iPAQ 6000 Photos & Specs

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/preview_hp_ipaq_6000.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/previ...p_ipaq_6000.asp</a><br /><br /></div>Pocket PC Italia has done it again - they've managed to find some very official-looking photos and specs about the iPAQ 6000 series Pocket PC.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/ipaq6000.jpg" /> <br />Here's what the specs are according to Pocket PC Italia:<br /><br />• Windows Mobile 2003 Phone Edition OS<br />• Texas Instruments OMAP 1510 CPU<br />• 64 MB RAM / 64 MB ROM<br />• 3.5" transflective display<br />• SDIO slot<br />• GSM/GPRS, quad-band 850/900/1800/1900<br />• Bluetooth 1.1<br />• 802.11b WiFi<br />• 1800 mAH removable battery<br />• IrDA and USB<br />• Removable flip cover<br />• 11.7 cm x 7.4 cm x 1.8 cm<br />• 185 grams<br /><br />Check out the site for more photos!

[JohnJohn]

Either she has small hands, or that thing is HUGE.

[ppcitalia]

She has small hands.

Bye

Enrico

[brianchris]

Mmmmmmmmm!!!!!! :drool:

-Brian

[Pat Logsdon]

Very interesting! Looks a bit thick. It also looks like the recently posted photo (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23447&start=0) was about 95% correct, except for the horrible grafted-on keyboard.

[Jacob]

Methinks there is another model in that series with the keyboard - just like the 4xxx series.

[Anthony Caruana]

Either she has small hands, or that thing is HUGE.

It's very close to the 2210 in size. 2210 is 11.5 x 7.6 x 1.54 cm whereas the 6000 is 11.7 cm x 7.4 cm x 1.8 cm. It's definitely a little thicker and longer, but not a lot.

I was going to buy an XDA but I think I might wait a little.

Nice to see that it does not seem to have rubber grips. They're nice to hold but a PITA as they do, eventually, come off.

[JohnJohn]

I respectfully diagree. It looks like it has a larger, 5xxx screen. Since I ASSuME that, it can't be cloe to the same saze as a 22xx.

[JonnoB]

Very interesting! Looks a bit thick. It also looks like the recently posted photo (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23447&start=0) was about 95% correct, except for the horrible grafted-on keyboard.

Either that other image reflects another device with integrated thumboard or more likely, this is like the micro keyboard option for the 221x device and just slides over the bottom of the unit over the dpad.

Overall, I like the design of this unit. I hope that HP has a 6k series with a camera option. I don't want to use up my SDIO slot for peripherals.

I am glad that a flip-lid will be a part of it. Maybe HP is listening to the old Jornada community?

[ntractv]

She? Look like man hands to me. But my bone of contention is: With the development of 128MB on the iPAQ 5555 series, why are manufactrers still kicking out these new and exciting devices with only 64MB?

[Jason Dunn]

She? Look like man hands to me. But my bone of contention is: With the development of 128MB on the iPAQ 5555 series, why are manufactrers still kicking out these new and exciting devices with only 64MB?

There might very well be a 128 MB version...stay tuned!

[JohnJohn]

She: http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/preview_hp_ipaq_6000.asp

[Terry]

No mention of Blackberry wireless e-mail... :cry:

[JonnoB]

No mention of Blackberry wireless e-mail... :cry:

The Tek'N Toys site does mention that it includes RIM push support, so it looks like it will include it.

Could be a winner! I hope it has good graphics performance like the ASUS devices.

[Ed Hansberry]

All of that and still no CF slot? :cry: Am I the only one that needs a CF modem? Why can't someone make a SDIO modem????

[paris]

Its big fat and ugly and even has an external antena, no thanks. Its very close to the dimensions of the hp jornada 928 i have here besides me. Only its a few cm shoter since does not have a second lcd anyway and its a bit more fat. I would expect hp to have done better but, oh well.

[Fabulas]

I'll most definately be getting one of these. When the 5555 came out my 3970 was just too new(too me that is :lol: ) I hope I can use this on the Sprint network and what's the specs on the processor?

[arebelspy]

My thoughts, as posted on Tekguru:

Looks good to me.. only thing I don't like: 64MB RAM instead of 128MB. I'm still holding out hopes for it to have 128MB (the XDA II was rumored to only have 64 MB to begin with). Still, it looks like it could be worth upgrading to. With the known specs right now it's a tradeoff between the WiFi and flip cover (finally!) of the iPAQ 6000 versus the 128MB RAM and 640x480 camera of the XDA II.

Some deal breakers for me:
1) Size. Is it small like the 2200 series? The dimensions seem to suggest so. This is good in some ways (tiny = good, but still has 3.5" screen for browsing, very good), bad in some (no sleeve factor, like the iPAQ 3000 and 5000s use).

2) Nevo/Consumer IR. Included, or no?

3) That antenna. Ug-lee. Will it improve reception (and thus browsing speeds) significantly though?

4) Connection pins - compatible with other iPAQ accessories? 3900/5000? Or even 2000/4000?

-arebelspy

[arnage2]

absolutly freakin beautifull. Too bad nextel wont carry this oen.

[JustinGTP]

What is with that awful Adobe Photoshop Lens Flare on the corner this time? It makes it look less real. Also, the second picture is definitley a fake, the first, looks real. I also have other reasons to believe this is real.

I hope they stary pushing up the memory limits, why oh why are we stuck at 64? And why 400mhz? Why are manufacture's still producing these high end producs with the same old mediocre performance specifications??!!?

:evil:

-Justin.

[ntractv]

She: http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/preview_hp_ipaq_6000.asp

Okay, point taken. But from the initial picture post they seemed liked Man Hands to me (ala: Seinfield), but, for those who have said it looks like a brick: One on my first PDA's was the Casio 115 (which I would agree was a brick), but, even with that device as well as all others, it still fits in the palm of your hand (no pun). I am sick and tired of hearing about form factor. If this keeps up we are all going to need a hook-ear flip down swivel eyepiece to read our devices. How small do these devices have to be? For me, if it fits in my hand, who cares. We have these devices to manage our daily lives. It it doesn't fit in your shirt pocket, stick in your pants pockets, briefcase, backpack, etc.

[JonnoB]

All of that and still no CF slot? :cry: Am I the only one that needs a CF modem? Why can't someone make a SDIO modem????

Ed, I know it is against your religion, but a BT modem should work ok. I agree however, I need dual slots for memory plus IO. CF/SD is best, but I would settle for dual SD.

[dmacburry2003]

I think that someone (specifically the photoshop-wannabe in the other forum) saw this device and then tried to get as close to the actual thing as they could when they made the other *fake* 6000 with a keyboard. They were actually pretty close, and it looks a LOT nicer without the keyboard. A bit like the Axim X3... :?

Comparison of the top 6000 in the woman's hand to the 6000 in the bottom pic next to the pen:

1. On the top pic, the blue/white HP logo underneath the antenna is centered. In the bottom pic, the blue HP is moved to the right of the white square.
2. The light reflection on the black thing to the right of the antenna on the bottom pic is much too smooth; light doesn't reflect like that.
3. The outlines of the power/app buttons is very blackend on the bottom pic. It is as if someone increased the contrast of each of them.
4. The outline of the bottom 6000 (toward the top right corner) is defined by a thick gray line. It's not even smooth; looks like it was drawn in paint.
5. It would be very easy to paste and compile in the bottom pic; the backround is pure white. And what kind of pen is that? It looks like a cheap plastic piece of junk I could get from the Dollar Store.
6. The top 6000 has a VERY RICH plastic texture to it. The lighting looks slightly correct but since the plastic is so very, very rich it could very well just be a molded casing.
7. In the top pic, the reflection on the screen; the tip of the stylus (reflection tip) looks approximately five milimeters down from the actual tip placement. Either the screen is very deep into the device or that is a *fake*.
8. As for the top, the flash should be reflected in the screen as it was on the top corner by the antenna. There is no lighting to the screen except for the backlight. The whole corner by the antenna is VERY lit by a clear flash.

Hope that sounds *very* scientific for you. However, it was just a put-together of common knowledge :wink:
If it is real, eeeeeekkkk 8O HP won't be expecting any more purchases from me.

Edit: Look at the top pic of the 6000. Look under her right arm just where the sweater meets the wrist. Take notice to the keyboard. It looks like the right shift button is dead cener right about where the "V" button is supposed to be. This can not be right because the edge of the keyboard is about six inches to the left of that, just at the edge of her left hand. A keyboard six inches long? With a bunch of space on the right side of the keyboard? I don't think so... :?

:D :D :D

[ricksfiona]

I could live with the fact that it doesn't look like a 5xxx series... But the lack of 128MB is a deal killer.

She doesn't have man hands!!! They're long, like a concert pianist would have them. :wink:

[dh]

All of that and still no CF slot? :cry: Am I the only one that needs a CF modem? Why can't someone make a SDIO modem????

Ed, I know it is against your religion, but a BT modem should work ok. I agree however, I need dual slots for memory plus IO. CF/SD is best, but I would settle for dual SD.
I have to agree with Ed. A PPC of this price should have both card slots. With CF still having larger and lower cost memory cards, as well as more devices like dial up modems, there is no way I would buy an SD only device.

I'll continue to use my X5 until something with both card types gets me excited.

[eustts]

At this point, the pictures look good. But with the Toshiba taunting us with 640x480 screen resolution, I think I will wait.

The biggest problem 64MB RAM, needs at least 128 MB.



OK, I will say it, I have no need for a dual slot machine, but then again I don't have any CF slot devices, only SD. I must be wierd, if it came with dual slots it I have to say SD.

But then again my first PPC was a 5455, after reading PPT for over two years and waiting for the 2nd generation PPC to come out. I guess I will wait and see....

[Wiggin]

The pictures are actually the least attractive thing about the post. I would suggest the pics are a composite of many pieces, and the real design has yet to be seen. (Look at the length of the antenna in both pictures... pic 1 is clearly longer than pic 2... :roll: )

What IS attractive (or getting more attractive as time goes by) is the list of features. If in fact RIM is added before final release, and memory is placed at 128M or higher, and the screen is bumped up to 640x480 where it belongs... then we will have one impressive piece of technology indeed, and my 4150 will be in grave danger of becoming a gift to someone.

So let's hurry up and wait shall we? :way to go:

[arnage2]

did anybody look at the rom. (64mb) that means there should be upwards of a 32mb ipaq file storage.

Also, why wouldnt a device like this use the expansion packs.

[whatsnext?]

i have a few things to add to your list dmacburry2003,

first(1st) since when did ppc manufacturers color app buttons?

second(2nd) the antenna's are different lengths

third(3rd) if you look closely at the first pic, it looks like someone just layered(photoshop people know what i mean by that) a fake pic in there and made it fit nice....


i really believe that it is, sadly, yet another fake...

"the hopes and fears of all these months are making me soooo mad!!!!!! :evil:"

[Partita]

one word: uuuuug-leeeee.....

[iPAQ_ace]

Whoa, this is by far the best picture I have seen of this model. :wink:

I believe this will be my next iPAQ purchase...

I find it interesting that they mentioned that they will have more pictures in a couple of days. That should be a treat.

Expected availability in the summertime? I thought that this was going to come out towards the end of Q1 2004. Maybe HP is releasing it in the North America first then rolling out in other countries across the world?

[Mitch D]

Dang... I have got to stop leaving the house. Too much news goes by when I am not around! But man that sure is a nice looking unit!

[Ed Hansberry]

Ed, I know it is against your religion, but a BT modem should work ok. I agree however, I need dual slots for memory plus IO. CF/SD is best, but I would settle for dual SD.
M U S T not submit to the dark side... ;) :lol:

Yeah, I am thinking about it. Another $100 though...

[jeremyweisser]

I think that someone (specifically the photoshop-wannabe in the other forum) saw this device and then tried to get as close to the actual thing as they could when they made the other *fake* 6000 with a keyboard. They were actually pretty close, and it looks a LOT nicer without the keyboard. A bit like the Axim X3... :?

Comparison of the top 6000 in the woman's hand to the 6000 in the bottom pic next to the pen:

1. On the top pic, the blue/white HP logo underneath the antenna is centered. In the bottom pic, the blue HP is moved to the right of the white square.
2. The light reflection on the black thing to the right of the antenna on the bottom pic is much too smooth; light doesn't reflect like that.
3. The outlines of the power/app buttons is very blackend on the bottom pic. It is as if someone increased the contrast of each of them.
4. The outline of the bottom 6000 (toward the top right corner) is defined by a thick gray line. It's not even smooth; looks like it was drawn in paint.
5. It would be very easy to paste and compile in the bottom pic; the backround is pure white. And what kind of pen is that? It looks like a cheap plastic piece of junk I could get from the Dollar Store.
6. The top 6000 has a VERY RICH plastic texture to it. The lighting looks slightly correct but since the plastic is so very, very rich it could very well just be a molded casing.
7. In the top pic, the reflection on the screen; the tip of the stylus (reflection tip) looks approximately five milimeters down from the actual tip placement. Either the screen is very deep into the device or that is a *fake*.
8. As for the top, the flash should be reflected in the screen as it was on the top corner by the antenna. There is no lighting to the screen except for the backlight. The whole corner by the antenna is VERY lit by a clear flash.

Hope that sounds *very* scientific for you. However, it was just a put-together of common knowledge :wink:
If it is real, eeeeeekkkk 8O HP won't be expecting any more purchases from me.

Edit: Look at the top pic of the 6000. Look under her right arm just where the sweater meets the wrist. Take notice to the keyboard. It looks like the right shift button is dead cener right about where the "V" button is supposed to be. This can not be right because the edge of the keyboard is about six inches to the left of that, just at the edge of her left hand. A keyboard six inches long? With a bunch of space on the right side of the keyboard? I don't think so... :?

:D :D :D

I agree, The pics are certainly fake and the specs seem unrealistic as well, 64 MB RAM and no keyboard? Why would I buy this over a Treo 600 or my current 4350 & T616 combo.

I don't understand why people always fall for these botched pictures. I guess it is just a thirst for PPC bliss that all of us have.

[hopeful797]

would anyone else like to have nice big buttons that are easy to press whether you have stubby thick hands like the women in the picture or thin elegant hands like a fashion model? isn't that basic ergonomics? they appear to have lots of space for bigger buttons, but they resist for some strange reason.

unless it has RIM and a model with a keyboard (which i suspect and hope will happen), i don't see the advantage over the XDA II except for wi-fi. less memory, no camera, external antenna, etc. and not even the new bulvedere processors or vga or half-vga screens. and no rumours of edge support. so it appears to be hitting the market about 6 months behind the curve and when edge is about to be rolled out.

it also seems like the clunky HP designers have again conquered the sleek IPAQ designers at the merged company. this is amazing as the IPAQ 3600 series was a design sensation ala the ipod or the original palm and made the pocket pc market. now we are getting increasingly jordana-like designs and as much as some people here love jordana's (i'll concede the flip cover!), the ipaq was a landmark in pda design which it would be hard to argue has been matched since (which is not to say it didn't have its problems, but the 5550 is recognizably the child of the 3000 series introduced nearly 5 years ago; like the palm v basic design with its m500 and zire offspring).

this is not to start a flame war. just a personal lament about the lack of innovation on the pocket pc hardware front. :-( i do hope they'll release a vga/half vga model with a bulvedere chip and the clamshell keyboard that was bouncing around in that movie last year before i give in and go back to my first Palm machine in 5 years. OS6 seems like it will be the first true competitor the pocket pc has had feature-wise in that time period.

[iPAQ_ace]

Dang... I have got to stop leaving the house. Too much news goes by when I am not around! But man that sure is a nice looking unit!

:lol: I was just thinking the same thing! Everytime I step away from the computer for too long something like this happens!

...maybe I should step away more often!!! :lol:

[jlp]

I think that someone (specifically the photoshop-wannabe in the other forum) saw this device and then tried to get as close to the actual thing as they could when they made the other *fake* 6000 with a keyboard. [snip]
:D :D :D

I agree, The pics are certainly fake and the specs seem unrealistic as well... [snip]

These guys would have the device in their hands and still say, duh, it's fake

:evil:

[Gremmie]

I agree, The pics are certainly fake and the specs seem unrealistic as well, 64 MB RAM and no keyboard? Why would I buy this over a Treo 600 or my current 4350 & T616 combo.

I don't understand why people always fall for these botched pictures. I guess it is just a thirst for PPC bliss that all of us have.

Other than the iWalk, I have never seen a fake PDA, and PocketItalia has always been reliable for having information on devices. Besides trying to look at blurs which can be attributed to the file formats and the fact that these are touched on in photoshop, some people tend to ignore empirical data.

[Pat Logsdon]

I think that someone (specifically the photoshop-wannabe in the other forum) saw this device and then tried to get as close to the actual thing as they could when they made the other *fake* 6000 with a keyboard. [snip]
:D :D :D

I agree, The pics are certainly fake and the specs seem unrealistic as well... [snip]

These guys would have the device in their hands and still say, duh, it's fake

:evil:
There's actually a really easy way to tell that the pics are fake. If you look closely, you'll notice that the top picture has a phone icon under the power button/mike. It's missing in the second picture. Ah well. Good effort, whoever did it. :wink:

[wizardmaster2k]

Texas Instruments OMAP 1510 CPU

anybody know of the advantages/disadvantages of this processor? any info at all.

[DaleReeck]

I think that someone (specifically the photoshop-wannabe in the other forum) saw this device and then tried to get as close to the actual thing as they could when they made the other *fake* 6000 with a keyboard. They were actually pretty close, and it looks a LOT nicer without the keyboard. A bit like the Axim X3... :?

Comparison of the top 6000 in the woman's hand to the 6000 in the bottom pic next to the pen:

1. On the top pic, the blue/white HP logo underneath the antenna is centered. In the bottom pic, the blue HP is moved to the right of the white square.
2. The light reflection on the black thing to the right of the antenna on the bottom pic is much too smooth; light doesn't reflect like that.
3. The outlines of the power/app buttons is very blackend on the bottom pic. It is as if someone increased the contrast of each of them.
4. The outline of the bottom 6000 (toward the top right corner) is defined by a thick gray line. It's not even smooth; looks like it was drawn in paint.
5. It would be very easy to paste and compile in the bottom pic; the backround is pure white. And what kind of pen is that? It looks like a cheap plastic piece of junk I could get from the Dollar Store.
6. The top 6000 has a VERY RICH plastic texture to it. The lighting looks slightly correct but since the plastic is so very, very rich it could very well just be a molded casing.
7. In the top pic, the reflection on the screen; the tip of the stylus (reflection tip) looks approximately five milimeters down from the actual tip placement. Either the screen is very deep into the device or that is a *fake*.
8. As for the top, the flash should be reflected in the screen as it was on the top corner by the antenna. There is no lighting to the screen except for the backlight. The whole corner by the antenna is VERY lit by a clear flash.
:D :D :D

Actually, I disagree with the assumptions above. The big difference between the two units in the pictures above and below is perspective. The top picture is at an angle while the bottom picture is a head-on shot. The difference in perspective can create optical illusions. For instance, looking at your first five:

1. The logo looks slightly off due to the fact that the curvature of the top of the iPaq is more visible in the top picture. It makes it harder to see where the exact edge of the iPaq begins. The perspective change makes it even harder to confirm that they are in the same position.

2. Anyone who has owned an 3900/5400/5500 series iPaq knows how black that plastic speaker "box" thing is at the top of the iPaq. It shines back light very brightly because the surface is almost polished. The antenna however, like most phone antennas, is made of a hard, plastic, rubber material that is very dull. The iPaq 5400/5500 is a perfect example of this with its shiny black top and the little rubbery, dull stub antenna on the left.

3. Different levels of lighting and picture quality produce different contrast levels. The bottom one was probably done in a studio while the top one looks like it was done "on the fly". Plus, the white background of the bottom picture can produce different contrasts than the darker background of the top picture.

4. The top picture indicates to me that the left curve by the antenna is slightly different than the right side curve. Different degrees of curve in the same picture can produce different contrast levels.

5. I'm not sure what the quality of a prop pen in the bottom picture has anything to do with the iPaq's realism. And it could just as easily be a real picture as it is a "compiled" picture.

Also, someone mentioned that the antenna is shorter in one picture than another. It could be one of those angled antennas like on the Samsung phones - where the antenna angles back, away from the phone. God, I hate those. Again, perspective can change the perceived length of the antenna, especially if it is an angled antenna. A head-on shot of an angled antenna will always make it look shorter. Plus, lets not foget that these are low resolution web pictures. Trying to do a detailed analysis of such pictures is difficult to do.

Yet another mentioned the missing phone icon from one picture. It could be different pictures taken at different times of different builds of the phone. The final release may still look different from either of those pictures.

Anyway, I think you get the idea. The 6000 is not far from announcement/release. It is not unreasonable to assume that picutures are going to leak. Plus, they do look similar to that kinds of promotional pictures that HP uses for their PDA's.

[Anthony Caruana]

Also, why wouldnt a device like this use the expansion packs.

I have my doubts that HP will continue to build PPCs that support the expansion packs. Most of what the expansion packs offered is inbuilt now. My gut tells me that there won't be too many more models that support the expansion packs.

I don't have any evidence, it's just an opinion based on what i'm seeing. There's plenty of heat around devices like the 1900, 2200, 4100 and, now, 6000, line. I haven't heard of anything in the 5000 line for a long time.

[Myrddin]

Also, why wouldnt a device like this use the expansion packs.

I have my doubts that HP will continue to build PPCs that support the expansion packs. Most of what the expansion packs offered is inbuilt now. My gut tells me that there won't be too many more models that support the expansion packs.

I don't have any evidence, it's just an opinion based on what i'm seeing. There's plenty of heat around devices like the 1900, 2200, 4100 and, now, 6000, line. I haven't heard of anything in the 5000 line for a long time.

I really hope they don't abandon the 3xxx/5xxx form factor and the expansion pack idea. It works great and is great for adding miscellaneous peripherals that otherwise couldn't be added.

This iPaq looks like a fake of a real thing to me. I wonder if its real. I won't be getting one if it is as I can't stand cellphones but it still intrigues me.

*lovingly gazes at fully decked out ipaq*

[ppcitalia]

OK Boys.

We accept bets!

This is the real form factor od the new iPAQ 6300.

Please make your stakes....

Bye

PocketPcItalia Team

[Fishie]

Texas Instruments OMAP 1510 CPU

anybody know of the advantages/disadvantages of this processor? any info at all.

Tri wireless on chip, max speed 200MHz

[Oleander]

I really hope they don't abandon the 3xxx/5xxx form factor and the expansion pack idea. It works great and is great for adding miscellaneous peripherals that otherwise couldn't be added.

Being the happy owner of a Navman, LifeView Flyjacket, Symbol scanning, MadeByWhitney, PCMCIA and a CF Jacket i would very much hate to see the jacket concept be discontinued!

The jacket system was the # 1 reason why I chose Compaq in the first place (together with the "support" for linux).

But seeing how much of the stuff that hasnt been updated properly to support the 5xxx series, I think that I can guess the probabilities of an upcoming model with the jacket form factor. :(

[manywhere]

I think that someone (specifically the photoshop-wannabe in the other forum) saw this device and then tried to get as close to the actual thing as they could when they made the other *fake* 6000 with a keyboard. They were actually pretty close, and it looks a LOT nicer without the keyboard. A bit like the Axim X3... :? [cut]I agree with dmacburry2003. The image has been manipulated, i.e. most likely a fake. If you increase the brightness and adjust the contrast (of the top image) accordingly, you can notice that the hand holding the stylus has been cut out around the area of the finger tips and the stylus.
This is visible when looking at the image zoomed in and paying attention to the poor antialising of the fingertips.
The reflection could have been photoed from another iPAQ and the reflection was reused in this image. The metal-like texture can have been copied from another iPAQ aswell.
So, maybe this is an unofficial prop image from HP? :?

Btw, dmac, the keyboard you worried about is a Microsoft natural keyboard. Go out in the store and have a look at it... ;)

[andyclap]

From what I can see on TI's site, the OMAP 1510 is an ARM9 and maxes out at 175MHz, which seems a bit underpowered for today's PPC PDAs.

It seems unlikely that HP have gone for this, unless they're aiming for the lower end of the market, i.e. phone users who want to upgrade, rather than PDA users who want to converge. The XDAII by comparison has an XScale 400MHz processor.

[Palmguy]

It's not really my cup of tea, I am not looking for phone capabilities in my next PPC...I care more about the screen technology and size...I'd rather get the next evolution of the 2200/4100 series with a higher res./better screen.



i have a few things to add to your list dmacburry2003,

first(1st) since when did ppc manufacturers color app buttons?



The two center app buttons are green and red, they are the send and end buttons.

[nategesner]

Until HP builds me a PPC with a 480x640 screen, I'll stick with my trusty 2215.

[iPAQ_ace]

It's not really my cup of tea, I am not looking for phone capabilities in my next PPC...I care more about the screen technology and size...I'd rather get the next evolution of the 2200/4100 series with a higher res./better screen.

Expect additional new models from HP this summer as all current models are getting closer to hitting the 9 months to year old mark. Most iPAQ's have been around for that lenght of time before additional models are announced. If you're curious, check this article out http://www.ipaqabilities.com/reviews_articles/articles/0204-coming_attractions_hotfun.php

[iPAQ_ace]

Texas Instruments OMAP 1510 CPU

anybody know of the advantages/disadvantages of this processor? any info at all.

Tri wireless on chip, max speed 200MHz

What I really want to know is how good will it's battery life be, especially if the H6300 series is based on the WANDA reference design. Hopefully, the battery life will be better than the WANDA's....

* 300 hours of PDA standby time (all radios off)
* 210 hours PDA/GSM standby time
* 200 hours PDA/WLAN standby time
* 12 hours PDA/GSM talk time
* 9.5 hours PDA/GPRS browsing
* 9.5 hours PDA/GPRS browsing
* 3.5 hours PDA/GSM Talk/WLAN browsing/Bluetooth transfer

...3.5 hours using everything just won't cut it period.

[DarrenS]

All of that and still no CF slot? :cry: Am I the only one that needs a CF modem? Why can't someone make a SDIO modem????

I seem to recall reading about a modem-based WIFI access point (not a cable modem or a DSL modem, but a POTS-based modem). I tried to look for it by doing a quick Google search, but "modem wifi" came up with too many results. Maybe someone else remembers who makes it.

But, if you got one of those, then you could forego the CF modem and also enjoy wireless freedom!

[Prevost]

The spec saying "quad band GSM" makes me think this is also a cell phone. Am I right?

If so, it could work here in Panama where the band running GSM is 850 (not the most common, so most of the best phones do not work here :evil: )

[aristoBrat]

The spec saying "quad band GSM" makes me think this is also a cell phone. Am I right?
Yes, it's also a cell phone. :D

From reading the comments in general about memory, screen size, dual slots, processor, etc, I was wondering if people had forgotten that it was a Pocket PC Phone Edition, which is aimed at a market that has different priorities than the regular PPC market.

[Handy]

The tri-wire thing is a baby step forward, but not enough to make it attractive for me. I don't have any real use for BlueTooth, anyway.

Here's what I think it needs:

1. Dual slots, preferably CF/SD. Without that, it's not very useful for GPS. I don't want to throw away my existing CF GPS card and CF memory cards.

2. Needs a faster processor and definitely a faster bus speed. I find that Internet access on my Axim is slowed down by the I/O to the storage cards.

3. Would be nice to have better screen resolution.

Without those, it's not really much of an advance. In general, any PDA I buy in the future will need 2 storage slots unless it has very large on-board RAM (say, 1GB).

[leesnyder]

Pinky,

why must we always give up something to get a small improvement somewhere else. I dont see a biometric reader, No camera. if they could just get a good CDMA jacket that worked with bluetooth on the 54xx series.

Wait, i need 128mg to hold all my applications as this is a hand held computer, so i need the 55xx... no, wait, i needed the commercial IrDA to control my projector in presentations... I can go on...

this is why I still have a desktop, notebook, handheld and phone. I just want to give up two of them, I'll keep any combination, Phone - Notebook, Handheld PC - Desktop; what ever, but really, the technology must allow for all in one at a reasonalble price. If I could get to just two devices, I could spend $2k on each. The trio 600 comes close but palm OS doesn't.

they must be afraid that if they give us all the capabilites that we need in one device we will take over the world.

Sincerely, the brain.

[Cybrid]

Pinky,

why must we always give up something to get a small improvement somewhere else. I dont see a biometric reader, No camera. if they could just get a good CDMA jacket that worked with bluetooth on the 54xx series.

Wait, i need 128mg to hold all my applications as this is a hand held computer, so i need the 55xx... no, wait, i needed the commercial IrDA to control my projector in presentations... I can go on... ....

Sincerely, the brain.
Simple answer? cost.
It costs to add capabilities to a device. It costs to create new chips/hardware to add to a devices functionality. It costs!
In a free market world you're end up struggling to hold onto market share.
You put in the latest and greatest design "3D, 680x480 screen, BT, WiFi, whatever" and you then find that in order to compete with everyone else's design you cut some corners. You don't put in CF, IR goes bye bye, etc, etc.

[Talon]

I hope they stary pushing up the memory limits, why oh why are we stuck at 64? And why 400mhz?

Stuck at 64M because if you store your programs in flash rather than RAM that is all you need. It's more reliable and uses less power.
400MHz because thats what intel make. But MHz are a meaningless measurment. The Xscale is NOT an ARM 9 core, clock for clock it is slower than a true ARM 9. That's one of the reasons why the 400MHz xscale isn't that much faster than the 206MHz strong arm it replaced.

There might very well be a 128 MB version...stay tuned!

Not if they are using a 1510, its maximum supported SDRAM is 64MB.


Texas Instruments OMAP 1510 CPU

anybody know of the advantages/disadvantages of this processor? any info at all.

Tri wireless on chip, max speed 200MHz
From what I can see on TI's site, the OMAP 1510 is an ARM9 and maxes out at 175MHz, which seems a bit underpowered for today's PPC PDAs.

Close.
ARM 925 core at 175MHz plus a TI 55xx DSP also at 175MHz. USB host and client (so a USB OTG port is an option). Max SDRAM 64M at 100MHz, 16 bits wide. Camera interface.
No wireless built in but easy interfaces for them.

As with any modern CPU just looking at the speed will give you no indication of how fast programs will actually run on the unit. MHz do not equal performance.

So Pros and cons over the PXA255 xscale:
Cons
It will be slower in pure number crunching.
It has slightly less memory bandwidth so memory intensive programs may suffer.
Far more complex beast if you want to get every last bit of performance out of it.

Pros
Lower power.
Built in screen buffer and DMA everywhere will minimise the impact of the lower memory bandwidth.
For any wireless/audio/video activities a DSP is far more efficent than an ARM. A video playback that the Xscale has to run flat out to do the OMAP can do in the 175MHz DSP and still have the ARM processor sitting idle most of the time ready to run a second program.


Basically the OMAP is a very elegant design aimed at a highly efficent product where as the Xscale is a brute force approach. Which one is best will depend a lot on what you want to do. If you are doing a lot of wireless stuff then with an OMAP that is done on the DSP leaving your main processor idle.
Unfortunatly it lacks the high clock speeds intel always aim for because it makes the marketing easier. It'll be interesting to see how HP spin it (e.g. Dual processor design giving 350MHz of CPU power...)

Now the next generation of CPUs will get interesting, the newer OMAPs have DDR SDRAM giving them far more memory bandwidth than the Xscale has. That combined with the far better memory system design will help cancel out the xscales raw clock advantage. They also have built in hardware acceleration for several CPU intensive activities.

I actually have data on both intel and TIs next generation PDA CPUs, it's all under NDA but for the design I was looking at I prefered the OMAP, other people here prefered the Intel. There isn't that much in it once you dig into the internals. It's certainly not the clear cut choice that the clock speeds would imply at first glance.

[Talon]

Without those, it's not really much of an advance. In general, any PDA I buy in the future will need 2 storage slots unless it has very large on-board RAM (say, 1GB).

And a standby time of 10 minutes.

You need 64M of SDRAM (or 128 if specsmanship is that important to you) and 1G of built in flash.

[ipaqgeek]

Ed, I know it is against your religion, but a BT modem should work ok. I agree however, I need dual slots for memory plus IO. CF/SD is best, but I would settle for dual SD.

I wish they made a CF to Bluetooth adapter. That would rule with an iron fist.

[Kati Compton]

I've removed the foreign/English word usage discussion to the HOF&S, as it was getting rude. If there were any comments in those posts RELEVANT to this thread, the posters should feel free to re-post THOSE comments here.

[matpavon]

i just don't understand you, people!
discussing so much about obviously fake photos seems to be so childish! 8O
ok, i see the point of the discussion about performance, different cpu's, things that we would like/dislike to have. but, talking so much about something that doesn't exist as it is in our hands (like you were the girl on those photos), is just too much for me...
we can continue posting replies, but it won't change things. nobody can make me believe that ipaq6000 will come out soon and look just as it look on the photos. does anyone remember so many similar stories that apeared to be completely fake? just one example - last year, september, story about axim x3, with photos, specs etc? or some extra cheap with everything you need?
please, be more realistic, learn from the past, and share reliable news, and good advices!
:fro:

[jamisonw]

What most people are discussing here isn't really relevant to the average PDA user. If you don't need it to be a cell phone, get another device. For those of us who are tired of carrying two devices and have been using PocketPC Phone Edition, this device is an enormous step in the right direction. AT&T has SmartPhone and PocketPC Phone Edition devices (I use the SX56), but they do NOT support 850 :( , in other words I get about 1/2 their towers, which sucks. This phone supports all GSM frequencies, so I can get at least a decent PDA with 802.11b and a cell phone that works with all GSM carries on all frequencies. The rest can come later, this device finally allows me to carry just one device that takes care of my cell phone and PDA needs at their most basic level. For those of you who don't carry your PDA AND your phone together at all times, just get two devices. If you ALWAYS carry both together, this might be the answer for you... :D

[Talon]

I'm not sure if this would be aimed as a cell phone replacment. Assuming they are using a bluetooth stack which supports audio (the MS supplied one doesn't) then a bluetooth headset would allow it to be used as a phone. I just doubt that the battery life and form factor will make it a very popular choice as a phone.
I see the GSM being more targeted towards data communications. A travel anywhere in the world and still get your email type of thing, the next step towards a personal handheld device that is always connected to the internet.

[matpavon]

believe me, i am one of those who have to carry both, phone and pda. and i completely agree that it would be so nice to have them in one.
but, i was more trying to say that i didn't see the point of discussing about something that wasn't officially confirmed. or was there point? if i am wrong, and some of you know more than i do about these 'news', would you be so kind to clearify for me? so, is this just a rumour, or some of you can confirm? is it really coming to stores soon, similar to what we saw on photos? or we just talk about what most of us would like to have in our hands?
tx

[Talon]

I think the basic specs are going to be fairly solid. Around 3 months ago I was told by someone in a possition to know to expect a major manufacturer to announce an OMAP / PPC based product soon. If it is a 5910/1510 OMAP (the two names are for the same part) then the rest is fairly standard given tha CPU used. I've even seen an MS referance design with exactly those specs.

The only thing that I half expected to see different is there is a newer currently un-announced OMAP, I was expecting that to be the one used.

[aristoBrat]

is it really coming to stores soon, similar to what we saw on photos? or we just talk about what most of us would like to have in our hands?
tx
Both T-Mobile reps and HP reps have confirmed that this will be coming in the next few months.

[matpavon]

Both T-Mobile reps and HP reps have confirmed that this will be coming in the next few months.

well, thank you very much!
what i really wanted to hear from anyone was something like this. i really don't believe to most of the things if i don't see it by my own eyes. or if i don't hear it from officials. what you said seems to be quite serious...

[Powderfinger]

No CF and only 64 meg of RAM? Methinks they botched this effort, BIGTIME.

[JonnoB]

No CF and only 64 meg of RAM? Methinks they botched this effort, BIGTIME.

What Pocket PC Phone Edition has a CF slot? We don't know yet if there will or will not be a version with 128MB.

[aristoBrat]

No CF and only 64 meg of RAM? Methinks they botched this effort, BIGTIME.
LOL ...

They've taken something the size of a h2215 and have added a GSM phone, GPRS data, 802.11b, camera, and BlueTooth.

It's a phone, first and foremost. Battery life is essential. Were you planning on running a CF Microdrive out of it? Oy! ;)

[Mitch D]

No CF and only 64 meg of RAM? Methinks they botched this effort, BIGTIME.

Given what's in this device already, although I agree more ram would be better, what would one need a CF slot for? It already has all the main connection types one might want,

• GSM/GPRS, quad-band 850/900/1800/1900*
• Bluetooth 1.1*
• 802.11b WiFi*

I know CF is not a dying standard by any means but it seems more and more manufactures are going the SD route. I am not trying to start anything here but I can't help wondering what other devices we would want to put into a PPCPE like this that can't be found in a SD form factor.

As for ram... well that's what PPCtechs are there for, to give us what the maker has neglected to provide. :D

* info copied from Jason's post, just didn't want to do another nested quote

[Talon]

We don't know yet if there will or will not be a version with 128MB.

I repeat, the OMAP 1510 supports a maximum of 64MBytes of SDRAM.
Unless the reported specefications have the wrong model processor there is no way to produce a 128M version.
Newer OMAPs support up to 128M of DDR SDRAM.

I also repeat that 64M is all the RAM you need if you have enough flash.
I have a 64MB RAM PDA with 5 different mapping and database applications installs plus a few games. Around 100MB worth of programs and data in total. It has 59MB of memory free when nothing is running. How? It's got 512M of flash built in and thats where I install all the programs.

[Mitch D]

Talon keep in mind that at this point the specs are just numbers, HP has not released any numbers on the 6000 series so there is no way to say for 100% certian which CPU will actually be in it when it comes out.

As for the 128 MB, people are just stating what they would like to see in the unit... no harm in that.

[Talon]

Talon keep in mind that at this point the specs are just numbers, HP has not released any numbers on the 6000 series so there is no way to say for 100% certian which CPU will actually be in it when it comes out.

True, and as I said earlier, I was half expecting HP to announce something using the newer generation of OMAPs. But the PDA version of that generation hasn't been announced yet making it rather tricky for HP to announce that they are using it. That may change in a day or two, the TI developer conferance starts tomorrow.
But then again if HP decided they wanted to get a GSM/bluetooth/wi-fi design into production as quickly as possible the specs in circulation are exactly what I'd expect to see, they are identical to the specs of referance designs I've seen from both TI and MS. If time to market was critical for HP then they would release something along these lines quickly and then re-design for the newer CPU on slightly less rushed timescales.
In other words if the 6000 is a 5910 / 1510 OMAP based system then you could well expect a next generation 6-9 months later using the next generation of OMAP.

As for the 128 MB, people are just stating what they would like to see in the unit... no harm in that.
I agree that there is no harm in saying what you would like to see. I also don't see any harm in pointing it out when what people want isn't the best solution.
I just find it disapointing that so much of the market has been brainwashed by marketing into wanting things that they don't need and which actually result in a worse performing unit.
There are two main reasons why manufacturers produce 128M units rather than 64M units with lots of built in flash. 1) It's cheaper. 2) It's easier. Performance is certainly not one of their reasons.
It's the standard marketing situation, large numbers are far easier to sell than lower numbers which result in better performance.

[JonnoB]

I also repeat that 64M is all the RAM you need if you have enough flash.


Don't assume it is all I need. I have a 2215 with the PPCTechs 128mb upgrade and I am always trying to manage my memory because there is not enough for all that I want... and I have a 256SD and 1GB CF card installed!
Games are on my 256 card, movies on my CF and apps installed in my T2T disk along with main memory. It just is not enough for me.

[Jason Dunn]

i just don't understand you, people!
discussing so much about obviously fake photos seems to be so childish! 8O
ok, i see the point of the discussion about performance, different cpu's, things that we would like/dislike to have. but, talking so much about something that doesn't exist as it is in our hands (like you were the girl on those photos), is just too much for me...

Umm...I think you've entirely missed the point. This is a real device, it's coming out quite soon, and the entire point of a Web site like this is to discuss Pocket PCs. Why else would you be here? ;-)

[Jason Dunn]

I also repeat that 64M is all the RAM you need if you have enough flash. I have a 64MB RAM PDA with 5 different mapping and database applications installs plus a few games. Around 100MB worth of programs and data in total. It has 59MB of memory free when nothing is running. How? It's got 512M of flash built in and thats where I install all the programs.

Indeed, 128 MB of RAM will consume more power - 64 MB is best for power consumption. But you're forgetting that no Pocket PC on the market comes with 512 MB of built-in flash...in fact, I'm not aware of any PDA on the planet that has that. Did you mod that up yourself? What model of PDA has that? I think it's a bit silly that you're pointing people to a solution that doesn't exist in the market today. :? Anyway, I think the market has proven you wrong - if no one needed 128 MB of RAM, Pocket PC Techs wouldn't have built a business around doing upgrades. The market isn't always logical, but it's always "right". ;-)

I try to install as much to Flash cards as possible, but certain core applications are in RAM for speed and functionality reasons (ie: when I take out the SD card on my 4150, I still need to have access to certain programs). You're also forgetting that with many Pocket PC programs, installing to the internal Flash doesn't work - some applications simply aren't designed to work properly from the internal flash area.

[Talon]

I also repeat that 64M is all the RAM you need if you have enough flash.


Don't assume it is all I need. I have a 2215 with the PPCTechs 128mb upgrade and I am always trying to manage my memory because there is not enough for all that I want... and I have a 256SD and 1GB CF card installed!
Games are on my 256 card, movies on my CF and apps installed in my T2T disk along with main memory. It just is not enough for me.

I didn't say that 64M was enough ram if you had a certain amount of flash. I said it was enough RAM if you have enough flash.

Given your situation what would you rather have? 1GB of RAM extra and 1/4 of the standby time and a shorter battery life running or 1GB of flash extra and no performance impact?

You should be looking forward to PDAs with 128M of flash and 64M of ram built in rather than units with 128M of ram and virtually no user assesible flash. From what you just said they would meet your requirments far more.

[Ed Hansberry]

I didn't say that 64M was enough ram if you had a certain amount of flash. I said it was enough RAM if you have enough flash.
No, stop assuming that. 4 years ago it was 16 MB was enough if you had enough flash. 3 it was 32, now it is 64? There are lots of reasons I would want more than the current 64MB in my 2215 even though I have a 512MB flash attached.

Some apps must be loaded in RAM, like the memory hogging 5MB Voice Command. Without hacking up with a third party app, all of your My Docs sync to RAM. I have to keep a constant eye on my PIE Cache as it grows to nearly 10MB if I don't keep it cleared.

64MB may be enough for you if you have enough flash. That is as far as you can take that assumption as you don't know how others use their PDA, where the "P" still stands for "Personal." :)

[MikeInDallas]

The only ROM upgrade available for the 2210 adds 1 fix: support for the extended battery pack that at the time of its release was already on the shelves. At the same time, there are somewhere between 8 and 10 RAM fixes (read: eats system memory) to fix various bugs, and the alarm problem (major) continues to go unfixed as far as I know. After doing some research on printers and reading a lot of user feedback about HP printers, it sounds to me that HP has lost touch with putting the customer first and, unless there's money to be made, will not address serious issues, and if they do, with as little effort and attention as possible.:twisted:

[Talon]

Indeed, 128 MB of RAM will consume more power - 64 MB is best for power consumption. But you're forgetting that no Pocket PC on the market comes with 512 MB of built-in flash...in fact, I'm not aware of any PDA on the planet that has that. Did you mod that up yourself? What model of PDA has that?

It's a professional grade GPS reciever which is basically a PDA with GPS built in. 512MB of flash is standard on it. I keep meaning to mod one up to 1G. At one point I ended up with 70GB of flash sitting on my desk, getting the parts isn't going to be an issue and I think the software can cope.
At $6000 each they aren't exactly a mass market product.

I think it's a bit silly that you're pointing people to a solution that doesn't exist in the market today. :? Anyway, I think the market has proven you wrong - if no one needed 128 MB of RAM, Pocket PC Techs wouldn't have built a business around doing upgrades. The market isn't always logical, but it's always "right". ;-)

I didn't claim that it was a solution to everyones problems, I know it isn't.
I was simply using it was an example of how you don't need the RAM if you have lots of flash as standard.
That said if everyone wants to buy one I'm not going to complain ;-)

Right now people need 128MB of RAM because that is the only possible way of getting more built in storage.
All the market has shown is that people want more storage. Right now people equate RAM with storage hence the desire for more RAM. Newer units are starting to include more user acessable flash so that will hopefully start to change.
Ultimatly as the amount of built in storage increases things are going to have to change, both for power reasons and because that's what both MS and the CPU manufacturers want.

[JonnoB]

I didn't say that 64M was enough ram if you had a certain amount of flash. I said it was enough RAM if you have enough flash.

But that is not true either. I have plenty of flash, but I often run out of memory with 64mb. Except for the few programs that require installation in main memory, I have installed all of my programs in the PPTechs T2T disk area. I still run out of memory because I have uses of my Pocket PC that consume that much memory. I guess I should not expect any more innovation, stick with 64mb? For that matter, I guess I could go out into my garage and get out my 64k Commodore 64. It had more than enough memory.


Given your situation what would you rather have? 1GB of RAM extra and 1/4 of the standby time and a shorter battery life running or 1GB of flash extra and no performance impact?

Battery life is getting better all of the time. It does consume battery faster... but not as fast as you would think. With my 64mb expansion, my battery performance has been effected negligibly. The evolution is slow on these improvements and as battery life improves, I hope too that memory improves. With the demand for 128mb Pocket PCs already there, we see several already on the market to meet that demand. I suspect eventually we will see 256, 512, and growing specs over the coming years. Each improvement will likely be offset by better battery performance and CPU power-savings.


You should be looking forward to PDAs with 128M of flash and 64M of ram built in rather than units with 128M of ram and virtually no user assesible flash. From what you just said they would meet your requirments far more.
I already said that I run out of memory... how many programs can you run at once with only 64MB of RAM... for me, not enough. Some of my programs take up alot of that memory already when running. We have 128mb RAM on the market now, adding equal or greater flash is good. I want storage space (flash) and enough space for simultaneous execution of memory hogging apps (memory). Come back in five years and tell me how well you are getting along with only 64mb of memory.

[Talon]

Some apps must be loaded in RAM, like the memory hogging 5MB Voice Command. Without hacking up with a third party app, all of your My Docs sync to RAM. I have to keep a constant eye on my PIE Cache as it grows to nearly 10MB if I don't keep it cleared.

Sorry, I assumed we were talking about future products and the hardware required to run them rather than what people already own.
You're assuming I'm talking about the current version of PPC with it's requirments for certain things to be in RAM.

[Talon]

Come back in five years and tell me how well you are getting along with only 64mb of memory.

In 5 years time I wouldn't be using a PDA. Or at least not one with 5 year old hardware.

For current hardware and for about the next 2 years there are some hard limits on SDRAM:
OMAP 5910 : 64M
XScale PXA250/255/26x : up to 4 banks of 64M
OMAP 1611 (Not a PDA part but the closest announced part to something suitable for a PDA) : 128M of 200MHz DDR
Data on the next generation of Intel CPU is still under NDA.

[JonnoB]

Come back in five years and tell me how well you are getting along with only 64mb of memory.

In 5 years time I wouldn't be using a PDA. Or at least not one with 5 year old hardware.


You missed the point. We are all talking about a new device coming to market. Devices on the market are already 128mb. I agree that getting a large flash storage area will be helpful in storing programs and data, but there are users (myself included) where 64mb of RAM is not enough to host the applications we want to execute at the same time.

The argument that 64mb is enough remind of the same arguments I used to make that the PalmOS was good enough and there was no need for multi-tasking. That was before I was converted to the light and left the dark side behind. :D

I suspect that over time, the need for more base memory will increase, not stagnate as you elude to. To make an assumption that there is no need for additional operating ram for big applications is naive and/or narrow-minded (IMO.) I am sure there are users like me where 64mb is barely enough to get by.

[Talon]

I suspect that over time, the need for more base memory will increase, not stagnate as you elude to.

Last time I spoke to microsoft they were planning to reduce the RAM footprint over the next few releases rather than keeping it the same.

To make an assumption that there is no need for additional operating ram for big applications is naive and/or narrow-minded (IMO.) I am sure there are users like me where 64mb is barely enough to get by.

Maybe I am being naive, I think that the most efficent, best performing and most scalable system design is the one people should use. The rest of the world seems to just want a cheap, simple and temporary fix.

I've run applications that access 200MB databases on PDAs with 20MB of usable RAM. I'm not claiming that there was a lot of headroom left at that point but it is an example of how little RAM you need if applications are well written. After allowing for the PPC overhead 64M still gives you 59M free to run programs, you can fit a lot into 59MB assuming you're not using any of it up as storage.

[JonnoB]

Last time I spoke to microsoft they were planning to reduce the RAM footprint over the next few releases rather than keeping it the same.

I doubt that will happen. But this is no matter as this will be in XIP-based ROM most likely and have nothing to do with available RAM... unless you consider the NAND trend which just reduces the usable memory.


Maybe I am being naive, I think that the most efficent, best performing and most scalable system design is the one people should use. The rest of the world seems to just want a cheap, simple and temporary fix.

Thank you for deciding for me, which system design I should use.


I've run applications that access 200MB databases on PDAs with 20MB of usable RAM. I'm not claiming that there was a lot of headroom left at that point but it is an example of how little RAM you need if applications are well written. After allowing for the PPC overhead 64M still gives you 59M free to run programs, you can fit a lot into 59MB assuming you're not using any of it up as storage.

Yes, I regularly do the same, and I cannot access those same databases along with mapping software (another memory hog) and listen to music or record audio in real-time. Yes, I use a multi-tasking PDA, so I multi-task. I know I can't be the only one who regularly must exit some applications when the OS complains there is no more usable memory left.

[Talon]

Last time I spoke to microsoft they were planning to reduce the RAM footprint over the next few releases rather than keeping it the same.

I doubt that will happen. But this is no matter as this will be in XIP-based ROM most likely and have nothing to do with available RAM... unless you consider the NAND trend which just reduces the usable memory.

The unit I'm baseing my numbers on (64M RAM, 59.4M free) is using NAND flash. If it was using XIP from NOR flash then there would be about 2MB more free RAM.

I've run applications that access 200MB databases on PDAs with 20MB of usable RAM......

Yes, I regularly do the same, and I cannot access those same databases along with mapping software (another memory hog) and listen to music or record audio in real-time. Yes, I use a multi-tasking PDA, so I multi-task. I know I can't be the only one who regularly must exit some applications when the OS complains there is no more usable memory left.
Odd, I've never had a problem running all 3 of those at the same time. In fact I've run two GIS database apps at the same time on a unit with 32M of RAM without any problems.
But then that sort of detail would be dependent on exactly which applications were in use.

[matpavon]

Umm...I think you've entirely missed the point. This is a real device, it's coming out quite soon, and the entire point of a Web site like this is to discuss Pocket PCs. Why else would you be here? ;-)

maybe i did. maybe you did...
nevermind...
i know that this is the place where we discuss ppc's, and that is why i follow it and enjoy sharing experiences and ideas. but again, i am not completely sure that the device we could have seen on those photos, is really the one that is coming out soon. yes, i agree that we discuss (and that we should discuss more) what we would like to have in our hands...
so, sorry once again if i was and am being rude, but i never believe rumours that easily...
maybe i just need to listen more to people who have 'bigger ears' and know more things that i do about what companies are preparing to launch :wink:

[Powderfinger]

I plan on using the CF to transfer photos from my camera to my PDA to view or edit while in the field using RESCO picture viewer. All of the best cameras (digital SLRs) use only CF or microdrive for photo storage. I'm not talking the cheap point and shoots most folks use but really nice units like the Canon D-1, Fuji S1 or Canon Digital Rebel. Heck, even Sony with their stupid proprietary memory stick felt obliged to add a CF slot in their latest 8 megapixel camera. Otherwise serious photogs would not take it seriously. Plus, I already have a 1 gig CF. A 1 gig SD card is more expensive and less robust. Run one of those through the washer and dryer and see what you get. I've done that with CFs a few times and have lost nothing on them! Not only that but by having the bios for the card, in the card, they work in anything that was designed to hold them. My 1 gig card will work in my old Kodak DC-120 which shipped with an 8 meg card in 1998. So yes, a CF slot is a must for me. If it's not on the unit, I'm not buying it. I don't care what else is on it. The IPAQ 2210 has as SD and a CF slot. That way I can store GPS data on the SD card and use the CF slot for a nice GPS unit. One slot won't allow that setup. I know, I'm picky but hey, that's me. :wink:

[aristoBrat]

So yes, a CF slot is a must for me. If it's not on the unit, I'm not buying it. I don't care what else is on it.
Then it sounds like a PocketPC Phone Edition, much like a "cheap point and shoot camera", isn't right for you. :D

[matpavon]

cf is a must for me, too. especially because of gps unit. plus, i already have a bunch of cf extensions, and i won't buy a new device if it doesn't have cf...

[Jason Dunn]

If CF is a must, then a converged device like this won't be suitable for you - there's only so much they can cram into a device, and for now at least, WiFi/BT/GSM hardware takes up a lot of space, and I don't think there's room for CF. I'd like to have one too, don't get me wrong (I have a Digital Rebel), but smaller devices = SD slot, not CF (generally).

[JonnoB]

I am one of those that likes dual slots (CF/SD) but I am a realist too. With the exception of the 221x device, no PPC has ever had dual slots in a small form factor. I hope that dual slots, perhaps SD/SD will become the norm at some point. With the exception of a desire to have a PPC support your existing peripherals, there is less and less need for CF in a fully integrated device. What, besides memory goes into CF?

Camera -> now integrated into newer devices like XDA 2
WiFi -> now is often integrated
BT -> now is often integrated
GPS -> can use one via BT
VGA -> use SD, USB host, or proprietary sleeve instead
etc....

I hope the trend is to provide as many integrated options as possible into a small package. This will remove my need for CF.

[matpavon]

What, besides memory goes into CF?

Camera -> now integrated into newer devices like XDA 2
WiFi -> now is often integrated
BT -> now is often integrated
GPS -> can use one via BT
VGA -> use SD, USB host, or proprietary sleeve instead
etc....

I hope the trend is to provide as many integrated options as possible into a small package. This will remove my need for CF.

your explanation was correct, and i agree that there is no longer need for a cf. but, the thing is that many people (including me) already have plenty of cf units that would like to use still. so, if i already have a cf gps unit, i would like to keep it, and not to throw it away and buy a new bt gps... same with camera, vga...
it is hard to fit everything, i know...