MobileGadgetNews' Lowdown On The New HP Devices

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/hp.html' target='_blank'>http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/hp.html</a><br /><br /></div>"HP is working on a jaw dropping pile of machines taking full advantage of all the technology advancements in hardware and software they can. I think we all have to commend them on their innovation and commitment to development. There are no less than seven new models in the works and we have the scoop. Let's start from the bottom up."<br /><br />Sean isn't kidding when they say they have the scoop. The devices range from $229 to $649, and he not only has specs, but release dates and pictures in some cases. You <b>have</b> to check this article out if you're thinking of getting an iPAQ in the next 3-6 months.

[Enderet]

Those prices are insane.

549 for the 2210 replacement? 8O and they didnt even make it a VGA PPC?!

Sheesh... what a dissapointment. Id rather get a new Axim with the 624, since they seem to be the same overall, except for the extra 150+ the HP one costs.

[Jonathan1]

Save that page while you can folks because I'm betting HP isn't going to be happy about the picts. :)

The one thing I don't get. Only ONE Pocket PC with VGA support?!?!?!? WTH?!? Esp when the article notes there are two models that are designated as "multimedia PocketPC". In my mind that would scream VGA support.

[TomB]

"Jaw-dropping" may be a great adjective for the number of units, but as far as the devices go "boring" will do just fine. Yeah yeah, the Explorer with VGA Display and 624 MHz CPU sounds interesting but at over a buck a MHz? Sorry HP, I don't see much reason to dump my trusty and AFFORDABLE H1910 yet. It seems like we have reached the end of the line on exciting mobile computing unless you get a rush spending $650 on a PocketPC.

[Jonathan1]

I really am at a total loss as to what device I want. #1 on my list is VGA support but #2 is size and unfortunately in this case I can't have my cake and eat it too.

I wonder if its a matter of HP can't get VGA support in smaller devices or doesn't want to get VGA support in smaller devices. :?:

I like the lineup but the disparity in some of the specs really makes you wonder what is going on at HP.

[huangzhinong]

These pictures and specs are only R&D data, not even prototype.

For example, the "rx1700" spec is even lower than h1937, but list $30 more than h1937. I don't know how HP will use it to replace h1937, let alone h1945.

The best sellers of ipaq is H1900 series now. From this line-out, it seems HP want to kill h1900 and h4155 form factors completely, which I think its impossible.

The hx4700 prototype has been testing in some inside groups now, so that part of data is true. I won't believe others until somebody got a prototype or a real picture.

[takotchi]

The only one that interests me is the "Explorers"... I have to say the price is not really surprising. I think it's odd that it only has an average 64MB of RAM but a generous 128MB of ROM. Unless those specs have been accidently reversed...

I'll have to see how good the "Explorers" really is, but I kind of expected to have to spend that amount to get all of the newest PPC features (fastest CPU, VGA, dual wireless) and I've been waiting for something with significant improvements over the seemingly endless onslaught of 400MHz-based PPCs.

I really do wish they could somehow make them a little less expensive though... you practically have to sell your organs on the black market to get a no-compromise PPC nowadays. :?

[manywhere]

:shocked!: Holy macaroni! :drool: :drool:
OK, seems like I need to clean out my keyboard after this article...

That Explorer is cool, but so are all the other models! Man will it be hard to buy a new iPAQ this year (assuming the specs made it into the final devices). :lol:

[manywhere]

"Jaw-dropping" may be a great adjective for the number of units, but as far as the devices go "boring" will do just fine. Yeah yeah, the Explorer with VGA Display and 624 MHz CPU sounds interesting but at over a buck a MHz? Sorry HP, I don't see much reason to dump my trusty and AFFORDABLE H1910 yet. It seems like we have reached the end of the line on exciting mobile computing unless you get a rush spending $650 on a PocketPC.
It's the magnesium casing that adds to the price. And, if you don't like the Explorer-model, then go with some other model! :wink:

[WyattEarp]

I really am at a total loss as to what device I want. #1 on my list is VGA support but #2 is size and unfortunately in this case I can't have my cake and eat it too.

I wonder if its a matter of HP can't get VGA support in smaller devices or doesn't want to get VGA support in smaller devices. :?:

I like the lineup but the disparity in some of the specs really makes you wonder what is going on at HP.

VGA support on a 3.5" display equals really small text. I think the 3.8" to 4.0" are better suited for VGA. The biggest dissapointment to me is the 64MB RAM but I do like the 128MB ROM. Maybe Pocket PC Techs can change that if HP won't.

[Mr. Resistor]

Pretty close, but not quite....I was hoping for something like 128mb SDRAM, 64mb Flash Rom, 64mb Filestore, 4" VGA Display, 624mhz, SD & CF, Bluetooth 1.2, 802.11b/g 1.3mp Camera. 1800mAH battery, PPC2003se and a Fingerscanner.... All the pieces are there, just spread out over 3 different models.

[g0097]

My hope with the "Explorers" model would be that if the 128mb of ROM is true then that is where we can somehow install programs and not have them erased when you have to hard reset your device. I know you can install to a card but its annoying when you have to redo all the shorcuts.

I got my e800 for about 499 with a 2 year TAP included from Compusa so this model is tempting but I will have to see what it offers once it hits the streets. Ive added the extended battery to my e800 and I have the VGA add-on that gives me USB and VGA out. I also have a bluetooth card. All together, the total unit cost me as much as at list price of the bare Explorer model alone.

It would be nice to have all the pieces I have seperate in one sweet model but I am not sure loosing the VGA out and the 2 year TAP is worth it yet.

It will be a very exciting July-August when these devices hit stores so that I can run out and play with them! :D

[Dazbot]

I think I read somewhere that all applications and documents will be stored in flash memory with the RAM used to store temp data like a desktop PC, these could be the first devices to use this setup.

I want a VGA screen but i don't want it in a 5xxx sized case, maybe a 3.6-3.7 " VGA screen could be possible.

[Shadowcat]

My thoughts, assuming the data is accurate...

Eastwood:
Looks like a very nice entry level device. Does anyone know what the 48 MB MB in Asia means? Is it a typo of some sort?

Gable and Monroe:
These two devices are similar indeed. These are obviously consumer devices with their 1.3 Megapixel cameras. Looks like HP is trying to satisfy us by providing a model with both CF/SD (the Gable) and SD only (the Monroe). However, the article suggests that these two models will be based on the same shell, which wouldn't make the Monroe any smaller. Furthermore the Gable doesn't have Wi-Fi. They probably think that if Wi-Fi is integrated then there's no need for CF. I think this is a serious mistake, as I, and apparently many others on these boards, want CF so they can view pictures from their dedicated digital cameras.

Morpheus 1:
I assume there is something wrong with the specs for the Morpheus 1. It is possibly less featured than the Gable! The Gable has nearly identical stats except it has an additional camera and consumer infraread! The Morpheus does have the new Intel CPU compared to the Samsung.

Morpheus 2:
In my opinion this is almost a dream come true. It has more memory than any PDA I've heard of and supporting stats to make it truely shine! I'd wish for a 4.0 inch VGA screen and a camera (but there are many of you who are opposed to that).

Explorers:
This really is the flagship model. Am I the only one to notice that under "expansion" there's the "iPAQ Smart Slot?" Perhaps it's an incarnation of the old sleeve concept? Definately aimed at vertical markets.

h6130:
Pretty much consistent with the rumours we've been hearing.

Overall:
Looking back I noticed some details that I missed earlier. Only the Eastwood specs mention that the battery is unremovable and only the Explorer specs mention that the battery is removable. However all the diagrams (except for the Eastwood) have removable batteries, which is a good sign.

The specs for Gable and Monroe do not state landscape and portrait support unlike the other models, including the Eastwood. I hope that's that an oversight of the author. It wouldn't make any sense (except to justify why the Morpheus 1 appears to be higher than the Gable and Monroe models).

Am I excited? Very. But I sure hope those aren't finalized prices and that the pressure from Dell will push them down. Otherwise I'll be holding onto my H2210 for sure. As it is no single model has absolutely everything I want, which is a disappointment. What do you guys think?

[klinux]

One thing is for certain, Dell will come out with an Explorer-like device three months (or less) after Explorer's at half the cost!

[nosmohtac]

Pretty close, but not quite....I was hoping for something like 128mb SDRAM, 64mb Flash Rom, 64mb Filestore, 4" VGA Display, 624mhz, SD & CF, Bluetooth 1.2, 802.11b/g 1.3mp Camera. 1800mAH battery, PPC2003se and a Fingerscanner.... All the pieces are there, just spread out over 3 different models.

Same here, except I'd have to include Nevo. I don't get why HP doesn't include it in all models. I hear the reason they dropped it in the 55xx series was because it was aimed at corporate users. If that's true, it doesn't make any sense. There's nothing better than having nevo while putting on a presentation in a conference room. You walk in the room and within 5 minutes you have every device prorammed in nevo so you can control them all with your iPAQ.

I hate to say this, but nothing in that article excited me. The faster processors are nice, and I'm glad they decided to make more dual slot devices, but the rest of the specs are boring. And what the heck is an iPAQ smart slot? If this is their cute name for mini USB, then we have something to talk about, but otherwise they can keep them all and I'll keep my 5550. :roll:

[GuSo]

Pretty close, but not quite....I was hoping for something like 128mb SDRAM, 64mb Flash Rom, 64mb Filestore, 4" VGA Display, 624mhz, SD & CF, Bluetooth 1.2, 802.11b/g 1.3mp Camera. 1800mAH battery, PPC2003se and a Fingerscanner.... All the pieces are there, just spread out over 3 different models.

Same here, except I'd have to include Nevo. I don't get why HP doesn't include it in all models. I hear the reason they dropped it in the 55xx series was because it was aimed at corporate users. If that's true, it doesn't make any sense. There's nothing better than having nevo while putting on a presentation in a conference room. You walk in the room and within 5 minutes you have every device prorammed in nevo so you can control them all with your iPAQ.

I hate to say this, but nothing in that article excited me. The faster processors are nice, and I'm glad they decided to make more dual slot devices, but the rest of the specs are boring. And what the heck is an iPAQ smart slot? If this is their cute name for mini USB, then we have something to talk about, but otherwise they can keep them all and I'll keep my 5550. :roll:

Same Here, i thougt i was alone, all i want is faster processor vga, more ram, maybe smaller but whit al the fetures that my actual ipaq got like figer scanner, vibrate battery, maybe the can put in smaller packet and whit nice cover to protect it, it wolud be nice wife g too and a scroller

[rpommier]

Yawn...

most of the time when a new batch of Pocket PC's comes along there are features worth getting. Nothing about the new models does much for me. The biggest advantage of WM2003SE is VGA/Landscape, yet we get only one model with VGA.

I have a 2200, so there's really no reason for me to move to a new device. All that I would get that I can't get now is WiFi, since I can get WM2003SE as an upgrade.

But that's cool though, I get to wait for the next round, unless the ASUS 730 comes in at a reasonable price. The days of the $650 PDA are over, doesn't HP know that you can get a Dell notebook for that price?

[Jonathan1]

VGA support on a 3.5" display equals really small text. I think the 3.8" to 4.0" are better suited for VGA. The biggest dissapointment to me is the 64MB RAM but I do like the 128MB ROM. Maybe Pocket PC Techs can change that if HP won't.

Yes but that is what the font size slider in WM2003SE is for.

[Pony99CA]

My thoughts, assuming the data is accurate...

Eastwood:
Looks like a very nice entry level device. Does anyone know what the 48 MB MB in Asia means? Is it a typo of some sort?

I believe the Asian models have more ROM due to the double-byte character set required.

Gable and Monroe:
These two devices are similar indeed. These are obviously consumer devices with their 1.3 Megapixel cameras. Looks like HP is trying to satisfy us by providing a model with both CF/SD (the Gable) and SD only (the Monroe). However, the article suggests that these two models will be based on the same shell, which wouldn't make the Monroe any smaller. Furthermore the Gable doesn't have Wi-Fi. They probably think that if Wi-Fi is integrated then there's no need for CF.
I think you misread something. Neither the Gable nor the Monroe were listed as having Compact Flash slots.

Morpheus 1:
I assume there is something wrong with the specs for the Morpheus 1. It is possibly less featured than the Gable! The Gable has nearly identical stats except it has an additional camera and consumer infraread! The Morpheus does have the new Intel CPU compared to the Samsung.
The Morpheus Model 1 has a Compact Flash slot and is $50 cheaper than the Gable. I see no obvious problem with the specs.

Steve

[Pony99CA]

Pretty close, but not quite....I was hoping for something like 128mb SDRAM, 64mb Flash Rom, 64mb Filestore, 4" VGA Display, 624mhz, SD & CF, Bluetooth 1.2, 802.11b/g 1.3mp Camera. 1800mAH battery, PPC2003se and a Fingerscanner....
:rotfl: Were you hoping for a $900 price tag, too? :rotfl:

By the way, I'd love that Pocket PC, too, but I'd like GPS included (and maybe CDMA or GSM/GPRS). :-D As long as I'm at it, I want at least a 2 megapixel camera (with flash and an optical zoom, of course). :lol:

Steve

[mara6]

:(

I can't get that link to work! :evil: I need to see the new Ipaqs!!!!

[wbuch]

It seemed the most logical thing in the world to me for there to be a VGA successor to the 4355. The combo of VGA plus thumbboard, along with bluetooth and WiFi would be killer! Are you listening HP?? Of course, the idea that they're only releasing one VGA model is also ridiculous (let's hope that part of the info is incorrect).

[jmbneaf]

Pretty close, but not quite....I was hoping for something like 128mb SDRAM, 64mb Flash Rom, 64mb Filestore, 4" VGA Display, 624mhz, SD & CF, Bluetooth 1.2, 802.11b/g 1.3mp Camera. 1800mAH battery, PPC2003se and a Fingerscanner....Add GSM/GPRS Quad Band Cell phone to that in the size of a e805 or H5555 and $900 is a steal IMHO.

Now thats my dream machine...

-JB

[wbuch]

Anybody have the site shadowed somewhere? Seems to be perennially down now.

Update: back up now, but really slow (the Pocket PC Thoughts effect? :wink:).

[Sean Murphy]

We are trying like crazy to get the server to handle the load but we are running about 1000 concurrent users on a box designed to run about 400 or so. If I can get in long enough to get the content of the article downloaded I can put it up as a static page which you should all be able to see. I will let you all know when I can get that up and running.

Here you go... http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/hp.html

[wbuch]

We are trying like crazy to get the server to handle the load but we are running about 1000 concurrent users on a box designed to run about 400 or so. If I can get in long enough to get the content of the article downloaded I can put it up as a static page which you should all be able to see. I will let you all know when I can get that up and running.

I have the content of the page now, if you need it.

[szamot]

I don't know, first off I though that the days of $600+ devices were over, second anything coming out towards the end of the year, should have VGA, it should have BT, it should have at least 128MB otherwise it is just a waste of plastic!

[dmy]

WiFi - YES
VGA - YES
Bluetooth - MANDATORY
More Ram - YES
SD - YES
CF - Eh.... I don't care, but if you want it and it has the rest, I'll take it.

CAMERA - NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

Please guys.... HP needs a clue here, and they're not getting it from the phone manufacturers out there. You want a camera in your PDA? Fine and Dandy..... get a CF or SDIO camera. (I still can't get over the guy above who mandates a CF slot to read his "dedicated camera's cards" AND demands a camera in the PDA).

Am I the only one who's noticed that company after company after company is BANNING devices with cameras in them??? Let's not EVEN add fitness centers and the like. Hey, I'm a photographer in my personal life..... I have a AT LEAST one camera with me 24x7x365.... EXCEPT when I go into a client site and they have big signs everywhere saying NO DEVICES WITH CAMERAS, then I leave my camera in the car. I searched for a while to find a phone that has bluetooth (mandatory as far as I'm concerned) that does NOT have a damned camera. Why?? Because I went to a client site with one of my co-workers and his T-616 was held at the front desk while we were there because it has a camera. This is common.... it was a front page story in USAToday a few weeks ago, and is getting press all over these days.

I have a cell phone so I can stay in contact with my familiy and business contacts. I carry my iPAQ because it has my data. I could see myself having a client call me to make an appointment, and me missing out on work because my phone and iPAQ are sitting in a drawer at a security desk because they have a stupid camera in them..... a camera that is so low-resolution that it's not even worth the silicon it's made of.

Cheers,
D.

[Jason Dunn]

A few things to keep in mind:

1) VGA screens are expensive (not sure how much more, but I'd venture to say quite a bit)

2) VGA is a brand new feature for Pocket PCs, so it's not surprising to see high-end units with high-end price tags being the first ones to have it

3) None of these specs are likely final, so speculate away but don't be surprised if things change

I don't know, these devices got me pretty excited. 8O

[Janak Parekh]

We are trying like crazy to get the server to handle the load but we are running about 1000 concurrent users on a box designed to run about 400 or so. If I can get in long enough to get the content of the article downloaded I can put it up as a static page which you should all be able to see. I will let you all know when I can get that up and running.
Well, you're getting hit on all the sites. I saw that engadget and/or Gizmodo picked you up. ;)

I don't know, these devices got me pretty excited.
Me too! I think we've got a tough audience here. ;) It's not completely ideal (give me a Blackberry+VGA iPAQ+Treo combo, and I'd be set), but hey, it's a nice step up from what we have now.

--janak

[rzanology]

cooome on guuuuuys....most of us always do the pebble cross water thing. From 3970 to 5450 to 5550 to 2210.... So stop acting like we wont be refreshing ebay pages looking for the seller with the least S&H charges! ROCK ON HP!!!! I will be waiting for the mail man when this 4700 thing is released.


ps. You want to know what makes a pda perfect?....all about potential. So what it has everything you dont need....BUT IT CAN DO IT!!!!

[disconnected]

Well, I'm pretty excited about that Explorers model. If the specs are correct, I'll definitely get one. It seems to have just about everything I could have asked for. I like to keep my main SD card installed all the time, and with the added CF slot I'll be able to swap storage cards in and out for extra music, movies, maps, etc. or to add a camera when needed. And I'm thrilled about the 4 inch screen -- if this is all true I'm practically euphoric :ppclove:

[Jeff Rutledge]

I still can't get the site. :(

Curse the Thoughts effect! :)

[Jason Dunn]

I still can't get the site. :( Curse the Thoughts effect! :)

Try the link again - we've linked to a static page that should load, albeit slowly.

[jalm1]

does anyone know of an estimated release date for the 6300 series. it was the only model i didnt see one for. and have heard a lot of differnt conflicting reports ranging from may to october. just cerius to know if anyone has ore info, or can speak on the issue.

[Jason Lee]

ohh.. all of them have features i want.. none have all the features i want....

I need:
128 mb ram
Nevo
bluetooth
SD
CF (might be able to live with out but probably not)
wifi (would be very nice)
VGA (would be very nice too)

I use bluetooth all the time. I use nevo alot. I am always out of ram. SD is the future expansion slot. I have many CF devices that you cannot yet get in SD (mainly 10/100 lan card) that i use for work. I do browse the web lot from my ppc so vga would be very nice. Wifi would be great so i would not have to carry my CF wifi card around in my pocket.

*sigh* :roll:

[possmann]

I'm holding out for more choices with the VGA capabilty...now that it is supported OS-wise, I'd really like to see a slew o' PPC devices with this screen capabilty...

[Jeff Rutledge]

I still can't get the site. :( Curse the Thoughts effect! :)

Try the link again - we've linked to a static page that should load, albeit slowly.

It works now. Thanks!

Now to turn off my phone for a bit... 8)

[thunderck]

I am really feeling the software bundle on the Morpheus M2...
"The CD with these units is fully loaded too, Clearview Suite, ListPro, VoIP, LanDesk, BlueFire, Cadenza mNotes, and a pile more...."

I am a big fan of BlueFire, its firewall is great. I have Lotus so mNotes is a must and works really well. 8) mNotes is over 65 bucks 8O and BlueFire is up there too. Not bad for a bundle. :mrgreen: (of course if this is at all true)

[arnage2]

My $0.02:

These models surely put HP on top of the pda world, but there are afew problems. 1st, the good: cameras, phone, wireless, variety.

2nd the bad: lack of vga, 206-400mhz average. 1 624mhz model which is at a high price. No vga or 624mhz for $400 or less.

Im going to buy the DELL X30. I just cant pass up 624mhz for $350!

[Paul P]

Explorer is it for me. :) Hopefully at some point we'll be able to customize our ppcs much like we can pcs now and avoid being limited to any one model because of the features we like or dislike. Maybe something for Dell/HP to think about. :wink:

[Shadowcat]

I think you misread something. Neither the Gable nor the Monroe were listed as having Compact Flash slots.

...

The Morpheus Model 1 has a Compact Flash slot and is $50 cheaper than the Gable. I see no obvious problem with the specs.

Steve

Ahhh...I stand corrected. I guess that's what I get for writing something that long at 2 am! :oops:

[Shadowcat]

Please guys.... HP needs a clue here, and they're not getting it from the phone manufacturers out there. You want a camera in your PDA? Fine and Dandy..... get a CF or SDIO camera. (I still can't get over the guy above who mandates a CF slot to read his "dedicated camera's cards" AND demands a camera in the PDA).

Am I the only one who's noticed that company after company after company is BANNING devices with cameras in them??? Let's not EVEN add fitness centers and the like. Hey, I'm a photographer in my personal life..... I have a AT LEAST one camera with me 24x7x365.... EXCEPT when I go into a client site and they have big signs everywhere saying NO DEVICES WITH CAMERAS, then I leave my camera in the car. I searched for a while to find a phone that has bluetooth (mandatory as far as I'm concerned) that does NOT have a damned camera. Why?? Because I went to a client site with one of my co-workers and his T-616 was held at the front desk while we were there because it has a camera. This is common.... it was a front page story in USAToday a few weeks ago, and is getting press all over these days.

I have a cell phone so I can stay in contact with my familiy and business contacts. I carry my iPAQ because it has my data. I could see myself having a client call me to make an appointment, and me missing out on work because my phone and iPAQ are sitting in a drawer at a security desk because they have a stupid camera in them..... a camera that is so low-resolution that it's not even worth the silicon it's made of.

Cheers,
D.

I'm sorry, but it seems like you have a rather narrow view of the world. There's a reason why only TWO of the models being released have digital cameras. In fact they're ones that are targeted at consumers, not at the corporate level. If you don't like a camera, then don't buy a model with a camera! You don't have to bash it like this!

As I have stated before, ableit not in this thread, I want both a low-res camera to take with me everywhere to take pictures with my friends and a high-res for vacations. I find myself wishing for a camera all the time because I don't carry my big Canon A20 with me everywhere. I do carry my PDA with me everywhere though. I am NOT looking for a PDA's camera to replace a dedicated one. IMHO there's room for both.

Please acknoledge the fact that I am aware many companies ban devices with cameras and I totally understand and accept the fact. My stance with respect to cameras on PDAs are the same as CF slots on PDAS. All I ask for is an alternate model with the camera so that everyone is happy. Just because you don't want one doesn't mean no one wants one. Since it appears there's always going to be people like you I'll just reserve my thoughts to myself from now on.

Edit:
And I apologize to the moderators in advance for getting off topic. Remove this to another thread if appropriate.

[WyattEarp]

VGA support on a 3.5" display equals really small text. I think the 3.8" to 4.0" are better suited for VGA. The biggest dissapointment to me is the 64MB RAM but I do like the 128MB ROM. Maybe Pocket PC Techs can change that if HP won't.

Yes but that is what the font size slider in WM2003SE is for.

Then that defeats the purpose of the VGA capability. Larger fonts mean you will see less and I want to see more. I don't know about everyone less but to me smaller screens are not impressive or practical. I like to be able to accomplish tasks without hunting and pecking for icons and letters.

[KH]

I can't get to the site - has it been removed?

[Jeff Rutledge]

I can't get to the site - has it been removed?

Go back to Page 1 of this thread. There's a new link there that should work.

[dmy]

I'm sorry, but it seems like you have a rather narrow view of the world.
...
Since it appears there's always going to be people like you I'll just reserve my thoughts to myself from now on.


Ya know what Shadowcat? You're right.

Maybe it is a narrow view of the world.... and I acknowledge that you may very well want a camera in your PDA and have very valid reasons for it. I apologize for being so pedantic about my view on cameras in all these devices.

But let's balance that with a view of my world. You have the option of adding an SDIO or CF camera to your PDA..... Understandably you'd rather not.... but it's a reasonably good option. How many Cell Phones are there out there WITHOUT a camera? Now let's add in phones that have a reasonably decent specification (e.g. small, good RF and acoustics, Bluetooth) and again, no camera... How many??? Exactly one.

I could go into how cameras in phones and PDA's are affecting the life of photographers... but I doubt it's useful.... there's a lot written on the subject these days. Heh.... like I'm going to take my 5.5 pound 4x5 Toyo view camera into a locker-room to secretly photograph people.... or to a bridge to take photos that are useful to terrorists. I'd use a phone-camera for those things, yet it's me and my large (much larger than your SureShot) camera that gets hassled by well-intentioned security personnel as I take photographs at Fort-Point in San Francisco. Or in down-town Des Moines Iowa while I'm shooting derelict buildings a couple miles away from the Iowa state capital.

Again, I'll try to not be *quite* so vehement and pedantic in the future.

Cheers,
D.

[Shadowcat]

I guess my response was quite sharp too and I apologize.

Now in response to your comments...
I'm looking to replace my H2210 and CF Wi-Fi card with a device with Wi-Fi built-in. I find it uncomfortable carrying a Wi-Fi card. As such I wouln't want to carry a CF or SD camera in my pocket...it would be contraproductive. So yes, I'd rather not but I admit that it is a viable alternative.

I'm assuming that your discussion of camera phones is in reference to the fact I can get one of those and forego a PDA with built-in camera? I'd prefer the bigger screen on my PDA but is is definately a very good alternative. I'm definately keeping that in mind (as the camera is rather low on my priority list)

Yes, I do see the potential dangers of these devices but I think they're here to stay, whether we like it or not.


I'd use a phone-camera for those things, yet it's me and my large (much larger than your SureShot) camera that gets hassled by well-intentioned security personnel as I take photographs at Fort-Point in San Francisco.

Those pesky, technologically inept security guards. :wink: I got hassled pretty badly several times at the airport myself.

And again, I'll try not to make such pointed responses next time.

Cheers

[Pony99CA]

2nd the bad: lack of vga, 206-400mhz average. 1 624mhz model which is at a high price.
Actually, there are rumored to be two models with 624 MHz processors -- the Morpheus Model 2 and the Explorers.

No vga or 624mhz for $400 or less.
As Jason said, VGA displays are probably significantly more expensive than QVGA ones, so it's not surprising that no under-$400 models have VGA.

Steve

[Jonathon Watkins]

One thing is for certain, Dell will come out with an Explorer-like device three months (or less) after Explorer's at half the cost!

Very true, but will they support it? &lt;/Disappointment with Dell about X5 upgrade Off>

Still, the price on the fully loaded X30 ought to concentrate minds at HP......

[Jonathon Watkins]

It seems like we have reached the end of the line on exciting mobile computing unless you get a rush spending $650 on a PocketPC.
It's the magnesium casing that adds to the price. And, if you don't like the Explorer-model, then go with some other model! :wink:

Yes, but what if you like the features of the Explorer, apart from the price? :wink:

I don't need a magnesium case, I always use leather PPC carry cases anyway. However, no other HP model offers the 4 inch screen.

[Pony99CA]

It seems like we have reached the end of the line on exciting mobile computing unless you get a rush spending $650 on a PocketPC.
It's the magnesium casing that adds to the price. And, if you don't like the Explorer-model, then go with some other model! :wink:
Yes, but what if you like the features of the Explorer, apart from the price? :wink:

Tough luck. :razz: I like the features of a Ferrari, but not the price. Should Ferrari build something for $20,000 for me? (Although I bet it would be hugely popular if they did....)

Steve

[Prevost]

I really am at a total loss as to what device I want. #1 on my list is VGA support but #2 is size and unfortunately in this case I can't have my cake and eat it too.

I wonder if its a matter of HP can't get VGA support in smaller devices or doesn't want to get VGA support in smaller devices. :?:

I like the lineup but the disparity in some of the specs really makes you wonder what is going on at HP.

VGA support on a 3.5" display equals really small text. I think the 3.8" to 4.0" are better suited for VGA. The biggest dissapointment to me is the 64MB RAM but I do like the 128MB ROM. Maybe Pocket PC Techs can change that if HP won't.
That difference in the screen's size won't make small text more legible. In certain thread Janak (if I'm not wrong) posted some photos of the PPC VGA screens working with a legible system's point size setting, showing that (at least to me) that the best VGA in PPC will give is improving text quality. Expecting to read anything in VGA size into a 4" screen is nuts (as someone else pointed out in another thread, one that had no long life here, probably due to the fact that in it, a PPC user criticized this very fact)

BTW, I haven't seen how does a word processing or spreadsheet program behaves in VGA. I mean, if it is possible to set point size of what you are writing down as system size (like in Palm's high resolution) or if you need to set the point size as part of the actual file, potentially resulting in the need to resize text when showing it in your desktop.

Concerning future iPAQ models and on a $ to $$$$$ basis, seems X30 will kick HP's ass. Also, something puzzling me is, why it is said that some of the devices will NOT support landscape, though being 2003SE??? And, is high resolution (man, 240x320 is NOT high resolution compared to 320x320 or 320x480) going to be a LUXURY FEATURE in PPCs (it is pretty much standard in Palm devices)???

In one of the Dell X30 reviews, the user says that 2003SE behavior is not alright when switching to landscape.

I don't know, VGA in a 4" screen in landscape mode would (apparently) be nice for using RepliGo in a handheld (something I do daily), but it looks to me like there are still some rough "spots" to be ironed away concerning 2003SE's VGA-landscape "abilities".

[Prevost]

It seems like we have reached the end of the line on exciting mobile computing unless you get a rush spending $650 on a PocketPC.
It's the magnesium casing that adds to the price. And, if you don't like the Explorer-model, then go with some other model! :wink:
Yes, but what if you like the features of the Explorer, apart from the price? :wink:

Tough luck. :razz: I like the features of a Ferrari, but not the price. Should Ferrari build something for $20,000 for me? (Although I bet it would be hugely popular if they did....)

Steve
So popular, you'll end choosing a Honda much better :wink:

[Janak Parekh]

That difference in the screen's size won't make small text more legible. In certain thread Janak (if I'm not wrong) posted some photos of the PPC VGA screens working with a legible system's point size setting, showing that (at least to me) that the best VGA in PPC will give is improving text quality.
Yes. Some old applications may need to be tweaked, but more user area is only half the reasoning for VGA support in WM2003SE. :)

Expecting to read anything in VGA size into a 4" screen is nuts (as someone else pointed out in another thread, one that had no long life here, probably due to the fact that in it, a PPC user criticized this very fact)
Well, I can do it, but people think I have good eyes. ;)

BTW, I haven't seen how does a word processing or spreadsheet program behaves in VGA.
I haven't used Pocket Word/Excel in WM2003SE, but I know that TextMaker and other programs have "zoom", which should do what you're implying.

Also, something puzzling me is, why it is said that some of the devices will NOT support landscape, though being 2003SE???
No, all SE devices I know will support landscape.

And, is high resolution (man, 240x320 is NOT high resolution compared to 320x320 or 320x480) going to be a LUXURY FEATURE in PPCs (it is pretty much standard in Palm devices)???
Too early to say. SE enables all sorts of resolutions, including 240x240, 480x640 and things in between. It's up to the OEMs as to what they want to see implemented.

In one of the Dell X30 reviews, the user says that 2003SE behavior is not alright when switching to landscape.
Well, the problem is 320x240 is lousy especially when you have a SIP open -- not enough real estate. Other than that, it should "work" fine. VGA should be somewhat better, and using compact SIPs should also help.

--janak

[Prevost]

That difference in the screen's size won't make small text more legible. In certain thread Janak (if I'm not wrong) posted some photos of the PPC VGA screens working with a legible system's point size setting, showing that (at least to me) that the best VGA in PPC will give is improving text quality.
Yes. Some old applications may need to be tweaked, but more user area is only half the reasoning for VGA support in WM2003SE. :)To me, improving resolution means better RepliGo performance when rendering construction plans. Is what I long for, and nothing else (for now :wink: )

Expecting to read anything in VGA size into a 4" screen is nuts (as someone else pointed out in another thread, one that had no long life here, probably due to the fact that in it, a PPC user criticized this very fact)
Well, I can do it, but people think I have good eyes. ;) I do NOT have 'em in good shape! 8O :mrgreen:

BTW, I haven't seen how does a word processing or spreadsheet program behaves in VGA.
I haven't used Pocket Word/Excel in WM2003SE, but I know that TextMaker and other programs have "zoom", which should do what you're implying. As a fact! Now, have you tried it? Does that "zoomming" settings perform smoothly in PPC's VGA? Or, anyone else have a clue on this?

Also, something puzzling me is, why it is said that some of the devices will NOT support landscape, though being 2003SE???
No, all SE devices I know will support landscape.Is what I understand, but I'm on what the reference website here states. Did you notice it in the supposed low end devices' specs there?

And, is high resolution (man, 240x320 is NOT high resolution compared to 320x320 or 320x480) going to be a LUXURY FEATURE in PPCs (it is pretty much standard in Palm devices)???
Too early to say. SE enables all sorts of resolutions, including 240x240, 480x640 and things in between. It's up to the OEMs as to what they want to see implemented.In fact, I refer to OEM's! I mean, look at the info leaking on Dell's and HP's new devices we are discussing lately. Very few (at least for now) devices (actually, one) supporting VGA! Could it be that making VGA on PPC to work is proving to be a tour de force for OEMs (in the "feat" sense of the expression)?

In one of the Dell X30 reviews, the user says that 2003SE behavior is not alright when switching to landscape.
Well, the problem is 320x240 is lousy especially when you have a SIP open -- not enough real estate. Other than that, it should "work" fine. VGA should be somewhat better, and using compact SIPs should also help.

--janakI believe Janak that he did implied that some "garbage" comes into the screen when turning it landscape, but I'm not sure...

[Janak Parekh]

As a fact! Now, have you tried it? Does that "zoomming" settings perform smoothly in PPC's VGA? Or, anyone else have a clue on this?
Actually, I haven't installed TextMaker on my e805. However, I did fire up Pocket Word, and zoomed without any problems on it in First Edition, so I'm assuming that functionality will still remain in SE.

Could it be that making VGA on PPC to work is proving to be a tour de force for OEMs (in the "feat" sense of the expression)?
Nah - I have a VGA device in my hand at this moment. Cost is a bigger issue.

I believe Janak that he did implied that some "garbage" comes into the screen when turning it landscape, but I'm not sure...
Ah. I'd assume that's probably a (to-be-fixed) bug...

--janak

[dmy]

I'm looking to replace my H2210 and CF Wi-Fi card with a device with Wi-Fi built-in.

Heh, My exact goal as well..... but I'll add that I require Bluetooth and I doubt I'd upgrade till I can get that and VGA too.

I'm assuming that your discussion of camera phones is in reference to the fact I can get one of those and forego a PDA with built-in camera?

Funny, that hadn't occurred to me at all. My point actually was that the phone manufacturers are so caught up in pushing cameras in their phones, that they're not listening to the consumers and offering options. I've beat the dead horse pretty hard, but most people don't care or want a camera, yet it's getting impossible to find a phone without one. Heh, how many ads for phones on TV do you see that the camera is a highly touted feature? I tend to over-react because I don't want to see the PDA manufacturers going the same way.


Yes, I do see the potential dangers of these devices but I think they're here to stay, whether we like it or not.

I think they're here to stay, but don't you think with all the backlash in the press that the manufacturers are going to have to swing the pendulum back the other way a bit?

Cheers,
D.

[dmy]

One thing is for certain, Dell will come out with an Explorer-like device three months (or less) after Explorer's at half the cost!

Very true, but will they support it? &lt;/Disappointment with Dell about X5 upgrade Off>

Still, the price on the fully loaded X30 ought to concentrate minds at HP......

More importantly, will Dell finally give in and admit that Bluetooth is here, useful, and a desired feature in the U.S.

D.

[ale_ers]

I've beat the dead horse pretty hard, but most people don't care or want a camera, yet it's getting impossible to find a phone without one.

I'd love to have a camera on my next PDA, and I don't want to have to add it via an SD card. I'm happy there are some options for me. My disappointment is that the 6300 doesn't include a 1.3 MP camera ...only VGA. Ah but the MPx does. Decisions.

[Pony99CA]

My point actually was that the phone manufacturers are so caught up in pushing cameras in their phones, that they're not listening to the consumers and offering options. I've beat the dead horse pretty hard, but most people don't care or want a camera, yet it's getting impossible to find a phone without one. Heh, how many ads for phones on TV do you see that the camera is a highly touted feature?
At my local Verizon store, I'd say that most of the phones don't have cameras (although I bought one that does). Of course, no Verizon phones that I know of have Bluetooth, either. :roll:

I understand the desire for not having a camera in a phone, but I think a better way to handle things is to trust your employees and escort your visitors. You shouldn't have to give up your cell phone (or PDA) just because it happens to have a camera.

National security installations and certain corporate locations are another matter, but they shouldn't be getting visitors anyway, and employees probably know the rules.

Steve

[Jonathon Watkins]

My point actually was that the phone manufacturers are so caught up in pushing cameras in their phones, that they're not listening to the consumers and offering options. I've beat the dead horse pretty hard, but most people don't care or want a camera, yet it's getting impossible to find a phone without one. Heh, how many ads for phones on TV do you see that the camera is a highly touted feature?
At my local Verizon store, I'd say that most of the phones don't have cameras (although I bought one that does). Of course, no Verizon phones that I know of have Bluetooth, either. :roll:

Well here in the UK, most decent phones have both BT and cameras. I just *Can't* find a good contract provider that offers a phone that has BT but no camera. :evil:

I understand the desire for not having a camera in a phone, but I think a better way to handle things is to trust your employees and escort your visitors. You shouldn't have to give up your cell phone (or PDA) just because it happens to have a camera.


I understand your point Pony99CA, but it's not realistic. In the real world cameras are getting banned because people do use them where they should not. It's a fact of life that many more places are having 'no camera' rules, exactly because they are becoming so common.

I'm with DMY in ensuring that PDA manufactures hear loud and clear that we don't want them built in to PDA. You can add a camera to a PDA, but you can't take it out of a PDA that contains one.

[Janak Parekh]

I understand your point Pony99CA, but it's not realistic. In the real world cameras are getting banned because people do use them where they should not. It's a fact of life that many more places are having 'no camera' rules, exactly because they are becoming so common.
Actually, I firmly believe most companies are going to have to change their policy -- there's no way out from embedded cameras. As it is, you can get cameras in watches (the Casio WQV series) and pens. How are the companies going to protect against that? Places like the NSA will (well, they probably already do) just simply ban all electronic equipment; is that practical in the rest of the world?

--janak

[Shadowcat]

Heh, My exact goal as well..... but I'll add that I require Bluetooth and I doubt I'd upgrade till I can get that and VGA too.
...
My point actually was that the phone manufacturers are so caught up in pushing cameras in their phones, that they're not listening to the consumers and offering options. I've beat the dead horse pretty hard, but most people don't care or want a camera, yet it's getting impossible to find a phone without one. Heh, how many ads for phones on TV do you see that the camera is a highly touted feature? I tend to over-react because I don't want to see the PDA manufacturers going the same way.
...
I think they're here to stay, but don't you think with all the backlash in the press that the manufacturers are going to have to swing the pendulum back the other way a bit?


Truthfully, I almost never watch TV these days. I was never really into cell phones either. I'm still using my T39, which is certainly considered a relic these days (although it's got awesome battery life and bluetooth built-in). I've never used a "smartphone" yet and I'm not sure I want to. I'm oddly a purist when it comes to cell phones. Their screens are too small IMO. So I also hope they'll swing the pendulum back the other way too and offer more choices.

[mcsouth]

I've been reading this thread and others with great interest, especially considering the differences of wish lists and features.

Our company has not issued a ban on devices with cameras yet - may be several years - but as often as I've wished for a camera at hand when I've seen something eye-catching, I'm also concerned about privacy, whether business or personal. Raise your hand if you think having a friend (?) or casual aquaintance posting a picture of you (taken without your knowledge, perhaps in the locker room) on the Internet. Camera and PDA phones may be convenient, but they also provide a much too easy intrusion into our lives in the hands of those with limited morality.

Given the current decline in the PDA market numbers, this may not come to pass, but wouldn't it be nice if a PDA manufacturer (like maybe Dell :wink: ) would actually offer a custom option like they do with desktops or laptops?....let's see, I want an X30 chassis, and I'll equip it with these options.......big proc, VGA screen, big battery, camera-delete, etc....and here's my price. Probably never happen, but to me, that's the way to give everyone what they want. This never has been a 'one-size-fits-all' market - some custom build options would allow a person to equip their unit with the features that fit their needs.

At least this glimpse of the new HP models appears to indicate that HP sees the same issues, hence the variance and overlaps in some models - I guess we'll have to wait for the actual launch to really know which unit will fit each of us the best.....hmmmm, a 4150 with 624Mhz proc, VGA and quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE would suit me fine..... :D

[dmy]

At my local Verizon store, I'd say that most of the phones don't have cameras (although I bought one that does). Of course, no Verizon phones that I know of have Bluetooth, either. :roll:

Nope.... apparently they've got one in the wings, but none yet. BTW: Look at Verizon's demographic..... the vast majority of their users are business contracts... business phones, no camera.


I understand the desire for not having a camera in a phone, but I think a better way to handle things is to trust your employees and escort your visitors. You shouldn't have to give up your cell phone (or PDA) just because it happens to have a camera.

National security installations and certain corporate locations are another matter, but they shouldn't be getting visitors anyway, and employees probably know the rules.

Too true.... but you (by your signature) live in Silicon valley.... HP, Apple, IBM, Intel, AMD, Cadence, NOKIA (?!?), Microsoft are a short list of places I've been in the past couple of months where I've seen signs banning phones with cameras.... all of them for Visitors, most for Employees as well.

Cheers,
D.

[dmy]

Well here in the UK, most decent phones have both BT and cameras. I just *Can't* find a good contract provider that offers a phone that has BT but no camera. :evil:


I got a Siemens S56 (Cingular version of the S55) and it has Bluetooth, The camera is an extra option (that I obviously don't own personally). Might work to look for a provider that has those in stock.

D.

[Steve Jordan]

Okay, it's closer... but still not good enough. With no CDMA, I can't use it on my Verizon account.

And I agree that while cameras may be okay accessories, they are better off being add-on accessories, for those of us who--in my case--don't want or need a camera (more than you might think), those who travel in areas that forbid cameras (growing every day), or those who want something better than the cheesy cameras that come on these things. I'm very disappointed in how few high-end phones without cameras there are to choose from, like DMY, and I'd like to see more variety in my choices.

And $650? Not on my watch, dude. So add CDMA, lose the camera and deduct $200, and we'll talk.

I'll keep watching. Sooner or later, someone will get it right.

[Pony99CA]

At my local Verizon store, I'd say that most of the phones don't have cameras (although I bought one that does).
Look at Verizon's demographic..... the vast majority of their users are business contracts... business phones, no camera.
Care to cite where you get those demographcs? I'd be surprised if the "vast majority" of users are business users. As far as I know, Verizon has a large consumer presence -- even here in Hollister (a town of only 35,000 or so people), we have two Verizon stores.


I understand the desire for not having a camera in a phone, but I think a better way to handle things is to trust your employees and escort your visitors. You shouldn't have to give up your cell phone (or PDA) just because it happens to have a camera.

National security installations and certain corporate locations are another matter, but they shouldn't be getting visitors anyway, and employees probably know the rules.
Too true.... but you (by your signature) live in Silicon valley.... HP, Apple, IBM, Intel, AMD, Cadence, NOKIA (?!?), Microsoft are a short list of places I've been in the past couple of months where I've seen signs banning phones with cameras.... all of them for Visitors, most for Employees as well.
Many workplaces have banned cameras for a long time, so banning camera phones just seems like an extension of that. However, I agree with Janek that these policies will need to change (at least for employees) as camera phones become more pervasive.

As for visitors, I don't get the restriction. Unless you let a visitor roam around your site unescorted and have sensitive information there, what's the point in banning cameras? Just make sure they don't take pictures. If you're in a sensitive area, and the visitor needs to make or take a phone call and has a camera phone, just tell them to leave the area first.

Steve

[chunkymonkey75]

The company that I work for has defense contracts with the US government. I perfectly understand the ban of all cameras and PDA's and phones with cameras. But why would the majority of other types of companies have that ban?

[Pony99CA]

The company that I work for has defense contracts with the US government. I perfectly understand the ban of all cameras and PDA's and phones with cameras. But why would the majority of other types of companies have that ban?
There are likely several reasons, but the biggest is probably to avoid industrial espionage, either by spies, employees who leave to work for a competitor or disgruntled employees who got fired and want revenge.

Many companies treat things like product plans, customer lists and even internal phone directories as confidential.

If an employee has access to the data, though, it would be much easier to E-mail it out. If the data is printed, it could be photocopied and carried out.

Steve

[dmy]

Care to cite where you get those demographcs? I'd be surprised if the "vast majority" of users are business users. As far as I know, Verizon has a large consumer presence -- even here in Hollister (a town of only 35,000 or so people), we have two Verizon stores.
Unfortunatly most of the research sites out there charge for their information (Kagan, InStat/MDR, etc...) to the tune of $2K-$3K. However, in a May 2004 report, The Yankee Group was nice enough to synopsize for me: (https://www.yankeegroup.com/public/news_releases/news_release_detail.jsp?ID=PressReleases/news_04122004_wmec_2.htm)
Verizon Wireless has the leading market share among all business users, defined broadly as combined corporate-liable, corporate-sponsored, and personally acquired expensed subscribers. A merged Cingular Wireless and AT&T Wireless would own the top spot, however.
Now.... I'll admit that doesn't address who owns the market share of "consumers", and I couldn't find a free location that redily had that.... but to summarize one survey I read recently, T-Mobile owns the market share in consumer wireless service, however they're one of 2 multi-national companies and own a large market share of all Europe wireless services, so that's not completely "real" in the context of our conversation (the #2 global spot is owned by NTT-DoCoMo). In the US, Cingular, Sprint, and T-Mobile own the top 3 spots for consumers, followed by Verizon and Nextel.

Many workplaces have banned cameras for a long time, so banning camera phones just seems like an extension of that. However, I agree with Janek that these policies will need to change (at least for employees) as camera phones become more pervasive.

As for visitors, I don't get the restriction. Unless you let a visitor roam around your site unescorted and have sensitive information there, what's the point in banning cameras? Just make sure they don't take pictures. If you're in a sensitive area, and the visitor needs to make or take a phone call and has a camera phone, just tell them to leave the area first.

Steve

Oh, please don't misunderstand..... I'm not disagreeing with you. I think the new push to have digital cameras and cell phone cameras make a loud and distinctive sound when they take a photo is a direct result of some of this. Again, in my "other life" I'm a photographer.... and while it's not the subject style that appeals to me I find it humorous that photographers who shoot reportage' (read that... "street candids") have for years mastered the surreptitious photograph. I own a Leica which is known for it's silence and un-obtrusiveness, and Henri-Carter Bresson has been the penultimate master of "shooting from the hip" since the early 1900s. On the other hand, I shoot mainly with my Toyo view camera.... with it's 4x5 inch negatives, bellows, and me under a dark-cloth composing and focusing it's about as obvious as you can get.

Cheers,
D.

[WyattEarp]

The company that I work for has defense contracts with the US government. I perfectly understand the ban of all cameras and PDA's and phones with cameras. But why would the majority of other types of companies have that ban?

Research in itself is a sensitive topic for most companies. You wouldn't another company or person stealing your R&D that you've spent the last year working on regardless of what it was for would you.

Because of such programs the biggest problem is actually just taking general pictures of abuilding or area. Which in turn will allow someone to draw up a map of that building complete with most if not all entry ways and exits. It's harder to keep sensitive information if everyone knows exactly where it is. If you know what the sensitive item is and not where then it makes it harder to steal.

It's must harder for a person make a map from memory. Try it. One day while out your house, and are at work make a map of your home, inside and out. See how long it takes and how many mistakes you make. Now imagine someone going into a building just once or multiple times to make a map from memory of the entire building and surrounding area compared to someone who took pictures of just about everything.

[Janak Parekh]

Nope.... apparently they've got one in the wings, but none yet. BTW: Look at Verizon's demographic..... the vast majority of their users are business contracts... business phones, no camera.
While Verizon is pretty successful businesswise, I'm pretty sure this is not the reason. Instead, Verizon has been very slow to adopt advanced color/camera phones in general. They've now added a third camera phone, and I think you'll see the trend spread.

--janak

[Jonathon Watkins]

This Inq strory (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16085) talks about the US banning Caneraphones in Iraq.

BOLTING THE STABLE door after the horse has bolted, US Defence secretary has banned the use of cameraphones by US forces in Iraq. The Business quotes a source inside the Pentagon as saying that the United States suspects that a significant number of the digital photos and videos of prisoner abuse seeping out of Iraq were taken using cameraphones.
This isn't the first time a cameraphone ban has been instituted. The INQ reported as long as go as 2002 that health clubs were banning usage of such devices in changing rooms for fear they'd be misused by paedophiles


Now this is one particular example, but I doubt that companies will be more open as has been suggested. I believe that *more* companies will ban camera phones - and PDAs with built in cameras, making more important that most PDAs do *NOT* come with them built in.

[Janak Parekh]

Now this is one particular example, but I doubt that companies will be more open as has been suggested. I believe that *more* companies will ban camera phones - and PDAs with built in cameras, making more important that most PDAs do *NOT* come with them built in.
In my opinion, this is an extreme example, and they would have the ability to carry such an example out. I repeat -- banning PDAs with cameras is not a sufficient solution. If someone surreptitiously wants to take pictures, he or she has an increasing arsenal of discreet devices to do so with. For example, Casio's WQV-10 (http://world.casio.com/asia/wat/collections/wrist_net/wrist_camera10/). It's low-resolution, but it's only a start. The only way to truly safely avoid surreptitious pictures is to ban all electronics...

--janak

p.s. Let's avoid any political discussion on this thread -- any discussions of the Iraq situation will be deleted. You've been warned. ;)

[nosmohtac]

Does anyone here know what the iPAQ smar slot is?
Is it a mini USB, or something new?
I would love to have it if it's a mini USB.
I am guessing that the specs are reversed on the 4700. Depending on where you look, one says 64MB RAM 128MB ROM and others say the opposite. What do you think?