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View Full Version : Moral Question: When Companies Ship Unordered / Extra Items.


Jon Westfall
02-23-2004, 03:38 PM
Ok, I've been having a rash of odd shipping stories in the past month, and I'm curious what everyone else thinks.

Recently I ordered a GPS receiver, waited 3 weeks for the company to ship it (called a few times, was generally annoyed at the long wait) and it finally arrived on a tuesday. The following Friday, UPS dropped off another package with the exact same receiver & invoice. The invoice clearly shows I only ordered one, but now have 2.

Last week I ordered a null-modem adapter (yes, I actually needed one for the first time in 5 years) and instead of shipping me 1`adapter, they accidentally shipped me the box that THEY purchased the adapters in (which had the same barcode as the individual bags with the adapters) - so now I have 15 of them.

Now obviously, I have parts I don't need, and it raises a moral question: Should I ship them back to their owners?

The Case Against:
* I'm busy, and why should I have to spend my time correcting mistakes of others?
* It would be at my expense, probably would never even receive a thank you from the companies.
* According to the FTC (as stated in a report on Snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/supplies.htm) , companies are not required to pay for unordered merchandise, and any unordered merchandise (which I'm assuming covers extra items) can be treated as a gift.

The Case For:
* It would make me feel warm and fuzzy, while slightly annoyed that I had to send back some free, expensive stuff.

To further muck things up, about 3 years ago, a company that I ordered some bare-bones computer parts from sent me, on accident, a brand new IBM thinkpad. I was firm in my desire to send it back until they kept me on hold for 50 minutes, and when I finally got through, they had no idea what I was talking about. Finally I told them that they had shipped me the wrong parts, but were parts I could use and if they didn't mind, we could just cancel the order and the subject was closed. They quickly agreed and took a loss of $1500.

Anyone have similar experiences? Advice?

Jon.

Dave Beauvais
02-23-2004, 03:49 PM
For the GPS, they'd probably pay to have the extra unit returned. For the extra cables, they probably don't care since cables just aren't worth very much and isn't worth your or the company's time or money to ship them. If it were me, I would make an honest effort to return the GPS because it's the right thing to do in my opinion.

ChristopherTD
02-23-2004, 04:03 PM
When this has happened to me I simply asked the company what they wanted to do about it. Generally they didn't want the item(s) back, but if they did, they provided some means of doing so at their expense. I certainly wouldn't pay to ship an incorrect item back.

Jason Dunn
02-23-2004, 04:06 PM
I'd suggest sending the company an email asking them what you should do. If they do ask for you to ship them back, they should provider a courier account # - you certainly shouldn't have to pay. Your only time invested would be to fill out the courier form, which is a small price to pay for doing the right thing. :wink:

Steven Cedrone
02-23-2004, 04:06 PM
I would probably call both and ask them what they want to do. But hey, that's just me! :wink:

Steve

sublime
02-23-2004, 04:08 PM
Well, you weighed it out perfectly. Free expensive stuff vs. Warm fuzzy feeling. Whatever you feel yourself more in need of, side with that. The only thing that's "right" to do is what will make you feel better. "Right"-ness is purely subjective, as its definition has been changing for thousands of years, and opinions of it have always widely differed.

But I have a third option you'll probably like more:
Send me the GPS receiver!

You'll be doing a poor student a favour, and you'll get a more intense warm, fuzzy feeling, because I'll appreciate it more than the rich company.

Whaddaya say?

mountainfrog
02-23-2004, 06:04 PM
The only thing that's "right" to do is what will make you feel better. "Right"-ness is purely subjective,


What will make feel better is me taking your PDA. According to your definition, that would be the right thing for me to do. You cant tell me that it is wrong as "rightness" is purely subjective. It might be wrong to you but it is right to me and you surely wouldnt deny me the ability to do what is right, would you? You cant force you views of wrongness on me and deny me my right to do what is right...

that being said, I would appreciate it if you would leave your pda on your kitchen counter. I am going to do what is right to me and I will be by tonight to get it. Thanks!

ux4484
02-23-2004, 06:18 PM
On one of my replacement Axim's, Dell sent me instead of just a PDA sans battery: The whole shipping box including battery, backup battery, charger, CD, manual, and sync cable. I called them and asked them what to do with the stuff and if they wanted to me to send it back on the RMA airbill or if they wanted to send me a second return airbill label. The shipping insert only included the replacement PDA serial number and none of the other items. They were really only concerned about getting the bad PDA back and basically left it up to me whether to send them back or not. Since I had just picked up a car charger from moonlight technologies, I had no need for and extra charger (and I already had an extra battery). I sent them back.

I can see where the desire to keep the stuff would be great (especially if like me you'd gone through three Axim's before getting a keeper), but ethically it's a no-brainer.

Jason Dunn
02-23-2004, 06:22 PM
The only thing that's "right" to do is what will make you feel better. "Right"-ness is purely subjective, as its definition has been changing for thousands of years, and opinions of it have always widely differed.

Oh please... :roll: If I came over to your house and burned it to the ground because I thought it was the "right thing to do", I seriously doubt you'd agree with me. Relative truth is an inane concept that shatters in the face of reality.

Jacob
02-23-2004, 06:27 PM
I would contact them and let them know.

They should definitely pay for the shipping. I wouldn't send it back if they didn't pay for it.

sublime
02-23-2004, 07:04 PM
mountainfrog,

you surely wouldnt deny me the ability to do what is right, would you? You cant force you views of wrongness on me and deny me my right to do what is right...

Of course I would deny you the ability to do what you think is right, since I don't want to lose my ppc. Since when does having opposing views of truth result in one party forcing their views upon the other? Surely you're not denying the existence of opposing opinions, are you? And how would denying you my ppc be "forcing my views of wrongness" on you? The act of keeping my ppc in my pocket is an act of forcing my views upon you? Gimmie a break...

If I came over to your house and burned it to the ground because I thought it was the "right thing to do", I seriously doubt you'd agree with me.

Umm, isn't that arguing FOR my point? You think it's right, I think it's wrong, hence right-ness is subjective? I don't understand the strength of your argument...

If you disagree against relative truth, need we refer to examples in history to see how often truth has changed its face, even in the past 100 years? Need we refer to examples in politics in the past week? Come on, buddy :)

buckyg
02-23-2004, 07:07 PM
I never really thought much about this, because I've never received anything I didn't order. (Well, I did receive the wrong WM2003 upgrade CD but HP said to keep it.)

Yeah, I would contact the company and ask what they want done with it.

As I understand it, the FTC rule that dadarkmcse mentions in the first post is to prevent an unscrupulous company from doing something like trying to drum up revenue by shipping you a laptop you never ordered then trying to bill you for it.

sublime
02-23-2004, 07:09 PM
Understand that we're discussing issues of propriety, morality, custom, etc, and these issues are never universally true. Every country has its own rules of propriety and morality, as does every time. Appealing to morality, thus, is only an appeal to what people you agree with have decided to be "proper," and is thus, subjective and not objective.

So, do what you think is right according to who you want to appeal to. If you want to appeal to a particular society, do what most of them would do. If you want to appeal to yourself, do whatever floats your boat.

Sheesh!

Pat Logsdon
02-23-2004, 07:17 PM
I'll agree with most of the others here and say that you should call the companies and ask what they want you to do. I would NOT, however, pay for the shipping costs. That was their mistake, not yours.

As for the rest of the discussion going on here:

Surgical Snack say: He who vigorously defend relative truth probably have guilty conscience. Either that, or spends way too much time in philosophy classes.

:wink:

foldedspace
02-23-2004, 08:03 PM
I got a Lost in Space Robot in the mail one time years ago from the SciFi channel store, which I didn't order. What I should have done, was to contact the store and ask them what to do. What I did was keep it. Karma bit me in the arse, however, because about a week later, the sister of a disabled boy downstairs came looking for it! I had to admit that I already took it out of the box.

Long story shorter, I bought another one for the kid and some other Lost in Space toys to make up for it and hand delivered them. Don't do what I did...be honest.

yslee
02-23-2004, 09:55 PM
Please don't confuse moral and ethical relativism to that of a selfish attitude. To add, completely relative individual moral relativism is not possible; there has to be some common ground, else there won't be civilisation to begin with!

JonnoB
02-23-2004, 10:13 PM
IMHO, although it is the shipper's mistake, keeping it would be wrong. You should not however, feel compelled to pay for anything. Let them know what happened. If they say keep it, do so and feel good about having told them. If they send for a pick up and pay for it, send it back.

Jason Dunn
02-23-2004, 10:23 PM
So, do what you think is right according to who you want to appeal to. If you want to appeal to a particular society, do what most of them would do. If you want to appeal to yourself, do whatever floats your boat.

I've found that people who tend to believe this are either young, naive, or both. :lol:

c38b2
02-23-2004, 11:41 PM
Sure you could feel what you do is right but you had better be able to take responsability for your actions if need be. This country decides your burden of punishment on a set of edicts and social codes known as the law which everyone's own morality must conform to, or at the very least abide by. :)

sublime
02-24-2004, 12:42 AM
Please don't confuse moral and ethical relativism to that of a selfish attitude. To add, completely relative individual moral relativism is not possible; there has to be some common ground, else there won't be civilisation to begin with!

1. If you can, please differentiate them for me. And prove to me, if possible, that altruism exists, and that everything we do is NOT essentially in our self-interest. I doubt that you can, and I've had this discussion with many philosophy undergraduates before.

2. Since when have I advocated universal selfishness? I was speaking on a purely personal level, and did not suggest that the rest of the world follow my example. Doing so would be detrimental to my desires, since it would prevent me from exploiting the system and reaping its benefits...but I'm sure that telling a handful of people about it won't hurt me.

and Jason, both "young" and "naive" are relative terms ;)

ohhhh I'm sooooo naughty :twisted:

Pat Logsdon
02-24-2004, 12:54 AM
Just a suggestion, sublime:

www.ephilospher.com (http://www.ephilosopher.com/phpBB_14.html)

:wink:

Jason Dunn
02-24-2004, 12:57 AM
Just a suggestion, sublime...

Indeed - channel that energy at a more appropriate site! :way to go:

Falstaff
02-24-2004, 01:29 AM
This happened to my dad once. He has a small computer company and one time (6+ yrs ago) he was randomly shipped a $3500 21" high quality monitor from Ingram Micro. He kept e-mailing and calling for three months until his only employee then said "screw it" and opened the box. My dad has used that monitor since then :lol: I think it will depend on the size of the company. If you're dealing with a big comany like Ingram Micro, Dell, HP or another wholesaler/manufacturer, they'll probably just ignore you, smaller companies will be more inclined to care. So just wait a reasonable amount of time, No response, OFF TO eBay!

sublime
02-24-2004, 01:48 AM
I'm sorry. I think too much when I respond. I'll try to stop that from now on.

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