Royal Linux PDA To Ship This Quarter

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3278017987.html">http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3278017987.html</a><br /><br />"After a false start and a delay, Royal appears ready at last to ship its Linux-based PDA, the Linea LX. The Linux LX is now expected to arrive this quarter, priced at $399. The device will be based on a 200MHz Motorola i.MX1 MDragonBall processor equipped with 64MB of SDRAM and 32MB of Flash memory, and will include Trolltech's Qtopia graphical framework and PIM suite."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2004/20040324-linuxpda.jpg" /><br /><br />It is a good thing there is a community out there willing to write software for Linux because the software on the PDA looks pretty bad. A <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2004/20040324-linuxpda-contacts.jpg">horizonal scroll bar</a> in contacts?<br /><br />$400 for the device is a bit much too. It is rather anemic looking compared to the features offered by the similarly priced iPAQ 2215, which throws in a faster processor, a compact flash slot, bluetooth and a lot more apps in ROM, saving RAM for other things. I thought Linux was supposed to make cheap devices possible? :confused totally:

[Kevin Jackson]

I thought Linux was supposed to make cheap devices possible? :confused totally:

In this case it just looks cheap. :roll:

[Stephen Beesley]

I thought Linux was supposed to make cheap devices possible? :confused totally:

In this case it just looks cheap. :roll:


Boy is that one ugly PDA and from the screenshots the UI is just about as ugly as the casing.

[lapchinj]

... I thought Linux was supposed to make cheap devices possible? :confused totally:

It does. But IMHO it hasn't come down to the PDA level yet. I like Linux a lot but I'm not willing to give up apps like AF and PI just to run around with an anemic PDA just to be able to say it runs "Linux". I have a Sharp in the draw that I hade once developed for and now only use to hack around with but I couldn't use it work with. This seems to hold true with other Linux users I know.

The OS is really good and there are plenty of tools around (especially Java and C). To bad there really is no third party community like we see on the PPC side.

As far as price is concerned maybe these guys just figured that since Linux doen't need the hefty hardware footprint that Windows requires on the desktop they could give less but they haven't yet caught up with reality that the price should reflect the hardware. Then again they wouldn't have to sell too many.

Jeff-

[thunderck]

This is what happens when, smaller company, Royal cannot take advantage of economies of scale and strategic partnerships the way HP, Dell, Toshiba, Asus, ect can. However, as much as PPC user dislike this, the selling point is Linux kernel. That being said, I cannot see this stacking up to Sharp's offers in Linux PDA world. Maybe I am missing the selling point here and if I am Royal has done a poor job advertizing. :roll:
Will not find me buying an IPO of Royal. :wink:

[OSUKid7]

If you want linux that bad, why not just get a cheap iPaq and install linux on it?

[jpaq]

"Yo Ugly.
Yo Ugly.
Yo mamma says you ugly.
U-G-L-Y. You aint got no alibi.
You Ugly."
------- Chearleaders from the movie Wildcats :lol:

It looks like a brick and the PIM applications look like they are in typewriter font.
Do you have to change the ribbon on this thing?

Plus, $399!?!?!?!? 8O

"Um, yes Alex. I'll take the Axim X3i for $318."

[Felix Torres]

I thought Linux was supposed to make cheap devices possible? :confused totally:

Uh, no...
That's not the applicable definition of free:
Remember, its "free as a bird", not "free beer"...
:devilboy:

With LINUX you are free from all the WinCE and Palm royalties and infrastructures and applications and development guidelines on what a good product should look like.
You are totally free to violate the rules and restrictions imposed by the fascist pigs at MS and PALM and Symbian. :wink:

And you are free to rack up large upfront R&D costs to create the functional equivalent of what the other guys are licensing for a fee.

With is to say, you can make the product as crappy and unappealing as you want to and still find buyers, as long as it boots up in LINUX.

Even better, it doesn't have to actually do anything *useful* to sell...
...in limited quantities, true, but it'll still sell...

(Yes, my tongue is firmly in cheek, why d'you ask?) :D

Lets face it: there is so such thing as a magic bullet.
It is possible to make crappy products with any technology.
And while MS and PALM and Symbian do charge royalties for their technology, they do have *something* meaningful to offer in return for the toll they impose on the hardware vendors.
Going with LINUX, *at this point in time* means that the vendor has to essentially reinvent the wheel and retrace all the steps followed by the
PocketPC and PALM communities over the last 10 years in figuring out why PDAs and Pocket Computers are not the same as desktop PCs.

Understanding the subtleties of the market means understanding end-user needs. And that is *hardly* the strong point of the Unix glasshouse crowd, now, is it?

I have yet to see a LINUX PDA that actually lived up to the functionality required of a PDA; at best, they are stunted mini-micro-mainframes running a set of PDA-style apps. Which isn't to say there isn't any room in this world for a pocket-sized LINUX computer (they make great, cheap network sniffers and web servers, for one thing, but they most definitely are *not* competitive with modern PDAs.
Not by 30,000-plus light years...

Just compare this one to, say, a Dell Axim or an HP 19xx...
Or a Tungsten or a Sony...

Sorry Charlie, you're a saltwater fish trying to swim in a fresh-water lake.

[CTSLICK]

...$400 for the device is a bit much too. It is rather anemic looking compared to the features offered by the similarly priced iPAQ 2215, which throws in a faster processor, a compact flash slot, bluetooth and a lot more apps in ROM, saving RAM for other things. I thought Linux was supposed to make cheap devices possible? :confused totally:

I don't even care if Linux allows cheaper devices...they at least have to compete with their PPC peers on bang for the buck. I agree with you...the price point vs hardware specs is very average at best. And if you're really hung up on getting a Linux based PDA then what is there with the Royal PDA that would cause me to NOT choose a Sharp Zaurus 5000 series? Answer: nothing. Royal should just quit on this one now.

[CTSLICK]

If you want linux that bad, why not just get a cheap iPaq and install linux on it?

Or just go on e-bay and grab a used sharp 5000 series.

[jeff]

It is a good thing there is a community out there willing to write software for Linux because the software on the PDA looks pretty bad. A horizonal scroll bar (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2004/20040324-linuxpda-contacts.jpg) in contacts?


I'd rather have a horizontal scroll bar than the Pocket PC's super useful ellipsis on the contacts page. Is my dad's e-mail address @comcast.com or @comcast.net? Who knows? And how about those awesome non-adjustable column widths in entire list of contacts? Is "Genovese, A..." Alex, Anthony, or Arlene?

Sure, this Linux PIM software looks pretty crappy, but let's not hold the Pocket PC stuff up as a paragon of usability.

[thunderck]

And while MS and PALM and Symbian do charge royalties for their technology, they do have *something* meaningful to offer in return for the toll they impose on the hardware vendors.


Maybe I should not start down this road but wo wo wo here I go...

The three companies above want to make sure hardware closely tided to their product does not make them look bad or go in a direction their software cannot handle, yet. Linux does not have these constraints. And for the record I am not saying one development type is better than the other, I really do not want to pick that fight. :ninja:

Now we are talking about two different development models. Don't get me wrong I would never buy this BUT &lt;--- and that is a big but :wink: if Linux handhelds would include some innovation (full VGA support and who knows what else) that closed companies (MS, ect) took time to adopt and as a base-line had good PIM ect (and this does not) I could see buying it. We have not seem that yet :!: Until a Linux hardware maker or an OEM (15 year old kid) programmer blows my mind with some new future I will not look twice at Linux PDAs, not-with-standing my love for Linux. :ppclove:

[Ed Hansberry]

I'd rather have a horizontal scroll bar than the Pocket PC's super useful ellipsis on the contacts page. Is my dad's e-mail address @comcast.com or @comcast.net? Who knows? And how about those awesome non-adjustable column widths in entire list of contacts? Is "Genovese, A..." Alex, Anthony, or Arlene?

Sure, this Linux PIM software looks pretty crappy, but let's not hold the Pocket PC stuff up as a paragon of usability.

On the email, who cares? Just tap it and a new message opens in inbox addressed and ready to go.

On the rest, it is a design issue. Horizontal scroll bar you have to tap-hold-drag or ellipsis in the PPC that you tap on to open the contact up. There is only so much screen real estate. I think the horiz. scroll bar is horrindous and should be banned from the Win32 API altogether, both on the PC and PPC. :lol:

[OSUKid7]

I think the horiz. scroll bar is horrindous and should be banned from the Win32 API altogether, both on the PC and PPC. :lol:
For that matter, why not ban the vertical scroll bar? They do the same thing: give you more screen space. I see no problem with either scroll bar when they are implemented in a good place. Banning scroll bars just makes it harder for programmers to do what they want.

[David Prahl]

&lt;strong bad>
"Why you lazy crap for crap!"
&lt;/strong bad>

Looks like a first-gen CE device. Someone put it out of its misery.

[jeff]

On the email, who cares? Just tap it and a new message opens in inbox addressed and ready to go.


I don't send e-mail from my Pocket PC. But I do reference addresses for my own use and to give to others.

Maybe the horizontal scroll bar doesn't work, but Microsoft's arbitrarily telling me how many characters I should be able to see and what format the names should be displayed in definitely doesn't work. Why not let the user decide how much space to give for a name? Or how about using two lines in that view instead of trying to shoehorn everything onto one?

I know this isn't the right thread for Pocket PC usuability complaining, but it seems hypocritical to harp on the design flaws of a new device when Pocket PCs have had flaws just as large since their introduction four years ago.

[gorkon280]

http://www.trolltech.com/screenshots/qtopia.html?cid=6

Look at those and tell me the interface is ugly. Oh and to make a comment regarding someone who said it's not cheaper because you have to develop all of the things PPC takes for granted they know nothing of what the linux handheld desktop is., First off there are MANY developers donating only their time and some that are paid (ie Trolltech) to work on this. The linux for handheld desktop is very mature. To see what this looks like, just look at a Zarus 5500/5600 because it runs the same thing. It's also MUCH more flexible in look as skinning is built in &lt;vent>LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON PPC!&lt;/vent>

Sorry, I just get ticked that Microsoft just seems to do the theming thing so half assed. Of course Apple isn't free of this either. People WANT (as strange as it may seem) to have mauve task bars and cutsie interfaces that would drive long time users nuts but make a new user comfortable. ANYWAY....Qtopia isn't that ugly and how you could determine that from that lousy picture is beyond me.

[Fishie]

Sharp in Japan has a Zaurus out running on a 200MHz XScale procesor with a 16 bit 3.5 inch colour screen 32mb rom and 64 mb ram that looks like a PPC and costs just under 100$.

...$400 for the device is a bit much too. It is rather anemic looking compared to the features offered by the similarly priced iPAQ 2215, which throws in a faster processor, a compact flash slot, bluetooth and a lot more apps in ROM, saving RAM for other things. I thought Linux was supposed to make cheap devices possible? :confused totally:

I don't even care if Linux allows cheaper devices...they at least have to compete with their PPC peers on bang for the buck. I agree with you...the price point vs hardware specs is very average at best. And if you're really hung up on getting a Linux based PDA then what is there with the Royal PDA that would cause me to NOT choose a Sharp Zaurus 5000 series? Answer: nothing. Royal should just quit on this one now.

[klinux]

Linux PDA but no keyboard??? They definitely lost the (very) techie market with that move.

[bjornkeizers]

Damn, that's one ugly ass device.. looks like a brick too! And 399??? The hell were they thinking?

I like Linux, but this device sucks, the os isn't ready for it, and at 399, I'll definitely pass. This looks like someone's homebrew..

[ND Bob]

My first forray into the pocket device field (not counting Compaq and IBM WinCE devices with big and bigger keyboards) was on internship. I wanted something Palm-like (I know, I know... but I was an impoverished intern, and Pocket PCs were still $500+ items at the time), but I wanted to spend as little as possible for the device. :oops:

I purchased one of Royal's el cheapo Palm wannabe organizers. It looked like a great deal at the store. Nothing but trouble once the package was opened, though. The software never worked, and sometimes crashed the computer. The organizer itself was cheaply made, and not especially functional.

The organizer was on its way back to Target before the business day was even done.

As a tech in seminary, I had to help a professor who had (without authority :evil:) purchased a similar Royal device that mucked up his notebook plenty good.

0 for 2. I wouldn't touch a Royal handheld with a ten foot stylus.

[thunderck]

, the os isn't ready for it,
Could you please elaborate on that :?: Dish network (http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3193876970.html) uses it along with many others and if you look at this (http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=7003), research firm VDC expects the only thing to shake Embedded Linux is SCO and that is doubtful. The OS I would summit to you is ready but the development community has not had enough time, only since 2001, to develope a strong app's base. Also check-out Embedded-linux (http://www.embedded-linux.org/) for all kinds of information.

[bjornkeizers]

The OS I would summit to you is ready but the development community has not had enough time, only since 2001, to develope a strong app's base. Also check-out Embedded-linux (http://www.embedded-linux.org/) for all kinds of information.

That's my point. While it does 'work' it isn't really ready for the average end user - not enough software, and I bet it isn't all that easy to use either... and with hardware like that, I honestly don't think it can cut it.

For this to work, you need top knotch hardware and a good developer community - this has neither.

[thunderck]

I wonder how many apps will be ported from the Xscale on the Sharp to this? Interesting to see if this gets good traction over the next 6-12 months.

[lapchinj]

If you want linux that bad, why not just get a cheap iPaq and install linux on it?

Hey, waddaya mean a "Cheap iPAQ"? No such animal. It's a figure of your imagination it's just that some cost less than others. :D

I installed Opie on my 3765 (I thought it was a 36xx series but I found its papers the other day) and it's great. But alas - there is no AF or PI or Sprite Backup or Resco Expl....... :cry: But it is great and a lot of fun to just hack away on it and write some Java code.

Anyway for any serious work it's still my trusty (loaded) 3850. 8)

Jeff-

[Kevin Jackson]

I installed Opie on my 3765 (I thought it was a 36xx series but I found its papers the other day) and it's great. But alas - there is no AF or PI or Sprite Backup or Resco Expl....... :cry: But it is great and a lot of fun to just hack away on it and write some Java code.

Anyway for any serious work it's still my trusty (loaded) 3850. 8)

Jeff-

That's one of the main problems with this sort of device. Linux is a great server operating system, PVR "OS" and, with some work, patience and configuration, can be a decent desktop operating system, but when it comes to the handheld market, it often becomes just a toy -- something to have fun and hack around with, but not used for "serious work."

Obviously this is not always the case, but more often than not I believe it is. Linux for PDAs is just not ready for prime-time and, especially in the "brick" Royal is trying to sell, not worth what they are asking for it.

[enemy2k2]

Anybody judging linux on the basis of this implementation is a damn moron. Royal sucks 455.

[lapchinj]

...Linux for PDAs is just not ready for prime-time and, especially in the "brick" Royal is trying to sell, not worth what they are asking for it.

Yeah, every time I look more into that Royal "brick" it seems to get cheaper and cheaper and gives Linux a bad name also.

As far as being ready for prime time I guess we'll have to wait to see if any third parties come up with some useful Linux software. But give a look at the iPAQ and MS a few years ago. Or look at the whole PPC market for that matter. It just took off and passed everyone else like a rocket.

I guess anyone wanting to get into the game has to start off at the bottom. The IBM PC, Linux, Japanese cars are only a few things that come to mind that people once said were not ready for prime time. 8O

Jeff-

[lewellyn]

Sharp in Japan has a Zaurus out running on a 200MHz XScale procesor with a 16 bit 3.5 inch colour screen 32mb rom and 64 mb ram that looks like a PPC and costs just under 100$.

Do you have a URL? The cheapest I could find on Amazon is about US$400. SHARP ザウルス SL-A300 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008BBLQ/qid=1080186636/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_10_5/250-6809193-6420213)

It seems to meet the specs you stated, but not the price. :cry:

[Mark Johnson]

I'm still hanging on to my iPaq 1910 since it seems like a waste of money to buy anything that doesn't have VGA. The screens are going to be so much better than QVGA. It's pretty sad that Sharp (and now Royal) are bring out bricks that are twice the size of the iPaq 1900's. I'd love to see linux bring some REAL competition to PPC.

[Fishie]

Sharp in Japan has a Zaurus out running on a 200MHz XScale procesor with a 16 bit 3.5 inch colour screen 32mb rom and 64 mb ram that looks like a PPC and costs just under 100$.

Do you have a URL? The cheapest I could find on Amazon is about US$400. SHARP ザウルス SL-A300 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00008BBLQ/qid=1080186636/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_10_5/250-6809193-6420213)

It seems to meet the specs you stated, but not the price. :cry:

Thats the one, in January I saw it advertised for 9990 yen and from what i hear from my friends in japan thats still its retail price.
Dont know whats up with the Amazon listing.

[Fishie]

Ah found it, the price on Amazon is the price it originaly launched at in august 2k2, with a Strongarm back then at that.

[lewellyn]

Ah found it, the price on Amazon is the price it originaly launched at in august 2k2, with a Strongarm back then at that.

You have any URLs I can purchase it online through (at ¥9990 or less, of course ;))? Unfortunately, I know no Japanese and rely on Babelfish to help me out, so I can't find it... :twak:

At the price, I think it'd be an interesting toy to add to the stable... Much more so than the Royal. (Which looks like it needs some work that it'll never get if it's anything like their other organizers...)

[Fishie]

Check BIC camera and other large electronics retailers like that I guess.