Iriver and ipod

[Trimac20]

Wells its a bit overdue, but I week ago I purchased the iriver ihp120 a week ago - in my opinion the BEST MP3 player out there. Perhaps with my ipaq the best purchase I have made. I'm not advertising for iriver, but just a note for all you potential ipod-owners. Don't be sucked in my the Apple marketing machine. Any unbiased forum will reveal the truth:

Ipod, no FM tuner, no recording, sound quality not the best (I've personally heard a variety of music on a 3G ipod, and can compare it to a poor flash player), few EQ settings, must use itunes to transfer music (only AAC and MP3 format), and the big one- battery life a meagre 8 hours (usually 6 or less hours)!, no LCD remote. Well, I could go on and on.

And the iriver? In-line recording, FM tuner, uncomparable sound quality with tons of EQ settings - including SRS, Firmware upgradable, LCD remote, and 16 hours battery life! Also ability to use as an external hard-drive! I'm happy I got the iriver over the ipod, just wanted to share my opinion.

So don't be lured by the ipod's mesmerising looks 8O, its a bit like a porcelain doll: it may look beautiful but is absolutely useless when it comes to ACTUALLY doing anything. Although I must say it isn't a BAD music player, along with most of Apple's products. The ipod is, in my opinion, an over-exposed piece of minimalist borgeous...the MP3 player of the populace mainstream who don't know any better.

[marlof]

Some counterweignt. ;)

For all you potential iPod owners out there: I have one, and I love it. I love the looks, I love the user interface, I love the way it syncs with my favorite jukebox (iTunes), I love the way it can play (ha! if only I could buy) music from the iTunes Music Store. Sure, the iRiver has tons of additional functionality. But I, for one, don't use recording or FM Radio, and I most certainly don't use an equalizer. So I guess it's all about deciding what *you* want. But Trimac 20 is right in that it's great that there are other options out there, and it might be good to check them out before you make your decision.

[Zack Mahdavi]

Trimac, congrats on your purchase. You'll really like the iRiver.

However, don't bash the iPod. Personally, I love my 2G device. Remember, the iPod is smaller and lighter than your iRiver (correct me if I'm wrong), and the sound quality is one of the biggest selling points of the iPod. Maybe you were listening to some music on the stock headphones. iTunes is a great program, and although you can only use AAC or MP3, I don't think that's such a big deal. Plus, the user interface on the iPod is incredible... so simple and so fast. Also, the iPod does have upgradeable firmware (and Apple has already released a couple updates) and it can function as an external hard drive. In fact, if you have a Mac, you can store your home directory on your iPod and walk between Macs with your home directory in your pocket. It's pretty amazing.

Sure, the iPod has mesmerizing looks, but it's not like cotton candy. There's some substance behind that volume, I promise you that!

Anyway, you'll really enjoy your iRiver. It's a very nice device!

[Janak Parekh]

Just to nitpick a little... I agree on most of your points, but I'd like to disagree with a couple.

sound quality not the best (I've personally heard a variety of music on a 3G ipod, and can compare it to a poor flash player)
Here I disagree. The iPod does have a very limited EQ, and I'd say the iPAQ is a better audio player qualitywise, but not by much. Lots of tests have shown the iPod does have good frequency response.

must use itunes to transfer music (only AAC and MP3 format)
No, you don't have to use iTunes.

And the iriver? In-line recording, FM tuner, uncomparable sound quality with tons of EQ settings - including SRS, Firmware upgradable, LCD remote, and 16 hours battery life!
And bigger, and a lousy UI (at least, with the iHP-140 -- and yes, that's my opinion), no iTunes support, no Firewire and/or single-cable charging support, no Dock, no accessories that the iPod supports...

Also ability to use as an external hard-drive!
The iPod has had this from day 1, as well. Standard USB or Firewire Mass Storage Device. No drivers needed. :)

it may look beautiful but is absolutely useless when it comes to ACTUALLY doing anything.
Er, I use it everyday.

Congratulations on your purchase, but it's not quite so clear-cut as you suggest... ;)

--janak

[Trimac20]

I can see where you're coming from (I too used to want an ipod), but I just had to say a few things. And for my rebuttals...

And bigger, and a lousy UI (at least, with the iHP-140 -- and yes, that's my opinion), no iTunes support, no Firewire and/or single-cable charging support, no Dock, no accessories that the iPod supports...


Bigger? If you're troubled by less than a gram. And in dimensions, while the iriver is slightly wider and taller, the ipod is actually a tad wider. Although the difference is so subtle it's no noticeable and basically not an issue.
To me the UI is extremely intuitive (maybe not compared to the ipod) just search by artist/genre/etc or use the file tree organised by artist/track: it couldn't be easier. Anyone with basic computer skills will find it no trouble at all (I admit it takes a little time to get to grips with).
No iTunes support? Who needs it (or any software) when file transfer can be done directly with Explorer. So you can get music from virtually any USB-equipped PC with Windows 98/2000/Xp and Macs with OS 9.0 up.

Why would you need Firewire when the iriver supports superfast USB 2.0, and as for accessories, that's another area where the iriver is better value for money. The thing is, you don't really need any accessories because the functions which Apple (or endorsed 3rd-party manufacturers, namely Belkin) make you pay addition $$$ for are built into the iriver. For example, the iriver has a built in internal mic with the ability to connect an external stereo microphone. Hear that, stereo recordings. While here in Australia the Belkin voice recorder, which only records in mono-WAV (the Iriver has inbuilt MP3 encoding) is an extra $100. Now let's move on to the leather case: not included with the ipod, and costs an extra $40. While you get a very good quality leather case with the iriver.

But in the end its up to the consumer to choose, and while you might choose the ipod I just think the Iriver is MUCH better value for money (and not advertised enough player)for less (the same functionality will cost a few extra hundred dollars in the ipod), and apart from a UI which would make techhies ashamed to use it and on the fly playlist functionality (which will soon be included in iriver firmware), there is no good reason to buy the ipod.

The legend of Iriver does indeed continue... :D

[Janak Parekh]

Bigger? If you're troubled by less than a gram.
Hmm. iRiver doesn't have the size readily on their page, so I had to dig around for it. It turns out the iHP-140, which is the one I've handled, is quite a bit thicker -- 0.9" is too much for me. The iPod, which is .62-.73", is perfect, and the iHP-120 is indeed .7". So I'll just say that the 40GB model is much thicker than its counterpart... ;)

To me the UI is extremely intuitive (maybe not compared to the ipod) just search by artist/genre/etc or use the file tree organised by artist/track: it couldn't be easier.
Well, two examples that I saw when playing with the iHP-140: try scrolling through ~ 300 albums and see how long it takes holding the d-pad down... and I found the "push-and-hold" metaphor to enter and exit the settings menu cumbersome. The touch wheel is quite a bit superior in that regard.

No iTunes support? Who needs it (or any software) when file transfer can be done directly with Explorer.
iTunes is just an awesome jukebox, that's all. Having music sync is a wonderful thing -- just rip or buy music with one click, and then just drop the iPod, and it automatically figures out what tracks have changed, and syncs them. It may sound unimportant, but when you've got thousands of tracks and you're editing ID3 tags, etc., it's incredibly convenient. I've used non-syncing devices before, too, so I know both perspectives. ;)

Macs with OS 9.0 up. Why would you need Firewire when the iriver supports superfast USB 2.0
Except, without Firewire support, you're never going to use most Macs, which have USB 1.1.

Why would you need Firewire when the iriver supports superfast USB 2.0, and as for accessories, that's another area where the iriver is better value for money.
I don't agree. For example, the iTrip -- an FM broadcaster -- integrates nicely with the iPod. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the iHP series don't have FM broadcasting capabilities built-in. There are other examples...

For example, the iriver has a built in internal mic with the ability to connect an external stereo microphone. Hear that, stereo recordings.
Agreed on this... although I never have needed to record, myself, I could see it useful for concert recording, etc.

While you get a very good quality leather case with the iriver.
I was unimpressed with both the iRiver and the iPod cases. ;) My officemate, like me, ditched his case after a few days and carries his iHP-140 "naked".

But in the end its up to the consumer to choose, and while you might choose the ipod I just think the Iriver is MUCH better value for money
All I can say is that value is subjective. ;) My officemate disagrees with me -- he's of the same opinion as you regarding the iHP-140 -- and that's fine...

--janak

[Trimac20]

Sorry but I just couldn't help myself :D



I don't agree. For example, the iTrip -- an FM broadcaster -- integrates nicely with the iPod. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the iHP series don't have FM broadcasting capabilities built-in. There are other examples...

In case you're not aware, ANY audio device with a standard 3.5" stereo headphone jack (or a smaller one with an adapter) has the capability to broadcast to FM bandwitch. The analogue audio signal coming out of the device is immediately converted into radio-waves and picked up to the nearest receiver. One trick if you have an iriver: turn it to the FM mode, and broadcast a station to different frequency (ie. another station) on a nearby radio. It'll certainly confuse many!


I was unimpressed with both the iRiver and the iPod cases. My officemate, like me, ditched his case after a few days and carries his iHP-140 "naked".



I've heard a few criticise the iHPs cases (even on the iriver forums), but on the whole people praise them for their excellent quality. I was just wondering why exactly you were unimpressed with the iriver case? To me its a very well-constructed, real-leather case which is padded more than most. I have only two minor quarks with it: the hole for the usb port on the bottom leaves it exposed to dust,etc: perhaps a flap or cover could be included to protect it.
When removing the player (Although I virtually never have to owing to the cases' excellent design) the joystick gets stuck in the plastic hole: but little can be do about that, and all this is just nitpicking.

And a last note, the Iriver's tested battery life is almost 16 hours, twice the ipods 8. You have to buy a battery pack costing an extra AU$100 which extends the battery life to about 16 hours. So, let's see. In Aus a 20GB ipod is $598, and the same iriver is the same price (well, $599). If you want in the ipod what you get built into the iriver (Actually only a fraction of it).

ipod ($598) + battery pack ($99) + voice recorder ($89) + FM Tuner (future) approx $75 est. That's $861! Fine if you want to pay just for looks.

Anyway, there is plenty of debate between the two, and I'm happy with my iriver but I'll be happy when I see at least one iriver product for one ipod/spinoff from ipod on the store shelves, and when Apple stop using the phrase 'World's No. 1 Music player' in their advertising of the oh-so cool ipod. The main reason why the ipod is so popular is because Apple has the money to promote its product in every far corner of the world. Bloody Apple Macs! I am not a Mac-hater, but I am a PC user (yes, despite Windows' legendary bugginess) as Macs still don't have support for 99 out of 100 games out there, and about the same number of apps. They also need to start using TWO BUTTON mouses!

[Zack Mahdavi]

Why would you need Firewire when the iriver supports superfast USB 2.0, and as for accessories, that's another area where the iriver is better value for money.

Several (http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/supergeek/story/0,24330,3393571,00.html) will argue with you that Firewire is significantly faster than USB 2.0 in real life speeds. Plus, Firewire has the capability to charge and sync your iPod at the same time. USB 2.0 doesn't have enough power to do that.

Anyway, there is plenty of debate between the two, and I'm happy with my iriver but I'll be happy when I see at least one iriver product for one ipod/spinoff from ipod on the store shelves, and when Apple stop using the phrase 'World's No. 1 Music player' in their advertising of the oh-so cool ipod. The main reason why the ipod is so popular is because Apple has the money to promote its product in every far corner of the world. Bloody Apple Macs! I am not a Mac-hater, but I am a PC user (yes, despite Windows' legendary bugginess) as Macs still don't have support for 99 out of 100 games out there, and about the same number of apps. They also need to start using TWO BUTTON mouses!

Sure, Apple may have the money to promote the iPod, but don't forget that iRiver is also a very successful portable music company. They have the ability to focus on making great music players, and there's no doubt in my mind that they do. One thing that they don't have, however, are insanely awesome UI designers over at Apple. The user interface of the iPod is so incredibly wonderful, but you have to actually try it out to understand that.

Regarding the Mac comments, what does that have to do with the iPod whatsoever? Oh, and you're not a PC user, you're a Windows user. You could escape the realm of Windows' bugginess by switching to say, Linux, but then again, it doesn't support 100 out of the 100 games out there.. :)

See, there's some people in this world that don't buy a PC for gaming. They buy it for computing, and they buy a game console for gaming. Personally, I'm one of those people, as the only PC game I play nowadays is Warcraft 3.

There's also a religious war about the 1-button mouse topic. When I bought my first Mac, the first thing I did was ditch my mouse for a Logitech MX 700. I thought it was the only thing that I could use a computer sanely with. However, when I bought my second Mac (about a year ago), it was a Powerbook.. and Powerbooks have 1-button touchpads. To tell you the truth, I don't miss the second button at all. Sure, there are times when I feel like I need to right click, and that's what ctrl-click is for. But most of the time, I love the simplicity of 1 button.

The 1-button mouse forces developers to really think about their User Interfaces and to design them intuitively. This is why I never feel crippleed when I use a 1-buton mouse on a Mac. However, when I use a Windows or Linux machine, I go insane if my mouse doesn't have a scroll wheel with a button and two thumb buttons.

Again, you might not understand why a Mac uses only one button until you've tried it for yourself.

Back to the iPod vs. iRiver debate, competition is always a good thing. If companies like iRiver weren't around making very competitive products, iPods would be insanely overpriced.

So that's my 2 cents... and now back on topic! :lol:

[Janak Parekh]

In case you're not aware, ANY audio device with a standard 3.5" stereo headphone jack (or a smaller one with an adapter) has the capability to broadcast to FM bandwitch.
...yes, with an accessory. If you've seen the iTrip (http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/itrip/), though, it has a few niceties -- including drawing power from the iPod as well as being powered by it. :) Anyway, my point is that the iRiver doesn't come with every feature out of the box either -- and what set of accessories you need for each is debatable.

I've heard a few criticise the iHPs cases (even on the iriver forums), but on the whole people praise them for their excellent quality. I was just wondering why exactly you were unimpressed with the iriver case? To me its a very well-constructed, real-leather case which is padded more than most.
I just didn't care for the feel or the fact it made the device larger. The only device I use carrying cases for are those with sensitive touch screens.

And a last note, the Iriver's tested battery life is almost 16 hours, twice the ipods 8. You have to buy a battery pack costing an extra AU$100 which extends the battery life to about 16 hours.
If you need that battery life. As a matter-of-fact, the 3G iPods have closer to 7 hours of battery life in most people's real-world experiences. However, it so happens that's usually enough for me -- my ears get sore after a few hours...

ipod ($598) + battery pack ($99) + voice recorder ($89) + FM Tuner (future) approx $75 est. That's $861! Fine if you want to pay just for looks.
I don't mind you debating the whole issue, and I don't debate at all that the iRiver has more functionality out of the box, but please don't keep on saying "just for looks" without actually trying out an iPod for a bit. ;)

--janak

[Trimac20]

I have used the ipod extensively, and can't say it is a bad player. It's main strengths are good looks, interface and UI, and well that's about it. I have to admit at the start I wasn't too impressed with the sound, but then again it may be enough for most people. But when I heard the iriver for the first time, I was blown away it was as good as CD-quality with amazing bass.

Although unlike many others I didn't like the ipod's touch-sensitive buttons: it just doesn't feel right..

[GoldKey]

FYI, Amazon just dropped the price on the 40 GB Iriver. $379.99 and a $20 mail in rebate.