Boeing To Put Wireless Internet Access In Airplanes

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://newstribune.com/articles/2004/04/18/ap/Business/d821ddjg1.txt">http://newstribune.com/articles/2004/04/18/ap/Business/d821ddjg1.txt</a><br /><br />"Delayed after post-Sept. 11 airline turmoil and bumped by its original U.S. patrons, Boeing Co.'s Internet service for commercial airplanes is finally getting airborne. The launch of Connexion by Boeing on Lufthansa this spring comes nearly two years later than originally intended, after hard times in the airline industry forced the company to jettison its original business plan."<br /><br />This would be great except for one thing. "Boeing's service will cost from $9.95 for 30 minutes to $29.95 for full access on flights longer than six hours." :rotfl: Come on guys! Get serious.

[Fishie]

Believe me thats CHEAP and id pay it.

[jb]

Please, can you charge anymore???

$30.00 per flight. Ssssssuuuurreeee, no problem. Is there an additional 15% tip on that too!!!!!

[ignar]

I wouldn't pay that much unless I fly more than 10 hours. Wait, my laptop battery can't last that long anyway. :?

Obviously using WiFi in the flight doesn't seem to affect safety. So why have I been forced to turn off wifi signal in the flight?

[dartman]

Can you use it for internet phone calls as well?

dart

[jb]

I wouldn't pay that much unless I fly more than 10 hours. Wait, my laptop battery can't last that long anyway. :?

Obviously using WiFi in the flight doesn't seem to affect safety. So why have I been forced to turn off wifi signal in the flight?

That's because they use a "special" WiFi signal that doesn't affect their systems. That's why you have to pay the high price cause it's a "special" signal. :lol:

[chunkymonkey75]

Actually, I think they will have no trouble getting people (or their company) to pay that. It sounds reasonable to me.

[arnage2]

i would pay $30 each for my yearly 4 and 5 hour flights to get to hawaii.

[Willmonwah]

I'd pay if it was a long trip... I hope the pricing comes down in the future, however.

[dacs29]

I'd gladly pay $30 for full access. That's actually not too bad for a six hour or longer flight. Right now I fly back and forth between the US and Germany a couple times a year and would love to be able to chat with friends and just surf the Internet to kill some time on those long flights. Then again, I don't think my battery would last that long. :|

David

[David Prahl]

There is no way I'd pay more than $10 or $15 USD for wifi. Paying for headphones is already a sham -- just bring your own and an adaptor. Maybe if I fire up Netstumber and have a looksee at how strong their WEP is... :twisted:

Anyone know how they're serving up web at 35,000 feet (from a technical aspect)? How about download/upload speeds?

[Janak Parekh]

Maybe if I fire up Netstumber and have a looksee at how strong their WEP is... :twisted:
If it's anything like other commercial services, it might very well not be WEP, actually. ;)

Anyway, you're seeing strongly differing opinions here, which isn't surprising. On a long flight, $30 is a very small part of the cost of a ticket, so the cost is probably more justifiable. And, as others said, this is probably going to be targeted towards business users first, who are willing to pay the insane price for first/business-class seats anyway...

--janak

[dean_shan]

The price seems a little high but on a long flight it might be worth it.

[mhuie]

You people dont understand how much R&D has to go into installing new devices in airplanes as well as maintaining the same safety level, especially ones that may interefere with the airplane electronics.

Its not worth sacrificing safety for cheap wifi, and you have to realize that you are getting net access tens of thousands of feet off the ground.

[Wiggster]

and you have to realize that you are getting net access tens of thousands of feet off the ground.

Yea, 5 miles above the earth's surface and 600 MPH... not many other service providers cover that. I'm intrigued as to how the plane gets its service. Is it satellite based? Hmm.

[bbarker]

The price is too high.

One thing they should offer, though, is a program for frequent users -- a monthly plan. If I were still traveling a lot I'd pay up to $50 a month. For single flights I'd pay up to $15.

[jimski]

They are basically charging what the market will bear, but definitely what this service is worth. So why exactly would I want to be sitting in a middle seat in the back of a plane on a long flight, with the seat in front of me reclined, browsing the internet, with what will most likely be a less than perfect signal.

Being a business traveler, my firm has often payed $2,400 for me to fly from NYC to CA on less than one week's notice. Should I really have to pay an additional $30.00 for wireless access if I wanted to use it.

Sure, some people will pay this extravagant fee, but it will do nothing to promote wireless. Only low cost wireless access will make it indispensible.

[aerin44]

If I was in firsrt/business class I would be upset that I had to pay extra. I fly back and forth to asia from the US several times a year and would not have a problem paying $30 for a twelve hour flight. I would also deliberately choose an airline that offered it.

I don't remember exactly, but I think t-mobiles starbucks hotspots cost about $10 for a single day. I find that price ridiculous. But considering the added technical difficulties faced in doing this at 30,000 feet and 600 mph justify the high price.

[theone3]

I'd gladly pay $30 for full access. That's actually not too bad for a six hour or longer flight. Right now I fly back and forth between the US and Germany a couple times a year and would love to be able to chat with friends and just surf the Internet to kill some time on those long flights. Then again, I don't think my battery would last that long. :|

DavidIn QANTAS airlines, you can bring in your adapter and plug it into the chair! Only problem is, it's business/first class only. :cry:

[wangsanegara]

$30 would be acceptable for a long haul flight.
I just wish that the new Singapore Airlines service from LA to Singapore already has this system installed. Man, 18 hours non-stop flight is really boring. After 12 hours of flight, $30 would be just fine.

A.W

[atsouch]

Exactly one year ago, on the 23rd of March 2003, I was on the flight from Frankfurt to Washington DC. One of the famous test flights for the Connexion system. They were saying that it would be free (for testing reasons) till mid-April 2003 and then it would probably cost around €30 per flight. They were right about the price but it took them another year to commercialise it!

They told us that we would have a Wifi connection (even on Economy class) but they had a technical problem and they only had a UTP connection in SOME Business and First class seats. After a lot of fight for these seats, I finally got one.

Actually there was a wifi access point, its SSID was flynet, the signal quality was 92-100% and the signal strength 67-77%.

Broadband speed test gave me 133 kbits and the total response was very very good! (I come from Greece and we have very few DSL connections so this kind of speed is fine for me.) I even worked with FTP and telnet without any problems.

During the return flight the system was unavailable. I think that they had huge problems to keep them a whole year from actual use.

[sundown]

I'm in the "way to high a price" camp. Remember a few years ago when planes had those "air phones" in them that cost about $10 a minute plus connection fees or something? How many times did you ever see anyone use those? Yes, maybe a long flight and yes maybe on one of the expensive flights (my company has sent me on expensive short notice flights too) but these days my company has me flying everyone cheap. Maybe if I was a stock broker or similar where up to the second info is critical.

So maybe I'm wrong and the business traveler will make this a success story. Otherwise in some future post we'll be saying "remember those expensive wireless connections on planes a few years ago?".

[fairyliquidizer]

the infrastructure to set this up isn't cheap, so for a long haul this seams fair. Short haul may be a bit pricey.

personaly i am going to Australia later this year, and that's a 25 hour flight. So I'll be at the front of the queue with my spare batteries.

as for expence, I've already bought an iPod for the flight.

Fairy

[Stephen Beesley]

Being an Aussie living in Europe I have become very familiar for the day long trip to get back home for a visit and believe me on that 14 hour leg from Heathrow to Singapore $30 for wifi access to the net would be worth it (Although part of me is also agreeing with the line that I pay enough for hte ticket as it is without this....).

Of course it would mean filling my carry on luggage with spare batteries for the battery extender I just bought for my Jornada, but really I would pay alot for anything that will help wile away those long hours stuck in a cramped "cattle class" airline seat. And nothing is as good at wasting the hours as the internet! Just think of how many wireless posts to the Thoughts forums I could make in a flight!

[spacerace]

i'd agree with the majority (poll ?!) that for long haul I'd happily pay $30 for Wifi access. I fly Heathrow to San Francisco (10/11 hours) with family once or twice a year and besides my own email use, my daughter could easily kill time on whatever kids site is the current fave...

as many have said i'd have to stock up on batteries, but BA/Virgin isn't offering yet so no rush....

[hotweiss]

This is well worth the price, especially on trans-atlantic flights. I'd gladly pay:)

[hotweiss]

Broadband speed test gave me 133 kbits and the total response was very very good! (I come from Greece and we have very few DSL connections so this kind of speed is fine for me.) I even worked with FTP and telnet without any problems.


Good enough for Skype...

[Busdriver]

I'd bet that some people using this would either charge it to the company or figure out a way to write it off.

[don dre]

$10 for 30 min is way too expensive. $30 for an hour plus hour flight is definitely worth it. It's a service I'd use for less money on shorter flights, but I definitely think it's worth it when you have a lot of time to kill. Esp. if you have trouble sleeping on long flights. I don't fly a whole lot but I gather that there are no plugs in these seats. I ride amtrak a lot (talking about something being overpriced! at least if you are on the Northeast Corridor) and I love the fact that they have plugs next to all the seats.

[joelevi]

Can you use it for internet phone calls as well?

If they're using satellite for the access (which I believe they are) then you're out of luck for traditional VoIP, latency is too high with satellite communications to get a reliable VoIP call (similar to using VoIP via a DirecWAY or StarBand land-based satellite setup at home).

Regarding the Skype comment, Skype uses much better compression (although it's proprietary) than most VoIP services, but I don't think that would overcome the problems inherant to the latencies involved.

[Zack Mahdavi]

Am I the only one that feels this will go the way of the airphones if the prices remain this high?

Airphones were great, except the reception was bad, and the price never dropped.

The price for this service has to drop quickly, or airlines will not pay to install this service in my opinion.

[Zack Mahdavi]

$30 would be acceptable for a long haul flight.
I just wish that the new Singapore Airlines service from LA to Singapore already has this system installed. Man, 18 hours non-stop flight is really boring. After 12 hours of flight, $30 would be just fine.

A.W

Dang, and I thought my 12 hour Singapore Airlines flights from LA to Taipei were long! Actually, I'll probably be taking that 18 hour flight pretty soon, and in that case, I wouldn't mind paying $30 at all.

[possmann]

Nice idea - finally - but that price has just got to get lower - geesh :roll:

[manywhere]

Hmmm... the price is quite high, but if there's enough bandwidth for some internet radio (e.g. from my home country) then I cannot see a reason to listen to that instead of the airline's radio repeat channel... :?

Too bad the Finnish Broadcasting company had to stop broadcasting internet radio. The reason being that the Finnish eqv. to RIAA had pushed to prices to ridiculously high royalty fees!! :evil:

Oh well, maybe I could watch some news broadcasts instead... :roll:

[daS]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the strange math yet: $10/0.5hours, $30/6hours+? Does that mean that if I'm on a 5.5 hour flight I need to pay $110, but if the flight is another half hour the price drops to $30? :?

Aside from that, I'm in the camp that says this is a "reasonable" starting price. I don't think it's worth it to spend $20 to surf the web for an hour in flight. But if you are traveling on business and need to send/receive email or have other communications in the air, it may very well be worth the cost.

There's no question that early adopters must pay the price for the development of such technology. At some point, the price will either drop, or the technology will be abandoned (as happened with the Skyphones.)

[obarnes]

I'd pay $30 if my laptop battery would last for the 10hr flight!

$9.95 must be for PPC users as that would be the end of my battery after 30 mins :-)

They should supply wireleless + power for $30 in all classes then they'd be closer to the mark.

[Thinkingmandavid]

It seem high to me. If I fly from MD to AZ, $30 is way too much! In fact that is crazy. I will just watch a dvd instead of concern for net access.
If I fly from MD to Canada and it is a 6 hour trip, then I could possibly, POSSIBLY, see myself spending $30 bucks!

jimski wrote
Being a business traveler, my firm has often payed $2,400 for me to fly from NYC to CA on less than one week's notice. Should I really have to pay an additional $30.00 for wireless access if I wanted to use it.

I agree with you jimski, at that price it should automatically be included. It is not like the trips are going to end from your company. It is ridiculous. How about an airline that wants to stand out from the rest?


aerin44 wrote

If I was in firsrt/business class I would be upset that I had to pay extra. I fly back and forth to asia from the US several times a year and would not have a problem paying $30 for a twelve hour flight. I would also deliberately choose an airline that offered it.

I don't remember exactly, but I think t-mobiles starbucks hotspots cost about $10 for a single day. I find that price ridiculous. But considering the added technical difficulties faced in doing this at 30,000 feet and 600 mph justify the high price.
I agree with you on the part of first/business class. Some things should automatically be included. Dear goodness, at this rate by the time you get off of the flight you will not be able to afford a candy bar! :evil:

The T-Mobile hot spots I disagree with you on. It is not ten bucks per day if you pay a monthly fee. Maybe for the day, of course it does not make sense to do that to me, but there are those whose needs are obviously met with that plan.

sundown wrote
Otherwise in some future post we'll be saying "remember those expensive wireless connections on planes a few years ago?".

I like this kind of thinking :wink:
It seems that with technology that is the way things end up in the long run, so why would this be an exception?

fairyliquidizer wrote
the infrastructure to set this up isn't cheap, so for a long haul this seams fair. Short haul may be a bit pricey.

You are not the first to suggest this in the posting and I do agree. What makes it agreeable and I think most people here on the forum are arguing is short to expensive, and long flights not bad. I fit into that category myself.


busdriver wrote

I'd bet that some people using this would either charge it to the company or figure out a way to write it off.


True, seems to me if you can write the flight you can include web access :wink:


For those of us considering it and those who are going to use it, buy an extra battery :wink:

[daS]

I agree with you jimski, at that price it should automatically be included. It is not like the trips are going to end from your company. It is ridiculous. How about an airline that wants to stand out from the rest?
Who says that an airline won't include free access in First/Business Classes or for the "elite" members of their frequent flier program? Remember this is an announcement from Boeing, not from any specific airline.

While I agree with you that in general, airlines today are forgetting who their customers are and instead are focusing on the nickel and dime issues, it's a bit premature to assume what the final cost will be to the consumers.

Still, I think that $10 for connectivity when I need it on a flight is a better value than that awful airline food that some carriers have the nerve to charge the same extra amount for. (Besides, I can always bring my own sandwich onboard, but connectivity is a different story at 7 miles in the air.)

[burtman007]

I'm jumping in late, but here's my 2 cents on it:

$30 is way worth the price. I have to head to Europe once or twice a year and for $30, being connected for a 9 to 10 hour flight is SOOOO worth it. Not to mention, my company would reimburse for that charge. AND I'm a lowly IT grunt.

Now our director of IT, who travels between Europe and the States 15 to 16 times a year, the cost for him to stay connected and up-to-date would be invaluable. $30 additional on a flight that's costing probably $1500 to start, doesn't even dent the budget.

As for the battery issue, I flew to Europe 2 weeks ago on a 777. There were DC power outlets all throughout the plane. Economy included. Just about every seat had them. The cost of an adapter is worth it too. Way cheaper than another battery that's gonna get me what? 2 hours? 3 maybe???

[atsouch]

Who says that an airline won't include free access in First/Business Classes or for the "elite" members of their frequent flier program? Remember this is an announcement from Boeing, not from any specific airline.


The pricing scheme is from the Lufthansa's announcement. They will be the first to use this system with British Airways probably following soon.

Lufthansa will have all long-haul flights equipped with Wifi till the end of 2006.

[mhuie]

And if airlines didn't offer wifi on domestic flights , everyone would be complaining too.... :roll: :roll: :roll:

(which is probably why its so expensive on &lt;5 hour flights, thers so many domestic airplanes that have to be retrofitted, think of the hardware costs to setup the AP, set up the satellite connection on every single lowly MD80 or what not)

I wouldn't even bother to bust my notebook out on a &lt;3 hour flight, yet the airlines still offer the service.

I give them props for even having the service around!

[bkerrins]

Not me. NO way will I pay $30. I realize there are other issues with setting this up in a plane...but seriously, if it only costs me $30 ONCE to install a wireless router in my house, it shouldn't cost $30 a day to use one on a plane. I can bring a stack of DVD's and books to use up time on a plane.

[daS]

Not me. NO way will I pay $30. I realize there are other issues with setting this up in a plane...but seriously, if it only costs me $30 ONCE to install a wireless router in my house, it shouldn't cost $30 a day to use one on a plane.
And your broadband access is free at home?

Okay, it's probably about $30-60 per month, not per day, but what if that was wireless broadband? Then what would the cost be for network access? Also, the cost of the network you are connecting to at home is amortized over many more users than the airlines can hope for.

Certainly the price of this service is not for everyone. If someone thinks the price is too high, then they simply can choose not to use it.

[bbarker]

Am I the only one that feels this will go the way of the airphones if the prices remain this high?

Airphones were great, except the reception was bad, and the price never dropped.

The price for this service has to drop quickly, or airlines will not pay to install this service in my opinion.
I agree completely.

[Jeff Rutledge]

I think the corporate traveller is the obvious target here. I could see quite a few people paying $30 to stay connected for the duration of a flight. As long as it is fast enough and is a solid connection, many will pay the price. Whether it's true or not, the perception will be that the ability to stay connected increases productivity a fair bit. As long as that perception stays, $30 will be pocket change.

[karen]

Sure, I'd pay it, for a long haul like Asia.

I've paid $30 a day for broadband in a London Hotel so that I could chat with my hubby whenever I wanted via VOIP and chat. But that was because I didn't feel like dragging myself to a internet house after my courses.

I guess on a $1800 ticket another $30 doesn't even make anyone bat an eye...

[wangsanegara]

$30 would be acceptable for a long haul flight.
I just wish that the new Singapore Airlines service from LA to Singapore already has this system installed. Man, 18 hours non-stop flight is really boring. After 12 hours of flight, $30 would be just fine.

A.W

Dang, and I thought my 12 hour Singapore Airlines flights from LA to Taipei were long! Actually, I'll probably be taking that 18 hour flight pretty soon, and in that case, I wouldn't mind paying $30 at all.

By the way, in the new executive economy class, there is a built in power source in every seat. That's a 110Volt source, no need for an additional adapter.

A.W

[kwoodham]

Hey - for business travelers, this would be a bargain - now if all you are planning on doing is surfing, maybe your ROTFL admonition to "get serious" is on target. As a business traveler, I suspect that my company would see the charge as entirely appropriate if it means that I can be that much more productive on the plane.


http://newstribune.com/articles/2004/04/18/ap/Business/d821ddjg1.txt

This would be great except for one thing. "Boeing's service will cost from $9.95 for 30 minutes to $29.95 for full access on flights longer than six hours." :rotfl: Come on guys! Get serious.

[Stephen Beesley]

As a business traveler, I suspect that my company would see the charge as entirely appropriate if it means that I can be that much more productive on the plane.


Damn - hadn't thought of that....

In my last job in Oz I spent quite a bit of time flying from one side of the country to the other (Perth to Brisbane -about a five hour direct flight or 7 hours with a stop over) and would have loved internet access, but now I am not so sure. All those emails from my boss etc etc etc....

[tachishoben]

I think it is a great idea, and would need to accomodate those that need to charge thier batteries with a local power outlet at the seat. i have seen some airlines that offer power on first class, but not all of us can do that.

[dlinker]

As any Aussie knows - any time we travel to another country (except NZ) it's a minimum 8 hour flight - that just gets you to Asia. For North America or Europe, double or triple that time.

$30 to get Internet access for that trip is peanuts. My company would gladly pay. I'd even pay if it was a personal trip - it's not even going to add 1% to the cost of the ticket.

The only thing would be to make sure that you fly with an airline that not only provides the WiFi Internet access, but also provides power to your seat. Maybe they could include the power adaptor in the cost of the service - instead of you having to buy it. Even if not - the appropriate adaptor is cheaper than a stack of batteries - and more convinient that shutting down every couple of hours to swap batteries.

Plus - the right adaptor will power your PocketPC as well as your laptop - or use a USB charge/sync cable from the latop to the PPC.

[tachishoben]

I have only currently see the WiFi available on the new boeing jets and where they are going? Initially it was from the US to Frankfurt Germany, other than that I don't know.

[Zack Mahdavi]

I have only currently see the WiFi available on the new boeing jets and where they are going? Initially it was from the US to Frankfurt Germany, other than that I don't know.

Korean Air and JAL have signed up as well.