RealNetworks: Rethinking Aggressive Marketing Tactics?

[Pat Logsdon]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,62617,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/...2,62617,00.html</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/logsdon_20040406_real_logo.gif" /> RealNetworks is apparently feeling the pressure from Windows Media Player. After years of alienating customers with aggressive marketing tactics, they're now trying to play nice in an attempt to regain some market share and consumer good will. According to a Wired article, "RealNetworks hasn't been doing itself any favors with its affinity for pop-up ads, icon installations throughout users' computers and aggressive (and sometimes misleading) pitches for subscription products, analysts say. Instead of developing user-friendly products, RealNetworks has been focused on getting as much money as possible from users with each registration. <br /><br />By most accounts, the player itself isn't a bad product. The latest version, Real Player 10, supports every major media format and more than 50 portable media devices, including the iPod. It also includes an integrated online music store, called Rhapsody. The registration process could be easier, however. <br /><br />"I think they are shooting themselves in the foot in terms of the registration process," said design expert Jakob Nielsen. "You click on 'free' and you see costs. That's a very classic thing called bait and switch. Bait and switch really annoys people." <br /><br />Real Networks representatives say that their newest software is "kinder, friendlier, easier", and they've also attempted to update their download page to make it easier for people to find what they want. <br /><br />I've had RealPlayer installed on my system several times over the last few years, and I've always ended up removing it. The last time was several months ago, when I tried to install RealPlayer so I could watch a clip on the BBC news site. 30 minutes later, I was still working through the registration process and reading the reams of fine print to see if I was agreeing to things that I'd later regret. When I finally got through, I found seemingly unremovable icons in several places on my desktop, and I spent another 30 minutes wiping it from my system and chopping off all of the tentacles. :evil: At this point, they'd have to pay me (and not a small amount) to install their player, no matter how hard they've tried to make amends. What do you think?

[PiatekHS]

I agree completely, RealPlayer (before Real One) was excellent. The subsequent problem was that you couldn't even use RealPlayer anylonger as it kept asking you to upgrade to Real One.

iTunes is now my favourite, excellent in all respects except that WMP can be docked to a toolbar on the the taskbar.

[William]

This is why I stopped using Real a long time ago. I just can't understand why the European Commission is punishing Microsoft for delivering WMP with Windows. At least now most news sites support both Real and WMP video clips but that's only after WMP got a large user base (BBC is not offering everything in both formats, BTW). Before that, you needed Real + WMP + QuickTime to be sure you could see everything. I'm glad those times have changed!

[Dazbot]

I also agree, when I want to watch RealPlayer files I use my Pocket PC and the pocket version which doesn't display ads, or keeps telling me to upgrade or have flashing icons in the system tray.

I usually give up when trying to navigate their website. I always seem to end up at a payment page or end up going round in circles.

Why can't the BBC website use a more open format like mpeg or divx?

[joelevi]

At this point, they'd have to pay me (and not a small amount) to install their player, no matter how hard they've tried to make amends. What do you think?

Amen!

Real Ads... er, Real Player has no place on my computers or my Pocket PC.

Idealistically, why can't there be a Real Codec, an Quick Time Codec, a DiVX/XViD Codec, and a Windows Media Codec, in addition to the standard codecs (.mp2/3, .wav, .au/.aiff, etc.) that are available for ANY player.

Using this model, one could play all media in one unified media player, no need for four (or more). You could pick, for example, WinAmp to play all your media (Real, .QT/.MOV, and WM9, etc.).

Why not? I'm ready to abandon QuickTime. I've already foresaken Real, Windows Media 9 seems to be (technologically) the best of the bunch... but I want a world with choices, not one where my choices are either limited or made for me.

[guinness]

I've actually found Real Player 10 to be pretty decent, and I've disliked Real Player for a very long time now. I use it sometimes to transfer files to my Minidisc player (Sonicstage 2.0 for the rest of the time) and it's fairly easy to use. And unlike previous versions, it doesn't try and hijack your file associations.

[JackTheTripper]

If there is a link and the only option is Real, I just dont' watch/listen. Simple as that. I got tired of it years ago. Quick Time? Love it. WMP for anything QT can't handle.

[foebea]

Yay for realnetworks getting it straight.
I do hope that they do this right. If it only turns into a half effort, then it is all wasted, but if they throw in the ad-revenue towel, i see bright things in the future for them. :)

[Jonathon Watkins]

The BBC is the only reason I have Real installed...... :?

[OSUKid7]

NASA TV is the only "real" reason I have RealPlayer installed. And it was a pain getting it to work. :roll:

[cmchavez]

Much as I hate to admit to being a slave of the M$ system, I much prefer using WMP as my viewer of choice. :oops:

Real was fine when they had the Real Player; as soon as "RealOne" came onto the scene, they turned to junk. Currently, I put them on the same level as Gator... :devilboy:

[topps]

I've had RealPlayer installed on my system several times over the last few years, and I've always ended up removing it. The last time was several months ago, when I tried to install RealPlayer so I could watch a clip on the BBC news site. 30 minutes later, I was still working through the registration process and reading the reams of fine print to see if I was agreeing to things that I'd later regret. When I finally got through, I found seemingly unremovable icons in several places on my desktop, and I spent another 30 minutes wiping it from my system and chopping off all of the tentacles. :evil: At this point, they'd have to pay me (and not a small amount) to install their player, no matter how hard they've tried to make amends. What do you think?

That exactly reflect my experience with their product(s). It has so wasted my time and annoyed me that I will not use Real for anything. If that is the only format in which the file is available then I do without it. Nothing has been worth the pain the Real has caused.

The worst was when it caused a highly unstable system with frequent crashes all by itself. And as with your experience, I found that removing it was tedious and covoluted. A good stock to short sell I think - they are going down but methinks this is the band playing on the Titanic - the old "kinder and easier interface" waltz.

[kevinsb1]

I think the Real player offers a better smoother picture with video feeds compared to Microsoft's player. Is it just me, I have viewed streaming video on a bunch of web sites.

Thoughts??

However hate how real always hijacks file associations.

[Felix Torres]

I avoid Real like the plague...
...if I run into a web site that only streams Real formats, I go someplace else...
I don't need the nagging, the extension hijacking, or the spamming.

And I deeply resent Mr Glasser's sense of entitlement; the way he assumes that if WMP did not exist, we would all be using his crapware.
Wrong!
I'd sooner use Quicktime/iTunes.

The simple fact is he put all his tecno-eggs in the streaming basket, while MS had the vision to realize that the same tecniques that allow streaming audio and video over dialup also allow high-quality, highly compressed static media files and that there was more money to be made from getting your video codec adopted as the heart of the next generation High Definition DVD standard than there ever will be in internet streaming.

Besides, he conveniently forgets that Windows had a media player built-in long before there was a Real Player...

[PPCRules]

At this point, they'd have to pay me (and not a small amount) to install their player, no matter how hard they've tried to make amends. What do you think?
Me too. I long ago had enough. There have been a few cases since when I've run into a situation where content was only in Real format, and I've passed on it. To clutter my system with all the junk that the old versions had was simply not worth it. I can't understand anyone using Real format (exclusively, at least), because they are loosing out on a lot of potential customers.

Too bad they didn't die off long ago. Now, the antitrust regulators will ensure their survival, but we really don't need them (Real, I mean).

[rpommier]

I refuse to load Realplayer on any of my systems at home... I suggest my wife and kids find another stream if they happen upon something that requires Real.

If they really do follow through and provide a player that won't "Borg" my system I might consider. As it stands now, too little too late.

[bvkeen]

Amen to no more RealOne or derivative for me. Should be a Harvard Business School case study on how Not to compete.

Bruce Keener

[dartman]

My experiences have been mostly the same as others here.

I regard Realplayer, Yahoo, and AOL as viruses.

I don't think its possible to uninstall them and remove all traces.

dart

[DanNotDan]

My first thought was of the last time I installed Real Player. I ultimately had to reinstall the OS because each time I thought I had uninstalled all the extra junk, something else would pop up (no pun intended). The quickest way for Real to go out of business would be if they had to pay us all back for time we've lost fixing things their software broke.
That said (and it felt great to say it), it just clicked for me that my new computer at work came with Real pre-installed a couple weeks ago. I immediately uninstalled it and -- guess what -- it uninstalled, no problem. That alone is a tremendous step in the right direction and gives me second thoughts about banning it from my computer. I'm not rushing out and getting the new version, but I am definitely giving it serious consideration.

[johncruise]

It was a nightmare when I jumped to RealOne. I am not getting back to that route again. No way.

[suddenly_ike]

The realone player for pocketpc works fine, although I prefer windowsmedia player.
Go see http://www.pocketpcmedia.com for a list of windows media streams and realmedia streams that work on a pocketpc.

The BBC is available in real format.

[Ainvar]

Real is never going on any system I have ever.... It come on my Nokia 3650 and there was no way to remove it. I hate the company, I hate the software. When you did try to look for the free download you could never find it, it was always pointing you to a place to buy it. When you did find the free version the first thing it did after borking your system, killing all your file extensions, and placing itself all over your system like a virus was to tell you it needed an important update. But to get this important update you had to buy the product... I am sorry I will never ever give money to them. They would have to pay me alot of money and purchase ma dedicated system and network to place it on to use it also. I prefer wmp with codecs. I use quicktime when I have to but wmp or divx playa is what I prefer overall. When do I have to use something diffrent I use the quicktime or repl alternative player on a test system that I have. Atleast there it is not something that will take over my system.

[Zack Mahdavi]

I used to love Real Player in the late 90s. Real Player and Real Jukebox were my favorite applications. Then Real decided to start a subscription model, and introduced RealOne. It was good originally, but then the ads came... That's when RealOne was uninstalled off of my PC.

The Mac version is called Real One, but it's basically just the player. So I still have Real Player installed, but the Mac version doesn't contain the subscription model and the ads.

Too bad Real decided to go the way of Kazaa and annoy their users instead of inspiring them. Oh well.... hopefully things will change soon.

[szamot]

They would have to be including a free PPC and a PC then I would consider "owning it" As it stands now they are the vermil of adware. Not for me, no thanks. I personally don't think that they merit a second chance.

[tzirbel]

I totally agree. I can't believe how many hours I wasted getting that crap off my system. It was a nightmare of adds and icons just to view a streaming video of a freak'n news cast. Never, Never again. Real can go to hell and take it's player with it.

[dh]

I agree with the others, I have not had Real Player on any of my systems for a few years and have no intention of using it again.

The BBC should offer content in other formats, having just Real is as bad as those few sites that only offer Quicktime.

Until there is a better option I'll continue to just read the BBC news.

[SassKwatch]

At this point, they'd have to pay me (and not a small amount) to install their player, no matter how hard they've tried to make amends. What do you think?
Ditto.

[dean_shan]

At this point, they'd have to pay me (and not a small amount) to install their player, no matter how hard they've tried to make amends. What do you think?

Amen!

Real Ads... er, Real Player has no place on my computers or my Pocket PC.

Idealistically, why can't there be a Real Codec, an Quick Time Codec, a DiVX/XViD Codec, and a Windows Media Codec, in addition to the standard codecs (.mp2/3, .wav, .au/.aiff, etc.) that are available for ANY player.


That's why I use Real Alternative (http://home.hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm). It is so much better then RealOne.

[Steven Cedrone]

NASA TV is the only "real" reason I have RealPlayer installed. And it was a pain getting it to work. :roll:

I installed it for the same reason. Real made it ugly for me though, for no apparent reason file associations would change and point to the Real Player. I would change them back and before you knew it, they would be changed again. I finally bailed on it...

Steve

[ZiL]

I got tired of it long ago. Havent try it again though.

[tonyv]

I would never let this company near my computer!

My father called me in dismay because he was being billed monthly not just once, but twice! by RealNetworks after trying to view a baseball game online wth their "free" player. I'm not sure exactly what he did to get this this situation (he was a computer novice at the time), but I do know I had to drive 200 miles and make a bunch of phone calls to clean up the mess.

I thought I was the only one to passionately hate this company. I'm glad I'm not alone.

[Gremmie]

That's why I use Real Alternative (http://home.hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm). It is so much better then RealOne.

I also use RealAlternative--great program

[sylvangale]

Real is probably the best multimedia app when it comes to active streaming and can be much less irritating if you go through real preferences and setting it up the way you want to function.

Real doesn't just grab file associations unless the user chose to allow it and it can be disabled.

Run "msconfig" to stop applications from starting up when you don't want them to.

... and one should never give out their credit card number for "free" software. 8O :mrgreen:

[jizmo]

I also use RealAlternative--great program

So this is some kind of lighter replacement for the RealOne player? Sounds very interesting.

Here's one more vote for not ever installing RealOne to my computer.

/jizmo

[manywhere]

&lt;Rant Warning>
I don't like RealOne (more like BadOne) since it seems to:
only want to spy on everything that I do,
pop-up ads,
hog CPU time,
leave a foul smell in my mouth as if I've been cheated on something everytime I use it... :pukeface2:


Neither Apple is better with their Quicktime ads that pop-up everytime after I've used QT. I do not want to buy the f"%/&amp;#"! QuickTime Pro, can't Apple get it!? :roll:
&lt;/Rant Warning>

Felt good to get that out of my system. :lol: Many thanks Dean_Shan for the link to Real Alternative! :D

[dean_shan]

Neither Apple is better with their Quicktime ads that pop-up everytime after I've used QT. I do not want to buy the f"%/&amp;#"! QuickTime Pro, can't Apple get it!? :roll:
&lt;/Rant Warning>

Felt good to get that out of my system. :lol: Many thanks Dean_Shan for the link to Real Alternative! :D

If you hate QT for Windows just use QuickTime Alternative. You find the link for it on my previous post. It's on the same site as Real Alternative.

[ChristopherTD]

I echo what most people have said. I am a software developer and know my way around my PC, yet I have had to waste way too much time installing, deinstalling and then cleaning up registry, desktop and associations after occasional attempts to view Real media files.

For me, as for many here, never again, not in any form.

[Zensbikeshop]

The BBC is the only reason I have Real installed...... :?

Me too... my daughter loves the CBeebies!

I however hate Real and will be trying Real Alternative

[bjornkeizers]

Much as I hate to admit to being a slave of the M$ system, I much prefer using WMP as my viewer of choice. :oops:

Real was fine when they had the Real Player; as soon as "RealOne" came onto the scene, they turned to junk. Currently, I put them on the same level as Gator... :devilboy:

Same here. I may moan and bitch about MS, but at least they don't bother you with a zillion pop-ups and ask for your money... (yet) You couldn't pay me enough to install RealDonkeyCrap....

Oh and that Gator comment was totally uncalled for - they don't ask for money every two seconds :lol:

[rugerx]

Real stinks, period.

If I visit a site with only real streams, I dont watch.

[Prevost]

Yeah, I didn't read through the previous posts, but my experience with Real Player was that I had to remove it from my PC via advise in a PocketPC Thoughts thread I started asking for the crashing problems the PC "suddenly" started to suffer.

Some folks here just said, "It looks as you installed Real Player, didn't you?" And yes, I did.

So, I don't think I'll give it another try any soon. And Windows Media Player is S-W-E-E-T, thank you :rock on dude!:

[Gremmie]

I also use RealAlternative--great program

So this is some kind of lighter replacement for the RealOne player? Sounds very interesting.

Here's one more vote for not ever installing RealOne to my computer.

/jizmo

Yeah, it's very basic, it uses the realplayer codec but isn't RealOne or RealPlayer 10. No ads, one icon, give it a try...

[marbing]

I have also removed any Real One players from my machine and from the machines of my friends. As a piece of FascistWare, RealOne is at the top of the heap. It tries to take over even the basic functions of your computer.

If you are not careful, you end up with Real Download (spyware) and even if you avoid all the unsolicited addins that they try to stick you with, the simple Basic Player is frought with dangers for the unsuspecting user.

I can't count the number of times I have received panicked calls from my non-techie frineds that the sound on their compuer has stopped working...completely or that they can barely hear any output from thier speakers at all. The problem is, invariably, the Real Player which makes whatever settings are made in the player the DEFAULT for the system. Mute the Player and the whole computer is muted. Turn the volume down and you will never get more than a whisper out of your expensive sound card.

I now make it a point of emailing every website that doesn't offer a choice of formats to let them know that not everybody appreciates having to install thie REALly rotten software!

[Bill Gunn]

If there is a link and the only option is Real, I just dont' watch/listen. Simple as that. I got tired of it years ago. Quick Time? Love it. WMP for anything QT can't handle.

I agree 100%. I apply that same philosophy to Flash Player. If a site's content is only available in Flash I'll never see it, and that's ok. Ninety percent of the Flash content on the web is advertisements anyway.

[Darren Behan]

Wow. When I saw the number of replies to this thread on the front page I thought there'd be a right good pro and con battle going on. Turns out everyone is pretty much disgusted with Real. Sadly, so am I. The few times I've ever installed it, it didn't stay on my machine for more than a day.

db

[Jon Westfall]

Here is a real player horror story: About 2 years ago, my father started complaing that his computer's hard drive was filling up fast. After hours of trying to find the culprit, it was found to be an old version of real player. Seems that my firewall had blocked its transmissions to the mothership about how weird it was that it was still in use (it was the default version that shipped with win98). I had disabled its upgrade warnings, so all it could do was write very small (>10k) files with error logs in them. They ended up taking up over a gig of space and forever to delete. They would recreate themselves at a rate of 2 - 3 per second if I let them!

I hate real player, i hate Real in general, and I loath the hoops you have to jump through just to get their stupid player. Anyone who adopts real as their only form of streaming technology ought to be persuaded (forcefully) otherwise.

[Jeff Rutledge]

After what I went through trying to cancel a trial subscription (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24623&highlight=real), I won't be trying Real again anytime soon.
:byebye: :takethat:

[Rob Alexander]

So this company decides it's marketing strategy is to assimilate every computer it can find :robot: and make its product nearly impossible to remove, thereby irritating :really mad: nearly every computer owner on the planet.

Now we've all gotten rid of it (my story's just like all of yours) and now they decide perhaps a less agressive strategy :hippy: might be a good idea?!

Sorry, but there's no way I'd bite on that. :twak: This company can't go out of business fast enough to satisfy me. They are the poster company for low-life scumbag marketing tactics and emblematic of everything that's wrong with online marketing these days.

[mmarkovich]

I feel better now, I thought that I was “Politically” incorrect and biased against them while brutally uninstalling them everywhere I can find them like i.e. +1000 computers in company I work for, yes as IT :lol: We actually have to forbid users from downloading, because of issues already listed in this forum…
I just this week wanted to tray their player for my Treo 600, guess what, their “free” download actually is asking you to sign-up for their Music Store, yes with credit card. One is absolutely not given a chance to download it for free, not even a chance to pay for the Player without signing in to their Music Store, just forget it…
Not that I am a MS lover, prefer Solaris anyway, but Real One and AOL are among those companies that should be part of history because of their business practices as well as their technological breakthroughs and contributions...

[klinux]

RP10 works fine on my machine... necessary evil like QT, WMP, etc...

[johnm]

I will never install real software on any of my computers again. I've been Real free for almost 2 years now. I usually give companies several chances, and each time they burned me. The last time I did an install and told it not to take over my file associations, icons etc and it did it anyway was enough for me.

[richfiddler11]

A few years ago, under the misguided notion that I should pay for programs that I found useful, I actually gave Real my credit card number and bought the player -- big mistake!

As part of the deal, I got a "free" month of some subscription service that I didn't want and never even tried to use. 6 months later, I noticed I was getting billed $9.95 per month from Real.

A call to their customer service department revealed that by clicking the EULA, I was agreeing to continue payment of the "free" service until I actively cancelled it.

Despite proving to the Real rep that I had never used the service, they would only refund 1 month, making a $20 purchase into a $60 one.

Real demonstrated their true business philosophy "Never give a sucker an even break"

I hope they rot in cyber hell 0X