Opinions on Mini Disc Players

[jbachandouris]

I do not have a huge CD collection, so I don't really 'need' a hard drive based solution.

1 mini-disc=5 CDs. New Mini-disc player $99 w/1 disc, 5-pack $9.99. Total storage=30 CDs. The price is right, but hard drive based players have more uses. Any opinions?

[Jason Dunn]

I don't have a MD player, so I don't have an opinion, but you might also want to post this over at www.digitalmediathoughts.com if you're looking for some input.

[tanalasta]

Minidisc players are now out of vogue but if you desire a small, portable device and do not wish to purchase the obvious alternative (recordable mp3 players with flash disks/hard drive memory) then they would be most suitable to your needs.

The only disadvantage, apart from the fact they're no longer as popular as they used to be is that you will have to transfer your songs onto the proprietary minidisc. You cannot transfer songs from minidisc back to your computer but you can rewrite/reorganise the discs.

Portability is not really an issue as both HDD, flash and MD's are the same size. Flash players are much smaller but expensive. As are memory cards.

You won't regret buying a minidisc unless you really really envy the more expensive hard-drive options (e.g. iPod) out there! Sound quality with minidisc players are acceptable, with the top-end Sharp and Sony models providing the best sound. Albeit you will have to buy yourself a decent pair of headphones as stock standard buds are terrible.

[Darius Wey]

You cannot transfer songs from minidisc back to your computer but you can rewrite/reorganise the discs.

As a matter of fact, you can. NetMD technology, which has been around for a while now allows you to transfer MP3s/WMAs/WAVs back and forth from the computer to MD recorder up to 64x the normal speed.

Existing MDLP technology allows you to record in long play mode 2x or 4x the capacity of the standard length of the disc. That's a potential 320 minutes per 80 minute disc.

There is a new technology known as Hi-MD that is to debut very shortly, so keep your eyes peeled. The technology is astounding. You can read more about it here: http://www.sony.co.jp/Products/Hi-MD/nf_index.html (in Japanese) or here: http://www.minidisct.com/md.php (to see the range of recorders - this is in English)

Sound quality with minidisc players are acceptable

The way MD works is that it only records the 1's and 0's that are audible to the human ear. Of course, decent headphones help, but overall, they rival most other audio technologies.


So what else about MDs?
Battery life is very good on the decent models, and it makes it very suitable for recording lectures, meetings, etc.
Blank MDs are dirt cheap - you can pick up a Sony 80 minute blank MD from their wide range of types for abt A$1.50 a pop if you shop around.

The list could go on...I carry both my PPC and MD with me as they both complement each other in many ways.

You can read more about MDs at: http://www.minidisct.com/
Alternatively, you can also read all the stuff in their huge forum: http://www.minidisct.com/forum/index.php

MiniDisc Australia: http://www.minidisc.com.au/
Very affordable prices on all devices + accessories.

What I can say is that MDs are only going up, and are a serious contender in the portable audio market. I've never regretted buying an MD recorder even though mine is a few years old. Hi-MD is making me consider an upgrade in the near future :D

[baker]

I've got a mini (because of price) and it works great.

[Kowalski]

mechanical storage devices use more power than static memory devices so i dont find harddisk based mp3 players and md players.
but if i have to choose one i would go for harddisk based because they have much more capacity and syncronization is much more easy

[Darius Wey]

but if i have to choose one i would go for harddisk based because they have much more capacity and syncronization is much more easy

That's the other thing you have to weigh up - whether you're willing to fork out wads of cash for flash memory, or take out the dollar coins and get yourself a whole collection of blank MDs that you can hold about 4 albums worth on each disc. The price difference is enormous! Best of all, you can carry around your collection of MDs and swap around when you want to! Let's say a 512MB SD card costs A$170 - you could store about 128 songs (e.g. each song is 4MB), or at $1.50 a pop for a blank MD that can store 320 minutes if you record in LP4 mode, that's about a total of 113 discs for the same price you pay for the SD card, which now totals to about 602 hours of music which equates to 25 days worth of continuous music for the same price! :mrgreen:

Those that disregard MDs are often impressed by their capacity and features once they learn more about it. Do a bit of research...and you'll be pleasantly surprised. :lol: Of course, there are those that hate MDs full stop...that's just personal preference :p

[Kati Compton]

That's the other thing you have to weigh up - whether you're willing to fork out wads of cash for flash memory, or take out the dollar coins and get yourself a whole collection of blank MDs that you can hold about 4 albums worth on each disc. The price difference is enormous! Best of all, you can carry around your collection of MDs and swap around when you want to! Let's say a 512MB SD card costs A$170 - you could store about 128 songs (e.g. each song is 4MB), or at $1.50 a pop for a blank MD that can store 320 minutes if you record in LP4 mode, that's about a total of 113 discs for the same price you pay for the SD card, which now totals to about 602 hours of music which equates to 25 days worth of continuous music for the same price! :mrgreen:
True, but then you have to carry around all those disks...

[Zack Mahdavi]

I used to be a big fan of Minidisc players.. I remember how superior I felt to those that were carrying around 64MB Rios and Nomads back in 1999.

Of course, things change... I finally upgraded when the iPod was introduced... why carry around a bunch of minidiscs when you can store your entire collection in one player? Minidisc players have better battery life, but the iPod's 8 hour battery life doesn't bother met at all.

Don't get me wrong.. I love minidisc players, but I think the technology has served its purpose well and will retire (at least in the US).

[Darius Wey]

True, but then you have to carry around all those disks...

:oops: :mrgreen: :oops:

Ok...:p hehehehehehh

Don't get me wrong.. I love minidisc players, but I think the technology has served its purpose well and will retire (at least in the US).

We shall see. I don't know about Hi-MD and whether it will take off. If it doesn't, you may be right! :lol:

[Janak Parekh]

The way MD works is that it only records the 1's and 0's that are audible to the human ear. Of course, decent headphones help, but overall, they rival most other audio technologies.
They use ATRAC as their encoding, which is actually a few notches below WMA/Ogg/AAC qualitywise. But it's not terrible.

Nevertheless, MDs seem to not have picked up in the United States, and it seems even less likely to do so today. For me, the fact that Sony is very difficult about DRM makes it even less likely that I'll ever use a Sony music player.

--janak

[Darius Wey]

They use ATRAC as their encoding, which is actually a few notches below WMA/Ogg/AAC qualitywise. But it's not terrible.

Yep, all audio recorded on the MD in non MDLP format is recorded in ATRAC format, and those recorded in LP2 and LP4 are recorded in ATRAC3.

It is claimed that ATRAC utilises technology so that only the range of audio signals audible to the human hearing range is recorded. Thus, the difference between an MP3/WMA...etc. is very minimal compared to one recorded in ATRAC (although conversion from MP3 to ATRAC is dependent on the source file itself). However, those with sharp ears can tell the difference between LP2 and even more so with LP4, and MP3/WMA, etc. However, for those audio n00b-ies, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Nevertheless, MDs seem to not have picked up in the United States, and it seems even less likely to do so today. For me, the fact that Sony is very difficult about DRM makes it even less likely that I'll ever use a Sony music player.

MDs seem to have flourished only in certain parts of the world. In Australia, it's variable, it seems to go up in one stage, then down another...nowadays, I see people carrying flash, CD and MD devices around, as well as other geeky gadgets.

DRM used in NetMD technology can easily be bypassed. And those recorded through optical/analog input do not even utilise DRM. Overall, MD is a fair format, although I will have to see there are a lot more alternatives out there. The benefits of MDs will only appeal to those who need it. It is used widely by audio fanatics and musicians alike, but those looking for pure simplicity for simply playing music files may find their needs in an MP3 player. That is why I carry both around: my PPC for playing my music; my MD for the same purpose, as well as for my music composing and recording. :mrgreen:

[Janak Parekh]

It is claimed that ATRAC utilises technology so that only the range of audio signals audible to the human hearing range is recorded. Thus, the difference between an MP3/WMA...etc. is very minimal compared to one recorded in ATRAC (although conversion from MP3 to ATRAC is dependent on the source file itself).
And the insistence of Sony on converting anything stored on the MD to ATRAC is annoying. Lossy recompression is really not desirable... at least to my ears. ;)

DRM used in NetMD technology can easily be bypassed.
No, I mean online music purchase-wise. From the reviews, Sony Connect is absolutely lousy. And, of course, you cannot use WMA/AAC stores, unless you burn CDs and rerip them into ATRAC. :(

--janak

[Darius Wey]

OK...a few days later, and what have I come up with?

Well, I'm sure the whole "are MD's good" topic has been fathomed out, and I'm not trying to come back with a promoting argument here, but I thought the new Hi-MD technology was interesting (after I had a bit of a look at it) so I thought I'd talk about it here. So for all audio geeks, and all other techies as well, read on. ;)

Being called Hi-MD, you'd expect something to be "hi(gh) on the wild side of audio technology". Well, the new Hi-MD disc has a storage capacity of 1GB, and in ATRAC terms, this means each disc can hold a maximum of 45 hours of music. Continuing on the tradition of MD structural stability, MDs are apparently static, magnetic and shock proof, although I'm sure if you got Arnie to work his biceps on it, he could snap it no problems whatsoever. While this new Hi-MD format may potentially phase out existing MDs, the new devices can now format existing MDs into twice its capacity, so as Sony claims: "everyone can take advantage of Hi-MD's capacity". (rolleyes)

So what does the new Hi-MD allow you to record in? Good ol' linear PCM and ATRAC/ATRAC3/ATRAC3 Plus
And how fast can you transfer stuff into it this time? Up to 100x real-time (that's 45 hours of music in 27 minutes - I think I worked that one out right?)
And do you still need a blimmin AC connection to keep the device charged? Nope, connect it to the PC via USB and it'll be charging!
And is that everything? No...so they claim that it can store 1GB of goodness...and it really can. The Hi-MD is not just limited to the 1's and 0's that have to do with audio recording, but it can now store all your data files (e.g. MP3s, pictures, videos, documents, etc.). It works via the FAT file system, so the Hi-MD is now a versatile storage format around the house/business and on-the-go.

This makes me wonder...I'm sure you can do something with the devices and/or discs to allow the MD devices themselves to play the MP3 files, not to mention WMA, OGG, etc. Quoting somebody on the forum from some topic I can't remember reading a while ago..."While there is a will, there is a way!" (exact wording may not be 100% accurate) ;)


So to sum things up...Hi-MD now has:

1GB of storage
Ability to store data files as well
Increased transfer rates up to 100x
Departing AC connection for charging device now replaced with USB-PC provided power capability
Backward compatibility with existing MDs by formatting it to twice its original capacity
And the "oh-so-lovely" guarantee that Sony will try and dominate the market once again. 8)

[jbachandouris]

45 hours is about 45 cds? When will hi-md be available?

[Darius Wey]

As far as I know, it's available now...although in Australia, one of the higher range models, the Sony MZNH1 (I think I got that model number right) won't be available until July 2004. Other Hi-MD devices are already available I think. But I'm sure some other elite techy countries (e.g. Japan - a.k.a. Aibo land) already have them all.

[Darius Wey]

Sorry...forgot to reply to your first question before...

45 hours is about 45 cds?
Yes, but don't forget this is in the lowest encoded ATRAC3 Plus bitrate. Obviously, once you increase the quality that is encoded on the disc, the amount of hours you could potentially record decreases. Which quality level you want is up to you - thus amount of music you could store is determined on a personal level. But on another note...the 1GB storage should be enticing! 8)

[yslee]

Now, IIRC, didn't Sony dropy MDLP modes 2 and 4 with Hi MD? Now it's something like loseless, 256kb/s, and 64kb/s (compared to 320, 160, 96 in ATRAC/ATRAC3). I'm kinda sore that there's no 160 kb/s mode anymore, since that'd have meant more music for the HiMD format.

[Darius Wey]

Now, IIRC, didn't Sony dropy MDLP modes 2 and 4 with Hi MD? Now it's something like loseless, 256kb/s, and 64kb/s (compared to 320, 160, 96 in ATRAC/ATRAC3). I'm kinda sore that there's no 160 kb/s mode anymore, since that'd have meant more music for the HiMD format.

I'm not 100% sure but I believe Sony have dropped the MDLP tag in this new Hi-MD format. However, I do not believe that Hi-MD is just limited to lossless, 256 and 64. I'm sure you can select bitrates in between, and I believe it goes even lower than 64 down to 48.

[yslee]

Hmmm ok, this one isn't very clear yet, and I can't read Japanese!

[Darius Wey]

Hmmm ok, this one isn't very clear yet, and I can't read Japanese!

LOL! Try the www.minidisct.com site and its appropriate forum. English for everyone! 8)

But all the info I previously put up from Hi-MD is actually from a publication I get sent to me every couple of months. I'm sure there's a bit more detailed stuff on the net.

[jbachandouris]

The problem with the new Hi-MD is the price. $199? I hope the prices will come down since I can get a hard drive based player from Dell with 15GB new or 20GB from their outlet store. Since HD players offer greater capacity and the ability to be used as an external drive, what is the advantage if a mini disc?

[yslee]

Err.. gigabyes on the cheap?

If only it played MP3s!

[Darius Wey]

If only it played MP3s!

Hehehehh...there must be a WAY!!!

[GoldKey]

The problem with the new Hi-MD is the price. $199? I hope the prices will come down since I can get a hard drive based player from Dell with 15GB new or 20GB from their outlet store. Since HD players offer greater capacity and the ability to be used as an external drive, what is the advantage if a mini disc?

Dells do not really work as an external drive. Iriver is better for that. That is the main reason I am selling my Dell (see Buy/Sell forum) and just ordered the iriver 40 GB.

[jbachandouris]

The problem with the new Hi-MD is the price. $199? I hope the prices will come down since I can get a hard drive based player from Dell with 15GB new or 20GB from their outlet store. Since HD players offer greater capacity and the ability to be used as an external drive, what is the advantage if a mini disc?

Dells do not really work as an external drive. Iriver is better for that. That is the main reason I am selling my Dell (see Buy/Sell forum) and just ordered the iriver 40 GB.

They don't? Why not? Which ones do? Ipod?

[GoldKey]

The problem with the new Hi-MD is the price. $199? I hope the prices will come down since I can get a hard drive based player from Dell with 15GB new or 20GB from their outlet store. Since HD players offer greater capacity and the ability to be used as an external drive, what is the advantage if a mini disc?

Dells do not really work as an external drive. Iriver is better for that. That is the main reason I am selling my Dell (see Buy/Sell forum) and just ordered the iriver 40 GB.

They don't? Why not? Which ones do? Ipod?

Not sure about the Ipod. The Dell can be recongnized as a drive, but you have to install a special driver on each PC you want to use it on. Plus, you still can't move music directly to the drive using Windows Explorer, you have to use software to do it. I know the iRiver (that's why I ordered it) and Archos (I used to have theirs, but the quality of the unit was poor) both support direct USB connection and allow you to move files directly to the unit.

[jbachandouris]

Actually, there is a program called Dude Explorer that seems to be a Windows Explorer for the Dell Jukebox. Check it out while you still own one and let me know.

[that_kid]

Not sure about the Ipod.

Yes the Ipods can function as hard drives as well. I never tried it but I know It can be done.

[GoldKey]

Actually, there is a program called Dude Explorer that seems to be a Windows Explorer for the Dell Jukebox. Check it out while you still own one and let me know.

I think you are referring to Dudebox by Red Chair. The program costs about $30, so I am not about to buy it for a player I am getting rid of. I think you are missing my point though. The point is, you have to install software, whether Dell supplied or 3rd party to connect to and move content to the Dell. The iRiver can just be plugged into any XP box and is automatically detected and the drive is mounted. You can then copy directly to/from it.

[Janak Parekh]

Yes the Ipods can function as hard drives as well. I never tried it but I know It can be done.
Yes, just like the iRiver, the iPod appears as a USB (or Firewire) Mass Storage Device -- no drivers needed. :)

--janak