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teq
04-05-2004, 01:36 PM
I've just received a brand new Hitachi 4 GB Microdrive HD for my Ipaq 2210. (It's actually so small/light that when I had the envelope in my hand, I thought they had forgotten to put the Microdrive into the envelope... :D)

It's a great gadget - very fast and an incredible amount of storage space. Two questions though:
- Casing: I don't want to keep it inserted in my 2210 all the time in order to save battery (though I haven't yet found out how much faster the 2210's battery drains when the Microdrive is inserted). I don't want to keep the Microdrive in my normal notebook pocket without any additional protection. Can you recommend a CF card case?

- Inserting the Microdrive into the 2210's CF card slot was pretty easy - getting it out again is a different story (at least with the Hitachi OEM version I got) - it's not possible to pull it out with your fingers because the microdrive's surface is too smooth. I only pulled it out once carefully using small flat pliers - nothing that I want to do an a regular basis. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
teq

Steven Cedrone
04-05-2004, 01:45 PM
- Inserting the Microdrive into the 2210's CF card slot was pretty easy - getting it out again is a different story (at least with the Hitachi OEM version I got) - it's not possible to pull it out with your fingers because the microdrive's surface is too smooth. I only pulled it out once carefully using small flat pliers - nothing that I want to do an a regular basis. Any suggestions?

Tape should do the trick! Put a piece of tape on it (folded over) so that you have a "tab" to pull on!

As far as cases go: I have a caselogic that I store all of my CF cards in. I don't think I would reccomend that, for a microdrive I would just get a seperate plastic case for it.

Steve

maikii
04-14-2004, 05:19 AM
How have you found this 4 GB Microdrive to work with your IPAQ so far? Any problems? Does it slow it down? More crashes?

Have you found it to shorten battery life?

Hx4700
04-14-2004, 05:55 PM
teq-
Two quick points - don't cover the air hole on back (its clearly marked) with the tape.
And I've read to format FAT32 with 32k clusters for fastest access speeds.
Ron...

mikewren
04-15-2004, 05:03 AM
I bet you didn't forget it was installed 30 minutes later when your battery was dead ;)

What's been your real-world batter usage been like with the 4GB micro-drive?

teq
04-15-2004, 08:38 PM
@steven:
thanks for the tip. Hm, tape - not sure whether I'd like the looks of it. Haven't made up my mind yet - still looking for another way.

@maiki:
The drive works very well (no crashes). I've noticed a short slowdown when turning on the device - the time the drive needs to start spinning, I guess. Not really a problem, but noticeable. Currently, I use the drive mostly to listen to wma-files. It's really cool not to worry about storage space anymore - the Hitachi Microdrive adds up to a whopping 4.5 GB memory together with my Toshiba 512 SD card... :D

@ronaldb1:
Yeah, thanks for the warning, I noticed the air hole - it's properly labeled. Hm, formating FAT32 with 32K cluster? I simply formatted it when I first inserted it into my 2210 - no options whatsoever. I haven't yet purchased the Sandisk CF/SD-USB2 reader - is anybody using this? Looks damn sexy...

@mikewren:
Well, battery life hasn't decreased dramatically, really. e.g. it's no problem at all to listen to wma-files for more than two hours (backlight turned off, of course...).

Cheers,
teq

Ahmad_ie
04-17-2004, 05:15 AM
how much does it cost u, thanks

maikii
04-18-2004, 12:37 AM
teq-
Two quick points - don't cover the air hole on back (its clearly marked) with the tape.
And I've read to format FAT32 with 32k clusters for fastest access speeds.
Ron...


I don't know what cluster sizes the IPAQ 2210 supports, and how it formats the clusters itself. (And isn't it also formatted as FAT32 for the Muvo? Does it really need to be re-formatted?)

However, I know in general that larger cluster sizes, while perhaps providing faster access speeds, also reduce the amount of storage space, by increasing cluster slack.

maikii
04-18-2004, 08:30 AM
Janak,

You locked the discussion of this subject in the Hardware/IPAQ forum. True, they were discussing the same topic. But in different forums. It certainly fits the IPAQ forum, since it is a question of how these cards have worked specifically in IPAQs. Some people might read that forum who do not read the "Just Chattin'" forum, and therefore someone interested in the subject might miss the discussion altogether.

pootp
04-18-2004, 01:52 PM
teq, is this one of those extracted hard drives from the creative muvo 2 4gb mp3 player?

Janak Parekh
04-19-2004, 01:06 AM
You locked the discussion of this subject in the Hardware/IPAQ forum. True, they were discussing the same topic. But in different forums. It certainly fits the IPAQ forum, since it is a question of how these cards have worked specifically in IPAQs. Some people might read that forum who do not read the "Just Chattin'" forum, and therefore someone interested in the subject might miss the discussion altogether.
Hmmm.... the thing is, this discussion is talking about the same device (an iPAQ 2210). About the only "proper" course of action would be to move this thread to the iPAQ forum as well. If people feel that's appropriate, I can do that.

--janak

teq
04-19-2004, 10:23 AM
how much does it cost u, thanks
Ahmad, I'm living in Germany where hardware generally is more expensive than in the US (why that is the case I don't know - EU regulations/rip-off, probably). I got the drive on ebay for 269 EUR (which I consider a good price around here) - so I guess you should be able to get it in the US for less than the same amount in US$ (?).

teq, is this one of those extracted hard drives from the creative muvo 2 4gb mp3 player?
pootp, I have no idea - certainly don't hope so... The drive was advertised on ebay as "NEW HITACHI/IBM 4GB/4 GB MICRODRIVE"; it seems to be the OEM version of this drive.


I don't know what cluster sizes the IPAQ 2210 supports, and how it formats the clusters itself. (And isn't it also formatted as FAT32 for the Muvo? Does it really need to be re-formatted?)

However, I know in general that larger cluster sizes, while perhaps providing faster access speeds, also reduce the amount of storage space, by increasing cluster slack.
maikii, as stated above I don't know about the technical issues (whether it is formated as FAT32), but I can tell you that the 2210 required my microdrive to be formatted the first time I inserted it into the CF-slot.

Cheers,
teq

kosmos
04-23-2004, 09:02 PM
I have been trying a 1GB IBM CF Microdrive in my 2210 with Pocket Player - what a treat it is to load it up with music, got about 10 CD's worth of 192kbps mp3's on it. Problem is power consumption, after a hour of use the battery dropped to 50%, that's with screen off. But it manage to sustain physical activity at the gym, including the supercircuit, no jumps skips or any interuptions but I know its just a matter of time before it crashes. I am used to running 6 hours with a 256MB CG and 512MB SD, I fear this setup will not last more than 2 hours away from power.

What kinda of power does this 4GB CF drive draw? and how does this compare say to a 2GB FLASH RAM CF?

I am tempted to wait for prices to drop before getting the capacity I need to keep a decent music library, and I would prefer to keep it all solid state.

maikii
04-24-2004, 06:35 PM
Actually, the cheapest way to get one (has been written about here before) is to buy the Creative Labs Muvo2 4GB MP3 Player. They sell for $199, and people have written on the Internet (including somewhere in these forums) how to take out the Hitachi 4GB Microdrive from it, which then can go in the IPAQ.

I recently bought one of these and am trying to decide whether to keep it as a music player, or take it apart to put the Microdrive in my IPAQ. It's a little scary to do the latter, I would be voiding the warranty on the Muvo, and I would be doing the process based on posts on the Internet, from people I don't know. I may go ahead and try it though.

In fact, that's where the microdrives on Ebay have come from. Ebay sellers have bought up large amounts of those Muvos to rip out the drives, and resell them for more than the $199 they paid for the music player. That has made the Muvos hard to get, as as soon as Creative Labs or a retailer gets some in stock, they are bought up right away by the Ebay drive sellers.

Hopefully Hitachi will get the message soon, and lower the inflated price they are charging for the drive sold separately.

By the way, I saw an article yesterday that SimpleTech will be coming out with an 8GB Compact Flash Card in a couple months! Yes--8 GB of Flash memory, not a hard drive! It will probably be pretty expensive at first, but a year later???

I just checked www.pricewatch.com, and you can get a 2 GB compact flash card for $164 now. That's another option--half the size of the 4GB microdrive, but cheaper, and without the battery and possible other problems of the microdrive.

With 2 GB being the current highest size of compact flash cards, surprised there will be an 8 GB card soon, without 4 and 6 coming out first!

By the way, in looking at Pricewatch, I saw that 512 MB SD cards can now be bought for $90.

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
04-24-2004, 08:09 PM
I went ahead and just bought one of the 4GB microdrives from eBay. The drives seem to be selling now for about $200-$220. I figured that I'd rather not have to deal with pulling apart a Muvo and either throwing away or going through the hassle of trying to sell the Muvo (minus Microdrive). I'm experimenting with my device now to see what kind of power draw it pulls from the device (hp2215).

The device is definitely not losing all of its charge in 30 minutes as suggested earlier. I'll report back later.

kosmicki
04-25-2004, 02:32 AM
I just checked www.pricewatch.com, and you can get a 2 GB compact flash card for $164 now. That's another option--half the size of the 4GB microdrive, but cheaper, and without the battery and possible other problems of the microdrive.

Actually, the cheapest 2GB CF card is $330. A Sandisk, everything before that is a MicroDrive. (Look at a close up on the Trancend 'CF+ TypeII 1" HDD' and you see what it is)

One of the few things I dislike about pricewatch, calling the damn microdrives CF cards...

www.pricegrabber.com on the other hand, is MUCH better for searching memory. Even breaks it down to price per meg/gig. Lowest price there is $310. (Yes thats with shipping) No microdrives scattered around the CF cards either.

Just my $3.76

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
04-25-2004, 03:31 AM
Well for those of you curious about how the 4GB Microdrive performs in terms of battery performance. I charged up my hp2215 all the way and then left it idle for 5 hours with the microdrive plugged in. After 5 hours, the battery still showed 100% charge remaining.

I then played a 1h30min DivX movie using PocketMVP with caching activated to the max (12MB). After the movie completed, my battery showed 46% remaining. I also pulled out the card just to see how hot the card was and was pleased to find that I didn't notice the card being any hotter than I would have expected my standard CF card to be.

Not too shabby if you ask me. While I don't know exact figures, I typically expect such a movie played via a standard CF card would drain the battery to around 50-60%.

Overall, I'm very pleased!!

Ekkie Tepsupornchai
04-25-2004, 03:37 AM
I don't know what cluster sizes the IPAQ 2210 supports, and how it formats the clusters itself. (And isn't it also formatted as FAT32 for the Muvo? Does it really need to be re-formatted?)
Actually, I think I read somewhere that the Muvo2 doesn't pre-format the drive to FAT/FAT32. It uses some proprietary file allocation system. Never verified that for sure but I know that upon inserting my card for the 1st time, my PPC was unable to read and prompted me to reformat.
However, I know in general that larger cluster sizes, while perhaps providing faster access speeds, also reduce the amount of storage space, by increasing cluster slack.
True. My general advice would be that if you plan to store a very large number of smaller sized files, then FAT32 may not be most efficient.

In my case, I plan to use my card for a smaller number of larger files (movies, videos, and music). So the impact of the larger cluster sizes will be quite minimal.

Len M.
04-28-2004, 02:18 PM
You can use Softwinter's StorageTools to format it to 64 KB clusters. That's what we're doing here.

You can see benchmarks run with SPB Benchmark on our site:

http://www.core-sound.com/CF-and-SD-mass-storage-comparison.html


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

nosmohtac
04-28-2004, 04:17 PM
Can anyone confirm for me, that the microdrive doesn't spin unless accessing files from it? I would only invest in one of these, if I could leave it in my device without a big drain on the battery unless it was actually accessing something from it.

Len M.
04-29-2004, 01:23 PM
Also, 4 GB compact flash memory cards are already available from Lexar. You can occasionally buy them on eBay for as low as $700.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

maikii
05-02-2004, 07:14 AM
Also, 4 GB compact flash memory cards are already available from Lexar. You can occasionally buy them on eBay for as low as $700.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

Low??? THey are not going to sell many at that price!!

One can buy a 4GB Microdrive that fits in the same slot for $199 (through buying the Creative Muvo2 4GB music player, and extracting the HD), or you can buy two 2GB CF cards for $336. (At www.pricewatch.com, 2 GB flash cards currently listed at $168 each.)

maikii
05-02-2004, 07:36 AM
I just checked www.pricewatch.com, and you can get a 2 GB compact flash card for $164 now. That's another option--half the size of the 4GB microdrive, but cheaper, and without the battery and possible other problems of the microdrive.

Actually, the cheapest 2GB CF card is $330. A Sandisk, everything before that is a MicroDrive. (Look at a close up on the Trancend 'CF+ TypeII 1" HDD' and you see what it is)

One of the few things I dislike about pricewatch, calling the damn microdrives CF cards...

www.pricegrabber.com on the other hand, is MUCH better for searching memory. Even breaks it down to price per meg/gig. Lowest price there is $310. (Yes thats with shipping) No microdrives scattered around the CF cards either.

Just my $3.76

I just checked this out, and found out you are right! The $168 2GB CF cards are indeed microdrives, which you don't find out until you click "Buy Now" and get to the dealer site. I agree--micro hard drives should not be listed with flash memory, they should be listed under hard drives. I just wrote a complaint to Pricewatch about this.

maikii
05-02-2004, 07:52 AM
Actually, the cheapest 2GB CF card is $330. A Sandisk, everything before that is a MicroDrive. (Look at a close up on the Trancend 'CF+ TypeII 1" HDD' and you see what it is)

One of the few things I dislike about pricewatch, calling the damn microdrives CF cards...



Look at this one though, a link from Pricewatch:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-160-136&depa=0

It certainly looks like flash memory from the description. Not the slightest reference to hard drive or microdrive, but it says "Compact Flash Memory". If that is indeed a hard drive, the retailer (newegg.com), is being extremely dishonest.

Len M.
05-02-2004, 04:24 PM
The 2.2 GB CF card is almost certainly a relabeled Magicstor Microdrive.

Someone asked why anyone would choose a 4 GB CF memory card over a Hitachi 4 GB hard drive. The flash memory cards are much faster and some applications (like high-res audio recording) need the speed. Also, in general, flash memory uses less power than hard drives.


Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com