Brighthand: Sneak Peek at the New Generation of iPAQs

[Pat Logsdon]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.brighthand.com/article/Roadmap_of_2004_iPAQ_Models?site=PPC' target='_blank'>http://www.brighthand.com/article/R...Models?site=PPC</a><br /><br /></div>"In the second half of 2003, HP released no less than seven new iPAQ models. In fact, during that period it put out more handhelds than even the prolific handheld maker Sony. However, this practice hasn't continued this year. Many people have speculated that HP was simply waiting for the release of Windows Mobile 2003, which came just a couple months ago, to re-start its parade of new models again. Unfortunately, it turns out that those who are hoping for new iPAQs in the near future are going to be disappointed."<br /><br />Brighthand has managed to get their hands on some leaked information from HP regarding their upcoming product line-up. If the information is accurate, the future looks bright for Pocket PCs. The good news: More dual-slot devices, more RAM, VGA. The bad news: Sleeves are ditched, no photos. Here's a quick run-down of the devices:<br /><br />• hx4700: CF & SD, 128mb RAM, possible VGA, available in late July<br />• hx2700: Replacement for 555x, possible VGA, fingerprint scanner, late 2004<br />• rz1700: Replacement for 194x, mid-range, slim design, QVGA, no ETA<br />• h6310 : Phone Edition with WiFi and Bluetooth, QVGA, possible August release<br /><br />I'm glad to see the VGA and continued support for dual slots, and while the standard 128mb of RAM has been a long time coming, I'm happy to see that it's finally here. There's no word yet on the wireless capabilities of any of the "hx" or "rz" models, but I hope that HP will be able to use the same dual radio design that worked so well in the 41xx series. Personally, I hope to see a model like the hx4700 without the CF slot; I sold off all of my CF gear when I upgraded from an Axim X5.

[Don Tolson]

I'm thrilled with the specs for the HX4700 -- one of the things that bummed me out about the 4350 was the lack of CF card support. Hmmm, if one of the HX4700's has VGA, Wi-fi, bluetooth, and a keyboard, I may be handing down my 2215 to my dear wife -- who dearly needs an organizer (she an assistant director, for heavens sake!) and loves to play crazy bubbles.

[OSUKid7]

Good info. :) Now the decision process really starts. I'd love to have duel slots, especially since I'm looking at getting a CF digital camera. VGA seems like an almost necessary upgrade too. So right now I'm leaning towards the hx4700. But of course the 6310 would be nice, but that would mean dropping my Verizon plan, plus being stuck with QVGA. If the hx2700 would have CF, that'd be a great device. Guess we'll just wait and see. I wish HP would go public with this type of stuff. :|

[Bill Gunn]

"According to an unconfirmed report from a Brighthand reader who claims inside information,"

Well, if it's from an "unconfirmed.. claim," it must be true. :wink:

[Maleboligia]

4700 definitely sounds like the one I would choose(based on these rumors :D ) Guess I'll have to wait & see.

[dh]

If this is correct, the HX4700 would be close to being the perfect PPC for me, especially if it has both BT and WiFi.

The numbering of these seems to be out of step with HPs usual method though. I would have thought an HX2700 would be the next 2200 rather than 5550.

Anyway, I do hope that HP is really bringing out something new and exciting - it's about time!

[Palmguy]

"According to an unconfirmed report from a Brighthand reader who claims inside information,"

Well, if it's from an "unconfirmed.. claim," it must be true. :wink:

Who cares? We can hope, can't we?

[SeanH]

The HX4700 sounds good to me. I wish it did not have a CF slot. With built in WiFi and Bluetooth there is not a need for CF. SDIO is perfect for storage and all the peripherals can use wireless Bluetooth. CF memory has a price advantage today but that will change very rapidly. CF and SDIO memory is going to follow the DRAM trend. DDR used to cost more then SDRAM because DDR was not selling in volumes in the beginning. Now DDR is mainstream and cost a lot less then SDRAM for the same density.

Sean

[Dermot81]

What is QVGA, is that better or worse than VGA? Is that better or worse or same as what I have in my HP2215?

[Pat Logsdon]

What is QVGA, is that better or worse than VGA? Is that better or worse or same as what I have in my HP2215?
QVGA is what your 2215's screen is. The resolution of QVGA is 240x320. The resolution of VGA is 480x640. 8)

[The Yaz]

The Hx4700 looks like HP's answer to the ASUS 730. Until we can get these PDA's in our hands, I'm not ready to pick my next purchase. I love the Toshiba E805 because of the VGA but it is a 4" screen. ASUS with a 3.7" screen maybe too small to enjoy the resolution.

We'll see.

Steve 8)

[SeanH]

What is QVGA, is that better or worse than VGA? Is that better or worse or same as what I have in my HP2215?
QCIF 176x144
CIF 320x240
QVGA 352x288
VGA 640x480
SVGA 800x600
XGA 1024x768
SXGA 1280x960
UXGA 1600x1200
QXGA 2048x1536

The HP2215 is 320x240

Sean

[goirish!!]

What is QVGA, is that better or worse than VGA? Is that better or worse or same as what I have in my HP2215?
QCIF 176x144
CIF 320x240
QVGA 352x288
VGA 640x480
SVGA 800x600
XGA 1024x768
SXGA 1280x960
UXGA 1600x1200
QXGA 2048x1536

The HP2215 is 320x240

Sean

I hate to get too far off topic, but now I am wondering as a comparison where does the 1910 fall? I know that it has one of the best screens on the market, but how will the new one's look in relationship to this unit?

[SeanH]

I hate to get too far off topic, but now I am wondering as a comparison where does the 1910 fall? I know that it has one of the best screens on the market, but how will the new one's look in relationship to this unit?
All PPC’s shipped in the last 4 years have a 320x240 display except the new Toshiba e805 it has 640x480 display.

Sean

[Dermot81]

Oh so the new HP Pocket PC Phone will have a slightly higher resolution than my 2215, is that what you are saying?

[johncruise]

somebody needs to tell hp folks that there are people who wants to have usb hosting integrated into their unit as well.

[Zack Mahdavi]

Maybe it's just me, but none of these devices seem that exciting to me. They all seem to be just current models with slightly new features (basically more RAM and VGA on some models). Hopefully, these devices will feature some true CLIE-style innovation. We'll have to wait and see.. :)

[Don Tolson]

The HX4700 sounds good to me. I wish it did not have a CF slot. With built in WiFi and Bluetooth there is not a need for CF. SDIO is perfect for storage and all the peripherals can use wireless Bluetooth.
Sean

Ah... but some of us have CF peripherals already (camera, radio, etc.) that we would like to keep using. It's not just memory, you know.

[SeanH]

I want to upgrade my PDA with a PDA with VGA, Bluetooth and WiFi very soon. It hard to belive no one is shipping a unit yet.

The abilty to do this over WiFi or GPRS over Bluetooth using your cell would be great.
http://www.pocketpctools.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid2=974&mode=&order=0&thold=0

Sean

[jasondearyou]

I'm glad to see the VGA and continued support for dual slots, and while the standard 128mb of RAM has been a long time coming, I'm happy to see that it's finally here. There's no word yet on the wireless capabilities of any of the "hx" or "rz" models, but I hope that HP will be able to use the same dual radio design that worked so well in the 41xx series. Personally, I hope to see a model like the hx4700 without the CF slot; I sold off all of my CF gear when I upgraded from an Axim X5.


Have you lost your mind?

Please, for further reference don't mention the fact that you would like to see something WITHOUT CF. Its offensive. I didn't sell my CF camera, my CF radio even when i didn't have my h2215 anymore, and I would only be buying or would highly prefer to purchase handhelds that have CF in them, it's a must have.

:snipersmile: Just had to get that off my chest. I'm ready for a duel anyday. 0X :devilboy: :D [/b][/b]

[SeanH]

[Have you lost your mind?

Please, for further reference don't mention the fact that you would like to see something WITHOUT CF. Its offensive. I didn't sell my CF camera, my CF radio even when i didn't have my h2215 anymore, and I would only be buying or would highly prefer to purchase handhelds that have CF in them, it's a must have.
CF replaced PCMCIA cards, SDIO is replacing CF cards. Out with the old, in with the new. CF makes a PDA to bulky and with built in WiFi for networking, Bluetooth for peripherals, and SDIO for storage we no longer need PCMCIA cards or CF cards.

Sean

[Pat Logsdon]

Have you lost your mind?
It's around here somewhere, I'm sure... :mrgreen:

Please, for further reference don't mention the fact that you would like to see something WITHOUT CF. Its offensive. I didn't sell my CF camera, my CF radio even when i didn't have my h2215 anymore, and I would only be buying or would highly prefer to purchase handhelds that have CF in them, it's a must have.

:snipersmile: Just had to get that off my chest. I'm ready for a duel anyday. 0X :devilboy:
No need for a duel - if that works for you, great. I just see CF as being on the way out. I had quite a few CF accessories (camera, BT, WiFi, & GPS) for my Axim, and I was able to replace them all. My cell phone's camera is easier and faster to use AND takes better pictures than the CF camera, BT and WiFi are built into my shiny new 4150, and I now have a BT GPS unit that is faster and more accurate than the CF unit I had. It also doesn't drain the battery of my PPC.

(down with cf!) :twisted:

[huangzhinong]

[Have you lost your mind?

Please, for further reference don't mention the fact that you would like to see something WITHOUT CF. Its offensive. I didn't sell my CF camera, my CF radio even when i didn't have my h2215 anymore, and I would only be buying or would highly prefer to purchase handhelds that have CF in them, it's a must have.
CF replaced PCMCIA cards, SDIO is replacing CF cards. Out with the old, in with the new. CF makes a PDA to bulky and with built in WiFi for networking, Bluetooth for peripherals, and SDIO for storage we no longer need PCMCIA cards or CF cards.

Sean

The highest capacity of SD memory card is still 1gb while CF bump to 14gb now. SD will replace CF in the far feature, but CF is still a good addon for handheld now. Most of people here update their toys more than once per year, so as long as CF is not out of date so far, it's still a profitable market.

HP has good tradition using CF.

[Ryan Joseph]

(down with cf!) :twisted:

Pandora's Box has been opened. That statement is going to start it all. Here come the heated arguments. :D

Just to put my own neck on the line...I don't like CF either. The only advantage is that there are currently more devices available for CF (GPS, Radio, etc.) But these are all coming in Bluetooth.

You know, I like the era we're living in right now. Innovation and new devices are so cool. That's why I like this site! If I were born a hundred years ago, there wouldn't be much technology, and if I were born a hundred years from now, all the cool gadgets would be so commonplace that we'd take them for granted. I like seeing them come out and being impressed by them. :mrgreen:

[dh]

The HX4700 sounds good to me. I wish it did not have a CF slot. With built in WiFi and Bluetooth there is not a need for CF. SDIO is perfect for storage and all the peripherals can use wireless Bluetooth. CF memory has a price advantage today but that will change very rapidly. CF and SDIO memory is going to follow the DRAM trend. DDR used to cost more then SDRAM because DDR was not selling in volumes in the beginning. Now DDR is mainstream and cost a lot less then SDRAM for the same density.

Sean
I have to disagree with you on memory. CF memory continues to be a better deal than SD. A 1GB CF card can easily be found for about $160.00 but the same in SD is still nearly $300.00. To be sure, SD memory prices are heading downward, but the same applies to CF. Compact Flash seems to offer the best chance of larger capacity as well, whether as flash or mini HD formats.

I'm currently using a 1GB CF and a 512 MB SD cards, both of which are nearly full. The CF with music and books, the SD with Wikipedia, maps and documents. I for one could not think about a single slot PPC unless there are larger SD cards (2 GB or more would be nice) and much lower pricing. :)

[whydidnt]

Putting aside the CF vs. SD debate for a moment....

I'm most disappointed that we apparently won't see anything new from HP until July at the earliest. Of course it's sounding like it may be that late or later before we seen ANY second edition devices. :evil:

[SeanH]

The highest capacity of SD memory card is still 1gb while CF bump to 14gb now. SD will replace CF in the far feature, but CF is still a good addon for handheld now. Most of people here update their toys more than once per year, so as long as CF is not out of date so far, it's still a profitable market.

I have to disagree with you on memory. CF memory continues to be a better deal than SD. A 1GB CF card can easily be found for about $160.00 but the same in SD is still nearly $300.00. To be sure, SD memory prices are heading downward, but the same applies to CF.
I purchased the 4 year old PDA I am using now Oct 2000 and had a choice of buying a 1GB CF card for $500 with a sleeve or a 4GB PCMCIA card for $450 with even a bigger sleeve. I knew at the time PCMCIA drives were going to be replaced with CF so I choose the 1GB and the smaller sleeve. Here is a pic from 2000 www.mbu.com/ipaq/ I hacked the sleeve down to nothing because I wanted a small PDA.

Four years later CF and SDIO are in the same predicament. CF offers larger densities and a lower price today but that will change rapidly as it did with CF and PCMCIA.

Storage always gets smaller, cheaper and more dense. I used to have a 5MB 5 ¼ full height Wincher HD drive that was over $1000. Times change, today you can get the new Hitatchi 400GB 7200 RPM 3.5” 1”H 3 ½” drive for $350

It would have been nice if the camera industry followed the PDA industry for memory cards. They have to deal with smart media, MMC/SDIO, CF, Sony memory stick and xD cards.

Sean

[huangzhinong]

The highest capacity of SD memory card is still 1gb while CF bump to 14gb now. SD will replace CF in the far feature, but CF is still a good addon for handheld now. Most of people here update their toys more than once per year, so as long as CF is not out of date so far, it's still a profitable market.

I have to disagree with you on memory. CF memory continues to be a better deal than SD. A 1GB CF card can easily be found for about $160.00 but the same in SD is still nearly $300.00. To be sure, SD memory prices are heading downward, but the same applies to CF.
I purchased the 4 year old PDA I am using now Oct 2000 and had a choice of buying a 1GB CF card for $500 with a sleeve or a 4GB PCMCIA card for $450 with even a bigger sleeve. I knew at the time PCMCIA drives were going to be replaced with CF so I choose the 1GB and the smaller sleeve. Here is a pic from 2000 www.mbu.com/ipaq/ I hacked the sleeve down to nothing because I wanted a small PDA.

Four years later CF and SDIO are in the same predicament. CF offers larger densities and a lower price today but that will change rapidly as it did with CF and PCMCIA.

Storage always gets smaller, cheaper and more dense. I used to have a 5MB 5 ¼ full height Wincher HD drive that was over $1000. Times change, today you can get the new Hitatchi 400GB 7200 RPM 3.5” 1”H 3 ½” drive for $350

It would have been nice if the camera industry followed the PDA industry for memory cards. They have to deal with smart media, MMC/SDIO, CF, Sony memory stick and xD cards.

Sean

It's true if you use the same PDA for 4 years!!!! But can you predict SD will still dominate after 4 years?

I only use currect technology.

[moaske]

The highest capacity of SD memory card is still 1gb while CF bump to 14gb now. SD will replace CF in the far feature, but CF is still a good addon for handheld now....
Don't tell me you've got one of these baby's... Can you seriously afford a 14GB CF ? And do you need that much memory at all ? Might as well carry a 20GB HDD then as well ;) :mrgreen:
No seriously; you're so wrong... I can't speak for your side of the great lake, but over here in europe SD and CF is almost (almost...!) on a par regarding price. In volumes it has surpassed the CF for about 2 months now... It's defenitely the new thing.
And think of this: hasn't the whole community been whining about bulky PDA's ? Now they're finally gone (thanks to SD), you all won't let go of that good ol' CF :D Com'on: move on !
Just my 2 cents on that :mrgreen:

[Mark Johnson]

"....it turns out that those who are hoping for new iPAQs in the near future are going to be disappointed."

• hx4700: CF & SD, 128mb RAM, possible VGA, available in late July
• hx2700: Replacement for 555x, possible VGA, fingerprint scanner, late 2004


Bummer!!! They're only going VGA on 2 units. Arugh!! The 555x series is way to big to be pocketable, so the hx2700 is out. And if the hx4700 has CF, then it's probably a brick too...

What a waste. Still nothing to get me to give up my 1910. This is becoming a bad joke.

[SeanH]

It's true if you use the same PDA for 4 years!!!! But can you predict SD will still dominate after 4 years?
I make that prediction based on current market share. All PDA’s Palm and PPC have been shipping with a SD/MMC slot for over a year except the Sony units that use the Sony memory stick. Many units have been shipping with a SD/MMC for over two years. All the new Palm and MobilePC phones have SD/MMC slots. I know there are units that ship with both CF and SD. There are many memory standards for the camera industry but there is no reason to use them on a PDA. As far as I know there is not a new memory standard on the horizon that is going to make SD obsolete. Based on that information SDIO makes the most sense if you plan on keep your PDA for many years to come.

I only use currect technology.
Does this mean you upgrade your PDA every year or you only use the current memory technology?

I had the same Palm for 5 years because at the time there was nothing better, and Palm did not change there OS a lot over the 5 years I had it. http://mbu.com/palm/ I upgrade from Palm to PPC Oct 2000 and that is my current PDA. Its a 3650 running PPC 2K2. PPC has had very little changes over the last 4 years. The hardware has not changed a lot, the PXA255 at 400MHz is not a lot faster then the 206MHz SA1110 in my old iPAQ. Most PDA’s shipping today have 64MB compared to the 32MB in my old iPAQ. Really there is nothing a new 4150 can do that the iPAQ 3650 can not do with a CF WiFi card or a CF Bluetooth card. VGA and intergraded WiFi and Bluetooth is a good reason to upgrade. All the apps will have 4X the screen area to work with.

Sean

[Hugh Nano]

Count me in favour of continued CF support! Not just because I have CF cards and peripherals that I would like to continue to use, but also because I don't buy the "SD will soon be just as cheap and replace CF argument".

CF is bigger than SD--a factor usually counted against it, but which (it seems to me) might well ensure that it will always remain ahead of SD in terms of maximum capacity. After all, no matter how small they shrink the basic memory circuits that the cards contain, a bigger card will always be able to hold more circuits--and thus more memory!

Along these same lines, it seems to me that enabling larger amounts of storage in PDAs is the way to go... After all, if we want a Pocket PC, the more memory is available, the more likely it is that we will really be able to use them as a personal computer on-the-go.

I would like to see Microsoft and/or its hardware makers up the ante with the Pocket PC, making some models available with a built-in hard drive like the iPod or even the new soon-to-be-released portable Playstation, which has a 1.8Gb hard-drive built-in. Then the Pocket PC's true potential as a personal media-player could be realized for a much wider audience than the tech-experts like those who trick their devices out with PCMCIA hard-drives.

Of course I'm also still waiting for the OQO to be released... Oh, well. One can always hope!

At least HP's continued CF support is a step in the right direction... In my books, anyway!

[Paula]

Hmmmmm looks like my 2215 is going to have a sibling named hx4700 later this year. I will start preparing h2215 for its arrival now, so when hx4700 comes into the family she won't be jealous. I still love you 2215. :D I also love HP for understanding that there are still those of us with dual personalities out there by giving us a new model with both SD and CF.

Paula

[paris]

CF needs to DIE. Why? in favor of a small FORM FACTOR. It’s a pocket pc for god sake its not a brick. I would like to carry my pocket pc in my pocket as I do with my mobile.

A Pocket PC WITH a CF slot is not small enough to carry in your pocket.

The smallest ppc with a CF slot is the 2210 and I had one and sold it for a 4150 which I will never change with a pocket pc which is bigger. I can carry it in my pocket even if I wear tight jeans!!!

If the new hx4700 model is the same form factor as the 4150 but with a CF then I don’t have a problem. However if they add a CF in and forget the small form factor then that is very bad news for me. I hope they do it right.

[Lday]

Sheesh!

You don't want CF, then don't buy it! The market is big enough for both formats. It is also the marketplace that will ultimately decide if CF lives or dies off. We who love our Microdrives and CF accessories are willing to pay the size premium, so just go ahead and buy your svelte little SD only units. Now how does that line go... something about giving up my CF when they pry my cold dead fingers from around it.

[alex_kac]

"....it turns out that those who are hoping for new iPAQs in the near future are going to be disappointed."

• hx4700: CF & SD, 128mb RAM, possible VGA, available in late July
• hx2700: Replacement for 555x, possible VGA, fingerprint scanner, late 2004


Bummer!!! They're only going VGA on 2 units. Arugh!! The 555x series is way to big to be pocketable, so the hx2700 is out. And if the hx4700 has CF, then it's probably a brick too...

What a waste. Still nothing to get me to give up my 1910. This is becoming a bad joke.

You don't know that. The HP2215 was one of the smallest PDAs I'd tried in a long long time and it had CF and SD.

[Hugh Nano]

CF needs to DIE. Why? in favor of a small FORM FACTOR.

A small form-factor is not the be-all and the end-all for all Pocket PC owners! Besides, hp offers a wide variety of Pocket PCs--why can't they offer at least one new one with a CF slot? Your approach seems more than a little tyrranical!

Besides, the 2210 is pretty darn small... More than small enough for my tastes. It's a good idea to remember that not everyone's tastes are the same as yours...

[paris]

CF needs to DIE. Why? in favor of a small FORM FACTOR.

A small form-factor is not the be-all and the end-all for all Pocket PC owners! Besides, hp offers a wide variety of Pocket PCs--why can't they offer at least one new one with a CF slot? Your approach seems more than a little tyrranical!

Besides, the 2210 is pretty darn small... More than small enough for my tastes. It's a good idea to remember that not everyone's tastes are the same as yours...

If you need a pocket pc with a CF slot and you dont care about the form factor that is perfer for you. However i am not happy since i am reading that the models to replace the 4xxx series are going to contain a CF slot, and i am not happy coz i know that adding a CF slot will make the ppc bigger and i dont want that. I would love to see a ppc like the 4150 with a VGA screen but not a CF slot, but that is not what i am reading and that is why i am concerned.

[ricksfiona]

One thing people haven't talked about yet is speed. 400MHz is 'okay' and VGA would rock. But at this time, I won't upgrade just because of the screen. I run a database on my PPC and 600MHz+ would upgrade my database usability rating to 'good'. Hopefully.

My iPAQ is a 5550 and I am very happy with it. With 128MB, I can use my main apps and still have plenty of memory left over. No worrying about running out.

Speed, VGA & weight/size, is the order in which I would like to see improvements.

[Kacey Green]

What is QVGA, is that better or worse than VGA? Is that better or worse or same as what I have in my HP2215?
QCIF 176x144
CIF 320x240
QVGA 352x288
VGA 640x480
SVGA 800x600
XGA 1024x768
SXGA 1280x960
UXGA 1600x1200
QXGA 2048x1536

The HP2215 is 320x240

Sean
Where did you get the numbers for QVGA?
It should read 320*240.

[Palmguy]

"....it turns out that those who are hoping for new iPAQs in the near future are going to be disappointed."

• hx4700: CF & SD, 128mb RAM, possible VGA, available in late July
• hx2700: Replacement for 555x, possible VGA, fingerprint scanner, late 2004


Bummer!!! They're only going VGA on 2 units. Arugh!! The 555x series is way to big to be pocketable, so the hx2700 is out. And if the hx4700 has CF, then it's probably a brick too...

What a waste. Still nothing to get me to give up my 1910. This is becoming a bad joke.

The hx2700 is the replacement for the 5550, not necessarily the same size though...with the exception of sleeve technology and .3" of screen size the 4150 has all the functionality of the 5550 (the 64 megs of RAM is not physical size dependent). The 2700 could theoretically be the same size as a 2200 and fit with the info that has been released. Don't get all riled up when these are the first leaks anyone has heard. You have no clue what the final product will look like for crying out loud!

And as someone already mentioned, the 2200 has CF and is no brick.

[Pat Logsdon]

Bummer!!! They're only going VGA on 2 units. Arugh!! The 555x series is way to big to be pocketable, so the hx2700 is out. And if the hx4700 has CF, then it's probably a brick too...
Keep in mind that if the sleeves are dropped, HP has no reason to keep the same thickness for their high-end devices. If I had to guess, I'd say that the hx2700 will probably be the 415x replacement - smaller form factor, VGA, one SD slot, fingerprint recognition, and hopefully 128mb RAM. With the exception of the 63xx device, which is rumoured to have a 200mhz TI OMAP processor, all of these machines will hopefully have the next generation XScale processors, which clock in between 312 and 624mhz. 8)

Please note that I'm merely speculating - I'm not basing this on any kind of inside info.

[Falstaff]

CIF 320x240
QVGA 352x288

***** You mixed up these two, they should be reversed. QVGA has 1/4 as many pixels as VGA (640x480), thus each pixel dimension is half as much.

***** As for the CF vs. SD argument, I am one that believes strongly in the value of CF cards. Even putting price aside, I think that screen resolution and the graphics cards made to keep up will be the things that will keep CompactFlash alive. With a 640x480 screen, a 624MHz processor, and one of the new mobile graphics chips, people that want to watch movies on their PPCs will want to rip at very high rates (640x480 or 640x346 for widescreen) and at very high frame rates (>=30 fps). That means a two hour action movie will take up a LOT of space, and just imagine trying to fit LOTR: The Two Towers on a 1GB SD card at those values.
***** Plus, with new great graphics engines, there will hopefully be new incredibly complex games that take advantage of the high-res displays, and with better graphics, come larger sizes for the games, which means more storage space, and for me that means more space on my SD card to store software/games. Look at computer games, I have Mortal Kombat on 2 floppies, Half-Life is over 350MB (not including mods). Also, multiplayer capabilities, which will almost certainly rise in popularity in competition with devices like the new PSP and Nintendo DS, which both have built-in wi-fi for gaming.
***** I've messed around with the e80x in stores, and I don't mind the size at all. I carry my e755 in my pocket all the time, in some clothes it is noticeable, but not when I'm wearing a pair of cargo pants/shorts, carpenter jeans, etc. I will go for a larger device if it means I will have a 4" VGA screen with the ability to fit a whole DVD and a couple hours of music onto an affordable (relatively) memory card. I also don't think that getting a 3.5" VGA screen (like the 4150 as some of you say you want a VGA screen in that size) is feasible, I think that text would get a little too small, and then you'd have to make it larger, and lose some of the ability to display lots of information on the screen that comes with a VGA screen. But as Dennis Miller would say: "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."

[jutae]

I was hoping the 6300 series would be out by mid June. I'm tired of caring a cell phone and a ppc everywhere. I have a convergent cf card but I hate having to use the wired headset.

[Shadowcat]

People are making too many assumptions. Please take note of the model numbers. The difference in naming schemes are slight, but extremely significant. The new models begin with HX, not H. The new families are called hx2700 and hx5700, not H2700 and H4100, respectively. Note also it's the hx2700 that's replacing the H5000 series. These appear to be new form factors. As others have mentioned, there's no reason for HP to keep the H5000 series form factor and they don't need to. If I were to hazard a guess I'd say the hx2700 and hx5700 will be similar in terms of specifications, with the former catering to those who want CF and the latter catering to those who want a small form factor. The model numbers don't have to relate to size and they obviously don't.

Please stop making pointless statements and arguing until we get more information or actual photos. You may argue that I made an assumption in the previous paragraph but that just demonstrates that there are many possibilities given the limited information.

As for the CF/SD debate, some people deem backward compatibility with CF cards to be the more important feature and some deem size as the overwhelming feature. If PPCT is a good sample of the population of PPC users (statistical terms), then it appears there's enough room in the market for both types of devices (once again mentioned earlier). Above all let's be sensitive to other people's priorities and desires and be tolerant; if everyone had the same ones then this would be a boring world. Let's not let the PPCT forums degrade to the levels of some other forums.

My 2 cents.

Edit:
And for the record, I own a H2210. I saw a H1900 the other day and loved its size but in the end CF is more important for me. I can see many people would consider size more important and I'm sure if I can, you can too. :wink:

[Anthony Caruana]

I just wanted to chime in on the CF vs SD debate. As far as the memory side of things goes. CF will continue to exist for a long time. In addition to cameras and PDAs there are many other devices that use CF (I sold some CF cards on ebay to someone who used them in industrial embroidery machines)

Secondly, although there are SD WiFi cards and Bluetooth is becoming standard issue there are other CF perpipherals that have not yet made their way to SDIO (at least as far as I can tell) For example, there are CF VGA cards but there is no SD equivalent yet. The same goes for bar code readers.

CF will remain to be an important part of the PDA landscape for some time.

Also, if devices are going to not ship with CF, we will need to have devices that have two SD slots.

[Jonathan1]

"

• hx4700: CF & SD, 128mb RAM, possible VGA, available in late July
• hx2700: Replacement for 555x, possible VGA, fingerprint scanner, late 2004
• rz1700: Replacement for 194x, mid-range, slim design, QVGA, no ETA
• h6310 : Phone Edition with WiFi and Bluetooth, QVGA, possible August release



Dang! I was seriously looking at the 4155 as my next PPC but was holding off waiting for VGA. I'm assuming that the 4700 is the replacement for that series?? The problem is that adding a dang CF card into the mix is going to obviously balk the thing up most likely to the size of the 2200 series something that I don't want esp considering I couldn’t care less about CF at this point.
If I had to take a wild guess. They had to bulk it up to get the GPU in it for VGA resolution and while they were at it they simply, or not so simply, added a CF slot. :cry:

[Oleander]

46 post and not one lamenting the end of sleeves?

Am I the only one with a Navman, Lifeview FlyJacket, SilverSlider, MadeByWhitney CF sleeve, Symbol Scanner sleeve, Compaq CF sleeve and a PCMCIA sleeve lying around to no use now?

Am I the only one who actually likes the form factor of the 3XXX/5XXX series?

I'm not a Compaq employee anymore and if I'm not tied by the form factor either, I'll probably take my business elsewhere. :evil:

[chunkymonkey75]

...Also, if devices are going to not ship with CF, we will need to have devices that have two SD slots.

You spoke my mind on this one! For me, I like the option of 2 slots. I want to be using a periphal in one slot and still use my installed apps on the second. As for the people that are saying the 2200 is a brick...that is a very dumb statement. Just because the 4100 is smaller doesn't automatically make the 2200 a brick. They have almost the same foot and the 2200 is only .11 in (1.9 mm) thicker.

2200 4.54 x 3.00 x 0.61 in. (115.4 x 76.4 x 15.4 mm)
4100 4.47 in x 2.78 in x 0.5 in (113.6 mm x 70.6 mm x 13.5 mm)

BTW....I just noticed the HP doesn't list SDIO support of the SD slot. Is this true?!?

[marlof]

I talked to my digital photocamera (not of the PDA persuasion, but a regular one), and he said it wants CF in my Pocket PC, so I can easily transfer images from its cards to my PPC for emailing. Most high end digital cameras don't come with an SD slot, but with a CF slot, so I'm in favor of a CF slot in my Pocket PC. Happily, it seems like HP is offering choices: CF and SD for me, SD for all of you "it should be as thin as possible" lovers. :)

[Ratel10mm]

I have a 5550, which I've come to love. 128Meg isn't enough for me! Niether, it turns out, is an additional 128M SD card! :lol: I like the large screen, as I use Excel quite a bit. VGA would really help there, as some of my fields are a bit big for the current resolution. And native landscape support I'd LOVE to have. I actually find the 5550 easily pocketable, even in a jeans front pocket (although obviously less comfortable). However, I don't have it in a case at the moment. Dual SD slots would be good, but I'm up for a unit with CF & SDIO, for all the usual reasons. I'd have definitley gone for a 22 series if it had had 128M RAM & built in wifi. I doubt that I'll be swapping my PPC anytime soon, but I do look forward to the new developments. As others are saying - who cares what the format of any one of these is, 'cos there's a format to suit almost anyone. My thought is - if you don't like what's available, then build your own PPC!

Oh yes, and hurry up with that OQO! :wink:

[jonathanchoo]

[Have you lost your mind?

Please, for further reference don't mention the fact that you would like to see something WITHOUT CF. Its offensive. I didn't sell my CF camera, my CF radio even when i didn't have my h2215 anymore, and I would only be buying or would highly prefer to purchase handhelds that have CF in them, it's a must have.
CF replaced PCMCIA cards, SDIO is replacing CF cards. Out with the old, in with the new. CF makes a PDA to bulky and with built in WiFi for networking, Bluetooth for peripherals, and SDIO for storage we no longer need PCMCIA cards or CF cards.

Sean


The highest capacity of SD memory card is still 1gb while CF bump to 14gb now. SD will replace CF in the far feature, but CF is still a good addon for handheld now. Most of people here update their toys more than once per year, so as long as CF is not out of date so far, it's still a profitable market.

HP has good tradition using CF.

But that is like saying, a desktop hardisks has 300Gb and current notebook harddisk max'ed out at 80Gb so we should use 3 1/5" HDDs in our notebooks? It does not make any sense. CF is nice but its too big for handhelds. I love my h4150 form factor and I don't want to see a CF on it. It is even weider since the h2xxx will have a CF slot why should the h47xx should.

[SeanH]

But that is like saying, a desktop hardisks has 300Gb and current notebook harddisk max'ed out at 80Gb so we should use 3 1/5" HDDs in our notebooks? It does not make any sense. CF is nice but its too big for handhelds.I agree 100%. I think a lot of people that post CF is here for life have not been around to witness the technology evolution. They think that we should still use a 5 ¼ hard drives in our desk PC because its bigger and can hold more. They think we should still be using ISA cards in our PC because there old PC used them and they still have ISA cards. They would want Fast Page or EDO DRAM in there PC because they wanted to move it from there old PPC. They fight for the need for huge CF cards in there PPC but did not own a PDA when even huger PCMCIA cards were the standard form factor of portable devices. CF is going away its part of the technology evolution, no one can stop it. I have read post about the lack of SDIO peripherals, Bluetooth fixes that. On a PDA with SDIO for storage, built in WiFi and Bluetooth you do not need CF. If you need a bar code reader get a Bluetooth version.

Sean

[Christian]

To chime in on the CF/SD debate... I sincerely hope that the PocketPC vendors don't make the mistake of eliminating CF slots, because I agree that CF is here to stay. People seem to forget that the PDA market pales in comparison to other devices that use memory cards. Not a single high end prosumer digital camera uses an SD slot. Not a single digital SLR uses an SD slot. I just bought a 2GB Microdrive for my new A2, because I couldn't afford a 4GB drive. Would I have rather bought a 512MB SD card with an adapter for about the same price? Take a guess. These devices have no need to minituarize, and if even CF cards were only 10% cheaper or higher capacity, it would make no sense to switch to SD. I for one am not interested in buying a second memory card for my PDA.

I'm sure that SD will eventually replace CF in such devices, but that is years away - and hence multiple generations of new PocketPCs.

[Jason Dunn]

Oh so the new HP Pocket PC Phone will have a slightly higher resolution than my 2215, is that what you are saying?

Not slightly higher - 400% higher resolution. Trust me, it will blow you away - things look SO much nicer at that resolution. :-) But don't be confused into thinking that you'll have 400% more screen space as some of the screen shots from the Toshiba have indicated - you have the same screen space, but things will just look much, much smoother and sharper.

[Casio Collector]

46 post and not one lamenting the end of sleeves?

Am I the only one with a Navman, Lifeview FlyJacket, SilverSlider, MadeByWhitney CF sleeve, Symbol Scanner sleeve, Compaq CF sleeve and a PCMCIA sleeve lying around to no use now?

Am I the only one who actually likes the form factor of the 3XXX/5XXX series?

I'm not a Compaq employee anymore and if I'm not tied by the form factor either, I'll probably take my business elsewhere. :evil:

I AGREE!!! - I just love the look of my H5450 and the sleeves (apart from the fact it takes off the paint!!!).

I really do find sleeves useful, and I support CF (as I have had 2 CF with no downtimes at all, and 3 SD Cards, all with errors!!)

Until SD is sorted out as a format, CF is the most reliable out there...

[OSUKid7]

Oh so the new HP Pocket PC Phone will have a slightly higher resolution than my 2215, is that what you are saying?

Not slightly higher - 400% higher resolution. Trust me, it will blow you away - things look SO much nicer at that resolution. :-) But don't be confused into thinking that you'll have 400% more screen space as some of the screen shots from the Toshiba have indicated - you have the same screen space, but things will just look much, much smoother and sharper.
wait a second wait a second

the "new HP Pocket PC Phope" - as in the H6000 series? That still has QVGA I thought, which will be the same resolution as the 2215 (not sure on the actual screen size).

[Jason Dunn]

Some interesting thoughts on the SD vs CF, and I'm glad it didn't get TOO heated. Here's what I think...

CF is going to have a long shelf life, and it's not fair to look at how fast PCMCIA faded away and say that's what will happen to CF. The reason is the "small enough" argument. I believe there were some early high-end digital cameras that took PCMCIA cards, but it was the wrong technology )too big, too power-hungry) and didn't last long. CF cards are the right size and the right technology, and have a huge entrenchment in the digital photography world. SD is slowly but surely taking over in many places, but it's not a complete boot-stomping that CF to PCMCIA was.

The other thing is that, size-wise, SD and CF will always be in competition in medium-sized devices. SD will win in phones and most PDA/MP3 scenarios, but camera support for CF will be around for a long, long time in mid and large-size cameras (the smallest cameras will only ever support SD or xD). Most mid to large cameras will end up supporting both in the near term. And the reality is that whatever capacity can be reached in SD can be 400% righer in CF with no increase in manufacturing costs. SD has the uphill and costly battle of miniturizing the flash memory that can easily fit in CF. For that reason CF will likely always be less expensive.

If this thread has shown me anything, it's that both formats have their supporters, and most OEMs will play to that by offering one or more models with dual-slot support. I too would like to see dual SD slots though!

The one thing I didn't like seeing what people complaining that hp is offering CF slot-units - if you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't bemoan that the ADDITION of a feature is somehow a negative thing. That just doesn't make sense. :?

[Jason Dunn]

I agree 100%. I think a lot of people that post CF is here for life have not been around to witness the technology evolution. They think that we should still use a 5 ¼ hard drives in our desk PC because its bigger and can hold more...

Sean, I think you're being a bit condescending here. ;-) You need to ask yourself why we still have 3.5" hard drives in our computers when there are 1.8" and even 1" hard drives on the market. But you'll notice that 5.25" hard drives died off. Why? 3.5" drives are "small enough" in that they are a reasonable size for desktop computers, and other components hold the computer back from being any smaller (motherboard, optical drives, etc.). You have the space to work with, so why not use it? 3.5" drives are big enough that the platters can reach tremendous sizes (400 GB is the largest 3.5" drive on the market today) that the smaller drives cannot reach due to physical size (4 GB is the largest 1" drive on the market today). Smaller doesn't always mean better, because smaller means you're opting for less capacity.

The same logic holds true for CF and SD cards. If you're going to make a Pocket PC with a 4" screen, that big screen becomes one of the limiting factors that defines the overall size of the device. At that point, you can add both SD and CF and the device will be no bigger than what it was when you started. Conversely, if you're using a 3.5" screen, suddenly adding a CF slot becomes the limiting factor, so you ditch it and with with an SD slot. What you lose in memory capacity you make up for in a smaller device size.

It's not as simple as you think it is. ;-)

I should note that I use an iPAQ 4150, and love it because it's so small. The only time I need/want to have a CF slot is for working with the memory cards off my two digital cameras. I love the integrated WiFi and that's why I use it over the 2215. If hp gives me a model with WiFi and CF, man, I'm in heaven!

[Janak Parekh]

Oh so the new HP Pocket PC Phone will have a slightly higher resolution than my 2215, is that what you are saying?
Not slightly higher - 400% higher resolution.
Actually, based on the specs Pat posted, the 6300 device will be 240x320, not 480x640.

--janak

[Jonathan1]

46 post and not one lamenting the end of sleeves?

Am I the only one with a Navman, Lifeview FlyJacket, SilverSlider, MadeByWhitney CF sleeve, Symbol Scanner sleeve, Compaq CF sleeve and a PCMCIA sleeve lying around to no use now?

Am I the only one who actually likes the form factor of the 3XXX/5XXX series?

I'm not a Compaq employee anymore and if I'm not tied by the form factor either, I'll probably take my business elsewhere. :evil:

Dude let it die. The day the iPaq came out with the sleeve system everyone should have seen the writing on the wall. It was a stopgap solution for expansion. With CF and SDIO now being built in along with BlueTooth you can get get 90% of the options you want in a more easily carry able format. What's easier to take with you? 3 CF devices or 3 sleeves?

That and the sleeve system tied Compaq and HP's hands to a form factor that could never change. This sucks for innovation. What is HP suppose to do? Make the same form factor til the end of time? No HP promised at least two more models would support the sleeve and unless I'm not mistaken, I haven't stayed on top of the latest and greatest in HP handhelds lately, they honored that promise. Repeat after me. Proprietary expansion is a BAD thing.

People should be excited about this. What this possibly means is that HP may be planning on doing some exciting things to the iPaq line. With sleeves they couldn't do that. Or it could mean they just wanted to save a few bucks by not having that sleeve interface on the iPaq anymore. *shrugs*

[Jonathan1]

Why do they have to compete?!?!

Seriously. The only real issue with CF is the additional hit in size you take on the device to support CF. As long as a company offers either/or options (e.g. the 4155 or the 2210,) it shouldn't matter. In my case it matters because HP is only offering CF/SD not just SD with VGA. Beyond that I consider the two form factors complimentary. CF for accessories and large memory storage and SD for purly memory storage. Yes I know about SDIO but when you consider how far many of the SDIO accessories stick out of the device it makes it cumbersome and more prone to breaking. The little sliver of plastic to hold a camera head or the thick form of a CF card? *shrugs* To each their own I guess.

Actually I'm not so much pissed about that then that they STILL?!?!?! haven't bothered to make a PDA with a flip lid. Can someone talk to the people at HP and get them to pull their heads out of that dark crevasse? It can NOT be that difficult to build slots for a cover and then sell them on their website where they can increase or decrease production depending on demand. I would KILL for a metal cover like the o' 548.

[Palmguy]

46 post and not one lamenting the end of sleeves?

Am I the only one with a Navman, Lifeview FlyJacket, SilverSlider, MadeByWhitney CF sleeve, Symbol Scanner sleeve, Compaq CF sleeve and a PCMCIA sleeve lying around to no use now?

Am I the only one who actually likes the form factor of the 3XXX/5XXX series?

I'm not a Compaq employee anymore and if I'm not tied by the form factor either, I'll probably take my business elsewhere. :evil:

As far as all your peripherals, the release of new devices doesn't make every sleeve-enabled iPAQ out there stop functioning, does it? Sleeves can't go on forever.

Yes, you might be just the only one who likes that form factor ;) Actually I'm sure there are a few more of you, but seriously, a 2200 is smaller than the sleeve iPAQs, yet includes dual expansion. There has got to be an end sometime, might as well be now so we can maybe see some innovation and cool designs ;)

Oh, and you taking your business elsewhere ain't gonna let you use sleeves any more than sticking with HP. HP made clear what they were planning to do with sleeves years ago, so I don't know why you are so surprised by this revelation. HP has been pretty good throughout the years for supporting their devices, not perfect, but decent.

[disconnected]

I'll also kind of miss the sleeves (I have an SS2 and a PC slider), but I can easily live without them if I can have two card slots;I'd prefer SD and CF, but I'd be okay with two SD slots.

I also want at least 128 MB memory, but the big thing for me is screen size. My eyesight isn't great, and with the increased resolution I really, really want a 4 inch screen. I might have missed it, but I haven't seen any rumors about the screen size on the new iPAQs.

[ultraman]

Oh, I find the first photo of Hx4700 here.

http://www.ipaqabilities.com/reviews_articles/articles/0504-coming_attractions_vgaipaq.php

[Kati Compton]

Hmmm..... It has a *touchpad*? I'd have to use one to really form a valid opinion, but it seems weird to use a touchpad on a PDA with a touch screen. I know they'd be used for different purposes, but still.

[ricksfiona]

Oh, I find the first photo of Hx4700 here.

http://www.ipaqabilities.com/reviews_articles/articles/0504-coming_attractions_vgaipaq.php

Sign me up! I just hope it's not bigger or heavier than the current 5500.

[Mark Johnson]

...it seems weird to use a touchpad on a PDA with a touch screen. I know they'd be used for different purposes, but still.


This feature could be VERY cool. You could do the same kind of navigation the iPod scroll "wheel" (which is not even a real wheel, it's a touchpad too) does. Or how about being able to scroll up and down (or even sideways) on a webpage (on your new VGA screen) by either many screenpages at a time (using a "long/fast stroke") or just partway down one page (using a "short/slow stroke").

There are some real disadvantages to "discreet" button-based navigation devices (d-pad, up-down selectors) that have been overcome with things like the Jog Dial on Sony products or the touchpad/wheel on the iPods. (But as I write that sentence, I feel compelled to note that neither Sony nor Apple have a legitimate claim to exclusive use of the ideas. Neither of them invented the wheel, and such scrolling navigators were used by many different devices before they used them.)

Note also, that the touchpad doesn't take any more space than the d-pad, and if you tried to use the touchscreen as a "virtual touchpad" then you'd have to either have to take away a lot of screen space for the input area (as a virtual keyboard does) or you'd be touching (attempting to navigate) on the data area which would only highlight/select and not navigate/scroll.

The touchpad feature is likely to get as much of a love-it/hate-it reaction as it does on laptops. Ask folks who have tried an IBM Thinkpad with an "eraser-point" mouse and also a regular touchpad notebook. Most people will have a strong preference. I can't wait to give it a shot.

[Shadowcat]

My thoughts...

If the hx4700 does indeed use a touchpad, then it will be controversial for sure. It doesn't look that great for gaming but I'll reserve judgement until I can actually try it. It looks like there's a mini-USB port on the bottom left. The increase in ROM (compared with the H5500), Bluetooth v1.2, USB host capabilities, new CPU, new case material, and high capacity battery are all welcome additions. The dimensions, however, are virtually identical to the H5500. That isn't as great. It looks like a nice evolution to the H5500 series (sans expansion pack). I wish there were a camera though.

Interesting points...

iPAQ Abilities believes the hx4700 is the intended successor to the H5500. Given the size of the thing and the amount of features, it appears to be true. However, Brighthand's source(s) say the hx2700 is the successor to the H5500. Time will tell which is true. iPAQ Abilities' source says the hx4700 is the only new iPAQ with a VGA screen. That would be bad news indeed and I think a very bad decision on HP's part. Furthermore, if the hx4700 will replace the H5500, then there might not be a CF/SD device for the mid-range market and it may appear that the H2200 series will not be succeeded.

[Mark Johnson]

I just hope it's not bigger or heavier than the current 5500.


Well, if the dimensions shown are right, this is good news for you, bad news for me. It the measurements they give make it a bit smaller than a 5550 which will make you happy. I'm in the other "ditch the CF and make it as small as possible" camp. To me the iPaq 1910 is the ultimate form-factor, and it's all about small. The millimeters listed make the hx4700 almost 50% larger than the iPaq 1910 so I'm really disappointed by that. Even the 2210 is about 35% larger than the 1910, and that's only to accomodate a CF slot that I couldn't care less about.

Checking the current cost of memory on Pricegrabber.com, a Sandisk 512mb CF card is $71 and their SD card is $101. I really have no problem paying an extra 30% more for the smaller size, even though a lot of people have commented that they have an existing investment in CF.

It's too bad I'll have to wait two more months to even evaluate if the benefit of VGA outweighs the substantial size increase.

[andbald]

Oh, I find the first photo of Hx4700 here.

http://www.ipaqabilities.com/reviews_articles/articles/0504-coming_attractions_vgaipaq.php

...and I'm sure that you, smart guys, didn't miss the mini USB port on the bottom side of the unit :D . I know very well that port, owning a Mitac Mio 558 (rebranded in Italy QQAAXX WP2 - see www.qqaaxx.com -). I think both HP and ASUS are going the right way, and I hope that ASUS new upcoming 730 will have USB as well). All these new units coming out, are really similar (except for VGA capabilities, Windows Mobile SE, and processor) to the MITAC Mio 558 concept (USB, dual CF and SD, Wi FI and Bluetooth, consumer IR), which I'm very satisfied of. And another thing: is CF going to die? Well, I don't know, but I own a Canon S50 and a Canon Pro1 digital cameras, that use CF type 2 Microdrive. So I own a 1 GB IBM Microdrive and a 4 GB Hitachi ("stolen" from a Creative Muvo MP3 player for a ridicolous price). Can you find a 4 GB SD card for an affordable price? I think it doesn't even exist. And, if you have a SD digital camera, how about emptying your SD by moving the pictures from SD to a 1 GB Microdrive, using your PPC?

[Stik]

Secondly, although there are SD WiFi cards and Bluetooth is becoming standard issue there are other CF perpipherals that have not yet made their way to SDIO (at least as far as I can tell) For example, there are CF VGA cards but there is no SD equivalent yet. The same goes for bar code readers.

Hi Anthony,

Actually, Socket offers a SDIO Barcode Scanner. :wink:

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_product_info.php?code=CO-SDIOINHANDSCAN

[EddieH28]

ok here are the specs in the next IPAQ I would buy

vga screen, 4 "
128 mb ram, 64 mb rom
600 MHz processor
10 hours battery life
cf and sd slots
802.11G
bluetooth 1.2
usb 2 cable or firewire connection
activesync 4.0 integrated into outlook 2003
4 way joystick with 4 hardware buttons
optional upgrade to phone edition
built in keyboard.

if the next ipaq has all of these features, then i will but it

[SeanH]

Secondly, although there are SD WiFi cards and Bluetooth is becoming standard issue there are other CF perpipherals that have not yet made their way to SDIO (at least as far as I can tell) For example, there are CF VGA cards but there is no SD equivalent yet. The same goes for bar code readers.
You will never see a SD or Bluetooth VGA peripheral. If you need to drive a LCD projector or a 14" monitor a PDA might not be the right choice. They are targeted for hand held use.

Here is a Bluetooth based barcode scanner

http://www.mobileplanet.com/product.asp?cat_id=102&cat_name=Palm+OS+Handhelds&dept_id=2950&pf_id=MP580961&listing=1&bs_id=MP580961

Sean

[Palmguy]

ok here are the specs in the next IPAQ I would buy

vga screen, 4 "
128 mb ram, 64 mb rom
600 MHz processor
10 hours battery life
cf and sd slots
802.11G
bluetooth 1.2
usb 2 cable or firewire connection
activesync 4.0 integrated into outlook 2003
4 way joystick with 4 hardware buttons
optional upgrade to phone edition
built in keyboard.

if the next ipaq has all of these features, then i will but it

You might be waiting for awhile...

[Jonathon Watkins]

...it seems weird to use a touchpad on a PDA with a touch screen. I know they'd be used for different purposes, but still.


The touchpad feature is likely to get as much of a love-it/hate-it reaction as it does on laptops. Ask folks who have tried an IBM Thinkpad with an "eraser-point" mouse and also a regular touchpad notebook. Most people will have a strong preference. I can't wait to give it a shot.

:? I'm not so sure about touch pads. I find them very unreliable, especially if it's humid. Still - I'll reserve judgement till I try it on a real unit.....

[Jonathon Watkins]

.... I wish there were a camera though.

:twak: Repeat after me: "Cameras on PDAs are a bad idea as they mean that I can't take my PDA everywhere with me".

That wasn't so hard now was it? :wink:

[Jonathon Watkins]

I talked to my digital photocamera (not of the PDA persuasion, but a regular one), and he said it wants CF in my Pocket PC, so I can easily transfer images from its cards to my PPC for emailing. Most high end digital cameras don't come with an SD slot, but with a CF slot, so I'm in favor of a CF slot in my Pocket PC. Happily, it seems like HP is offering choices: CF and SD for me, SD for all of you "it should be as thin as possible" lovers. :)

Yup, my Canon Pro1 wants CF cards as well. Diversity is the key here.

I would like a 4 inch screen and a CF slots on my next PDA. Happily these things often go together. 8)

[ctmagnus]

Repeat after me: "Cameras on PDAs are a bad idea as they mean that I can't take my PDA everywhere with me".

Cameras on PDAs are a bad idea as they mean that I can't take my PDA everywhere with me.

Now someone else!

[beq]

Is the touchpad also by Synaptics (like most laptops, iPod, etc)? They always offer nifty stuff on their touchpad...

Also if it's more reliable that'd be good. Even on current PDAs I still get the occassional multiple-presses result when paging up/down (reading an ebook for example)...

Anyways wouldn't it be cool if the touchpad input is actually another display touchscreen? :) Think of the implications...

Yeah my mind's still fresh on the Nintendo DS announcement, and also a couple of similar laptop touchscreen-pads (and also those dual-screen chellphones)...

[Kati Compton]

I just don't like touchpads (even on laptops) for most gaming... I don't know about trying an SNES emulator with that touchpad.

[Shadowcat]

Ok guys, let's not let this turn out like the CF/SD wars. :wink: I should make myself more clear. I hope they offer models with and without cameras. I've found it hard to take pictures of friends with my Canon; it's bulky and heavy to lug around and some people are camera shy. If you take out a phone or PDA camera I'd hope it would be different. I personally think there's room for both PDA/cell phone digital cameras and regular digital cameras. I woudln't want more than 2 megapixels on my PDA but I'd demand much more for my dedicated one (for vacations and the like).

[KH]

Wow, offline for a weekend and I missed this entire thread!

I don't think there is much left to say, but I can add my 'vote'.

I love my 2215. I played with the 1945 and then sold it because the difference in size just didn't improve my life, and I really use the CF slot. I also have multiple digital cameras that have CF slots, and the XD card in my Olympus goes in a CF adapter as well. I hope HP isn't paying any attention to the folks that want them to drop CF support!

I use the dual slot design - it would be disruptive if I had to pop out the SD card to change media, because my reference books (and PalmDigitalMedia Library) and some programs live on the SD. 128MB memory would help but wouldn't hold everything I have on the SD card.

We have several generations of IPAQs in our house. The next 'driver' for upgrades is VGA, although I would consider an upgrade if there was a major increase in speed.

[SeanH]

It's true if you use the same PDA for 4 years!!!! But can you predict SD will still dominate after 4 years?

I only use currect technology.
Here is a benchmark of my 4 year old PDA (iPAQ 3650) compared to most of the PDA's shipping today.

http://mbu.com/ppc/benchmark.gif

Like I posted earlier, a 4 year old PDA does not mean that it is out dated. There is nothing more a new HP 4150 can do that a old iPAQ 3650 with a Wifi or BT card can do.

A PDA with VGA is finaly a good reason to upgrade.

Sean

[mcsouth]

Decisions, decisions........I am eagerly awaiting additional information on these new units so that I can start making my upgrade plans (I've already informed my wife that my 8 month old iPaq 1945 is not hanging around long :wink: ). At this point, I have been eagerly awaiting the iPaq 6300 specs, in order to compare to the Motorola Mpx, but these other new iPaqs are starting to confuse me - I would love the real estate that comes with a VGA screen, and it looks like that just won't happen in a 'fully connected' device - I'm sure due to battery life considerations.

As far as the CF to SD debate is concerned, I believe that CF will not go anywhere for quite a while yet, and although I went from a CF device (Jornada 567) to an SD device (iPaq 1945), the dual slot device does offer a compelling argument - my 512MB SD card is FULL, and I just can't afford a 1GB card yet - the CF cards are much more affordable in the bigger sizes right now.

I'm surprised that we aren't seeing more VGA units being announced/released, though - are the manufacturers perhaps dipping their toes into the water on this issue, to see what the demand will really be?

[NissNiss]

Anyone know if the HP phone version will work on VZ or how it would compare to the Samsung i-700.

Thanks in advance.

[nosmohtac]

Anyone know if the HP phone version will work on VZ or how it would compare to the Samsung i-700.

Thanks in advance.

I could be wron on this, but I don't think HP is making a PPCPE that is CDMA (which is what verizon uses). The 63xx is quad band GSM, which means that the only service you can get in the US is T-Mobile or Cingular.
There may be a few smaller companies that offer GSM service, but they are very limited coverage areas.