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View Full Version : The best music format for Pocket Pc


americaneagle
04-16-2004, 04:32 AM
I am looking to figure out what the best music file format is for my situation.

I want to find a format that has excellent compression. I have a 64 and 128MB SD Card. I was unsatisfied WMA as it makes huge files. I like Real Audio but the player dosen't let me map the keys making it rather useless. I have considered OGG I found a good player but I can't find any burning program to burn from my CD Drive. I also don't know if the compression is good with OGG

To sum it all up Helllllllllllllllllllp :lol:

upplepop
04-16-2004, 05:03 AM
I re-encoded most of my CDs to ogg to get smaller file sizes. I am impressed with the sound I get at files encoded at 128; they're much better than mp3s at that level. File sizes are about 1/2 to 3/4 the size of an mp3.

You need a ripping/extracting program to extract the files (burning refers to writing to a CD-R or CD-RW disc. An excellent and free program is CDex. (http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/) It has several other good features as well. Another good program (not free) is Easy CD-DA Extractor (http://www.poikosoft.com/) which is very easy to use.

americaneagle
04-16-2004, 05:10 AM
Thanks, I will give it a try. Thanks for correction in speech as well :D


A small note, I am most definitely registered to vote. :)

arnage2
04-16-2004, 05:23 AM
ogg/vorbis

americaneagle
04-16-2004, 05:28 AM
I re-encoded most of my CDs to ogg to get smaller file sizes. I am impressed with the sound I get at files encoded at 128; they're much better than mp3s at that level. File sizes are about 1/2 to 3/4 the size of an mp3.

You need a ripping/extracting program to extract the files (burning refers to writing to a CD-R or CD-RW disc. An excellent and free program is CDex. (http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/) It has several other good features as well. Another good program (not free) is Easy CD-DA Extractor (http://www.poikosoft.com/) which is very easy to use.


Question for "upplepop"

Umm, could you give me some advice for settings? What do you prefer?? Also, do you know of a good freeware player for Windows?

americaneagle
04-16-2004, 07:16 AM
Thanks for the help but I think I have found the best OGG Cd Ripper out there. You have to try it!!!

It's called TDKCOggRipper

Weird name, great Software.


http://www.thekompany.com/projects/tkcoggripper

Try it guys, it's Freeware.

From a reformed MP3 and RA (Real Audio) user.

hoffm11
04-16-2004, 01:22 PM
I have been using this software for the last month and LOVE IT!!! It is called Media Monkey and they have a free version, which I am using, and a Pro version. http://www.mediamonkey.com/

Give it a try.. It rips OGG, MP3, etc. It manages your collections quite well.

americaneagle
04-17-2004, 02:38 AM
What do you mean in your signature byt FM Transmitter? What are you transmitting? Data?

hoffm11
04-17-2004, 02:41 AM
It is a SoundFeeder FM transmitter. It allows me to transmit the signal from my pocket pc into a radio. See the picture below. I can play music frm my pocket pc into my car radio.

http://arkon.com/images/SF121iPODlarge.gif

americaneagle
04-17-2004, 05:11 AM
Interesting!

Kowalski
04-17-2004, 12:17 PM
it seems that i am not the only person who find the fm transmitter interesting!

Steven Cedrone
04-17-2004, 01:24 PM
it seems that i am not the only person who find the fm transmitter interesting!

It's an iROCK type device. They should be available in every computer/gadget store on the planet! :wink:

Steve

shawnc
04-17-2004, 01:29 PM
2 pretty basic questions:

1. Can you convert WMA to OGG? I ask since I have already converted most of my MP3's to WMA. I like the idea of smaller file size since I am close to filling up my new 1G SD card that I overpaid for about 1 month ago :evil: . If I can go from WMA to OGG, then it might be worth it for me.

2. Does PPC play OGG or will I need a 3rd-party app?

Thanx

Kevin C. Tofel
04-17-2004, 02:26 PM
I am looking to figure out what the best music file format is for my situation.

I want to find a format that has excellent compression. I have a 64 and 128MB SD Card. I was unsatisfied WMA as it makes huge files.

I'll say right up front that I haven't used anything else other then MP3 & WMA, so I've never tryed OGG or any other formats.

BUT: I'm not sure why WMA doesn't work for you? When you say it makes huge files, do you mean they are larger than your original MP3 files? What bitrate are you using?

I do think that different people will think one format or the other will sound better at the same bitrate. WMA at the same bitrate as MP3 sounds better to me, but others would understandably find the opposite is true.

I guess my point is: I can get smaller sized music files with the same quality or better using WMA at 128k, 160k, or VBR. Perhaps it's because I'm encoding directly from CD music and not MP3 files? I can get about 12 songs on my 64Mg Creative MuVo player, which is all I expect for 64Mg of RAM. How much music are you looking to put on your SD cards?

Thanks,
KCT

Ripper014
04-17-2004, 07:48 PM
ShawnC...

The PocketPC will play ogg files... but you will need a third party application to play them. There are several but my player of choice would be GSPlayer, it is free and you can get it here.

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA032810/

The default skins are pretty awful so here is a site where you can get a better one...

http://www.gsplayer-skins.tk/

I like the one called "Black Beauty" created by some Ripper guy... ;)

JustinGTP
04-17-2004, 10:14 PM
it seems that i am not the only person who find the fm transmitter interesting!

It's an iROCK type device. They should be available in every computer/gadget store on the planet! :wink:

Steve

Discontinued them in all Canadian FutureShops :|

Wiggster
04-18-2004, 12:26 AM
I really want an FM transmitter, but I can't justify it. I drive my car from my apartment to work (half a mile), or to the other end of my school (around a quarter of a mile), and that's about it. I fill up with about 9 gallons every six weeks. That equates to not much time spent in the car, and not enough justification for such a fun device.

QYV
04-18-2004, 03:38 AM
I've used both WMA and OGG extensively on my iPAQ, and I give a slight advantage to WMA. The quality at the same "bit rate" (VBR setting, to be precise) is a bit better with WMA to my ears - but of course "quality" is quite subjective, so your mileage may vary.

I've found the file sizes to be very similar between OGG and WMA for the same bit rate, so if you're getting "huge" file sizes with WMA, I think you need to check to make sure you're ripping/encoding correctly. Also note that both formats should be dramatically superior to standard MP3 in terms of quality vs. file size.

Steven Cedrone
04-18-2004, 04:24 AM
Discontinued them in all Canadian FutureShops :|

Hmmm...

I wonder why? They seem to be quite handy...

Steve

maikii
04-18-2004, 07:26 AM
I am looking to figure out what the best music file format is for my situation.

I want to find a format that has excellent compression. I have a 64 and 128MB SD Card. I was unsatisfied WMA as it makes huge files. I like Real Audio but the player dosen't let me map the keys making it rather useless. I have considered OGG I found a good player but I can't find any burning program to burn from my CD Drive. I also don't know if the compression is good with OGG

To sum it all up Helllllllllllllllllllp :lol:

And what makes you think OGG will give you smaller file sizes than WMA?

The file format does not affect the file size, the bit rate does. Files encoded at 128 kbps will generally take up twice as much file space as the same files encoded at 64 kbps.

OGG, WMA, AAC, and MP3Pro are all variants of MP4, newer compression algorithms than are used in MP3. It is generally stated that you can get the same sound quality as MP3 (with any of these MP4-based formats) at half the compression rate. For instance, the lowest bit rate generally considered to get decent sound quality for music with MP3 is 128kbps. It has been stated that you can get similar sound quality with the MP4-based formats at 64kbps. Not everyone agrees with this however.

But that would be the same for WMA as OGG--both supposed to get better quality for the bit rate (or same quality for lower bit rate) than MP3.

Try encoding the same song to different formats and different bit rates as a test. Listen to the resulting files with the same player and same headphones, and see if you can hear a difference. Decide what balance between sound quality and file size you prefer. I wouldn't suggest going below 64 kbps for WMA, OGG, AAC, or MP3Pro, or below 128 kbps for MP3.

maikii
04-18-2004, 07:28 AM
it seems that i am not the only person who find the fm transmitter interesting!

It's an iROCK type device. They should be available in every computer/gadget store on the planet! :wink:

Steve

If your car has a cassette player, however, I would think the cassette adapter is a better way to go than the FM transmitter.

americaneagle
04-20-2004, 06:55 AM
:wink: Ow, it seems that both sides get a little nasty over a file format. (I hope thats the right term, if it's not I know I will hear about it.) Anyway, I did try it. I am amazed at how well the quality stays at smaller bit rates then WMA does. I have my songs down at 40 and 45 bits and they still sound good. Nothing like my songs at 128 of course but still decent for that bit rate. I copied three cd albums on to a 64mb card. Quite an achievment if I do say so myself. :D

Thanks for the help guys.

hoffm11
04-20-2004, 03:20 PM
Well here is what I have learned the last few days..

I have both PocketPlayer and PocketMusic and I am also test driving CEPlaylist. I really want to find a solution that give me a solid music experience with my HP 2215. I was thinking of getting a MP3 player, but not sure that I need one. Any reasons why a MP3 player might be a better choice than using my pocket pc?

I have been talking back and forth with PocketPlayer support staff via their support forums(very good support!). I was having some issues with WM9 encoded files with PocketPlayer, so they asked me to try Ogg. My WM9 files had a 128 kbs bitrate. I decided to try thr 64kbs Ogg bitrate, and it is great. Very good quality and the file size is much smaller.

My dilema is that I have 2500 + WMA files and I need to encode them to Ogg now... Is there any easy way to do this? I have MediaMonkey and I can convert them all to Ogg pretty simply, but it will take about a day(24 hours) to do this.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

SHC
04-20-2004, 03:48 PM
Why not just change your WMA to 64, I think you would be hard pushed to tell the difference between WMA and OGG both at 64bit. Maybe you should try it first with a couple of sample tracks then decide.

hoffm11
04-20-2004, 03:52 PM
Well.. I have tried 64 kbs WMA and noticed a hissing sound that was annoying.. I haven't had any of those issues with Ogg.. I am also trying out GSPlayer (like it so far).. :)

americaneagle
04-20-2004, 06:55 PM
Well.. I have tried 64 kbs WMA and noticed a hissing sound that was annoying.. I haven't had any of those issues with Ogg.. I am also trying out GSPlayer (like it so far).. :)

:D Exactly my experiance Hoffm11. Just as you said, and it's sounds sooo good even at 45kbs. Compared to WMA.

Ripper014
04-20-2004, 08:56 PM
Hoffm11...

It's been a longtime since I have encoded any audio.. but I believe that dbpowerAMP allows you to batch your encoding sessions... it may still take 24 hours to do the encoding but you don't need to be there to do it.

GSPlayer is my application of choice as well...

maikii
04-21-2004, 06:38 AM
[quote="hoffm11"

My dilema is that I have 2500 + WMA files and I need to encode them to Ogg now... Is there any easy way to do this? I have MediaMonkey and I can convert them all to Ogg pretty simply, but it will take about a day(24 hours) to do this.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated![/quote]

That's not considered a good idea, to take files compressed in one format, and recompress them to another format. That double compression will definitely result in lower quality files than either OGG or WMA ripped directly from CD.

If you want them as Ogg instead of WMA, re-rip them from CD to OGG.

Otherwise, leave them at WMA, and rip new ones to OGG. If you still want to change the old ones to OGG, and it would be too much to re-rip them all at once to OGG, do it little by little. In the meantime, you can still hear them as WMA.

But don't convert one lossy format to another lossy format. That just equals--DOUBLE LOSS! Rip them from the uncompressed CDs.

jgrnt1
04-29-2004, 10:27 PM
Here is an ExtremeTech (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1561918,00.asp) article comparing audio codecs at different bitrates. It might be helpful.

maikii
05-02-2004, 07:56 AM
Here is an ExtremeTech (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1561918,00.asp) article comparing audio codecs at different bitrates. It might be helpful.

Very interesting article. Thank you, jgrnt.

yslee
05-02-2004, 09:24 AM
Now, I might be wrong, but isn't converting from a lossy format to another lossy format not a good idea? My experience is based on recording to ATRAC3 2 and 3 modes.. 2 is at about 160, 3 is about 64. MP3s to 3 sound terrible, but from original CDs they sound ok.

Janak Parekh
05-02-2004, 06:58 PM
Now, I might be wrong, but isn't converting from a lossy format to another lossy format not a good idea?
Correct, transcoding is not the greatest idea in the world. However, depending on what you're doing and your aural sensitivity, it might be acceptable. I'd never do it, but some people do and find no problems doing so.

--janak

divajess
05-05-2004, 08:02 PM
I have pretty sensitive ears, and honestly I have found that re-encoding mp3s that are at least 128kbps to Ogg files that are around 48-64kbps sound pretty darn good. I rarely if ever notice loss, even on my really good headphones.

Obviously it's a personal call and EVERYONE has their opinion :) But it is a lot easier than re-ripping everything.

Janak Parekh
05-07-2004, 04:17 AM
I have pretty sensitive ears, and honestly I have found that re-encoding mp3s that are at least 128kbps to Ogg files that are around 48-64kbps sound pretty darn good. I rarely if ever notice loss, even on my really good headphones.
Well, it also depends very heavily on the music. The worst artifacts come with strings and cymbals; the latter degrade to a generic "tinkle" sound, which I personally can't deal with...

--janak

brahminwitch
05-25-2004, 03:02 AM
8O i am wondering if me dell axim x30 can handle aac/mp4 with windows mobile media player 9 thingy. we'll see...

i am selling my apple soon so i'll do a last transfer of 56kbps aac encoded stuff onto sd.

...............................
hmmm i remember my first tape walkman :wink:

brahminwitch
05-25-2004, 03:07 AM
8O i am wondering if me dell axim x30 can handle aac/mp4 with windows mobile media player 9 thingy. we'll see...

i am selling my apple soon so i'll do a last transfer of 56kbps aac encoded stuff onto sd.

...............................
hmmm i remember my first tape walkman :wink:


yeaahhh i am too lazy to get ogg encoding stuff for mac and an ogg player for pocket pc. although if windows mobile media player 9 can't play mp4 audio then i'll explore the ogg route. thanks for the info in this thread peoples.

Weyoun6
05-25-2004, 09:11 AM
Here is another codec review site - note this is for audiophiles, so they use WMAPro for there tests, a far better codec than WMA standard
http://www.rjamorim.com/test/

I used to like WMA but for the fact that its windows only (for the most part), and i dont only use windows. If I do its always in Pro - not sure if PPC supports that. I like AAC, but Ogg is pretty easy to encode. never convert from one format to another, dont use mp3, always use vbr, and I always rip at 160vbr or better.

I use two diffrent rippers/encoders - Exact Audio Copy (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/) for the best quality and dbPowerAmp (http://www.dbpoweramp.com/) for ease of use.

Janak Parekh
05-29-2004, 07:39 PM
8O i am wondering if me dell axim x30 can handle aac/mp4 with windows mobile media player 9 thingy. we'll see...
WMP9 cannot handle M4A or any such format. :( A third-party prototype Pocket PC player software was released by Philips some time ago, but I never heard of anyone succeeding in using it.

Your best bet may be to burn-and-rerip, although I'm not sure I'd want to hear the artifacts at such a low bitrate. 8O

--janak

maikii
05-29-2004, 09:22 PM
Why do you say that EAC gives the "best quality"?`


Here is another codec review site - note this is for audiophiles, so they use WMAPro for there tests, a far better codec than WMA standard
http://www.rjamorim.com/test/

I used to like WMA but for the fact that its windows only (for the most part), and i dont only use windows. If I do its always in Pro - not sure if PPC supports that. I like AAC, but Ogg is pretty easy to encode. never convert from one format to another, dont use mp3, always use vbr, and I always rip at 160vbr or better.

I use two diffrent rippers/encoders - Exact Audio Copy (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/) for the best quality and dbPowerAmp (http://www.dbpoweramp.com/) for ease of use.