A Little Too Much Wireless For My Own Good?

[Jason Dunn]

Now that I <a href="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37121">have an SPV E200</a>, I'm interested in using it as a Bluetooth modem for my iPAQ 4350. I'm in the process of getting that set up (and once again cursing screwy Bluetooth implementations), but I've noticed one thing: the Pocket PC operating system doesn't seem to deal very well with multiple types of connections. <br /><br />For instance, when I was only using WiFi on my iPAQ 4150, everything worked perfectly. Wireless = WiFi, so I'd turn it on, it would connect, and I'd be able to use Pocket Inbox and Pocket Internet Explorer to get down to business. After I did my first attempt at configuring Bluetooth, all of a sudden I had a "broken" device. I turned on the WiFi radio, and waited for it to connect...and waited...and waited. I went into Connection Manager and it showed the access point as available, but it wouldn't automatically connect to WiFi. Under the Network Management tab, programs that require Internet access were set to use Bluetooth settings. This apparently overrides everything else.<br /><br />Am I missing something here? Is there no hierarchical method of dealing with connectivity? Why isn't the Pocket PC smart enough to detect that the Bluetooth radio isn't turned on, but the WiFi one is, and it should use that instead? Better yet, why isn't it smart enough to try multiple methods of connecting based on user preference: i.e., I'd prefer to connect via WiFi when possible, but if that's not possible, use GPRS on my phone over Bluetooth. I can't say that I'm surprised this is so broken though - the Pocket PC has never seemed to be designed with future connectivity scenarios in mind. Microsoft seems to fix most things after the fact. :? If I'm wrong about how this works though, and the Pocket PC can do what I want, I'm happy to eat my words. :D <br /><br />With wireless devices coming this year that have GPRS, WiFi, and Bluetooth in one package, this will be a nightmare unless Microsoft has made this process easier in Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition. How do the rest of you deal with this?

[silentmuse]

Shrug. my 2210 works fine with wifi and bluetooth. When wifi is available, it uses it. when not, I can connect via bluetooth. *shrug*. I didn't configure anything special, it just worked....

[JonnoB]

This is the same connection mangler problem that prohibits intelligent use of VPN connectivity. Microsoft in its attempt to make it simple, made it so it is impossible to have more than one logical connection. For example, when I am home, I need to get email via VPN, but my VPN connection does not have internet connectivity. When I am in the office, I do not need VPN, but have no proxy server. I have to manually change my network settings every single time I switch between access points and switch between in the office and out.

[EricMCarson]

Wow, I have never had issues like this in my 4150. When I want to use my T610 for a BT modem, I turn the BT on. When I want to use my WiFi network at home or office, I turn the WiFi radio on. When I'm not using either, I turn them off. But I have had them both on during several occassions and have never had an issues.

[Arne Hess]

Not sure if it is a general Connection Manager problem or if it might be a Bluetooth implementation "problem" (NO, I'm not trying to sell you Connection Manager as the best piece of software on earth, really! ;-))?

However, I think it depends on which Bluetooth stack implementation is used. The iPAQs are using the Widcomm stack (which is a great one) but therefore it seems to require a different connection type = Bluetooth.

For instance, the Xda II aka i-mate Phone Edition is using the Microsoft stack which works great for me. In fact I have three different connection types:

* Built-in GPRS
* Plug-in Wi-Fi through the SanDisk SD card
* Bluetooth dial-up to my Nokia UMTS/3G terminal

and most of the time, the device knows what I want to use. Wi-Fi overrides GPRS and UMTS, GPRS overrides UMTS which is how I expect it.

[adamz]

I usually do about 8 taps to get to the part of the Connection manager where you can manually tap & hold on the connection that you want to connect to and choose "connect".

It doesn't know which connection I want to use, and how could it?! I seriously don't see why this has to be so complicated. Just have a "new connection" button that creates shortcuts to each connection type. Then you tap on the one you want to use! What could be simpler? Maybe each connection type could have a priority value that signifies which connection to try first (by default when no connection is selected). If that one is not available, try the next. But of course, you wouldn't use that because it would be too slow for the PDA to figure out which was available.

My XDA II doesn't know if I want to connect to T-Mobile WAP (for free unlimited HTTP, WAP, POP, IMAP, SMTP)... or if I want to connect to a pay-per-download GPRS connection for other stuff.. or if I want to connect to a GSM-CSD connection... or if I want to connect to a Bluetooth Dialup modem.

Just give me a list of connection presets that I can tap and connect to!

[Jimmy Dodd]

I've always had problems with the way connections are handled in the PPC. I use WiFi in three different places: at work, at home, and at a local coffee shop. In each location I have to manually go in to the WiFi settings and turn on or turn off the SSID access name in order to get connected. Why can't I have multiple connection setups? Bluetooth is constantly mangled on my device because I have to reconfigure it depending on which host I'm connecting to. Throw in a modem (which I've given up on) and the whole mix is a big pain.

And don't even get me started on the whole Work/The Internet fiasco... :roll:

[Bandito]

I had a very similar (virtually identical) problem, which I posted about a few months ago here (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18127&highlight=). Not that many replies, and I still haven't gotten it working completely. I've got it working to the point where it's relatively straightforward, but still requires manual effort to establish a connection with BT. Also, if you turn BT and WiFi on at the same time then try to surf, you're just asking for trouble. For some reason the BT GPRS takes precedence over the WiFi, and it always tries to dial out even if I already have a WiFi IP.

I've taken to using GPRS Monitor for activating my GPRS connections and PocketWINC for establishing WiFi. Connection Manager stinks.

[Abba Zabba]

I don't understand why you would want to use both BT and WiFi at the same time if I understand the question.

I've never had a problem with my 4150. If I know that I'm going to get on the internet and I'm in an area with WiFi then I use that if there isnt WiFi then I use the BT cell phone connection option. What's the point in trying to use both to access the internet :?:

[mobileMike]

Soon you won't have to worry about it. Just touch your devices together and they will figure out if Bluetooth or WiFi should be used.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/emergingtech/0,39020357,39149407,00.htm

[Bandito]

I don't understand why you would want to use both BT and WiFi at the same time if I understand the question.

It's not about USING both at the same time, but about both being active. For example, if I want to surf with WiFi and use BT for connecting to my cell phone to sync contacts, there's a problem as Connection Manager tries to use the BT connection. Just because BT is turned on doesn't mean that it is or should be used for networking.

[Abba Zabba]

Soon you won't have to worry about it. Just touch your devices together and they will figure out if Bluetooth or WiFi should be used.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/emergingtech/0,39020357,39149407,00.htm

This is about devices communicating with each other. Not the use of different wireless types to establish an internet connection :wink:

[Abba Zabba]

I don't understand why you would want to use both BT and WiFi at the same time if I understand the question.

It's not about USING both at the same time, but about both being active. For example, if I want to surf with WiFi and use BT for connecting to my cell phone to sync contacts, there's a problem as Connection Manager tries to use the BT connection. Just because BT is turned on doesn't mean that it is or should be used for networking.

Good point I've never tried to do that at the same time. But you could always just cancel the connection when BT tries to connect.

[JonnoB]

I don't understand why you would want to use both BT and WiFi at the same time if I understand the question.


You have to leave BT on if you want to use it for things other than network access. What if I want to use a BT GPS device and surf via WiFi?

My problem is more to do with the connection manager overall. I connect through several different WiFi APs. Work, home, and abroad without making manual changes. Let's take a simple example. I have an IMAP server at work and at my ISP I check regularly.

At home, to get to the IMAP server at work, I must connect via VPN. Once connected via VPN, I can no longer access the web because the VPN connection does not also include a proxy. To make the Inbox connect via VPN, I tell connection manager that the VPN is a 'Work' connection and tell Inbox that the work IMAP account uses a 'Work' connection. When at home, checking work IMAP, the VPN auto-dials and connects... I just can't browse the web during that time. I have my internet set to 'ISP' otherwise the auto-dial to VPN would not happen.

At work, I set the AP to work setting because there is no need for VPN. In fact, VPN is not accessible inside the firewall so it would not work anyway. There is also no proxy server. I cannot tell connection manager however that the work connection connects to the internet. The option to select that connection goes to the internet does not stay enabled! So, when in the office, I can check email, but still cannot connect to the internet. If I set both work and internet to 'work' connections, I can browse the internet in the office, but as soon as I get home, I can no longer dial the VPN server! The VPN server can only be dialed while my internet connection is set to the ISP.

To add complications... to use Activesink or RAS, I must have both connections set to 'Work' otherwise it will not work. Of course, as soon as I do that, I can either not browse the web at the office, or cannot dial via VPN and check work email while at home.

Bottom line, the connection manager in its attempt to automate things does EXACTLY the opposite and makes every single configuration 100% manual and must be changed whenever I change venues. This is not intelligent at all.

[lonesniper]

Didn't Ed write about this problem last Friday??
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/index.php?action=expand,26238&amp;sid=8c8818106b8b9761f1b18b35213c6da6

[djdj]

Seems to me that MS missed the boat on this one....

The connection manager should let you set priorities for different connections... i.e., highest priority is a WiFi connection, next is ActiveSync, next is Bluetooth. And keeping VPN connections separate, not tied to any particular Internet connection method.

Sad thing is in WM 2003 it is harder to configure all of this stuff than it used to be. Supposed to be easier, but ends up being much harder than before.

[Abba Zabba]

I don't understand why you would want to use both BT and WiFi at the same time if I understand the question.


What if I want to use a BT GPS device and surf via WiFi?
What I don't understand is everyone is coming up with scenarios like the above when in actuality how many times would you use it in this case?

[Abba Zabba]

Seems to me that MS missed the boat on this one....

The connection manager should let you set priorities for different connections... i.e., highest priority is a WiFi connection, next is ActiveSync, next is Bluetooth. And keeping VPN connections separate, not tied to any particular Internet connection method.

Sad thing is in WM 2003 it is harder to configure all of this stuff than it used to be. Supposed to be easier, but ends up being much harder than before.

I agree. It use to be alot easier in the last version. But what we all have to realize is that most people will not use it the same way I figure power users that browse these forums do. All in all i agree connection manager needs and overhaul. But for what its worth it does it's job 0X

[Dave Potter]

Wow, I have never had issues like this in my 4150. When I want to use my T610 for a BT modem, I turn the BT on. When I want to use my WiFi network at home or office, I turn the WiFi radio on. When I'm not using either, I turn them off. But I have had them both on during several occassions and have never had an issues.


Same for me on my 4150. I switch between using my Nokia 6310i as a BT modem and using WiFi all the time and have no problems. I have also used both BT and WiFi at the same time without any issues.

I guess your just lucky Jason! :lol:

[JonnoB]

I don't understand why you would want to use both BT and WiFi at the same time if I understand the question.


What if I want to use a BT GPS device and surf via WiFi?
What I don't understand is everyone is coming up with scenarios like the above when in actuality how many times would you use it in this case?

Sadly, too many people make assumptions about how others use their devices. We should not be limited by one person's imagination. There are lots of uses for BT other than network access or GPS. Heck, what if I wanted to trade a business card with someone via BT while at my WiFi hotspot? Even if not frequent, it is a MAJOR pain to have to enable/disable hardware to do something that is supposed to be simple. It is like saying.. I know you don't toast bread very often, but if you do, make sure you turn off all your televisions in your house.

[Abba Zabba]

Sadly, too many people make assumptions about how others use their devices. We should not be limited by one person's imagination. There are lots of uses for BT other than network access or GPS. Heck, what if I wanted to trade a business card with someone via BT while at my WiFi hotspot? Even if not frequent, it is a MAJOR pain to have to enable/disable hardware to do something that is supposed to be simple. It is like saying.. I know you don't toast bread very often, but if you do, make sure you turn off all your televisions in your house.

All I was saying is when would you be using GPS at the same time using wifi to surf :?: Just trying to be a wee bit realistic. End of discussion for me :roll:

[thunderck]

Maybe a Hard reset and then install the connection manager next and try and get just the wireless functions to work first, if you can :wink: (I know you got the skills :D ), and then install other apps you use. I had to do this with my 2215 and found that vxsniffer did not work well with pocket winc. [/i]

[thunderck]

Can someone tell me why there are no connection profiles? :evil:

[JonnoB]

Can someone tell me why there are no connection profiles? :evil:

There are... 'Work' and the 'Internet' as if they are always seperate and the only ones you would ever need.

[thunderck]

well that is my point you cannot control Work and Internet sooooo therefore they are not real profiles. but i do hear the sarcasm.

[zapp]

I've not had a situation where BT and WiFi would conflict, but rather ActiveSync and WiFi. If I have WiFi active, and connect w/ my cradle, the wifi connection apparently drops and the AS one takes over. This wouldn't be that big of a deal, unless you have connection-maintaining processes running like an instant messenger, or you're downloading something. It even reassigns you a new IP.


I think we can all agree it could have been done better. It would be nice if each connectivity device could be turned on and off, and have its own IP, and you could have various network profiles which you could map to whichever connectivity method you wanted.

[Bandito]

Even if not frequent, it is a MAJOR pain to have to enable/disable hardware to do something that is supposed to be simple. It is like saying.. I know you don't toast bread very often, but if you do, make sure you turn off all your televisions in your house.

Well put!

[gorkon280]

I am going to try this when I get home....fire up wifi and MSN messenger. While this is up, fire up BT and do a sync with my mac and missing sync.. During the sync. I will try to surf PPC Thoughts and post in this thread while syncing over BT. I'll try this WITH the Applescript hack to share the Airport Extreme card and with out it and see if I have any issues browsing the web. I DO agree that the whole BT mess and connection manager mess are two BIG ones with me.

One way I deal with it...everything's internet and I handle everything as automatically as I can. I don't ever mess with connection manager settings and I seem to not have issues. WiFi, the way it works, seems to handle moving from one network to another with aplomb. No need to make a different setting uner the work profile. Same thing for dialups. Same with BT. Bluetooth manager just handles all the connection stuff for me. I never have used the work profile even when connecting via wifi at work.

Regarding the VPN thing, VPN's should just create a tunnel. They do. The problem is everything must go thru the tunnel even if your wifi is already connected to a AP that can get to the internet. VPN's need to change such that you can redirect certain ports only to the VPN while say port 80 is going over the regular internet. This may be neigh impossible without some rebuilding of the stack or reinvention of VPN. One other way to get around this is to use 2 WiFi cards. One for connection to internet and one for the VPN. Have no idea if it would work, but it would be worth trying if your desparate

[JonnoB]

Regarding the VPN thing, VPN's should just create a tunnel. They do. The problem is everything must go thru the tunnel even if your wifi is already connected to a AP that can get to the internet. VPN's need to change such that you can redirect certain ports only to the VPN while say port 80 is going over the regular internet. This may be neigh impossible without some rebuilding of the stack or reinvention of VPN. One other way to get around this is to use 2 WiFi cards. One for connection to internet and one for the VPN. Have no idea if it would work, but it would be worth trying if your desparate

On the desktop (WinXP) you can do this just by setting the IP protocol of the VPN connection to not use the gateway for internet access. Simple as unchecking one option. Basically, for internet connections, it uses your existing conneciton, for intranet connections, it goes through the tunnel.

[brianchris]

I am sorry, but I have to agree with all here who blame Connection Manager. Ughhh, its horrible :pukeface: I'm a Network admin by trade, and because Connection Manager is so bad, I desperately would like to set up (and iniate) my connections manually, but we're not even given that option. Internet and Work? Who cares?.........where's the disctinction? Who's head do I have to crawl into to understand Connection Manager? Honestly, Connection Manager is the single worst thing about the otherwise excellent PPC OS. AT THE VERY LEAST, give us the option to let Connection Manager try and "Manager our Connections" for us, or let us do it manually.

With all that said, I seem to have stumbled into a fairly stable implementaion of WiFi, BT, etc., where it uses WiFi first (if availible), then BT, etc. etc. HOWEVER, the point is it took me a couple MONTHS of fumbling around, and, if my device got hard reset, I probably couldn't get back to the current configuration if my life depnded on it. Am I a bad network admin? Or is Connection Manager too esoteric and poorly implemented? The jurry may still be out..... :roll:

[Brad Adrian]

One thing that helps me manage these kinds of connection problems is that I always use the Boingo sniffer to connect to wireless networks. It involves a couple of extra screen taps, but it keeps things working correctly.

[Jason Dunn]

I guess I didn't explain this well enough. ;-)

On my 4150, I have it configured to use both WiFi and Bluetooth. By default, I leave both WiFi and BT radios turned off on my device to save battery power. When I turned on the WiFi radio, my expectation is that it would connect - yet after several minutes, it did not. When I looked in the Connection Manager, it was set to connect using Blueooth.

So my point is that if WiFi is turned on, the device should sense that and dynamically change the Connection Manager so that the Pocket Inbox will know to use the live WiFi connection, instead of bombing out looking for a BT connection that isn't turned on. That's just bad design.

Now do you see the problem? :wink:

[intastella]

Connection manager seems to cause more problems than it solves.

I use both wi-fi (either at home or out and about) and GPRS via BT all day long. Things rarely go smoothly when I go from one to the other, and more often than not, I have to go into my network connections and manually tell it how to connect.

The whole work/internet thing doesn't make any sense to me either and as there is no apparent logic to the setup, it's largely a case of trial and error to get things working. I've tried time and time again, and I soon as I get two networking components working, a third will suddenly stop (activesync over wifi for example).

It's a mess and people have been complaining about it (and activesync)for years. How much longer do we have to wait berfore these two very important elements are put right?

:|

intastella

[ctmagnus]

I personally have zero issues with connections. If Wi-Fi is active, everything goes through that without tring to fire up Bluetooth. If Bluetooth is active, everything goes through that; If I'm connected to the BT passthrough on the PC everything goes through the BT network connection and if I'm connected to the BT "DUN" connection, eveything goes through that. Nothing has ever tried to connect to an inactive connection when another one is active.

The only issue I have is, every once in a while I'll try to initiate a GPRS connection without BT active. :oops:

That and the fact that my iPaq usually tries to turn itself on every once in a while after I turn it off. :evil:

[Dave Potter]

The only issue I have is, every once in a while I'll try to initiate a GPRS connection without BT active. :oops:


Hehe - yeah. I think we've all done that.

[brianchris]

I guess I didn't explain this well enough. ;-)

On my 4150, I have it configured to use both WiFi and Bluetooth. By default, I leave both WiFi and BT radios turned off on my device to save battery power. When I turned on the WiFi radio, my expectation is that it would connect - yet after several minutes, it did not. When I looked in the Connection Manager, it was set to connect using Blueooth.

So my point is that if WiFi is turned on, the device should sense that and dynamically change the Connection Manager so that the Pocket Inbox will know to use the live WiFi connection, instead of bombing out looking for a BT connection that isn't turned on. That's just bad design.

Now do you see the problem? :wink:

Your problem is 1st: with the WiFi "zero config" in WM2003 not finding/switching to wireless networks that have already been configured within it fast enough or ever (even though you're well within range of them), and 2nd: with Connection Manager not realizing that, becuase WiFi is on, it shouldn't even attempt BT, AP associations or not, correct?

Same problems here, although my (and others) previous trashing of Connection Manager in this thread, while perhaps slightly off topic, are still valid (unfortunetly).

[Jason Dunn]

Your problem is 1st: with the WiFi "zero config" in WM2003 not finding/switching to wireless networks that have already been configured within it fast enough or ever (even though you're well within range of them), and 2nd: with Connection Manager not realizing that, becuase WiFi is on, it shouldn't even attempt BT, AP associations or not, correct?

Yes, that's exactly the problem. This is with a network that's already been configured and should normally connect in a few seconds and just work - now it's completely broken. :?

Same problems here, although my (and others) previous trashing of Connection Manager in this thread, while perhaps slightly off topic, are still valid (unfortunetly).

I'd never stop anyone from complaining about Connection Manager - it's not my favourite app either. ;-)

[JonnoB]

There are hundreds of areas where Microsoft can improve the OS. This, we know is just one of the many.

If however, the assumptions that Windows Mobile devices will become ever more connected are valid - then in a multi-wireless world, this has to bubble to near the top in terms of priority for 'must fix.' There are just too many people with problems on the current implementation for it to be ignored and still be successful with the mobile wireless efforts.

[gorkon280]

Regarding the VPN thing, VPN's should just create a tunnel. They do. The problem is everything must go thru the tunnel even if your wifi is already connected to a AP that can get to the internet. VPN's need to change such that you can redirect certain ports only to the VPN while say port 80 is going over the regular internet. This may be neigh impossible without some rebuilding of the stack or reinvention of VPN. One other way to get around this is to use 2 WiFi cards. One for connection to internet and one for the VPN. Have no idea if it would work, but it would be worth trying if your desparate

On the desktop (WinXP) you can do this just by setting the IP protocol of the VPN connection to not use the gateway for internet access. Simple as unchecking one option. Basically, for internet connections, it uses your existing conneciton, for intranet connections, it goes through the tunnel.

I guess you can't do this on PPC? Sorry...never head to setup a VPN connection on a PPC yet. I'll have to check the VPN conifg on our machine because I don't remember seeing that specific option.

Connection Manager does very much suck!

[brianchris]

Your problem is 1st: with the WiFi "zero config" in WM2003 not finding/switching to wireless networks that have already been configured within it fast enough or ever (even though you're well within range of them), and 2nd: with Connection Manager not realizing that, becuase WiFi is on, it shouldn't even attempt BT, AP associations or not, correct?

Yes, that's exactly the problem. This is with a network that's already been configured and should normally connect in a few seconds and just work - now it's completely broken. :?

I have to admit, I'd never before thought of your problem / suggestion as summarized as issue #2 above (default, or better, configurable prefered connections methods). I must admit, Connection Manager has a tough time just establishing connections (as has already been discussed in this thread), and therefore expecting it (in its current form) to be aware of prefered connection methods may be unrealistic :cry:

HOWEVER, I think it is an amazing idea that at least you (among others) have propsed in this thread (configuring prefered connection methods based on radio states), and this should definetely be included in future versions of the PPC OS. Ideally, this (and a complete overhaul of connection manager) are already included in WM2003SE, but there's no way for us to know.......unless someone here (not under NDA) can shed some light on the subject 8)

[gorkon280]

I guess I didn't explain this well enough. ;-)

On my 4150, I have it configured to use both WiFi and Bluetooth. By default, I leave both WiFi and BT radios turned off on my device to save battery power. When I turned on the WiFi radio, my expectation is that it would connect - yet after several minutes, it did not. When I looked in the Connection Manager, it was set to connect using Blueooth.

So my point is that if WiFi is turned on, the device should sense that and dynamically change the Connection Manager so that the Pocket Inbox will know to use the live WiFi connection, instead of bombing out looking for a BT connection that isn't turned on. That's just bad design.

Now do you see the problem? :wink:

Did you check the WiFi network browser? Maybe you have a intefering AP from a neighbor. Used to happen to me all of the time....until I upgraded my AP and raised the height of the AP.....now I still seee it, but it's less of a problem. It also helps to check to only connect to never connect to nonpreferred networks.

[gorkon280]

I have to admit, I'd never before thought of your problem / suggestion as summarized as issue #2 above (default, or better, configurable prefered connections methods). I must admit, Connection Manager has a tough time just establishing connections (as has already been discussed in this thread), and therefore expecting it (in its current form) to be aware of prefered connection methods may be unrealistic :cry:

HOWEVER, I think it is an amazing idea that at least you (among others) have propsed in this thread (configuring prefered connection methods based on radio states), and this should definetely be included in future versions of the PPC OS. Ideally, this (and a complete overhaul of connection manager) are already included in WM2003SE, but there's no way for us to know.......unless someone here (not under NDA) can shed some light on the subject 8)

This would not work well either. Why? The problem is...what if yuor not using BT for IP connectivity? Remember BT is a wire replacement technology. Not a wireless lan technology. BT just establishes the connection to the phone. The rest of it acts much like a regular modem call. Plus if you did this, then the thign would get all confused when someone was using a BT GPS to get the coordinates for the Open WiFi AP the are currently using! ;)

I personally have had no issues. I switch back and for between BT and WiFi with no issues. In my earlier post, I suggested checking to never connect to non-preferred connections. This setting alone caused me issues when going home as it always grabbed the first AP it saw, even if it wasn't a preferred one. It would always catch my neighbors (configured with default linksys) AP. before mine. I am not convinced that it's connection manager causing Jason's issue. I am more convinced that it could be a neighbor's AP. Granted, this depends on if he messes with Connection Manager and I have never opened it like at all on my WM2003 machine (no need to do a modem connection in last 8 months either...).

[JonnoB]

How about this one...

Has anyone ever connected to a WiFi AP and then tried to delete it? You can not get into the interface to delete it unless you are connected to an AP... and you can't delete the AP reference unless you not connected to it. So to delete an AP, you have to first connect to a different AP.

[Bandito]

With all that said, I seem to have stumbled into a fairly stable implementaion of WiFi, BT, etc., where it uses WiFi first (if availible), then BT, etc. etc. HOWEVER, the point is it took me a couple MONTHS of fumbling around, and, if my device got hard reset, I probably couldn't get back to the current configuration if my life depnded on it. Am I a bad network admin? Or is Connection Manager too esoteric and poorly implemented? The jurry may still be out..... :roll:

Think you can post some screenshots of your Connection Manager config? Screens from every possible facet of Connection Manager. Maybe we should start a new thread for this and see if we can't help each other figure out the best way to set this up.