Simputer Starts Shipping in India for $220 USD [Archive]

Jason Dunn

03-28-2004, 08:00 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2004/03/26/india_sells_inexpensive_handheld_computers/' target='_blank'>http://www.boston.com/business/tech...held_computers/</a><br /><br /></div>"A cheap handheld computer, designed by Indian scientists for use by the poor, went on sale Friday for $220 after a delay of nearly three years. Simputer's software was developed by volunteers, to keep development costs low, said Swami Manohar, chief executive of Picopeta Simputers, at the model's launch. Picopeta Simputers and Encore Software are the two companies licensed to make the devices.<br /><br />The launch of the Simputer was delayed due to a lack of investment and a poor response to the concept from large-scale distributors, Manohar said. However, the government-owned Bharat Electronics agreed to manufacture the Simputer, which was developed in 2001 by scientists at the Bangalore-based Institute of Science in response to low levels of computer use in India. The Simputer is available in Bangalore and will be available across India by April 1, he said. Picopeta hopes to sell 50,000 units in the fiscal year ending March 2005, Manohar said."<br /><br />I'm no economist, so perhap's there's an angle I'm missing here, but are PDAs really a "need" that people in developing countries have, especially when they cost a year's salary to buy? This also continues to disprove the myth that Linux-based PDAs are cheaper.

entropy1980

03-28-2004, 08:31 PM

I'm no economist, so perhap's there's an angle I'm missing here, but are PDAs really a "need" that people in developing countries have, especially when they cost a year's salary to buy? This also continues to disprove the myth that Linux-based PDAs are cheaper.
My understanding was it to act as a "full computer" and replace that not just be a PDA...whether it could/can is a different question but I believe that was the goal.

backpackerx

03-28-2004, 08:56 PM

I read this earlier too. This has got to be one of the dumbest ideas I've seen in a while. If you only make $220 a year do you really have that much stuff to keep track of that you would need a PDA?

Also, couldn't a $70 Palm Zire do the job just as well?

manywhere

03-28-2004, 09:13 PM

This also continues to disprove the myth that Linux-based PDAs are cheaper.
Isn't "the myth of Linux-based PDAs being cheaper" a myth itself :?: Now, there's a brain twister for y'all! :lol:

What seems to be the cost-factor here is the hardware to run the stuff. (Now, what's the price for a StrongARM processor again?)
Also seems like the Simputer has got some nice features such as a USB connector, speaker and microphone jacks, a smartcard connector (what's that, btw?) and a built-in phone jack. 8O
Maybe the cost of including those features are the reason for the relatively high price?

suhit

03-28-2004, 09:19 PM

It looks like this - http://www.amidasimputer.com/ - is the official site of the launch.

Suhit

Pat Logsdon

03-28-2004, 09:25 PM

I think the point of the device is to get technology in the hands of more Indians, so they can "jump start" their interest in it, get more people educated, produce more programmers, etc. That in turn will help the Indian economy, and increase the quality of life for a greater percentage of the Indian population.

When you consider that a basic desktop costs $450, and this costs half of that, I don't think it seems so odd. Those that can't afford a desktop at least have this as an alternative.

Pat Logsdon

03-28-2004, 09:28 PM

Looks like it also includes a built-in motion sensor (http://www.amidasimputer.com/tour/stop6.php):

Amida is the world's first and only computer that responds to your gestures - eg. you can turn the pages of an e-book with a flick of your wrist, and can close a program by pulling Amida towards you!

8)

Zack Mahdavi

03-28-2004, 09:35 PM

suhit

03-28-2004, 10:19 PM

Yeah, it's absolutely supposed to act a full-size computer, not as a PDA. However, they're marketing this to the poor in India. I'm not sure if the poor people in India will be able to afford a $200 computer, unless of course their bosses buy it for them.

I'm Indian myself, and I think it's pretty cool that the country is trying to get technology to the masses. It only means for a better country in the long run.
Exactly, and it is the first completely home grown device of its kind, I am sure it will get better if there is another iteration. Plus, I think the goal may also be for multiple people to pool their resources and buy one. It does have a nice featureset.

Suhit

Aerestis

03-28-2004, 10:41 PM

That whole linux being cheaper thing... Nothing is cheaper exactly, things can just be sold for more affordable prices if the demand is there and it's necessary to get your product in as many peoples hands as possible. Well, people would be saying "Windows would be cheaper on pda's!" if linux had been on it first. They would say it because microsoft has a large team of developers who can generate higher quality products faster, or something to that effect.

This is a pretty cool device. I have a friend who regularly goes to developing countries with solar panels or wind energy models, basically saying "Do this before you do anything else." So she encourages them to dump their current energy gathering methods in hopes of a cleaner, healthier country. I think this is a similar step. You can use this electronic device that can save thousands of sheets of paper and the energy used to create the paper, it's really logical. Sure, there is a downfall to the manufacturing of a pda, but not as much as the waste product and destruction of land that new and recycled paper causes.

My point is that I like the direction that this technology could take us and those people.

Zack Mahdavi

03-28-2004, 11:04 PM

That whole linux being cheaper thing... Nothing is cheaper exactly, things can just be sold for more affordable prices if the demand is there and it's necessary to get your product in as many peoples hands as possible. Well, people would be saying "Windows would be cheaper on pda's!" if linux had been on it first. They would say it because microsoft has a large team of developers who can generate higher quality products faster, or something to that effect.

I disagree. Linux is an open source operating system, which means it can be licensed for free. Microsoft charges (I don't know exactly how much) a fair share for companies to license its OS. Sure, Microsoft may have a large team of developers who develop code, but that means only one company (and rants of its consumers) controls the road map of the operating system.

Linux is open source... so anyone can open up the source code, modify it, add features to it, etc. Landscape mode would have probably been available much earlier and ActiveSync troubles would have fixed a long time ago if Windows was an Open Source operating system. You have to rememeber that the user base of a product (even considering that only a small percentage are developers) is still much larger than a development team. That's why Linux has evolved so quickly in just 10 years.

If you can't tell, I love Linux and the Open Source concept in general. :)

enemy2k2

03-28-2004, 11:06 PM

This is just an idiotic idea, and wrong on so many levels. Any way, it reminds me of a satirical web article I read once titled something like '.NET Saves Boy From Well!'

As for Linux PDAs being cheaper, you guys sure like to point out the winners here. Fact of the matter is becauses of Linux' open nature any idiot can whip up a 'Linux PDA' and it would probably make front page news here. I got my own I'm putting together from PPCs that people from this site broke and discarded in order to justify buying the newest one three months later. I'll flash me some Linux on it and sell it for about 10K, any takers? It will have dual CPUs, dual screens, and dual controls - the downside is it will be twice as thick as the average unit (no it's not just two units attached with a hinge - there's some magical crap done to it to make it special).

When the newest Sharp model comes out that would be a much better comparison. But if price is important (and reliable alarms) then I guess it's just best to stick to Palm.

phillypocket

03-29-2004, 12:36 AM

I just looked at the website to learn more about the motion sensor tech. Now the image is forming in my mind of flicking it like a (mercury)thermometer trying to get an app to close. I also hope it's not quite as smooth as my ipaq. :wink: Or they have equally inexpensive breakage insurance.

On a more serious note, I wonder how convenient it would be to zoom in and out by moving the pda back and forth, as your eyes would have to refocus every time. Same thing for flicking to turn a page. I think the refocusing would be very distracting.

Darren Behan

03-29-2004, 02:25 AM

A brand new iPaq 1945 does most things you'd want from a regular PC in living color, fits in your pocket and costs only $60 more. I think bringing technology to the massed is a great idea, I just can't see how this gets you there.

db

jlp

03-29-2004, 03:16 AM

I read about it a while ago.

You have to understand a few things about their concept about this device.

a) this is not an individual device, it's planned to be shared amongst farmers and such in a village. Something like the very first phones in occident over a century ago. I'm sure these were quite expensive then and only the richest people could afford one or you'd find one at the local harware/grocery store (The Little House on The Prairie, anyone?!).
b) the device is based on icons and images, geared towards unlearned people (so a simple Palm/PPC could NOT do the trick)
c) as someone reported it's equipped with a phone line jack as to be able to tap into online databases, etc.

Not older than a century ago too, donkeys and the like were also shared amongst 2-3 families in rural places, at least here, probably elsewhere too.

JustinGTP

03-29-2004, 03:46 AM

If I were a poor Indian or Asian person, $220 would be a lot of money to spend on necessities. Since when was a computer a necessity that people needed to buy, especially if they aren't really financially sound?

And the comment about the Palm Zire 71 - good recommendation. They built the Simputer to be cheap, but it is not really that cheap. Cheap is the Zire. All in all, I don't really see what they are trying to do here. :?

theone3

03-29-2004, 04:20 AM

The simputer may be real, but it's still a joke.

April 1st release? Hah. :lol:

Jon Westfall

03-29-2004, 04:46 AM

When I saw this post this morning, i thought it was sinputer, which made me instantly think that the porn industry had really penetrated in asian markets...

but aside, I think the motion sensor is the best part of this device. I recently bought a new krusell case that has a plastic cover over the PDA's screen, and while it gives great protection, its bad for stylus entry - and most of my screen taps could be done with a simple gesture. Perhaps one day.

And on the whole Indians paying for it vs. paying for food. Obviously its not going to be purchased by starving people, but look at how many people in the US live paycheck to paycheck and something like this could really help them get ahead technologically, and (while stretching budget) be in budget to purchase. For now, their stuck with ebay...

and Cheap isn't the word to describe the Zire... Junk is the more appropriate term.

rock

03-29-2004, 05:52 AM

I couldn't find the specs anywhere. anyone have a link directly to the specs?

jlp

03-29-2004, 05:54 AM

Honda_Civic_Si & dadarkmcse &al, read my post about the Simputer intended target and purpose; NO a Zire couldn't be used instead!!

rock

03-29-2004, 05:59 AM

http://www.amidasimputer.com/models/

Found them.......................unfortunately.

$480 US for that POS with terrible specs and no compatability?

This is a sick joke.

sripathi

03-29-2004, 07:44 AM

Here is link to specs: http://amidasimputer.com/specs/

Check the features - it has 2 USB, 1 serial port. Also it has built in smart card reader. You can finally use those credit card with smart chips to store your passwords.

Steven Cedrone

03-29-2004, 02:30 PM

IIRC, this looks nothing like it originally did (when they first started marketing the idea). Is this supposed to be a phone as well?

Steve

Zack Mahdavi

03-29-2004, 05:02 PM

IIRC, this looks nothing like it originally did (when they first started marketing the idea). Is this supposed to be a phone as well?

I don't think so... I think it allows for internet connectivity to your standard landline phone. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it had a built in phone to connect to the country's huge cellular network. Gee, I've never seen GSM cell phone service as cheap as it is in India.

Tari Akpodiete

03-29-2004, 10:02 PM

Jason Dunn

03-29-2004, 10:59 PM

a) this is not an individual device, it's planned to be shared amongst farmers and such in a village. Something like the very first phones in occident over a century ago. I'm sure these were quite expensive then and only the richest people could afford one or you'd find one at the local harware/grocery store (The Little House on The Prairie, anyone?!).

Interesting...I hadn't though of it in this way. When it's explained in this manner, it sounds more feasible.

Zack Mahdavi

03-30-2004, 12:43 AM

Actually, it's important to remember that India is not just a "third world country". It's a developing nation - big time. It's very important not to make assumptions based on western values or out-dated notions.

Yes, there is a huge, huge number of their people who are extremely poor and who live in conditions that we would not like, but there is a growing middle class, a very large one, that is cosmopolitan and well-educated by any standard in the world. You'd be surprised.

If you've been following the news over the last year or so, you'd know that there is a real reason why outsourced jobs are going there. It's not just a matter of techno-labour being cheaper there, but also that labour being able to do the job competently and well.

Check out this page - http://www.education.nic.in/htmlweb/higedu.htm - for some stats. Are any of you familiar with the world-famous Indian Institute of Technology? Basically, it is the MIT of that hemisphere and well regarded and respected by its American peers.

Oh, and check out the gallery - http://amidasimputer.com/gallery/ - to see the type of people shown using this device. Looks like middle-class individual city folk for the most part. From some of the surroundings, you wouldn't know it wasn't some western metropolis.

Yes, I'm very much familiar of all of that (I'm Indian myself). However, it's only the cities that are like that. Once you leave the cities, you'll be in the villages.. and they are nothing like what you think. Maybe 60% plus live in a poverish level in India. It's changing rapidly, but just like in any country, there's the prosperous areas and the poverish areas.

India is just more poverish than prosperous. That's a fact.

If you want to see prosperous, you should check out some of the pictures of Infosys (the number 2 indian software giant) when I visited last Christmas. Here's a link to the pictures on my site. http://www.zmweb.com/pics/view.php?id=590&GroupID=21

Jason Dunn

03-30-2004, 12:47 AM

Actually, it's important to remember that India is not just a "third world country"...but there is a growing middle class, a very large one, that is cosmopolitan and well-educated by any standard in the world. You'd be surprised.

Sure, absolutely - I don't think anyone here would dispute that. But in all the press coverage I've read, this device is aimed at the poor, isn't it? If a "real" computer is about $450 USD, wouldn't the middle class buy one of those?

Are any of you familiar with the world-famous Indian Institute of Technology? Basically, it is the MIT of that hemisphere and well regarded and respected by its American peers.

But wouldn't people going to those schools have access to real computers? And the simputer is based on an iconic interface designed for people who are illiterate - so do you really think it's aimed at the educated?

I just don't understand the relevance of what you're saying here.

Tari Akpodiete

03-30-2004, 02:28 AM

If one looks at the website, rather than reads news articles that seem recycled from other articles from 2001, it doesn't really appear that the device is targetted at groups of illiterate farmers. Certainly not from the pictures in the gallery, or what's written on their site. Things like sending email in one's own handwriting, listening to mp3s, watching video, arranging business appointments, science lessons for kids. The site information looks and reads exactly like the site promo stuff for any other kind of handheld. I did read one article on the BBC site (where I found a bunch of articles from 2001 on the topic) that said "rural", but rural doesn't mean illiterate necessarily. It is nice to say that it is for poor people, but the reality of the price points (220, 276 443) on the different models and the way they are marketing it sure doesn't make it seem like they really want to sell it to that market. Maybe if the government buys a lot of them and distributes them on a subsized basis, then they might actually get to the poorer people in rural areas.

jlp

03-30-2004, 10:47 PM

There are now 2 licensees of the Simputer.

It's very well possible that PicoPeta is targeting their (high end) devices at individual metropolitan users.

However, today, the device developer, Simputer Trust, still says on their site (http://www.simputer.org/simputer/about/):

It has a special role in the third world because it ensures that illiteracy is no longer a barrier to handling a computer.

The key to bridging the digital divide is to have shared devices that permit truly simple and natural user interfaces based on sight, touch and audio.

[...]

The projected cost of the Simputer is about Rs 9000 at large volumes. But even this is beyond the means of most citizens. The Smart Card feature that the Simputer provides enables the Simputer to be shared by a community.

A local community such as the village panchayat, the village school, a kiosk, a village postman, or even a shopkeeper should be able to loan the device to individuals for some length of time and then pass it on to others in the community. The Simputer, through its Smart Card feature allows for personal information management at the individual level for an unlimited number of users.

The impact of this feature coupled with the rich connectivity of the Simputer can be dramatic. Applications in diverse sectors such as micro banking, large data collection, agricultural information and as a school laboratory is now made possible at an affordable price.
[...]

Encore Software, the second licensee, uses the same words still today: (http://www.ncoretech.com/simputer/index.html)
The Simputer is targeted as a shared computing device for a local community of users. A local community such as the village panchayat or the village school, or a kiosk, or even a shopkeeper should be able to give this device out to individuals for a specific period of time and then pass it on to others in the community. This requires the device to be personalized for individual use on a changing basis. The SmartCard is again the basic method by which this device can be personalized. A user's individual profile can be stored on a SmartCard, which he can carry around with him. Once inserted into the SmartCard Interface, the Simputer will read the profile from the SmartCard and also update changes if any, during the current transaction cycle.[...]

Emphasis added.

.

jlp

03-30-2004, 11:04 PM

This leads me to deduct that the Simputer Trust chose 2 licensees that would have different user targets.

jlp

03-31-2004, 01:49 AM

3 of the most interesting features of the PicoPeta Amida is the USB host that seems to include a full size USB port!!

Which leads to the second interesting feature: a (proprietary sized) USB flash stick that can be (apparently fully) inserted into the Amida!!

The 3rd strong point is that those storage devices (called Chikki) can contain programs that should autorun as well as their data. For example a movie player and movies, an MP3 player and music files, etc.

Their site says: "Amida chikki is a thumb-sized bundle consisting of an application program along with its data (such as music, pictures, movies) that can be quickly clipped on to an Amida. You can also use chikki to transfer data between a PC and Amida.
[...]
Insert a chikki into your computer. MOst computers (XP etc.) recognize Chikki as a drive. Drag and drop ---"

A new storage standard?! not quite as it's universal thanks to its USB port.

The dimensions are unique to the Amida as to fit in its slot.

The web page shows those cards/keys but not the connector, but the text is quite clear I'd say that it is a USB memory key.

Tari Akpodiete

03-31-2004, 05:08 AM

very interesting, jlp.

if it could take a standard USB key, then maybe individual people who are sharing a device could also have something like this

http://www.mildewhall.com/pendrive/mypendrive.html

although they won't need all the features of the one listed here. smaller versions, if bought in bulk, can cost between 5 and 10 dollars American a piece. combined with the Smart Card feature, it could be just the ticket for that particular market.

then again, there are cheaper, less portable alternatives as well - Lindows, for example. rather than have a handheld make the village rounds, it would have to be in one place and people would go to it.

and what about used handhelds? they send used glasses and used tools to poorer areas in poorer nations, so why not used handhelds?

jlp

04-01-2004, 01:27 AM

very interesting, jlp.

if it could take a standard USB key [...]

As usual as long as the manufacturer provides drivers.

Us spoiled XP users :wink: take for granted that XP already integrates drivers for most generic USB peripherals like USB keys.

The very first PPC to include USB host support, the Casio E-200 already included basic keyboard drivers in ROM and some developers wrote generic mouse and HDD drivers.

This device using a Linux OS, drivers should follow quickly.

and what about used handhelds? they send used glasses and used tools to poorer areas in poorer nations, so why not used handhelds?

Why not, but glasses and most tools are generic and can easily be adapted as/if needed. When you buy glasses in a Western country you spend time with the optometrist who fine tune his search for the best glasses for your specific vision. In poor countries they take what they get and are better off with something used, possibly scratched or broken and not quite adapted to their eyesight, but they make do; not the best but much better than nothing.

Computers are much more complicated and require very specific knowledge and equipment to work and/or adapt to or for the task, feasible but tougher to apply practically.

I think it's better for them to have something specifically developped for their specific languages, alphabets, etc. Or else they would buy/have bought much cheaper (and much less capable) electronic agandas, PDAs like Olivetti/Royal daVinci (the first at $99) Zire, etc.

That's why some engineers decided to develop something specific for their people's use.