Crazy Rumour Department: A palmOne PDA Running Windows Mobile?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/archives/002657.html?wbfrom=rss' target='_blank'>http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/...html?wbfrom=rss</a><br /><br /></div>"Microsoft's Windows Mobile software running on a palmOne handheld device or smartphone? It might sound far-fetched, given the longtime Pocket PC/Palm rivalry, but Pieter Knook isn't ruling it out. Asked about the possibility yesterday during a discussion with Seattle-area reporters, the senior vice president in charge of Microsoft's Mobile and Embedded Devices Division called such a scenario "perfectly feasible."<br /><br />The development that made it feasible was last year's decision by Palm Inc. shareholders to separate it into two independent companies, one for hardware and another for the Palm operating system. The hardware company, known as palmOne, was bolstered at the same time with the acquisition of Handspring, the company behind the Treo line of smartphones."<br /><br />Another interesting thing to speculate on, isn't it? Keeping in mind that palmOne is just a PDA vendor that happens to be using the Palm OS, and also keeping in mind that in most markets the Pocket PC OS has now reached parity with the Palm OS, if you were palmOne and you had years of experience in hardware design, this is something you just might consider. I've liked most of the palmOne hardware designs - I got a chance to play with a Zire 72 yesterday and was impressed by the hardware (other than the silly writing area). I'm willing to bet that once unleashed from the constraints of the Palm OS, palmOne would be able to make some very interesting hardware. And let's not forget that with Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition, square resolutions are now possible. And who's got the most experience in designing square-screen PDAs? Speculate away my friends...

[bjornkeizers]

I'd love to see this happen. Like it or not, Palm makes some decent hardware at very affordable prices. Granted, their processors and memory are still lagging, but I'm willing to trade that for some hardware flexibility.

You've got your basic Zire 21 peasouper, through the Zire 72, up to the Clie TH55 [WiFi, BT, Camera, 320x480 - I'm buying one in less then a week] all the way to a Clie NX73... Imagine a Clie running the PPC OS! 8O Or a $75 color PPC!

[Kacey Green]

See these threads:

Windows on PalmOne
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27443&highlight=

Other OEMs
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13416&highlight=

Then post here with what you think now!

[Ed Hansberry]

PalmOne themselves haven't ruled this out.
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25276

[huangzhinong]

a $149 zire51 with WM2005? interesting. :D

[whydidnt]

Think about this - If the earlier Rumor of Dell buying Palm One comes true - Maybe someday you could buy an Axim X11 with your choice of Operating systems 8O

You could chose Palm 0S verision or Windows Mobile. The difference in hardware is very minimal today - they both run on ARM based processors. WMSE supports 360 x360 or 360 x480 screens, just like Palm.

Even if it isn't on a Palm One machine it's entirely possible someone will offer something like this before too long.

[PPCRules]

Across both PDAs and smart phones, has the same company ever marketed both a PPC and a POS device? Does any OEM make both? I figured Dell would try a POS device (I don't think they'd buy them), but nothing seems to be coming.

PalmOne making a PPC would be interesting, but I'd rather see the Sony of a year or two ago make a PocketPC. But I sense they're backing away from PDAs as the company continues to struggle.

[Felix Torres]

Across both PDAs and smart phones, has the same company ever marketed both a PPC and a POS device? Does any OEM make both? I figured Dell would try a POS device (I don't think they'd buy them), but nothing seems to be coming.

PalmOne making a PPC would be interesting, but I'd rather see the Sony of a year or two ago make a PocketPC. But I sense they're backing away from PDAs as the company continues to struggle.

SAMSUNG.

[Felix Torres]

PALMOne would have to be MAJORLY ticked-off at PALMSOURCE for this to be anything more than a marketing tweak by the MS exec in question.

At present, the Palm PDA market is PALMONE and Sony.
The PocketPC market?
Dozens of hungry low-cost asian manufacturers.

I get this image of a frying pan over a flame...

So, unless PALM OS6 is a monster of a disaster (in features or schedule), another no-go.

Funny, it didn't seem like a slow news day... :-)

[Mobile_Bear]

I would love to get a Clie with Windows Mobile! :D

[ctitanic]

Once again we will see a PACE (a hibrid of Palm + Windows CE)

[Mitch D]

As much as I hate to admit it I was impressed with the Zire 72 we got into work just before I went on holidays this week. Very bright screen, 1.3 mega pixel camera. I would love to see a device like that running the WM2003/SE OS, remember that the Palm OS and the PalmOne branded devices are two different entities now so who's to say that this is so far fetched.

Lord know's that I harrase my Sony Clie rep often enough about Sony developing a Clie that uses WM, heck I would be first in line for a UX50 style device that ran WM2003.

Dare to dream I guess...

[bjornkeizers]

So, unless PALM OS6 is a monster of a disaster (in features or schedule), another no-go.


'Unless'? You sound as if you actually think it might even be good! Noooooh, After that whole &lt;censored> situation they call OS5 release, I'm not touching OS6 with a forty foot pole, and so won't many of my Palm brethren. Hell, version 5 can't even multitask yet, and I heard rumours 6 won't either - and if it will, who says it works with the software out there?

The problem, as I see it, is Palm needs to rebuild their entire OS from scratch. This would solve many problems and possibly create a great OS - but it would also break each and every piece of software out there today... which is a big selling point for Palm over PPC. It's not in their best interests to create an entirely new OS!

If all this sounds cynical - I would like to point out that I have been a happy Palm user since the first Palm Pilot [back when a Palm Pilot actually *was* a Palm Pilot] I've owned close to a dozen Palm devices, so I feel I have a right to complain.

[cscullion]

I, personally, would settle for a simple port of the .NET Compact Framework to PalmOS (5 or 6, doesn't matter). One "feature" of the compact framework is to allow build-once-run-anywhere capability (where have I heard that before?). With a PalmOS CF, developers could sell their programs to both markets. I know, that's what AppForge does... but I think this would be better.

I can see a licensee like palmOne, Sony or especially Samsung making this happen, where PalmSource might balk. Just look at how Mac connectivity is being handled... PalmSource says it's dropping Mac HotSync support, so palmOne announces that future devices will include a third-party Mac solution. I think that sets a good precedent.

[huangzhinong]

Across both PDAs and smart phones, has the same company ever marketed both a PPC and a POS device? Does any OEM make both? I figured Dell would try a POS device (I don't think they'd buy them), but nothing seems to be coming.



legend, acer, samsung.
ASUS made Tungsten T3 for PalmOne too.

[Felix Torres]

I would love to get a Clie with Windows Mobile! :D

If its of the flip-n-twist variety with a CF slot, I'm in.
Of course, adding full VGA and Sd and subtracting Memory Stick, would be a help, but I'm willing to compromise... :wink:

[Felix Torres]

So, unless PALM OS6 is a monster of a disaster (in features or schedule), another no-go.


'Unless'? You sound as if you actually think it might even be good!

Not necessarily--although I usually wait until folks actually screw up before complaining.

It's just that the last I heard, PalmOne was currently being run by the very folks that made the architectural design decisions that are now holding the Palm software platform back, in the name of software compatibility. So, disavowing PalmOS, at this late stage, is to trash their own creation, while it is down but not yet dead.

In the computer industry, which is loaded with monster egos, that would be almost inconceivable. :-)
(PalmOne adopting anything other than PalmOS, even for just one product, would likely be the end of whatever credibility PalmSource still has...)

In addition, do consider that you're talking of ex-Apple engineers, to start with, and you'll see that adopting an MS OS would be a bitter pill indeed.
In keeping with established industry practice, I would sooner expect to see PalmOne move to Symbian--they are allegedly looking to focus on communications devices, no?--or LINUX, instead of a Windows-branded product.
ABM! 8)

[arnage2]

clie with wm, oh yes! but itll never happen.

Id like a wm treo 610

[ipaq_wannabe]

their processors and memory are still lagging, but I'm willing to trade that for some hardware flexibility.


in my opinion, their processors and memory ARE not lagging...

in fact, it is more than enough for the OS... unlike PocketPC/Windows Mobile which is so much more memory/processor-intensive...

just to note: the first palmos only required around less than 100KB (i think...) and a 8MHz CPU, while version 1 of pocketpc (windows ce) required at least a 1MB of RAM and a 20MHz CPU...

[Kacey Green]

their processors and memory are still lagging, but I'm willing to trade that for some hardware flexibility.


in my opinion, their processors and memory ARE not lagging...

in fact, it is more than enough for the OS... unlike PocketPC/Windows Mobile which is so much more memory/processor-intensive...

just to note: the first palmos only required around less than 100KB (i think...) and a 8MHz CPU, while version 1 of pocketpc (windows ce) required at least a 1MB of RAM and a 20MHz CPU...

They have the same processors albeit at slower speeds or even the same speeds in some cases.

I can't vouch for memory

[rbrome]

I honestly think the PalmOne executives quoted on this are simply trying to emphasize that Palm/Palm are now seperate companies. I don't think they are necessarily seriously considering making a Windows Mobile device.

[bjornkeizers]

in my opinion, their processors and memory ARE not lagging...

in fact, it is more than enough for the OS... unlike PocketPC/Windows Mobile which is so much more memory/processor-intensive...

just to note: the first palmos only required around less than 100KB (i think...) and a 8MHz CPU, while version 1 of pocketpc (windows ce) required at least a 1MB of RAM and a 20MHz CPU...

Palm is slowly catching up on hardware specs yes, but not as fast as the PPC seems to be evolving. Last year, the biggest amount of built in memory in a Palm unit was 32 mb, when everyone in the PPC camp already had 64. And the processors... only now are we finally getting a decent speed. But still, that's only the ultra high end models.

Just look at the Clie TH55 - it has 32 mb of memory and a variable speed processor ranging from 8mhz to 160mhz [IIRC] And that unit costs 400 euro! Now compare that to a 299 euro Ipaq 1940: twice the memory, 266mhz processor, SD slot....

The only thing that Palm units have going for them is that the software is less demanding, as you already pointed out, and that the hardware is a lot more flexible. [TH55 doesn't even have a D-pad and the scroll wheel is on the back - how's that for flexible?]

[ipaq_wannabe]

in my opinion, their processors and memory ARE not lagging...

in fact, it is more than enough for the OS... unlike PocketPC/Windows Mobile which is so much more memory/processor-intensive...

just to note: the first palmos only required around less than 100KB (i think...) and a 8MHz CPU, while version 1 of pocketpc (windows ce) required at least a 1MB of RAM and a 20MHz CPU...

Palm is slowly catching up on hardware specs yes, but not as fast as the PPC seems to be evolving. Last year, the biggest amount of built in memory in a Palm unit was 32 mb, when everyone in the PPC camp already had 64. And the processors... only now are we finally getting a decent speed. But still, that's only the ultra high end models.

Just look at the Clie TH55 - it has 32 mb of memory and a variable speed processor ranging from 8mhz to 160mhz And that unit costs 400 euro! Now compare that to a 299 euro Ipaq 1940: twice the memory, 266mhz processor, SD slot....

The only thing that Palm units have going for them is that the software is less demanding, as you already pointed out, and that the hardware is a lot more flexible. [TH55 doesn't even have a D-pad and the scroll wheel is on the back - how's that for flexible?]

what i am trying to say is that it is not good to compare the PALM as a palm and the POCKETPC as a pocketpc because in the first place the hardware is determined by OS itself...

yes, Clies nowadays only have 32MB of RAM, but if you'd really take a look at it - you'd see that this amount of RAM is [i]equivalent to 64MB/128MB of PocketPC RAM...

one couldnt say that the hardware is catching up, etc. because it was never meant to catch up... the hardware more than qualifies to put it on par with a PocketPC or any other mobile system...

[ipaq_wannabe]

in my opinion, their processors and memory ARE not lagging...

in fact, it is more than enough for the OS... unlike PocketPC/Windows Mobile which is so much more memory/processor-intensive...

just to note: the first palmos only required around less than 100KB (i think...) and a 8MHz CPU, while version 1 of pocketpc (windows ce) required at least a 1MB of RAM and a 20MHz CPU...

Palm is slowly catching up on hardware specs yes, but not as fast as the PPC seems to be evolving. Last year, the biggest amount of built in memory in a Palm unit was 32 mb, when everyone in the PPC camp already had 64. And the processors... only now are we finally getting a decent speed. But still, that's only the ultra high end models.

Just look at the Clie TH55 - it has 32 mb of memory and a variable speed processor ranging from 8mhz to 160mhz And that unit costs 400 euro! Now compare that to a 299 euro Ipaq 1940: twice the memory, 266mhz processor, SD slot....

The only thing that Palm units have going for them is that the software is less demanding, as you already pointed out, and that the hardware is a lot more flexible. [TH55 doesn't even have a D-pad and the scroll wheel is on the back - how's that for flexible?]

what i am trying to say is that it is not good to compare the PALM as a palm and the POCKETPC as a pocketpc because in the first place the hardware is determined by OS itself...

yes, Clies nowadays only have 32MB of RAM, but if you'd really take a look at it - you'd see that this amount of RAM is [i]equivalent to 64MB/128MB of PocketPC RAM...

one couldnt say that the hardware is catching up, etc. because it was never meant to catch up... the hardware more than qualifies to put it on par with a PocketPC or any other mobile system...

as for the PRICE - do note that retail PRICES are not determined by how much a device is actually produced but MORE on the perceived benefits, the perceived value of the device...

Sony sees the CLIE TH55 more USEFUL (dont ask me how they "see" it) than an iPAQ 1940, and thus prices it at that... Sony can do that because they know that even if they price it at that range, most people would still buy a Sony than an iPAQ... hhhmmm... alas, this is more a question of marketing instead of technology...

[UtK]

yes, Clies nowadays only have 32MB of RAM, but if you'd really take a look at it - you'd see that this amount of RAM is equivalent to 64MB/128MB of PocketPC RAM...

I guess, how can a book, or a game become twice or four times as less when uploading it to Palm, not Pocket PC device 8O Really, most of software is only 10-15% less on Palm.

Also... Don't forget that you have to install (and buy) DocsToGo, WebPro, good email program, launcher, card explorer and so on on you palm device - of course, some of them already include web browser and office program nowadays. I just remember my Zire 71, which has no software included, but PIM and awful image viewing software. Because of that, it's 16 MB of RAM are equivalent to 4 MB of RAM of typical PocketPC :twisted:

[Kacey Green]

I understood the rest of your post but, could you please clarify this?
I guess, how can a book, or a game become twice or four times as less when uploading it to Palm, not Pocket PC device 8O Really, most of software is only 10-15% less on Palm.

[AhuhX]

Sony sees the CLIE TH55 more USEFUL (dont ask me how they "see" it) than an iPAQ 1940, and thus prices it at that... Sony can do that because they know that even if they price it at that range, most people would still buy a Sony than an iPAQ... hhhmmm... alas, this is more a question of marketing instead of technology...

LOL. Given vastly more people choose an Ipaq over a Sony (given the last round of *world* sales figures) that must explain why Sony is going rapidly going down the toilet.

Perhaps they are deluded enough to think that consumers will still buy their proprietory junk at any price, but the reality is somewhat different-
despite the marketting. :wink:

[c38b2]

I understood the rest of your post but, could you please clarify this?
I guess, how can a book, or a game become twice or four times as less when uploading it to Palm, not Pocket PC device 8O Really, most of software is only 10-15% less on Palm.

The post is essentially saying that a data file cannot be less in size on a Palm than on a PPC. This is correct - for the most part, the files are the same size. However, applications like games can be much smaller on a Palm than on a PPC. I don't know why, it just is. :wink:

[Kacey Green]

but isn't a major point of both devices, data manipulation, display, and the occaisional game. music can't be a different size on each device?

[Janak Parekh]

but isn't a major point of both devices, data manipulation, display, and the occaisional game. music can't be a different size on each device?
You don't get UtK's point. If you want the same functionality, applications tend to be a little bit larger on Pocket PCs based on the WinCE libraries and execution format. Data, however, has to be the identical size if you want the identical content. For example, a 128kbps MP3 is going to take the exact same size no matter what handheld you use. That's why a lot of us don't buy the "32MB on Palm is 64MB on Pocket PC" argument -- although it depends on your mix of applications and data.

(Well, modulo a few hundred bytes here or there for file system overhead, but that's so little as to be considered moot.)

--janak