left handers?

[zilla31]

anyway to switch my scroll bars to the left side GLOBALLY??

[wesley762]

I have searched that for a long time and unfortanlty it just is not out there that I could find. hands down that is got to be the biggest thing that I miss about palm.

[jake080]

SOMEBODY! MAKE A PROGRAM TO OVERRIDE WM/PPC SCROLLBARS!!!

:lol:

:)

[Pony99CA]

anyway to switch my scroll bars to the left side GLOBALLY??
I haven't programmed for Windows CE, but I have programmed for Windows. As far as I know, the basic window has scroll bars on the right and bottom and there's no way to change that.

A programmer could write a program differently and put scroll bars wherever they want, but I think every programmer would have to do that on their own.

A third-party program might be able to find all vertical scroll bars and change their window positions, but I don't know if the window containing the scroll bar would properly move the contents to the right.

Steve

[Skoobouy]

What about a 3rd party app that sat on top of all programs, and put its own scroll bar on the left side, in addition to the default? Not ideal, but maybe possible?

[zilla31]

damn... i guess we're stuck not being able to read anything and scroll at the same time (since my damn hand and stylus are in the way!!!).

go left :mrgreen:

[Pony99CA]

damn... i guess we're stuck not being able to read anything and scroll at the same time (since my damn hand and stylus are in the way!!!).

Not true. In most applications, the directional pad can be used to scroll, so your hand won't block the screen at all.

Steve

[Kacey Green]

WOOT, southpaws unite! :grouphug:

I find that when it comes to computer interfaces, I tend to adapt to the right-hand biased world.

[wesley762]

I'm left handed but never been able to use my mouse with the left. and about using the dpad, it just never seams to work very smothly. man I miss my jog dial on my old jornada.

[Kacey Green]

I'm with you there wesley, I can only use the mouse in my left hand while web browsing (scroll wheel and the occasional link pressing) but it is still in right hand mode, I can't adjust easily to having the right and left mouse buttons switched.

[Kowalski]

i'll try to explain from a programmers perspective:
most of the windows controls know that they have to make scroll bars whenever needed, and you dont write a single line of code.
sometimes when you want to enable scroll bars you only tell windows to do so, you specify some parameters but there is no parameter to make default scroll position.
any application can make its own scrollbar class but this will be specific to only that application.
what you are asking is changing the behaviour of windows OS which is living in the system rom
i'm sorry but this seems too diffucult to be made

[JvanEkris]

Lets say this site has enough MVP's to bring the idea to Bill Gates himself. From a software-point of view it is no problem: you just call the class. The OS has to decide wether to put them on the left or right. The screen-size does not change so the application will not even notice. The OS can do what it wants if somebody in Microsoft sees the light.....

Jaap

[Janak Parekh]

Lets say this site has enough MVP's to bring the idea to Bill Gates himself.
Well, I'm a lefty MVP, but... I've never had a problem with right-sided scrollbars. 8O They never seemed to bother me, and I prefer having a consistent UI.

Of course, I'm the lefthander that also uses his mouse with his right hand.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

damn... i guess we're stuck not being able to read anything and scroll at the same time (since my damn hand and stylus are in the way!!!).
Really? Apart from Steve's d-pad suggestion, I just use a slightly different angle when scrolling, and my hand's not in the way of reading what I want. In fact, I find that by having the scrollbar on the right side, I can rest my stylus against the right side of my Pocket PC while I'm scrolling.

--janak

[JvanEkris]

Well Janek,

It bothers me a lot. I guess it has to do with writing style, but my hand is constantly blocking my view. I use TomTom Navigator that does have the option for the zoom-bar switching to the left, and i must say i like it a lot.

I do say that a PocketPC is a very personal device. You can personalize every detail of it: appearance, screen-layout of the today-screen, layout of the main screens of tha applications etc.. Just to make sure that this personal device fits the personal needs of the user. One very urgent need i have is to read my screen while scrolling with a scroll-bar. I have 500+ contacts, so i would like to know where i am when scrolling.

With all respect, steve's D-pad construction is only a non-functioning work-around. The scroll-bar is not only faster, but let's face it: why fill the scarce space with scroll-bars when you see the D-Pad is a functional replacement for them? In my personal situation i have up and down always linked to Media player to switch songs, like a lot of other people that use it as a MP3 player as well. So using a d-pad is a bit awkward.....

Jaap

[Janak Parekh]

Well Janek,


It bothers me a lot. I guess it has to do with writing style, but my hand is constantly blocking my view. I use TomTom Navigator that does have the option for the zoom-bar switching to the left, and i must say i like it a lot.
Well, I'll bring it up amongst the other MVPs and see what the discussion is. I think it's been mentioned before; my guess is that it's not considered a high-priority item, but we'll see.

As for your individual points: I use PI for Contacts, which has a dynamic search field, so I almost never use the scrollbar. And as for WMP, I map left/right to previous track/next track, which would work in this scenario AFAICT. Myself, I make heavy use of the d-pad on my i700 and the jog dial on my e805.

--janak ;)

[Sven Johannsen]

can only use the mouse in my left hand while web browsing (scroll wheel and the occasional link pressing) but it is still in right hand mode.

I'm right handed and that drives me nuts when I sit down at a leftie's PC and the mouse is on the left. I can use the mouse just fine but I want to 'left' click with my left index finger. It seems most of you leave the buttons in right hand mode.

BTW, on bringing it to Bill, he's left handed you know. If it hasn't bugged him by now, it's not changing :roll:

[JvanEkris]

[quote=JvanEkris]Well Janek,
And as for WMP, I map left/right to previous track/next track, which would work in this scenario AFAICT. Myself, I make heavy use of the d-pad on my i700 and the jog dial on my e805.

--janak ;)Sorry Janak :oops:

My Asus A716 and Loox 600 both have a jog dial or scroll buttons on the side of the unit. These are mapped to the up-down control of the d-pad:(. If you use themto control WMP, your stuck with it on the d-pad as well. For the rest i use the scrol bar. The d-pad is too slow and i have to get rid of the stylus again. IMHO the d-pad was not a good idea to start with: never use it.....

I'll help Bart Martens remember as well:D

Jaap

[Pony99CA]

With all respect, steve's D-pad construction is only a non-functioning work-around.
It's hardly "non-functioning"; that would mean it didn't work. It may not work well for you, though, and you made a reasonable case for why.

The scroll-bar is not only faster, but let's face it: why fill the scarce space with scroll-bars when you see the D-Pad is a functional replacement for them?
That's fallacious thinking.

First, scroll bars existed on Windows CE before directional pads did.

Second, the Pocket PC is supposed to be similar to Windows, and not having scroll bars would likely confuse users.

Finally, if scroll bars were the perfect solution, why did mouse companies add scroll wheels to mice? It's because another mechanism for scrolling is sometimes more convenient. For scrolling short distances, the directional pad (or scroll wheel) is probably better than using the scroll bars. For scrolling long distances, I agree that the scroll bar is likely more efficient.

In my personal situation i have up and down always linked to Media player to switch songs, like a lot of other people that use it as a MP3 player as well. So using a d-pad is a bit awkward.....
Why not unmap the buttons when Media Player is in the background? That's what I do, because it drove me nuts when I couldn't use my buttons just because Media Player happened to be open.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

can only use the mouse in my left hand while web browsing (scroll wheel and the occasional link pressing) but it is still in right hand mode.
I'm right handed and that drives me nuts when I sit down at a leftie's PC and the mouse is on the left. I can use the mouse just fine but I want to 'left' click with my left index finger. It seems most of you leave the buttons in right hand mode.
While that would bother me, too, I don't think it will be an issue with the Pocket PC. How many people share PDAs?

BTW, on bringing it to Bill, he's left handed you know. If it hasn't bugged him by now, it's not changing :roll:
Do you know that Bill actually uses a Pocket PC? :lol:

Seriously, I think allowing positioning the scroll bars on the left is a reasonable customization request. People might ask why it wasn't felt to be necessary on the PC, but the answer is simple -- people don't usually touch their PC's screen, so their hands don't get in the way.

Steve

[JvanEkris]

In my personal situation i have up and down always linked to Media player to switch songs, like a lot of other people that use it as a MP3 player as well. So using a d-pad is a bit awkward.....
Why not unmap the buttons when Media Player is in the background? That's what I do, because it drove me nuts when I couldn't use my buttons just because Media Player happened to be open.

SteveBecause i like to switch songs even when i'm using my pocketpc for other tasks????

Jaap

[Pony99CA]

In my personal situation i have up and down always linked to Media player to switch songs, like a lot of other people that use it as a MP3 player as well. So using a d-pad is a bit awkward.....
Why not unmap the buttons when Media Player is in the background? That's what I do, because it drove me nuts when I couldn't use my buttons just because Media Player happened to be open.
Because i like to switch songs even when i'm using my pocketpc for other tasks????
You're not sure? :roll:

Seriously, you pop up your task manager, switch to Media Player, switch songs, then minimize Media Player. Yes, it's four steps instead of one, but it probably won't take five seconds and you don't lose the functionality of the buttons in every other application.

Unless you don't use your buttons for anything else or you do a lot of song switching, I'd think the trade-off would be worth it.

Steve

[JvanEkris]

Seriously, you pop up your task manager, switch to Media Player, switch songs, then minimize Media Player. Yes, it's four steps instead of one, but it probably won't take five seconds and you don't lose the functionality of the buttons in every other application.

Unless you don't use your buttons for anything else or you do a lot of song switching, I'd think the trade-off would be worth it.

SteveSwitching songs is what i do a lot.

The D-pad is not used anyway because it is slow and inpricise anyway. One of my must-haves on any PDA however is a jog-dial/up-down button to make switching songs as easy as possible (so four taps on the screen is four too many!!!).

When traveling i use a lot of other applications in the foreground (public transport scheduler etc.) which i use continously. I want to be able to switch songs without task-switching....

So the conclude this discussion: the d-pad is not a viable substitution for the scrollbar in any way. Besides: the scroll bars are there, why not make them usable for about the 10% lefthanded users as well?

Jaap

[Sven Johannsen]

Do you know that Bill actually uses a Pocket PC? :lol:

Seriously, I think allowing positioning the scroll bars on the left is a reasonable customization request. People might ask why it wasn't felt to be necessary on the PC, but the answer is simple -- people don't usually touch their PC's screen, so their hands don't get in the way.

Steve

The mouse thing was an offhand comment.

Actually I'm pretty sure that Bill does not use a Pocket PC. That was revealed some time back. He does however use a Tablet, and I've heard similar complaints in those forums. Who knows? Maybe that will generate some interest in changing that which may spill over into the PPC arena.

[uneekrose]

I realize I'm sort of late for this post but I've been scouring the forums on several websites since I got my new ipag seeing if anyone came up with a program to switch the scroll bar since I also am left handed. Apparently not. It's just easier to use the stylus since its already in my left hand then put it down, scroll, pick it back up...etc.... For those of you using your mouse on a desktop pc, I use it left handed, came to me fairly easy. I opened my pointers with irfranview and turned them all around so they were for a left handed view but left all my buttons on the mouse the way they were and adapted. I've had to adapt in this right handed world for a very long time. The best mouse I have found for left handed use is the logitech.

[PDANEWBIE]

Actually I had a teacher with a good sense about her. I am a lefty but I use the mouse right handed. Why? Well the nice thing is your able to take notes with your left hand and write while your trying to use the mouse on the computer (mutitaskers drool now).

The only thing I dont like about PDA's is the lefty form factor never being addressed I.E. PPCs with the wheels and whatnot on the left side instead of the right,. Things like these scrollbars I tend to use my right hand.

Leftys of the world unite! What I really hate is spiral notebooks and ink that doesn't dry fast enough as your pushing your hand across the page.

[rocky_raher]

The concept of putting the scroll bar on the left side seems a little sinister to me. At the least, it would certainly be considered rather gauche.

[buss]

Well the nice thing is your able to take notes with your left hand and write while your trying to use the mouse on the computer (mutitaskers drool now)..

I never took the time to think about that, but you are correct with that observation. I too am left handed, but have never changed my computer from the "right hand" mode.

Having the scroll bars on the right in my PPC is not a major thing with me. I guess like most everthing else in the right-hand oriented world I have just gotten used to it.

Of course it very well could be a conspiracy by righties of the world to slow down the more intelligent left handed people in a effort to obtain intellectual equality :wink:

[MROX]

I would prefer 10 X having the side button of X50v to the right side instead. 4 fingers on the side without pressing those button, I still need some training after 2 weeks.

But I prefer them on left side then not at all. :wink:

[OSUKid7]

I know it's pretty easy to change the vertical scrollbar to the left side in HTML...I don't remember the exact code for it atm, but is it possible to see how it's done in HTML and apply that to WinCE.NET? Maybe not. :|

Better head over to the Leftorium for this one. ;)

[Wiggster]

I know it's pretty easy to change the vertical scrollbar to the left side in HTML...I don't remember the exact code for it atm, but is it possible to see how it's done in HTML and apply that to WinCE.NET? Maybe not. :|

Better head over to the Leftorium for this one. ;)

There's no HTML that can do this. CSS supports mirroring of your page from right-to-left, but that reverses everything, even text. You can hack around with classes to have a mirrored div inside a mirrored div so the text goes the right way with the scrollbar on the left, but this is CSS, which isn't supported Windows Mobile, and has nothing to do with the shell at all.

Bottom line, unless developers forgo normal scrolling methods and put the scrollbars on the left side of their application, you can't change where the scrollbars are, to the best of my knowledge.

[rocky_raher]

When I was in high school, I thought it would be a challenge to develop the ability to read and write upside down, or mirror-image. It turned out to be a lot easier than I'd expected, almost no challenge at all.

So, if you really want the scroll bar to be on the left, simply hold your PDA upside down, and learn to read and write inverted.

[rocky_raher]

The concept of putting the scroll bar on the left side seems a little sinister to me. At the least, it would certainly be considered rather gauche.

Perhaps I should explain this post. I can't resist some kinds of wordplay. The word "sinister" comes from the Latin word for "left," and "gauche" is French for "left." So, whenever the topic of equal rights for lefties (which include my daughter, one of my sisters, and a brother-in-law) comes up, I can't help pointing out that the topic is both sinister and gauche.

Of course, the fact that these two words have the negative meanings they do has often been cited as society's prejudice against southpaws.







If you DID find a way to put the scroll bar on the left, would you refer to it as a "bar sinister"?

[surfer]

Im a leftie but i've simply adjusted myself to the scrollbar why? Sometimes we lefties simply have ajdust. But we will rule the world soon again :devilboy:

[CTSLICK]

I have given up any dream of being able to adjust the OS to be more lefty friendly. This is something that I had when I left the Palm OS behind 4 years ago...a little hack called Lefty that moved the scroll bars to the left side of the screen. Imagine my surprise when I could not find its equivalent in the PPC world. Oh well, I have learned to live with it...like so many other things that are right hand-centric.

[ventivent]

I usually set the "record memo" button on the left side of the PocketPC to scroll down, since I never use the voice memo function. Then I can hold the PocketPC in my right hand and click with my right index finger to advance pages, or if I hold it with my left hand, I can use my left thumb to advance pages.

HTH,
V