MDC Design Mock-ups Shown at MDC

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37214' target='_blank'>http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/f...pic.php?p=37214</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/mdc-newhardware.jpg" /> <br /><br />There was a presentation at MDC entitled Windows Mobile Hardware Update, and they're showing some pretty cool designs for potential hardware. Offering a square resolution is one of the most important factors that I believe will drive hardware innovation among OEMs. Go check out the rest <a href="http://www.smartphonethoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=37214">in this thread.</a>

[guinness]

PPC's are becoming more like Palms and Palms are trying to become more like PPC's. Only problem I see with the different screen resolutions are the extra steps that it would require for devs to get their apps working right. But choices are good, the new changes to the PPC world are looking good (and better then the dissappointing POS 6.0 emu).

[wbuch]

It's an interesting idea, and I'm sure some people will like it, but for me, it's nothing that I would want. I keep my PPC in my front pants pocket, so the length is not really an issue (since it goes along my leg) but the thickness is. So if anything, the above design would be worse for me! The collapable keyboard would just make it thicker (than an equivalent one with a fixed keyboard, since it doesn't have to have the extra thickness to be able to slide back in). I would actually prefer to have a rectangular screen, and a fixed keyboard. Hopefully one of the manufacturers will offer that in VGA.

[Pat Logsdon]

Yowza! I think this is a definite step in the right direction. I think that the general consensus for the last year or two has been that the Pocket PC OS was best, while Palm had the best hardware. It looks to me like that's going to change in the next year or so. I can't wait! :D

[Felix Torres]

If the orange one gets a second hinge to rotate the display, I'm in.
Especially in full vga.
Never mind the bluetooth/wifi/second mono-screen; just give me a cellphone with full PocketPC apps in a flip-n-twist formfactor.
(and an SD slot or two)
I'll take it from there.
Ooooh, yeah; I'm gonna like '05... :D

[dean_shan]

That device looks perfect for my mother. ( I mean this in a good way. )

[omikron.sk]

Maybe a little bit silly question, but: Does Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition support also rotation of square displays? :D

[Jason Dunn]

PPC's are becoming more like Palms and Palms are trying to become more like PPC's. Only problem I see with the different screen resolutions are the extra steps that it would require for devs to get their apps working right. But choices are good, the new changes to the PPC world are looking good (and better then the dissappointing POS 6.0 emu).

True, but remember Microsoft's mantra: "Never break the platform". I have quite a bit of faith that they'll have decent solutions for developers that won't force them to re-write their app for every screen size.

[Fishie]

Maybe a little bit silly question, but: Does Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition support also rotation of square displays? :D

No but im sure COBALT does :twisted:

[Jason Dunn]

Maybe a little bit silly question, but: Does Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition support also rotation of square displays? :D

Um, yeah, that is a big silly. :lol: In what instances would you need/want to rotate a square display? I can't think of one...

[Felix Torres]

Maybe a little bit silly question, but: Does Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition support also rotation of square displays? :D

Um, yeah, that is a big silly. :lol: In what instances would you need/want to rotate a square display? I can't think of one...

:?
Uh, I can think of *two*:

One, with a square display in a rectangular case; if one prefers the buttons on the sides instead of the traditional button, a 90 degrees rotation will do the trick
Two, a 180 degree rotation will move any jog dials (or side mounted buttons) to the opposite side for use by the 12% of the population that is left-handed.

And yes, I would *expect* that since rotation is an OS function independent of the screen metrics, it *would* be supported even on square displays.

[Robert Levy]

Maybe a little bit silly question, but: Does Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition support also rotation of square displays? :D

Yup!

[omikron.sk]

Maybe a little bit silly question, but: Does Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition support also rotation of square displays? :D

Um, yeah, that is a big silly. :lol: In what instances would you need/want to rotate a square display? I can't think of one...
Perhaps if you are showing your new square-screen-PPC to your friend standing on the right (or left) from you and you don't want to move (rotate) whole device - you just press a hardware button binded to this action. :lol:

[Kris Kumar]

PPC's are becoming more like Palms and Palms are trying to become more like PPC's. Only problem I see with the different screen resolutions are the extra steps that it would require for devs to get their apps working right. But choices are good, the new changes to the PPC world are looking good (and better then the dissappointing POS 6.0 emu).

True, but remember Microsoft's mantra: "Never break the platform". I have quite a bit of faith that they'll have decent solutions for developers that won't force them to re-write their app for every screen size.

Jason is right about the Microsoft Mantra. I have WM2003 SE beta on my iPaq 2210. And most of the apps (except a couple) work when the screen is rotated. And that is without app rewrite.

What MS is doing is enabling their platform for apps that require "one of the two" layouts. "One of the Two" being the key. I see it as developers having a choice.

[omikron.sk]

Jason is right about the Microsoft Mantra. I have WM2003 SE beta on my iPaq 2210. And <u>most of the apps (except a couple) work when the screen is rotated</u>. And that is without app rewrite.
YEAH! That's what I needed to hear! Can't wait till final WM2k3SE upgrade will be released by HP.

[Steven Cedrone]

Um, yeah, that is a big silly. :lol: In what instances would you need/want to rotate a square display? I can't think of one...

Actually... :wink:

If there is no jog dial, I would rotate it so that I could flip pages in an ebook using the HW buttons...

But that's just me!

Steve

[possmann]

:drool:

Chances are that we won't see these for a couple years. Anyone wanna guess who will be the first to come out with a radical design - OK Moto aside...

Toshiba and Dell haven't been exactly "pushing the edge" with design - who wants to hold a brick?

[omikron.sk]

:drool:
Look at the title below this guy's nick. PPC INTELECTUAL. And he produces this post?

[Just kidding :wink: ]

[Mojo Jojo]

Maybe a little bit silly question, but: Does Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition support also rotation of square displays? :D

Um, yeah, that is a big silly. :lol: In what instances would you need/want to rotate a square display? I can't think of one...

Button placement in relation to the screen for left or right hand use in a landscape format.

That is (from left ot right) Buttons then screen, held with left hand stylus in right. Or Screen then Buttons where the unit is held in the right hand and stylus in the left.

[ikesler]

I LOVE THEM ALL AND WANT THEM!

[Steven Cedrone]

Look at the title below this guy's nick. PPC INTELECTUAL. And he produces this post?

[Just kidding :wink: ]

You spelled "Intellectual" wrong... :wink:

Steve

[Jason Dunn]

Uh, I can think of *two*: One, with a square display in a rectangular case; if one prefers the buttons on the sides instead of the traditional button, a 90 degrees rotation will do the trick
Two, a 180 degree rotation will move any jog dials (or side mounted buttons) to the opposite side for use by the 12% of the population that is left-handed.

Interesting. I'm left handed, but I'd never consider using a device upside down with buttons/lettering/logos being in the wrong orientation as a "solution". 8O

[huangzhinong]

You guys may forget one thing, PPC support square resolution from the beginning: When you popup the soft keyboard, the rest screen is square, so square screen won't need any special version apps. There is no fragmentation involved for this case.

[Jason Dunn]

You guys may forget one thing, PPC support square resolution from the beginning: When you popup the soft keyboard, the rest screen is square, so square screen won't need any special version apps. There is no fragmentation involved for this case.

Interesting point! That never occurred to me... :lol:

[Jimmy Dodd]

You guys may forget one thing, PPC support square resolution from the beginning: When you popup the soft keyboard, the rest screen is square, so square screen won't need any special version apps. There is no fragmentation involved for this case.

Well, no actually. Because if you have a square physical screen and then pop up the keyboard you no longer have a square virtual screen, so you have to handle that.

[huangzhinong]

You guys may forget one thing, PPC support square resolution from the beginning: When you popup the soft keyboard, the rest screen is square, so square screen won't need any special version apps. There is no fragmentation involved for this case.

Well, no actually. Because if you have a square physical screen and then pop up the keyboard you no longer have a square virtual screen, so you have to handle that.

No, if you see how most apps handle the change before and after the soft keyboard popup. All these apps handle it automatically, which means they didn't hard coded 240*240 after the keyboard popup and 240*320 before the popup, the only thing they did is receiving the dynamic windows paraments and do redrawing. The same method exists in wm2003 SE.

Programmers only need to deal with LowDPI or HiDPI now because the 96dpi is hardcoded in WM2003, but in WM2003 SE need add HiDPI flag, all others are dynamic.

[Paragon]

You guys may forget one thing, PPC support square resolution from the beginning: When you popup the soft keyboard, the rest screen is square, so square screen won't need any special version apps. There is no fragmentation involved for this case.

I don't think that is actually true. The keyboard just overlays the existing screen.

As for this device, I think it is begging to be split down the middle from top to bottom and folded in half. Imagine the incredible form factor you would have. A very small device with a large screen and keyboard.

Dave

[Jimmy Dodd]

You guys may forget one thing, PPC support square resolution from the beginning: When you popup the soft keyboard, the rest screen is square, so square screen won't need any special version apps. There is no fragmentation involved for this case.

Well, no actually. Because if you have a square physical screen and then pop up the keyboard you no longer have a square virtual screen, so you have to handle that.

No, if you see how most apps handle the change before and after the soft keyboard popup. All these apps handle it automatically, which means they didn't hard coded 240*240 after the keyboard popup and 240*320 before the popup, the only thing they did is receiving the dynamic windows paraments and do redrawing. The same method exists in wm2003 SE.

Programmers only need to deal with LowDPI or HiDPI now because the 96dpi is hardcoded in WM2003, but in WM2003 SE need add HiDPI flag, all others are dynamic.

My point is that the control layout has to be designed so that the SIP doesn't obscure anything when it pops up.

Hopefully no one has been writing their programs expecting 240x320 anyway. All programmers automatically check the client size of their window and layout the controls dynamically. :lol:

[dean_shan]

What about games? Take Age of Empires for example. How is that going to work with a square? Is the app just going to run like a widescreen movie does on a square tv?

[huangzhinong]

What about games? Take Age of Empires for example. How is that going to work with a square? Is the app just going to run like a widescreen movie does on a square tv?

You got the point. All BMP games won't work.

I can only say most apps will work in square screen without any tweaking. Pocket PC interface and BMP games need to be modified to run in square screen. MS has taken care of POcket PC interface in WM2003 SE.

[Kris Kumar]

What about games? Take Age of Empires for example. How is that going to work with a square? Is the app just going to run like a widescreen movie does on a square tv?

Good Point...

I dont think windows mobile OS on its own will resize the rect. window to square size like you are suggesting (widescreen on TV). Though, It will be good if it did that. Currently for WM2003 SE, when switching from portrait to landscape, the apps that are built for portrait mode get the vertical scroll bar when in landscape mode. And I believe the same approach will be taken for Square screens. Depending on the layout (landscape or portrait) of the rectangular app, it will get a vertical or horizontal scroll bars.

Overall, It will be upto the (game) developers to
1. say that the game works for only square or rect screens
2. provide different optimized apps for both..game developers will have to.
3. the same app will be smart enough to sense the size and orientation, and adust accordingly (Best Approach).

Like the 3rd approach, that is why MSFT had sessions and hands on lab for developers, to learn how to sense the screen resolution and orientation.

[Felix Torres]

Uh, I can think of *two*: One, with a square display in a rectangular case; if one prefers the buttons on the sides instead of the traditional button, a 90 degrees rotation will do the trick
Two, a 180 degree rotation will move any jog dials (or side mounted buttons) to the opposite side for use by the 12% of the population that is left-handed.

Interesting. I'm left handed, but I'd never consider using a device upside down with buttons/lettering/logos being in the wrong orientation as a "solution". 8O

Yet I have a lefty friend who did exactly that with his tablet pc...

[Gator5000e]

Squares are for Palms and Palms are for squares. :) I love my rectangle!

[Kacey Green]

You guys may forget one thing, PPC support square resolution from the beginning: When you popup the soft keyboard, the rest screen is square, so square screen won't need any special version apps. There is no fragmentation involved for this case.

Interesting point! That never occurred to me... :lol:

I too am left handed! He makes an execlent point about the keyboard, however if the program turns off the keyboard then you are still out of luck.

[Kacey Green]

You guys may forget one thing, PPC support square resolution from the beginning: When you popup the soft keyboard, the rest screen is square, so square screen won't need any special version apps. There is no fragmentation involved for this case.

Well, no actually. Because if you have a square physical screen and then pop up the keyboard you no longer have a square virtual screen, so you have to handle that.

No, if you see how most apps handle the change before and after the soft keyboard popup. All these apps handle it automatically, which means they didn't hard coded 240*240 after the keyboard popup and 240*320 before the popup, the only thing they did is receiving the dynamic windows paraments and do redrawing. The same method exists in wm2003 SE.

Programmers only need to deal with LowDPI or HiDPI now because the 96dpi is hardcoded in WM2003, but in WM2003 SE need add HiDPI flag, all others are dynamic.

True because my thinkoutside keyboard drivers bring up a bar about the size of thi menubar the keyboard sits on. and thi prgrams don't have any problems with the smaller than averag SIP.

The devices vith a square screen should have a bulit in thumboard if i'm reading correctly.

[ombu]

Maybe a little bit silly question, but: Does Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition support also rotation of square displays? :D
:rotfl:

... just thinking on a round display revolution ... :mrgreen:

Now serious, thanks for the option, but no way, I'll keep my 'rectangle' with rotation when needed.

Regards.

[Will T Smith]

Squares are for Palms and Palms are for squares. :) I love my rectangle!

All Squares ARE rectangles.

But I agree in principle. Wider is better ;-)

[dean_shan]

But I agree in principle. Wider is better ;-)

Wasn't that a slogan for Pontaic?

[ultraman]

What I think the prototype is also a good design for gaming plaftform. It can act as a Game Boy.

[omikron.sk]

Look at the title below this guy's nick. PPC INTELECTUAL. And he produces this post?

[Just kidding :wink: ]

You spelled "Intellectual" wrong... :wink:

Steve
Sorry, I'm Slovak and I speak English mostly ONLY in these forums. :wink:

[ppcsurfr]

Ummm...

Is it possible that there will be a Pocket PC ROM update for the Tungstens??? :takethat:

Just kidding...

Carlo

[Felix Torres]

Ummm...

Is it possible that there will be a Pocket PC ROM update for the Tungstens??? :takethat:

Just kidding...

Carlo

PocketPC, not likely, unless PALM has been getting waaayyy too cute with their hardware designs...

But WinCE 4.2 you could likely get to boot on a Strongarm Tungsten with minimal effort...
(Of course, just how minimal minimal is is left as an exercise for the student...) :twisted: