would be the most popular there. However, Hokkaido is relatively uninhabited compared to the island which Tokyo is on (sorry, don't know the name). And no, I didn't see anyone tapping on cell phones during my 5 day stay in Hokkaido.

edit:
I think there is potential for market growth everywhere. I believe many of my friends would be interested in getting a PDA but they are just too costly. If someone releases a good featured but relatively inexpensive model (the Zire doesn't count, it's too limited in features) then I think they will gain marketshare. I think there are a fair number of people who are interested in PDAs but are not sure how useful they are and are not willing to pay as much as the average PPCT user.

[mangochutneyman]

If they can lose the Memory Stick and come out with some cool bleeding edge PPC and PPC-PE devices, they might get my business...

Do you really think they're switching sides? This article makes me believe that Sony is leaving the handheld market altogether.
That is my take. The PlayStation Personal is their future. THey are done with PDAs.

It would be a bad call for Sony to leave the handheld market. Common sense would dictate that they will continue to compete in a market that is still in its infancy and promises much growth. This is not the first time Sony faced bumps in the road as well. They have both the resources and the persistance to continue innovating and take chances. The only problem with their devices is the OS running on them....

Oh please... :roll: What growth?! The pda industry is stagnant shrinking non-growth niche segment...in fact it hasn't grown at all for a very loooong time. The only people who don't realize this are hardcore users in places like here and elsewhere. Secondly, there's alot of users at cliesource who would disagree about your statement regarding the OS as well. 2004 will be the first year where smartphones/pdaphones will surpass sales of pda's. Sony knows this and that's why they're probably emphasizing the two areas where they know they can grow: mobile gaming a la PSP, and the smartphone segment via their SE partnership. It is quite conceivable SE may drop Symbian since Nokia has acquired majority stake in the consortium. The only question is which OS would Sony choose then if it did drop Symbian? WM? Yeah right... Sony is an inate strategic competitor for MS and would never do that. The only other options are PalmOS, Linux or a proprietary OS. Regarding PalmOS, Sony's CEO has already mentioned in the past that he was interested in buying Palmsource, plus PalmSource exec Nagel has previously hinted that SE was interested in becoming a Palmsource lisenceee, so it is defintely possible. Linux is also a possibility but that really isn't Sony's style while a proprietary OS just wouldn't fly in the smartphone market.

As far as the Clie line, it will always be second fiddle to the PSP and SE. The volume just isn't there, but that doesn't mean Sony will abandon it just yet... Recall that there have been rumors that Sony will release a Clie UX series version with gsm/gprs. Thus, there should be a few more clies yet to come...

[zipmail]

I really don't get Sony sometimes. Heck, even Nobuyuki Idei sometimes don't get it either. When Bill Gates asked him why does he have Symbian on phones and PalmOS on PDAs, Idei apparently said "I don't know why".

The PSP has been touted as the future Walkman/iPod killer and will soon come to a store near you. Quite frankly, they already have it under their nose all these while. It's called Clie.

Think about it and I am referring to their newest TH55. It is an excellent MP3 player. It plays video 30fps, it plays games (and they have released game controllers before), Bluetooth/WiFi, gorgeous 320 x 480 screen and long battery life. The framework is there. What they needed to do was stick in one of those 4GB Cornice or Hitachi mini-drives. And maybe up the HandHeld Engine CPU power to handle those fancy polygons. But no, we now have the PSP with yet another proprietary format - UMD.

But of course when Sony's PlayStation division contributes 40% of Sony's profit, hypothetically, Ken Kutaragi is able to tell Idei, kill off the rest because the PSP (which is his baby) is going to replace the Clie and SonyEricsson phones. We hear PSP can be enabled with a GSM chip too. It may even make coffee for you.

I think it is heresy if the Clie gets canned. Sony's Clie is probably the most imaginative and innovative PDAs around. PPC's flagship is probably from HP but it is nowhere near the Clie in elegance - and I am not talking about the OS here, just the hardware. Now, don't get in a huff. It is my honest opinion and sure, Clies are generally more expensive but that's their positioning. In the PPC arena, brandnames and nonames slug out over virtually the same hardware specs.

Come to think of it, it is harder to make money in the PPC side compared to PalmOS when you have the Wal-Mart of IT hardware - Dell - also slugging out with the rest.

As for SonyEricsson, I don't think they'll get out of the market for cellphones. The PDA market may shrink because of cellphones - as more and more people use a cellphone/PDA combo device. There are more cellphone users than PDA users. Will they keep Symbian? It doesn't make sense when PalmOS can be used on one to run it. The Treo 600 has been a success and that cannot be missed by them.

I too, sometimes wonder if Sony makes money with their Clie line. They were releasing new models nearly every 3 months last year. Perhaps, there is a bigger picture that we don't know of, but it will be indeed a crying shame if it gets killed.

[dazz]

Maybe Sony's problem has been that they had too many models available at the same time and were almost cutting their own sales.

Take a look at what Dell is doing; they have introduced three new models which are basically the same device with different specs. That HAS to save them a load on manufacturing costs. When they bring out the replacement for the X5 they will still only have 2 designs but probably 6 different models.

HP doesn't get this though. They have, what, 7 new devices coming out? I have had a hard enough time keeping track of the previous models from them.

If Sony gives up on Palm OS I think they will have wasted a lot of good effort. I say they should drop the Symbian OS and go with Palm OS across the board BUT they should keep a tight rein on the number of models.

[Gremmie]

Maybe Sony's problem has been that they had too many models available at the same time and were almost cutting their own sales.

If that was the case they would cut back on models, not withdraw from the market.

[Paul P]

Oh please... :roll: What growth?! The pda industry is stagnant shrinking non-growth niche segment...in fact it hasn't grown at all for a very loooong time. The only people who don't realize this are hardcore users in places like here and elsewhere.

Are you suggesting that this is a trend? Statistics are not required for this one. Look around. Look at the growth in the past 6 years. The market has grown despite an economic downturn and despite the absense of rapid innovation. People want everything in the palm of their hands. We are just scratching the surface here. You're talking about the pda industry shrinking? I guess this explains why there is more competition in the industry than ever. There is a demand for everything to get smaller and more powerful.

As for the people here, you can probably say that PCs were once also an interest of the few hardcore users. We're still in the infancy like I said.

Secondly, there's alot of users at cliesource who would disagree about your statement regarding the OS as well. 2004 will be the first year where smartphones/pdaphones will surpass sales of pda's. Sony knows this and that's why they're probably emphasizing the two areas where they know they can grow: mobile gaming a la PSP, and the smartphone segment via their SE partnership. It is quite conceivable SE may drop Symbian since Nokia has acquired majority stake in the consortium. The only question is which OS would Sony choose then if it did drop Symbian? WM? Yeah right... Sony is an inate strategic competitor for MS and would never do that. The only other options are PalmOS, Linux or a proprietary OS. Regarding PalmOS, Sony's CEO has already mentioned in the past that he was interested in buying Palmsource, plus PalmSource exec Nagel has previously hinted that SE was interested in becoming a Palmsource lisenceee, so it is defintely possible. Linux is also a possibility but that really isn't Sony's style while a proprietary OS just wouldn't fly in the smartphone market.

Sony is not limited into going with one OS or the other. It doesn't have to committ to an exclusive direction. There will also be no distinction between the smartphone/pdaphone, because eventually technological advancements will force them to merge. This is one reason why you cannot label current market conditions as stagnant. The market itself has not been fully defined yet. Inherent potential is enormous and how the use of the technology will unfold is anyone's guess.

[dangerwit]

As for Japan, I'm curious if you've been there and which part of it you visited. I visited the Japanese island of Hokkaido this Christmas (yes, along with my trip to Hong Kong) and the cell phones there looked really clunky. I would have thought that really small cell phones would be the most popular there. However, Hokkaido is relatively uninhabited compared to the island which Tokyo is on (sorry, don't know the name). And no, I didn't see anyone tapping on cell phones during my 5 day stay in Hokkaido.

I was recently in the Tokyo area for about 8 days for work-related stuff (airline). I traveled a lot on my off time, spending WAY too much time on their trains and subways (efficient, though). :) If I recall, I spent most of my time in Narita, Akihabara, Nippori, and a couple other spots. (Also got to experience my first earthquake! 5.3 about 70 km south of me I think)

I'd have loved to visit Hokkaido, since there is some history there relevant to what I study in my free time... but alas, no go.

Most of the phones I saw in use were indeed rather large. Not thick, but just physically large. Down around Akihabara, things were different. Small and smaller phones there. I took a pic of one that I could literally conceal about 95% of it in my fist (I'm 5'7"). And I saw MANY of them, I was really amazed at the large number. Mostly men, but enough women used 'em for me to notice.

I see PPCs as a communication/data assistant device, not as laptop replacements. I think that's the shift we've been witness to the past year or so, and it makes sense to a degree.

I suspect we're also seeing a new phase, a sort of reorientation as to who PDAs will target. Sony is backing out, Best Buy only carries a model or two... these are big groups. It'll be interesting to watch it evolve.

*Phil

[Gremmie]

Oh please... :roll: What growth?! The pda industry is stagnant shrinking non-growth niche segment...in fact it hasn't grown at all for a very loooong time. The only people who don't realize this are hardcore users in places like here and elsewhere.

Are you suggesting that this is a trend? Statistics are not required for this one. Look around. Look at the growth in the past 6 years. The market has grown despite an economic downturn and despite the absense of rapid innovation. People want everything in the palm of their hands. We are just scratching the surface here. You're talking about the pda industry shrinking? I guess this explains why there is more competition in the industry than ever. There is a demand for everything to get smaller and more powerful.

No, PDA sales have contracted in 2002 and 2003. It has steadily receeded and has caused many editorial columns about the end of the great PDA growth. Don't mistake this for the end of PDA's. It is becoming a common commodity. However, it is not a large growth industry. You are confusing the demand for palm-sized devices for the demand of PDA's.

Claiming that the increase in competition is an example of the industry is inaccurate. The increase in competition does not necessitate a strong industry. Even then, it hasn't increased. Palm use to have 4 main competitors (Palm, Handspring, Sony, and HandEra); PocketPC had 3 (HP, Compaq, Casio). Palm is down to 2 and PPC has maintained 3 (HP, Dell, Toshiba; although Toshiba may be withdrawing).

[mangochutneyman]

Are you suggesting that this is a trend? Statistics are not required for this one. Look around. Look at the growth in the past 6 years. The market has grown despite an economic downturn and despite the absense of rapid innovation. People want everything in the palm of their hands. We are just scratching the surface here. You're talking about the pda industry shrinking? I guess this explains why there is more competition in the industry than ever. There is a demand for everything to get smaller and more powerful.


Umm...have you been living in a cave or something? I mean really, what the heck are you talking about? :roll: If you don't know that the pda segment isn't growing or that it hasn't grown for several years now, or that it's being eclipsed by pdaphones/smartphones, then I don't know what to tell ya. This is not my opinion, it is a fact...

As far as competion, the reality is that there is now more consolidation than anything else. Just cuz you may see a ton more models by hp at compusa doesn't mean the market is expanding...

Sony is not limited into going with one OS or the other. It doesn't have to committ to an exclusive direction.


I never said they were.

There will also be no distinction between the smartphone/pdaphone, because eventually technological advancements will force them to merge. This is one reason why you cannot label current market conditions as stagnant. The market itself has not been fully defined yet. Inherent potential is enormous and how the use of the technology will unfold is anyone's guess.


I totally disagree. Pda's and smartphones are completely different animals. Of course there's overlap in technology and functionality, but you cannot simply say the pda industry is growing b/c smartphones are growing. Both segments have competely different OS platforms, different business paradigms, and different dominant players. MS offers different OS for PPC and smartphones and PalmSource has also done the same thing with Garnet/Cobalt. Furthermore, the major players are completely different with the Nokias and SE as the major players. In addition, there are considerations like wireless carrier relationships to consider which are not relavant to PDA industry. Finally every major market analyst makes a disctinction between the pda industry and smartphones and it has thoroughly been established that the former is stagnating while the latter is booming...

[Paul P]

No, PDA sales have contracted in 2002 and 2003. It has steadily receeded and has caused many editorial columns about the end of the great PDA growth. Don't mistake this for the end of PDA's. It is becoming a common commodity. However, it is not a large growth industry. You are confusing the demand for palm-sized devices for the demand of PDA's.

Weak economy has plagued many products, PDAs is just one of them. Overall growth in the past six or seven years has been substantial in terms of volume. I can draw many comparisons of products that exprienced lackluster sales in 2002 and 2003 because of uncertainty and weak demand. Many sectors of technology overall have yet to recover from the recession. If we experience an upturn, but continue to experience declining growth, then we can add more certainty to the speculation of the PDA market remaining in stagnation.

Claiming that the increase in competition is an example of the industry is inaccurate. The increase in competition does not necessitate a strong industry. Even then, it hasn't increased. Palm use to have 4 main competitors (Palm, Handspring, Sony, and HandEra); PocketPC had 3 (HP, Compaq, Casio). Palm is down to 2 and PPC has maintained 3 (HP, Dell, Toshiba; although Toshiba may be withdrawing).

Adding Dell alone to the equation is saying quite a bit to me. Don't forget other small, but promising players, like Asus and numerous others I have seen pop on PPCT. :wink: Yes, increase in competition does not necessitate a strong industry and I was not insinuating that it was. When a company like Dell decides to enter the PPC market, it means they are seeing the potential for growth. Perhaps it was imment for them to enter the market simply to keep up, but I don't see it that way.

Calling this a niche market or one without much more promise for growth is premature at best. The last two years are not representative of anything, except the nature of cyclic market and the volatile nature of the technology sector.

[Paul P]

Umm...have you been living in a cave or something? I mean really, what the heck are you talking about? :roll: If you don't know that the pda segment isn't growing or that it hasn't grown for several years now, or that it's being eclipsed by pdaphones/smartphones, then I don't know what to tell ya. This is not my opinion, it is a fact...

As far as competion, the reality is that there is now more consolidation than anything else. Just cuz you may see a ton more models by hp at compusa doesn't mean the market is expanding...

Both segments have competely different OS platforms, different business paradigms, and different dominant players. MS offers different OS for PPC and smartphones and PalmSource has also done the same thing with Garnet/Cobalt. Furthermore, the major players are completely different with the Nokias and SE as the major players. In addition, there are considerations like wireless carrier relationships to consider which are not relavant to PDA industry. Finally every major market analyst makes a disctinction between the pda industry and smartphones and it has thoroughly been established that the former is stagnating while the latter is booming...

I think you are missing the point. You are limiting the market, and hence their growth, by drawing this distinction between smartphones and traditional pdas. The latter is the extention of the former as far as I am concerned. The H6300 will still be a PDA, but with added functionality. Chosing a wireless carrier suddenly becomes relevant doesn't it? That's where I see the potential and that's where I see growth. PDAs or smartphones? In reality, one is really merging into the other. Clearly, they are different in terms of functionality and capability, but how long will that gap last? Smartphones are becoming increasing faster and more powerful, attaining those attributes that you see in current pdas. It's a matter of interpretation and to me the market is not really stagnating but evolving.

[Gremmie]

Weak economy has plagued many products, PDAs is just one of them. Overall growth in the past six or seven years has been substantial in terms of volume. I can draw many comparisons of products that exprienced lackluster sales in 2002 and 2003 because of uncertainty and weak demand. Many sectors of technology overall have yet to recover from the recession. If we experience an upturn, but continue to experience declining growth, then we can add more certainty to the speculation of the PDA market remaining in stagnation.

Of course the market has grown in the past 6 or 7 years, it hardly existed before then. It's easy to grow from nothing. :roll: Besides, your view of the economy is too broad and inaccurate. Consumption has increasing significantly. MP3 players have been the absolute rave, but PDA's haven't recovered. Computer sales are recovering nicely for some companies, especially Dell. So, no, the economy isn't weak on the personal consumption front and PDA sales aren't recovering with it--but other PDA-like sectors are.

Adding Dell alone to the equation is saying quite a bit to me. Don't forget other small, but promising players, like Asus and numerous others I have seen pop on PPCT. :wink: Yes, increase in competition does not necessitate a strong industry and I was not insinuating that it was. When a company like Dell decides to enter the PPC market, it means they are seeing the potential for growth. Perhaps it was imment for them to enter the market simply to keep up, but I don't see it that way.

Dell's entry into the market isn't sufficient evidence and hardly substatiates your earlier comment. Apple didn't get into selling music for profit--in fact, they make little. They do it to increase product name and other sales. Dell entered the market to increase the name and to help meet a target to increase revenue to 20 billion (not profit). Dell's entry into the market is a zero-sum game. Their sales are at the expense of other companies, not getting new customers. If anything, their tactic is to get low-priced consumers into the market--hardly the cutting edge.

[Paul P]

Consumption has increasing significantly. MP3 players have been the absolute rave, but PDA's haven't recovered. Computer sales are recovering nicely for some companies, especially Dell. So, no, the economy isn't weak on the personal consumption front and PDA sales aren't recovering with it--but other PDA-like sectors are.

Sorry, I don't think that's a good example. I would associate that 'absolute rave' with something else going on in that time period. :) Think of it this way, it's like buying a playstation knowing you can get all the games for free. It was a huge factor to fuel growth and sales. Also, it's not quite the same as PDAs. MP3 players are replacing something outdated (bulky cd players and such). There is naturally more inclination towards them. Getting offtopic here. :wink:

Dell's entry into the market isn't sufficient evidence and hardly substatiates your earlier comment. Apple didn't get into selling music for profit--in fact, they make little. They do it to increase product name and other sales. Dell entered the market to increase the name and to help meet a target to increase revenue to 20 billion (not profit). Dell's entry into the market is a zero-sum game. Their sales are at the expense of other companies, not getting new customers. If anything, their tactic is to get low-priced consumers into the market--hardly the cutting edge.

Dell's entry into the market is just an example and I have said that they may have done so just to "keep up."

[bjornkeizers]

PalmOne, of the other hand, would stop being embarrassed by SONY hardware and they would have a shot at capturing at least half the CLIE share.

No. I doubt many Clie owners would go back to a Palm that easily. There's Palm, and there's Clie - two totally different things. It's like saying a Porsche owner would go back to driving a Volkswagen, since it's basically the same thing...

Palm doesn't really have any killer hardware like Sony does. Sure, you pay a premium for the bleeding edge stuff, but who cares? It's an expensive hobby, and if you want the best - you have to pay. I have a Sony Clie TH55. It's got everything, and it's seriously tempting me away from the PPC field. Hell, if the screen was but a bit bigger, I'd dump my laptop... It's *that* good.

[Daimaou]

Well if you want the echo of the JAPANESE side ;) (I am in JAPAN)

The SONY Clie is the best seller in JAPAN, it will be strange that SONY will step off this market without any replacing devices...

And as Someone SAID, YES... the replacing Device is there.... PSP... SONY will swap all Clie USERS to the PSP (I bet my shirt on IT)

The PSP offer everything you want, and look the same will come very soon to US pocket PC users ;)

I am pretty sure that within a 1 year or 2, Pocket PC and the not even yet release Portable Media Center will be only one devices...

Look what Archos is doing now, with their High-hand ARCHOS, it include both the basic fonction of a Zaurus, and the Fonction of a PMC...

Archos is just one step ahead of everyone.


My 2 cents

[Fishie]

Except for the simple fact that NO WORKING PROTOTYPES of the PSP exist and that NO PDA FUNCTIONALITY is at this point planned for the PSP.

At E3 all PSPs were simply controllers with an LCD screen running content of a PC behind a wall.

This was confirmed to me by Sony reps, when I asked Kutaragi to power up the one he carried in his pocket he sheepishly told me that THE BATTERY WAS EMPTY.

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.

[orol]

PalmOne, of the other hand, would stop being embarrassed by SONY hardware and they would have a shot at capturing at least half the CLIE share.

No. I doubt many Clie owners would go back to a Palm that easily. There's Palm, and there's Clie - two totally different things. It's like saying a Porsche owner would go back to driving a Volkswagen, since it's basically the same thing...

Palm doesn't really have any killer hardware like Sony does. Sure, you pay a premium for the bleeding edge stuff, but who cares? It's an expensive hobby, and if you want the best - you have to pay. I have a Sony Clie TH55. It's got everything, and it's seriously tempting me away from the PPC field. Hell, if the screen was but a bit bigger, I'd dump my laptop... It's *that* good.

I totaly agree. I own UX50. to me is the greates PDA ever built. why? it's extremeply pocketable (size of hp 4150). has got wonderfull 480x320 landscape display, wifi, bluetooth, and most important very good keyboard. it's a pleasure to type on it. btw sony was the last reason why I'm still a POS user and why I will be never PPC user. PPCs are boring just the same design as old good palm V had. nothing new. and I wont definitely go for palmOne. software bundled and design is much worse then sony. all sony devices have magnesium alloy. even PPCs don't have such a thing (it only looks like it's metall, it's just a plastics ) => I don't need a hard case. the alloy is scrach resistant

btw some of "experts" here are saying that the PDA market is growing. what a fools are you.. shippings worldwide rose last year just 1%!!!! one per cent!!! which is nothing and a year before it actually felt. whereas the shpping of smartphones skyrocked by 260%.

btw. sony ericsson sold in europe only more of its old model (SE P800) then hp & palmone combine world wide. not to mention nokia sold 2 times more smartphones just in the last quarter then the whole PDA industry last year!!

got that? PDAs are dead. we are going to see merged devices like motorola MPx, i-mate, treo 600, nokia 9500, SE P900 etc etc

e.g. you can get i-mate here for free!! if you take a plan. i-mate2 will cost you like 200-300, which is a bargain! the cell phone operators simply subsidies all the cool stuff

[dazz]

Maybe Sony's problem has been that they had too many models available at the same time and were almost cutting their own sales.

If that was the case they would cut back on models, not withdraw from the market.

Well, I would certainly hope that would be the case but maybe they haven't identified that as the problem.

I kind of doubt they will leave the PDA market anyway. I think they may figure out some new direction but that might just mean they will consolodate their PDA and mobile phone lines to offer Treo-esque devices.

Just my guess.

[Steven Cedrone]

I just want to remind everyone to relax! We all have many opinions on this. If you disagree with someone, that's fine! I just don't want anyones emotions to get in the way of a great debate! Remember to be kind to your fellow Thoughts members!

Steve

[dh]

got that? PDAs are dead. we are going to see merged devices like motorola MPx, i-mate, treo 600, nokia 9500, SE P900 etc etc

I tend to agree. I think the current PDA, of which the tablet stlye PPCs are good examples, is going to decline and disappear.

However, I see this as good news, because I think they are going to be replaced by two better types of device.

One is the converged, PDA/Phone of which items like the Treo 600, SE P900 and the new Motorola are just the begining. The sad thing in this sector is that Handspring had the best product by far, but are likely to be beaten by the market power of the big guys MS and Nokia. I would like to see a larger company (Sony?) buy pa1mOne and really do something great with the Treo. If Sony did this, they could be a serious competitor to Nokia who I see walking away with it otherwise.

The second is a class of really portable powerful computers. Your UX50 and my C860 are examples of the kinds of form factors we will see more of. When (if?) the OQO and FlipStart (love the concept, hate that name) arrive they will be the next generation.

I see no point at all in anyone launching new PPCs with QVGA, 64MB, SD, four buttons......... Why?

[bjornkeizers]

I think it could go either way. We don't know what spectacular new designs and inventions will happen in the next five years or so. Fact is, for all we know, we might all be carrying PPC's with a holographic projection matrix, a terabyte of memory, a processor to rival any supercomputer out there, and it will even make a decent cup of Earl Grey - all that for the price of a Big Mac...

In the near future, I don't see PDA's dying off. While a tablet PC is nice, they also cost too much right now. If I could get a tablet PC for the price of a mid-range PPC, I'd get one. But right now, I don't want to pay the price of a laptop, for something without a keyboard, with a sucky battery life, and I can't put it in my pocket anyway. Now compare that to Sony's killer hardware right now - Yeah, I never get tired of bringing up my TH55 and whatshisnames UX50. Wifi, BT, high res screen... get yourself a decent IR keyboard like I have, and you have a fully functional laptop replacement in a package smaller then a videotape, with great battery life and connectivity.

[farnold]

I think it's much easier. After being tempted for a while to take over PalmOS and going into the OS market SONY realized that that is just not where they see their future. SONY was always extraordinary hardware gadgets and therefore they need a partner in the future that provides extraordinary software platform...

Is it difficult to conclude that this partner is not PALM or SYMBIAN?

[Vidge]

This news item made me register at this forum (after visiting for several days). I've never owned a PPC but have ordered the X30 (624). My current PDA is a Palm Tungsten T3, my 10th Palm OS PDA in the past 8 years.

Enough about me. :D Comments on the posts:

1. I believe the statistics show that the number of PDAs shipped over the past couple of years has actually decreased. So while I do not believe the market is dead by any means, I do think that it has reached a certain saturation point. Why? Because they are still (relatively) expensive (even with the low end models available on both Palm & PPC). I think the issue is that people dn't know how they will use a PDA and ths are reluctant to spend the money and have it be an expensive paperweight.

2. Lots of Clie users go back to Palm - I did. What drove me to Sony was the innovation. What drove me back to Palm was the innovation. Sony stagnated its development and ignored what users wanted for far too long. The TH55 is a great machine - and would have virtually toppled Palm had it been released a year earlier. By the time it came out, it brought little to the table that the T3 didn't already have. (The US model doesn't have BT.)

3. I really won't be surprised to see Sony leave the PDA market. In my limited Sony experience (I have several Sony computers and I had 1 Sony PDA), they have the tendency to do something and then abandon it. I think Sony has attention deficit disorder. I have a Sony desktop computer with an LCD monitor that you can write on with a special pen. Sony made 2 models - and then abandoned the idea. My roommate has a Sony computer with a built in mini-disc player & a bunch of other stuff. Can't get that stuff on a Sony computer today.

Don't get me wrong - Sony has some very nice products (heck, my T3 screen is made by Sony!) but the schrophrenic nature of the company leaves me baffled as to their success.

OTOH, I believe Sony getting out of the PDA market will hurt the overall market. Were it not for Sony's innovations, I doubt we'd be seeing the PDAs we have right now. (Now if they could get to work on the battery technology, we'd be set:D)

[ruarch5]

Sony get out of the PDA market....I doubt that veru much.
Maybe out of the Clie market.
Which OS out there can support Sony's unrivalled Hardware? Windows Mobile of course...Specifically SE. MS is finally ready to support those company's that push the edge. If any of u have the chance...check out a Toshiba e800 runnibg SE..with a beautiful beach backgound image for the desktop. It is Amazing. Then imagine hardware designed by Sony around that screen. I'm guessing thats the reason why VAIO no longer means just laptops. It's probably the strategic resolution to have a mobile division within the company with it's own identity...like walkman...?

Why would Sony get into a declining market? Because it's not. It's a new one.

[dh]

Which OS out there can support Sony's unrivalled Hardware? Windows Mobile of course...Specifically SE. MS is finally ready to support those company's that push the edge..
Why MS at all? I know it's not unusual for companies to compete in some areas and work together in others, but there has been no real history of MS and Sony getting along very well. Even though WM seems to be a bit more flexible these days, I'm sure it would still be wrong for an innovating company like Sony.

A better bet for Sony might be to work with someone like Trolltech (who are supposed to have some big anouncement in the near future by all acounts) and have them make a Qtopia flavored Linux OS for them. This way, Sony could have exactly what they want, wrapped around an OS that is far better than either the stripped down Windows in WM or the enhanced organizer of POS.

Obviously a Qtopia solution for Sony isn't going to be Open Source, but it would be the easiest way for them to get an OS that was as good as their hardware and it would probably be able to run a lot of existing apps as well.

Having said all that, I'm still inclined to believe that Sony simply decided there's not enough profit in PDAs and is going to move on to something else.

[marconelly]

Except for the simple fact that NO WORKING PROTOTYPES of the PSP exist and that NO PDA FUNCTIONALITY is at this point planned for the PSP.

At E3 all PSPs were simply controllers with an LCD screen running content of a PC behind a wall.
OH MY GOD whatever we'll do when they start selling those PSPs with a cable that connects them to a hidden PC!? 8O

Heh, I almost can't think of a gaming product that hasn't at one point been demoed the way they demoed PSP, so I really don't see what's the point of complaining about it.

[mangochutneyman]

Here's one reason why Sony might be leaving the PDA segment:

http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/newspics/8180/6.jpg
http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/newspics/8180/8.jpg

The Viao U is barely twice the size of the h2010! 8O

http://akiba.sorobangeeks.com/news_8180.html

[bjornkeizers]

1. I believe the statistics show that the number of PDAs shipped over the past couple of years has actually decreased. So while I do not believe the market is dead by any means, I do think that it has reached a certain saturation point. Why? Because they are still (relatively) expensive (even with the low end models available on both Palm & PPC). I think the issue is that people dn't know how they will use a PDA and ths are reluctant to spend the money and have it be an expensive paperweight.


Welcome Vidge. Yes and no. Cost doesn't really factor into this. It's more the lack of innovation and the worsening economy that's putting a dampener on sales. I have the money to upgrade, but it isn't worth it. I own an Ipaq 1915 as well, and there are no suitable devices in a good price range for me to upgrade. Sure, I could get a Toshiba Esomething, with the VGA screen, but it'd cost three times as much, and it isn't really innovative anyway. It's, literally, an upgrade.


The TH55 is a great machine - and would have virtually toppled Palm had it been released a year earlier. By the time it came out, it brought little to the table that the T3 didn't already have. (The US model doesn't have BT.)


It's a great device! It beats the snot out of everything Palm has, except in the processor field. But, I can forgive that because of the supposedly 10 hour battery life - I say supposedly, because I can go two full days without a charge, and that's with backlight half brightness, and WiFi on most of the day, listening to a shoutcast stream with the screen off. Can your T3 do that? :D Nope, because your T3 doesn't have WiFi. Nor does it have a camera for that matter. Show me a Palm with BT, WiFi, 320x480 and a camera all in one, and I'll eat my Clie.


3. I really won't be surprised to see Sony leave the PDA market. In my limited Sony experience (I have several Sony computers and I had 1 Sony PDA), they have the tendency to do something and then abandon it. I think Sony has attention deficit disorder.


Indeed. Sony releases new stuff at an alarming pace. You buy a device now, they'll have a new one out there in 5 months, with a ton more features at twice the price - and you still buy it, don't you? :D


OTOH, I believe Sony getting out of the PDA market will hurt the overall market. Were it not for Sony's innovations, I doubt we'd be seeing the PDAs we have right now. (Now if they could get to work on the battery technology, we'd be set:D)

Definitely. If Sony got out of the PDA market, there really wouldn't be anything keeping me in the Palm OS camp. Sony makes killer hardware, and without that, Palm OS can't survive on its own merits.

[Fishie]

Except for the simple fact that NO WORKING PROTOTYPES of the PSP exist and that NO PDA FUNCTIONALITY is at this point planned for the PSP.

At E3 all PSPs were simply controllers with an LCD screen running content of a PC behind a wall.
OH MY GOD whatever we'll do when they start selling those PSPs with a cable that connects them to a hidden PC!? 8O

Heh, I almost can't think of a gaming product that hasn't at one point been demoed the way they demoed PSP, so I really don't see what's the point of complaining about it.

Hey dude, when did you get here?

[billbuckner]

:nonono:

Anyway, if Sony left, would anyone step up to make Palm PDAs other than Pa1m0ne?

[whydidnt]

It wouldn't suprise me if they have decided to exit the market. We sure haven't heard of any rumored upgrades to the UX line, which is out of character for Sony.

Sony may be sitting there saying - look, we have killer hardware, the most innovative designs, etc... but have only been able to capture a very small percentage of the market. They may have decided they couldn't win in this market. My opinion is that depite the most innovative designs they have shot themselves in the foot way too many times: The fact they use Memory stick, the fact that they don't include a lot of RAM, even in high end models, the lack of follow through on committed Memory stick peripherals.

For example - the TH55 sounds like a very nice machine, but I won't own a PDA without Bluetooth anymore. Why did they leave it out of the US model? Not only that they quit selling the Bluetooth Memory Stick, so basically they've told me - don't buy our machine, you're not sophisticated enough to deal with bluetooth. Not to mention they still only provide 32 MB RAM, when Palm has been delivering 64 MB devices for over a year now.

I think it will be bad for the PDA market if they do decide to leave, but I also think another manufacturer will step into the void, and try to deliver the same type of machines to capture the market Sony had.

[Vidge]

The TH55 is a great machine - and would have virtually toppled Palm had it been released a year earlier. By the time it came out, it brought little to the table that the T3 didn't already have. (The US model doesn't have BT.)


It's a great device! It beats the snot out of everything Palm has, except in the processor field. But, I can forgive that because of the supposedly 10 hour battery life - I say supposedly, because I can go two full days without a charge, and that's with backlight half brightness, and WiFi on most of the day, listening to a shoutcast stream with the screen off. Can your T3 do that? :D Nope, because your T3 doesn't have WiFi. Nor does it have a camera for that matter. Show me a Palm with BT, WiFi, 320x480 and a camera all in one, and I'll eat my Clie.

Well, as I originally pointed out, the US model of the TH55 does not have BT. And yes, I do have Wifi for my T3 - I use the Enfora Portfolio, but that's just because I have a Wifi network at home. Where I live, Wifi virtually doesn't exist; thus the need for BT. And I'd rather have the 400mhz processor over Sony's handheld engine anyday, not to mention landscape mode and 64 meg memory. In any event, choice is good. The TH55 fits your needs and the T3 fits mine.


Indeed. Sony releases new stuff at an alarming pace. You buy a device now, they'll have a new one out there in 5 months, with a ton more features at twice the price - and you still buy it, don't you? :D

Actually, Sony releases new devices that have more features at the same price as the old ones. Look at the NR70V vs the NX70.

If Sony got out of the PDA market, there really wouldn't be anything keeping me in the Palm OS camp. Sony makes killer hardware, and without that, Palm OS can't survive on its own merits.

I believe Palm can survive, but it will become the Mac of PDAs, which is unfortunate.

[Vidge]

It wouldn't suprise me if they have decided to exit the market. We sure haven't heard of any rumored upgrades to the UX line, which is out of character for Sony.

Sony may be sitting there saying - look, we have killer hardware, the most innovative designs, etc... but have only been able to capture a very small percentage of the market. They may have decided they couldn't win in this market. My opinion is that depite the most innovative designs they have shot themselves in the foot way too many times: The fact they use Memory stick, the fact that they don't include a lot of RAM, even in high end models, the lack of follow through on committed Memory stick peripherals.

For example - the TH55 sounds like a very nice machine, but I won't own a PDA without Bluetooth anymore. Why did they leave it out of the US model? Not only that they quit selling the Bluetooth Memory Stick, so basically they've told me - don't buy our machine, you're not sophisticated enough to deal with bluetooth. Not to mention they still only provide 32 MB RAM, when Palm has been delivering 64 MB devices for over a year now.

I think it will be bad for the PDA market if they do decide to leave, but I also think another manufacturer will step into the void, and try to deliver the same type of machines to capture the market Sony had.

You said a lot of things that I meant to put in my posts and I totally agree.

[bjornkeizers]

[
And yes, I do have Wifi for my T3 - I use the Enfora Portfolio


Wow, I didn't even know there was such a thing. I had to google it to find out what it was. (ugliest case out there with built in 802.11b, connecting to some palm models with a wired connecter)

Would this be a bad time to point out that it costs $150, it's a wired attachment, it adds bulk, and it won't exactly help your love life, if you know what I mean? Just saying :D


I believe Palm can survive, but it will become the Mac of PDAs, which is unfortunate.

They aren't iinnovating over there. It can't even multitask right now, and it'll be a wait and see affair with OS6. Couple that with the boring Palm hardware, and you got a recipe for disaster in the long run.



For example - the TH55 sounds like a very nice machine, but I won't own a PDA without Bluetooth anymore. Why did they leave it out of the US model? Not only that they quit selling the Bluetooth Memory Stick, so basically they've told me - don't buy our machine, you're not sophisticated enough to deal with bluetooth. Not to mention they still only provide 32 MB RAM, when Palm has been delivering 64 MB devices for over a year now.


Yeah, I can't think of a reason not to sell the BT model over there - except that you don't have all that many great phones anyway. *points at americans and starts laughing* Besides, BT is on the way out, IMO. The 32 mb ram doesn't bother me really. Most of us use a memory card anyway, and prefer to keep the internal ram free to run programs - I certainly do.

[Vidge]

Would this be a bad time to point out that it costs $150, it's a wired attachment, it adds bulk, and it won't exactly help your love life, if you know what I mean? Just saying :D

I notice that you didn't address anything about the lack of processor speed or the lack of landscape mode. Again, the Th55 may fit your needs but falls short for mine.


They aren't iinnovating over there. It can't even multitask right now, and it'll be a wait and see affair with OS6. Couple that with the boring Palm hardware, and you got a recipe for disaster in the long run.

Multlitasking is an operating systems issue, not a hardware issue. So you are mixing apples and oranges. Sony can't come out with multitasking any more than PalmOne can - they are hardware manufacturers, not operating systems. And multitasking is a part of OS6.

Yeah, I can't think of a reason not to sell the BT model over there - except that you don't have all that many great phones anyway. *points at americans and starts laughing*

And what a childish thing to say, as if we individuals have some control over the products in the market.

The 32 mb ram doesn't bother me really. Most of us use a memory card anyway, and prefer to keep the internal ram free to run programs - I certainly do.

You can't miss what you've never had :p. Programs run faster from RAM than they do from an external card. (Oh - that's right - you can't go very fast, can you? What's that? 123 mhz tops?)

I use my T3 (and expect to be able to do the same with my X30) as a laptop replacement. I need the memory.

[bjornkeizers]

I notice that you didn't address anything about the lack of processor speed or the lack of landscape mode. Again, the Th55 may fit your needs but falls short for mine.



I mentioned it twice in fact. Not that it bother me. Its really a business machine, and I dont play much except bejewelled.


Multlitasking is an operating systems issue, not a hardware issue. So you are mixing apples and oranges. Sony can't come out with multitasking any more than PalmOne can - they are hardware manufacturers, not operating systems. And multitasking is a part of OS6.


YOU brought up the palm os. I wasnt talking hardware. Read my post.



And what a childish thing to say, as if we individuals have some control over the products in the market.



Just having a bit of fun, dont frak out on your first day here ;-)

[marconelly]

Hey dude, when did you get here?
I registered long time ago, but I post very rarely. I'm a big fan of Pocket PCs, btw. Even developed some stuff for them (MAMEBoy, for Casio MIPS PPCs, and helped on UI for PocketC64)

[Fishie]

Hey dude, when did you get here?
I registered long time ago, but I post very rarely. I'm a big fan of Pocket PCs, btw. Even developed some stuff for them (MAMEBoy, for Casio MIPS PPCs, and helped on UI for PocketC64)

I had no idea.

We still have to meet up BTW.

Oh and I love my Toshiba e800.

^_^

[theone3]

What do you think? Are the rumors true? Will PalmOne be the only real customer of PalmSource? We are supposed to see an official announcement some time next week.Wrongo. Acer, Samsung and Tapwave (and Fossil?) will still use PalmOS.

[Fishie]

What do you think? Are the rumors true? Will PalmOne be the only real customer of PalmSource? We are supposed to see an official announcement some time next week.Wrongo. Acer, Samsung and Tapwave (and Fossil?) will still use PalmOS.

Dont forget Symbol and a few Chinese companies as well.

[mangochutneyman]

DOH!! 8O :( BargainPDA is reporting that Sony is leaving the Clie...in North America anyway...

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2082

This is bad news for PalmOS and the whole PDA industry in general...

[davea0511]

Sony deserves to take it in the shorts for their blasted memory stick product.

Next time Sony comes out with something better than anything else on the market, that's proprietary, I have just one word to say:

Beta max.

As far as I'm concerned sony can bite the wall for all that proprietary junk they do to screw their customers over in the long run for a quick extra buck. What a bunch of dirt bags.

[Fishie]

Sony deserves to take it in the shorts for their blasted memory stick product.

Next time Sony comes out with something better than anything else on the market, that's proprietary, I have just one word to say:

Beta max.

As far as I'm concerned sony can bite the wall for all that proprietary junk they do to screw their customers over in the long run for a quick extra buck. What a bunch of dirt bags.

Last month I was in LA covering E3 for broadcast TV, guess what format was dominantly used for pre recorded footage by me as well as other broadcast networks, yup Betamax and betadigit.

[Steve Jordan]

Sony is following the natural evolution of the PDA: to a fully functional, portable personal computer (maybe we'll call it the FFPPC). (Well, probably not.) The VAIO U70 and OQO are only the first examples of the computer becoming a device you carry with you at all times, like a wallet, interfacing with desktop stations, other devices and peripherals (probably) wirelessly as desired. Being able to carry all your data, apps, everything, with you at all times will really simplify mobile computer/multiple computer use.

The PDA market is practically saturated, and with smartphones coming out, there is less of a reason to have a separate PDA. In fact, if a smartphone could wirelessly communicate addresses with a FFPPC in your pocket, who'd need a PDA? Or, for that matter, all the other things being crammed into a smartphone? Let the phone be a phone, and the computer in your pocket can do the rest.

I'm looking forward to the next step in computer evolution. Heck, I'd buy one today if the price point was below $500, and ditch my laptop. And if anyone can figure out how to bring the price of such a device down to $500, it's Sony.

[Fishie]

Sony is following the natural evolution of the PDA: to a fully functional, portable personal computer (maybe we'll call it the FFPPC). (Well, probably not.) The VAIO U70 and OQO are only the first examples of the computer becoming a device you carry with you at all times, like a wallet, interfacing with desktop stations, other devices and peripherals (probably) wirelessly as desired. Being able to carry all your data, apps, everything, with you at all times will really simplify mobile computer/multiple computer use.

The PDA market is practically saturated, and with smartphones coming out, there is less of a reason to have a separate PDA. In fact, if a smartphone could wirelessly communicate addresses with a FFPPC in your pocket, who'd need a PDA? Or, for that matter, all the other things being crammed into a smartphone? Let the phone be a phone, and the computer in your pocket can do the rest.

I'm looking forward to the next step in computer evolution. Heck, I'd buy one today if the price point was below $500, and ditch my laptop. And if anyone can figure out how to bring the price of such a device down to $500, it's Sony.

Stop believing in fairy tales, Sony makes mid end devices which they try to pawn of at high end prices.