Here we go again - Looking for Laptop Advice

[shawnc]

OK folks, I really like my Toshiba Satellite with one (maybe two) exceptions. It's a little larger than I would like (7 lbs) and no integrated wireless (G-card).

I've spent considerable time over the past 3 days researching what to buy (I have actually set up CNET reviews as a web page favorite). Here is what I want and I'm looking for suggestions from the gallery.

Internal Wireless G (no cards or B)
Lightweight (prefer around 3 lbs or less) though willing to go as high as 4 lbs for the right machine
Would really prefer integrated SD drive and absolutely do NOT want integrated floppy.
CD-RW/DVD optical drive. Don't feel strongly either way about internal vs external
Hard drive size not that important, though I don't want to go less than 30GB
Centrino Mobile (I guess, don't really understand the significance of this)
Battery life not that important. If I can get 2 hours on the right machine, I'll take it.

It looks like it's going to be the Dell 300M though I really like the Toshiba Portege R100. Problem with the Toshiba is that it is wireless B. I also like the Gateway 200X but at 4.4 lbs, it's a little heavier than I'm looking for.

Lastly, I would like to be around $1,500 though I'm willing to go a little higher.

Any help/advice is appreciated.

[Zack Mahdavi]

I'm a big fan of the IBM Thinkpads (next to Powerbooks, of course.. :) ), but they are slightly more expensive. However, they are generally more reliable and are built a lot better.

The X Series (http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=-840&storeId=1&langId=-1&dualCurrId=73&categoryId=2072542) matches up mostly with what you are looking for.

For $1499, you get...
1 Ghz Pentium M
256MB RAM / 20GB hard drive
Integrated 802.11b
12.1" display
Weight: 2.7 pounds
No optical drive, but you could get an external

You can also find some really good deals on refurbished Thinkpads at IBM's eBay store. They come with full warranties.

Hope this helps... :)

[shawnc]

zkmusa,

V-E-R-Y helpful, However. one of my main requirements is 802.11G. It appears as though this entire line only comes with "B".

Thanx anyway for the tip.

UPDATE - Apparently this line is available with "G". I'm going to do some more research as I really like this line.

Thanx again.

[The Yaz]

Don't buy without looking at the Fujitsu Lifebooks

http://webshop.fujitsupc.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=P5D

They are small, have "g", decent battery life, and even have the modular bay for extended battery life.

Base starts at $1,500.

Good luck,

Steve 8)

[ignar]

Fujitsu P7000 series is rumored to be available by the end of June. Also S7000 series gets an update and worth a look.

[shawnc]

ignar - thanx for the info. This is similar to the Dell in specs but a little heavier (3.3oz v 3.0oz). When you add the optical drive to the Fujitsu, the Dell seems to be the better value.

Thanx to all for the help. I have one final question - if I go with the Dell, I can pay $150 for a DVD burner (as opposed to the CDRW-DVD drive). I don't terribly mind the extra $150 if it's worth it. I'm just not sure what one would do with a DVD burner. With a CD burner, I can make copies and listen to them in the car or rip to SD card and listen to on the Ipaq. What do you do with a DVD burner? I have some old VHS tapes that I would love to convert to DVD, but how do you hook up the VCR to the laptop? Is this even possible?

I would rather pay the $150 if I will get some use out of this. Since I plan on keeping this laptop for a few years, I don't want to miss out on something that is about to become pretty popular. On the flip-side, I surely don't want to pay $150 for a technology looking for an application.

Again, opinions are appreciated.

[Kati Compton]

Keep in mind listed weights are usually without the optical drive in the bay, sometimes without even battery! Make sure you read the fine print. :(

[shawnc]

OK, I went with the Dell w/o DVD burner. Thanx again to all who posted. It's always nice to know your options and I feel much better about my purchase now that I know my research was thorough.

But I do have ONE rant! Before deciding to purchase, I needed that extra incentive. I just wanted to read a reveiw in addition to CNET's (you will be surprised to know how difficult this search was). Went to Google and put in something like "Dell laptop reviews". The first hit I got was for a sight that had "Coupons". It listed a promotional code that I could use to get an additional 20% off of my laptop. I'm thinking "yeah, right", like thats really going to work. Guess what, it did! I spend two minutes and saved an additional $200. WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH THESE MANUFACTURERS! JUST GIVE ME THE BEST PRICE :evil: ! Can you imagine how pissed I would have been had I found out about this little scheme AFTER making my purchase. I would have NEVER purchased another item from Dell. I would have felt very taken advantage of. I didn't do anything to earn that $200. Just got lucky. Of course, I took the discount. I mean c'mon, I'm no fool :D !

Oh well, check the buy/sell section of this forum. I'm putting my Toshiba laptop for sale prior to listing it on ebay. It really is a sweet machine, just to heavy for my taste. Though it's considered lightweight for a true P-4 desktop replacement at less than 7lbs. Probably going to try to get $800 for it prior to listing it on ebay. Then it goes to $900-$1,000. I paid around $1,800 less than a year ago. PM me for more info or wait until I post the spec on this forum later today.

Again, thanx for all the help.

[tanalasta]

Well, good luck selling your Toshiba! Dell's make fairly decent machines. Whilst it is a bit late now, I can also put in a good word for Fujitsu for anybody else interested. Toshiba's also make some of the thinnest and most beautiful Pentium-M laptops out there.

As for integrated wireless, my brother has a centrino with 802.11b. Don't let that stop you buying a laptop as it only costs $50US to buy either a USB (better - you can use it on your desktop too!) or PCMCIA 802.11g card.

[js415]

Shawn,

Please contact me about your toshiba.

Thanks,

Jerry

[shawnc]

Well folks, just figured I'd follow-up for those who may be interested. I've had the Dell for a few days now and here are my first thoughts:

Looks - only average. Actually I don't like the bid Dell logo on the top of the machine. Nor do I like the blue/silver mix. The Toshiba looks MUCH better with all Blue. Also, I almost selected the Sharp soley on looks. I don't know, the black and silver makes the Sharp look both professional and sleek.


Wireless G - I have not noticed a reduction in performance from my Toshiba (lynksys wireless G card). It is AMAZING how easy it was to "set-up". Turned the darn thing on, in two minutes it recognized my router and set itself up. Been working ever since.

Keyboard - definitely will take some getting used to. I find myself having to look for keys whereas with the Toshiba that was not necessary. My fingers are probably about average so anyone looking looking at an ultra-portable will likely have this problem. It doesn't affect most of my typing, only when I need to find the "End", "Home", or "Delete" keys (which with my typing skills is more often that I would like to admit).

Portability - OH MAN! This is where the Dell shines. At 2.9 lbs, it is an absolute joy to pick up and take to the can, or from room to room (I have a desk set-up where I do my school work when I'm not cheating and watching TV in the living room).

Screen - this also took some getting used to. My toshiba had a 14 inch screen and the dell as 12 inch one. I didn't realize how much of a difference those 2 inches would make. Some of the ultra portables have 10 inch screens. Anyone who is working off of a desktop will have difficulty adjusting to anything less than 12 inches (IMO). But it is a beautiful screen. Nice and very bright.

Optical drive - I thought I wouldn't mind the external, but now I'm not so sure. On the bus ride home from work yesterday, I wanted to show off my new toy and plop in a DVD. The only reason I didn't is because I didn't feel like dealing with the hassle of connecting the drive. That can't be good! The problem is how much additional weight am I willing to accept for this convenience? 3 lbs was really my sweet-spot. I don't think I was willing to go as high as 4 lbs but in retrospect if I could find an internal drive at 3.5lbs, for the right price, I would recommend that route.

Customer Service - the beauty of all the negative publicity dell is getting these days is that you can see they are making a concerted effort to step up. I have had to call twice and both times I was quite pleased with how I was treated (though keep in mind that my questions were probably much less technical than most of the members of this community would be). I did get routed to India (I think, based on the accent) both times, but the people were pleasant and knowledgable (again, my questions were very basic). Overall, so far I'm pleased.

Battery - about what I expected. Roughly two hours. Anyone expecting more out of a subnotebook is kidding themselves.

Performance - bottom line is this machine does not perform like my toshiba P-4 laptop, but I didn't expect it to. For what I need (email, web surfing, and school requirements) this machine has performed exceptionally over the past few days.

Value - there are some better looking machines out there (sharp, toshiba, overpriced sony's) that weigh less than 3 lbs. But for the memory, hard drive size, and feature set that dell offers, I think this is the best deal. I think I'll keep it :wink: .

[ignar]

Thanks for the update. I think battery life can be better since there are a few sub notebooks which last 4 to 5 hours, and I think battery life is even more important for small notebooks whose top priority is portability. But, I guess you can get an extra or larger batteries if you need them.
Enjoy your new toy. :D

[shawnc]

Good point ignar. I think battery life is probably more important for those who travel and don't want to take an AC adapter (which BTW, the dell adapter is horrible, just horrible).

I don't travel much so I'm always near an electrical outlet. I run down the battery and simply plug in if I'm not done. You are right though, I did see ultras with significantly longer battery life, though I'm not sure that they would come in at 3 to 3.5 lbs.

[Kati Compton]

FYI - this doesn't cover all CD needs, but one thing I do is use Daemon Tools (google to find it), and rip my most-needed CDROMs (all purchased) to images that could be "mounted" with that program. Doesn't work for everything, but a lot of things. I did this when I was using my Sony that didn't have a drive, and then also on my current laptop when I don't want to bring my original CDROMs with me when I travel. It also saves battery life.

Now, it won't help for the situation you just mentioned, wanting to pop in a DVD, but it can be useful nonetheless.

[Zack Mahdavi]

Congrats on your purchase Shawn. I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I'd expect more power out of your batteries. Was your screen on full brightness at the time ?

[shawnc]

Congrats on your purchase Shawn. I'm sure you'll be happy with it. I'd expect more power out of your batteries. Was your screen on full brightness at the time ?

Thanx Zack. Yeah, I always had the screen on full brightness. That way I don't notice a drop-off from the Toshiba I just sold.

But everyone hold the phone! I think I'm sending it back (yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking :oops: ) but the lack of internal drive is bothering me a little more than I anticipated. Also, since I've never seen or used one before, the drop from a 14 to a 12 inch screen has proven to be more dramatic than I thought (though I PROBABLY could have lived with the screen if the lack of internal optical didn't bother me more than I thought).

Just ordered the Gateway 200X so I'll be packing up the Dell and shipping it back. But I've got nothing bad to say about the 300M. It's performance exceeded my expectations and the portability factor is tough to beat. Anyone who can live with the smaller screen and lack of internal drive would be well advised to give this sweet machine a look.

The Gateway is 4.5 lbs, which is a little heavier than I had hoped for. But get this, the height is slightly less than 1 inch, the same as the Dell. Thinness is DEFINIETLY important to me and it shows me that the added weight is in the internal optical and extra screen size. The specs (memory, HD, etc) are more impressive than the Dell. Screen size is 14 inches. What's the catch? Anyone who has ever ordered from Gateway already knows. Their order process is brutal, just brutal. And it takes them two weeks to ship a product that is already configured and in stock. Dell shipped in one week and they had to build the darn thing. All I can say is get your Gateways soon because no way they survive with their current business model. Just to d**n inefficient.

But the reviews were great (even better than that of the Dell), though I've heard that Geteway has some quality issues. Hopefully that won't be the case with me, but I'll probably get the extended warranty just to be safe.

I'll post back a couple of weeks after playing with the Gateway with an update.

[Kati Compton]

The Gateway is 4.5 lbs, which is a little heavier than I had hoped for. But get this, the height is slightly less than 1 inch, the same as the Dell. Thinness is DEFINIETLY important to me and it shows me that the added weight is in the internal optical and extra screen size.
Well, if you don't like the Gateway, take a look at the IBM T40. It's what I have, and it's fantastic.

[shawnc]

The Gateway is 4.5 lbs, which is a little heavier than I had hoped for. But get this, the height is slightly less than 1 inch, the same as the Dell. Thinness is DEFINIETLY important to me and it shows me that the added weight is in the internal optical and extra screen size.
Well, if you don't like the Gateway, take a look at the IBM T40. It's what I have, and it's fantastic.

Kati, that's exactly what I planned to do. I was trying to keep this purchase at less than $1,500 and the T40 will take me over that. But I've convinced myself that I'm going to keep whatever I end up with for a few years, so if I have to spend an extra couple of hundred, that is what I'll do. The T40 is such a sweet machine and if money was not an issue, that would have been my first choice from the get-go!

[Kati Compton]

Kati, that's exactly what I planned to do. I was trying to keep this purchase at less than $1,500 and the T40 will take me over that. But I've convinced myself that I'm going to keep whatever I end up with for a few years, so if I have to spend an extra couple of hundred, that is what I'll do. The T40 is such a sweet machine and if money was not an issue, that would have been my first choice from the get-go!

Yeah - IBMs are pretty pricey. This setup cost me $2500, and that was academic pricing. 8O

[Skoobouy]

Wait Shawn! I've got something for ya!

Someone pointed me in the direction of the Asus M5N, so I examined it, and it looks like the ideal machine. Definitely destined to be my iPaq h1930 replacement. Here's a post I already wrote in a different forum:

www.1toppc.com (http://1toppc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Notebook) has hugely configureable Asus notebooks. There's the S5N (and S5Ne) which are 12" screen < 1" thick ultraportables. There's also the M5N which is 3.4 lbs, about 1" thick, has a built-in optical drive.

The first cool thing is all of the options. You start with a "barebones" and add whatever you want. You can get the S5Ne (no optical drive) with a ULV P-M 1GHz (if battery life is your priority), or else get the standard M5N with a P-M 1.5-1.7GHz. You choose RAM size (256-768MB) HDD (40-80GB at variable speeds), OS (XPH or XPP), optical drive, etc.

The second cool thing is the prices, which are very low. Here's the config I want:

M5200-N Asus M5N/M5200N Centrino Notebook
12.1 inch XGA
512MB RAM
Internal CDRW+DVD
Modem/Lan/Card Reader
Windows XP Home
40GB 9.5mm 5400rpm
Intel Centrino 1.7 GHz
Built-in 802.11b wireless network
Standard Warranty

('Free') Deluxe Carrying Case
Extra Primary Battery 72 Whr

3.4 lbs with the standard battery
10.8" x 9.2" x 0.8" (thinnest point)-1.2" (thickest) thick

Price is $1602 (Free ground shipping)

[Shawn, you could easily get the price under $1500 by choosing a lower clock speed, or going with 256MB of RAM, or a smaller HD. I won't tell you to forego the hi-capacity battery though--you'll need it].

Not bad, eh?

www.1toppc.com doesn't sell the S5N (without the 'e'), but ProPortable does. They're more expensive though.

I found two very good threads with user-impressions (stuff like build-quality)

For the Asus S5N and S5Ne (http://www.leog.net/fujp_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4078) and the M5N (http://www.leog.net/fujp_forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4766) (optical drive model).

The only bad thing about this is that I didn't see an option for built-in Wireless G.

I had done some research on the Dell 300M too, and it turns out there's a funky issue with the LCD. Apparently, 300M's are popping up all over the place with "smiley face" screen artifacts. It's been established that there's an issue with the construction of the screen/lid. Supposedly, all units have it, but on most it's unnoticeable. That would drive me nuts just thinking about it--I wasn't going to tell you unless you discovered it for yourself. (If you're anything like me, you would go looking for it if you knew about it).

[shawnc]

You're KILLIN me skoobuoy :wink: . Actually this is a pretty good option and I'm going to do some more digging. That's pretty weird about the 300M. I appreciate you not mentioning when it looked like that was going to be my choice.

I've got a couple of weeks before the Gateway ships :evil: , so I'm going to continue to do some comparision shopping. Believe it or not, I'm STRONGLY considering the Fujitsu S6210 (I think) that The Yaz suggested back in the beginning of this thread. Back when he suggested it, I was really fixated on external optical. Now that I've decided to go internal, the Fujitsu is getting serious consideration.

I am just a mess! You should see the private joy my wife is taking in all of this indecision.

Thanx again.

[maximus]

How about this, for less than $1000 :

http://www20.tomshardware.com/mobile/20040610/index.html

It is using athlon XP mobile though.

or this, with integrated SD/MMC reader :

http://usa.twinhead.com/PRO/N23PB/

[shawnc]

Maximus,

Thanx for the link. I think I'm going centrino. The averatec has anthlon.

[shawnc]

I'm back to revive the thread that just won't die. I promised to post back with my ultimate decision and let me tell you, it has been a l-o-n-g road traveled to finally get here.

I ended up with the Fujitsu S6210. First, the obvious. THERE SIMPLY IS NO PERFECT MACHINE OUT THERE! It doesn't matter if you're looking for a PPC or laptop, there are always comprise(s). You may THINK that if you do thorough research that you will find the perfect machine but you would be wrong. With the S6210, my comprimise is that the machine is a little thicker, and maybe heavier, than I would like. Other than that, it is the perfect blend between the Toshiba I just sold and the 300M that I just sent back to Dell.. After having the Dell for a couple of weeks, I was really beginning to get attached to it. I was even getting used to the 12 inch screen. The thing I couldn't get used to (and this is my own fault because I thought it would be ok) was the external optical. But in terms of portability and performance, I really recommend the Dell.

Now for the 6210. Man.... this screen is incredible. They have something they refer to as Clear-view technology that I just assumed was a marketing gimmick. Trust me, it's not! I can't describe it other than to say it's almost like looking at crystal clear glass (without the glare or reflection). After a couple of weeks of typing on the Dell, its nice to go back to the full size keyboard of the fujitsu. I won't bore you with all the details, but there are a lot of little touches in the fujitsu that didn't factor into my buying decision, but are nice to have. And with a 13 inch screen, it is the perfect size for functionality and portability.

Well, that's all. Sincere thanks to everyone who posted with suggestions and help.

[ignar]

Shawnc, thanks for the updates and I am glad to hear you finally found what you wanted. I think you made a great decision. I've had a couple of Fujitsu laptops before, and I was very impressed both times. I also recommended Fujitsu to a few of my friends and they all seem to like it. Actually one of my friends got a S6000 series this year though it didn't have a clear view screen. So yours must be a recently updated model. Buying a laptop is never easy. I'm also kind of in the market for a new laptop too though I'm looking for a desktop replacement. My current favorite is Asus M6N, but my mind changes almost daily. :) I totally agree with you in that an internal optical drive is a must. I once had a laptop using an external drive, and I swore that I would never buy a laptop without ODD built-in. You don't really understand the value of internal ODD until you use a laptop without one. About the screen, 13" is a bit odd size. I'd go for XGA on 12" for less weight or SXGA on 14" for higher resolution. If Fujitsu releases a S series with higher resolution screen, I will seriously consider getting one.

[shawnc]

Shawnc, thanks for the updates and I am glad to hear you finally found what you wanted. I think you made a great decision. I've had a couple of Fujitsu laptops before, and I was very impressed both times. I also recommended Fujitsu to a few of my friends and they all seem to like it. Actually one of my friends got a S6000 series this year though it didn't have a clear view screen.

Thanx ignar. The 6210 updates the 6120, which is what you're friend probably got because the clear view just got introduced with the 6210.


Buying a laptop is never easy. I'm also kind of in the market for a new laptop too though I'm looking for a desktop replacement. My current favorite is Asus M6N, but my mind changes almost daily. :)

Believe me, I totally understand. Good luck.


I totally agree with you in that an internal optical drive is a must. I once had a laptop using an external drive, and I swore that I would never buy a laptop without ODD built-in. You don't really understand the value of internal ODD until you use a laptop without one.

This is so true. I actually thought I PREFERRED the external thinking that size was the overriding consideration. I quickly realized how wrong I was. Internal is definitely a must.

I also agree that the 13" seems odd but it actually works out really good because it gives the laptop a much better feel of portability. I must confess that I don't really know the significance of XGA or SXGA. The 12" was fine but I could not go any smaller.

Good luck!

[Skoobouy]

Wow, congratulations Shawnc! I recently saw a Fujy S6000 (a guest in my little community had one) and they are sweet machines. In fact, I'm tempted to think that Fujy just builds darn good laptops.

I'm still waiting anxiously for a Fujy P1000 update. If there's nothing before August, then I'll... just keep looking. Unlike some of the above posters, I don't need an ODD because I'm coming up from a PDA rather than down from a computer. I'm soured on PPC limitations and would much rather have something super-portable which can just do everything, no compromises. Unfortunately, the current P1000 is just too slow (I want some modest games, too). *sigh* I'm so tired of waiting.

[shawnc]

Skoobuoy,

I was struggling with whether to buy the extended warranty or not. I had a converstaion with a fujy rep and she pointed to me that someone tracks and reports the percentage of laptops returned for repair during the 1st year of ownership. She indicated that the return rate of some manufacturers was as high as 29%. She said the average was around 22% and the fujitsu rate was 7%. She was very bullish (as expected) on the impact of fujitsu having their own manufacturing facilities in Japan. No manufacturing or buiding in countries like korea or china.

I can imagine how tough the waiting is but be patient, it will pay off in the end.

Let me just point out one thing to you. From my experience with the PPC, there are always things that initially don't seem important. But the more you use the machine, the more you want to do with it. What may not seem important now may become very important in a few months.

Having said that, if you are certain that internal optical is not important then I would seriously consider the 300M. It was just soooo lightweight and the centrino chip gave it plenty of juice. The main caveat, battery life absolutely sucks. Other than that, a great machine.

Good luck.

[substring]

I have the Dell 600M and I am very happy about it. It is Centrino with 802.11b. But you can buy the 802.11g card online (not from Dell of course) and swap it yourself.... much much much cheaper that way.

The 600M is thin and lightweight... under 5lb. It also come with the CDRW+DVD Rom combo drive, free of charge. I added a few upgrades.... Win XP Pro (I hate Home edition), SXGA, bigger hard-drive. With all of that, I paid just under $1400. The best value for the money!!!!