Palm No Longer Offering Mac Synching?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.brighthand.com/article/Whats_Not_in_Cobalt' target='_blank'>http://www.brighthand.com/article/W...s_Not_in_Cobalt</a><br /><br /></div>"...Macintosh synchronization is something that the Palm OS used to offer, but won't any more. Mr. Slotnick made it clear that PalmSource isn't developing a Mac version of the Palm Desktop. As the way the PIM apps work has changed significantly, this means Mac users won't be able to HotSync without third-party software. <br /><br />Fortunately, a third party has already stepped forward. Mark/Space is going to release a version of its Missing Sync application for Cobalt. This will allow existing Mac conduits for other third-party applications to still work. In addition to the standard functions, Missing Sync for Cobalt will allow Bluetooth and Wi-Fi HotSyncing."<br /><br />I was reading an article about the PalmSource conference (hey, why didn't I get invited? :lol:) and the above quote caught my attention. One of the areas in which the Pocket PC never got caught up to Palm in was the are of Mac support. There have certainly been requests for a Mac version of ActiveSync, but ultimately I think it came down to a market share equation for Microsoft (doesn't it always?): "Do we improve the product that we have now, or develop a Mac version?" - you can guess which option won out. This move by Palm to leave the Mac market to third parties mirrors what Microsoft has done, and it takes away one advantage that Palm has traditionally held. What do you think?

[Jeff Rutledge]

As I haven't used a Mac in year, this doesn't affect me really. Still, it's too bad when you see companies scale back their scope. I like to see companies stretch into new areas, not leave existing ones.

However, since a third party app will do the trick, I don't think this will have a huge impact one way or another.

[bdegroodt]

Makes me wonder what's going on at Apple that no PDA vendor is willing to place their bets on Mac functionality. Especially given iSync. I can't understand why MSFT is willing and able to dedicate resources to Office, but not an ActiveSync product. All of the small shop options for syncing PPC/Palms with a Mac are so hit or miss. Frustrating.

[sub_tex]

Sounds to me like Mark/Space should start hooking up with vendors to have the software bundled. They should make a nice chunk of money from this sort of thing.

[Talldog]

This move by Palm...mirrors what Microsoft has done, and it takes away one advantage that Palm has traditionally held. What do you think?
Just like going to 2 versions of the OS mirrors what Microsoft has done. Of course, Palm will never admit that MS was right about anything, but does anyone really think that Cobalt apps developed 2 years from now are going to run on Garnet?

[wocket]

I know of a few Mac owners who where really miffed that the Sony Clie has never syncd with a Mac until Mark/space came along.


The sad thing about it for them is that they heard about Mark/Space through me who got the info of PPCT. :D

[Mojo Jojo]

As this site is dedicated to Pocket PC's, and PPCs inherent lack of connectivity to the Apple platform, I don't think many readers will find this annoucement effects them enough to have any great feelings.

Yes, a third party solution exsists. However it is not an 'out-of-box' solution. In my opinion this requirement alone will cause average consumers to consider the device unable to connect. Asking someone to find information on the PDA itself, then to go search third party software to see if one might make it connect increases the hassle.

Diehards will do the research anyways. But new users who pick up the box, see that it says thier system isn't supported will just move on.

While it is always a numbers game, I think this move reduces the one advanatge Palm had over Windows PPC in its cross platform capabilities, i.e. a larger market. This move however places Palm strictly in competition with Windows PPC for the same set of niche (PDA) users.

My crystal ball/monkeys paw/chicken bones tell me that a market void always attracts attention. Perhaps the third parties will do the leg work for palm and get included... perhaps Apple themselves will see a whole in thier Digital Life Hub where there is now no competition and reenter the PDA market (iPod with a few more functions perhaps?) or perhaps even Microsoft will now see new numbers and the cost of porting activesync will be less then cost of money made on new users.

[possmann]

Palm had an advantage?

[acronym]

considering the mac has a terrific built in file/bookmark/music/calendaring/address book sync, this isn't a big deal - I'd say Palm knows they can't beat Apple and decided to continue on building software where it is lacking - as in Windows.

[Janak Parekh]

considering the mac has a terrific built in file/bookmark/music/calendaring/address book sync, this isn't a big deal
Question for you, though. Does iSync have built-in Palm syncing support? If so, that would indeed be the explanation.

--janak

[Pixelnose]

I wonder, will Missing Sync for Palm work (or not work) as well as Missing Sync does for Pocketpc? Bluetooth syncing doesn't work right, appointment-syncing is unreliable..hollidays are suddenly a day forward.. and Markspace in every release has managed to not fix it. And this is on a "clean" pocketpc and "clean" mac. I don't doubt that they're good at what they do over there at Markspace, but maybe they're stretched way too thin? When it comes to isync, I start wishing for a pc... :(

[pdantic]

Hey, this means Pocket PCs will have a BIG advantage over Palms! There are two sync packages that work for Pocket PCs and Macs -- The Missing Sync (as mentioned earlier) and the package I use, PocketMac. If you're having problems with Bluetooth synching of your Pocket PC with Missing Sync, try PocketMac...

:ninja:

[Gremmie]

Palm had an advantage?

As much as I liked PPC, I would hardly recommend a PPC to anyone new to PDA's. Try explaining why the 'X' doesn't actually close the application.

[Jonathan1]

I've been battling the point that market share DOES matter with the folks on Macrumors. There are too many Mac users, I'm rolling over the idea of getting a PowerBook this summer, that scoff at market share and keep preaching that people should focus on the number of users that use OS X. While this is all well and good a developer has to consider market share and simply put you are going to sell more products with a 90%+ market share then a 5%+/- market share.
Niche market may work for Porsche, BMW and the like but their cars aren't dependant on 3rd party hardware to keep them afloat. If Apple wants to survive it NEEDS to increase its market share to 10% at minimum. Unfortunately I don't see this happening simply due to the sheer number of OEMs available on the PC side. Its one company standing, at minimum, against at least 7 other companies. (Dell, Gateway, IBM, Sony, Toshiba, HP/Compaq, Alienware, etc.) They can never hope to output the number of computers that the combined force of these companies can. So while Apple may, throwing out a figure here, increase its sales by 10% year over year it could very easily continue to lose ground on the market share battle. Lets be honest. Jobs is an idealist not a businessman. He's putting up a good fight with OS X and the new G5's but at the end of the day his stubbornness is going to kill Apple.
I can't criticize Palm for their decision. They made a business decision not to support a niche market. Can anyone blame them for that?

[felixdd]

If Apple wants to survive it NEEDS to increase its market share to 10% at minimum. Unfortunately I don't see this happening simply due to the sheer number of OEMs available on the PC side. Its one company standing, at minimum, against at least 7 other companies. (Dell, Gateway, IBM, Sony, Toshiba, HP/Compaq, Alienware, etc.)

And don't forget the overseas market -- NEC...Samsung...Panasonic...

It's funny how Palm insists they are superior to the operating system that they are also imitating...and now that they're abandoning their old business philosophy and playing right into their competitor's playground, they run the risk of getting gunned down rather quickly. IMHO the only thing holding up Palm's name is its name...but once people realise there isn't all that much in a name (however well known), then the real competition starts.

[JackTheTripper]

Being a PPC user that has 3 macs (and no PC's) at home I just hope these third party companies will eventually get it right. Currently I sync my PPC at work to my PC but I'd love to get a program (that works) for my wife for her PPC. She is using it out of box and it's worked well for her thus far. As long as she remembers to back up to her memory card once a week.

[bdegroodt]

Well...I hate to bring up the old topic of standards and syncronization, but it sure would be nice if Palm, MSFT and Apple would embrace an open syncronization standard (SnycML). It's not a problem that stops at the PDA marketplace. There are a lot of applications and hardware that could benefit from dropping these proprietary sync methods.

[Gremmie]

If Apple wants to survive it NEEDS to increase its market share to 10% at minimum. Unfortunately I don't see this happening simply due to the sheer number of OEMs available on the PC side. Its one company standing, at minimum, against at least 7 other companies. (Dell, Gateway, IBM, Sony, Toshiba, HP/Compaq, Alienware, etc.)

I'm not sure why you think that, market share doesn't mean anything about success; or why niche markets works for cars but not computers. If Apple wanted to increase market share, it would cut prices; the last time they cut prices, demand sored and they couldn't even keep shelves stocked. Their stock has increased faster than the Dow, but the Price/Earnings ratio is below the Dow average. So, I'm not quite sure why you think they need to increase market share, especially with their entry in the cross-platform accessories market.

[Fzara]

Palm had an advantage?

As much as I liked PPC, I would hardly recommend a PPC to anyone new to PDA's. Try explaining why the 'X' doesn't actually close the application.

I've had a Dell Axim X5 for about a year or longer now, and I finally decided to buy the new Sony TH55. Sure, its not a PPC, but I really like the Palm OS and the PPC OS, each for their own purposes.

[gorkon280]

considering the mac has a terrific built in file/bookmark/music/calendaring/address book sync, this isn't a big deal
Question for you, though. Does iSync have built-in Palm syncing support? If so, that would indeed be the explanation.

--janak

I quote from the iSync help file:


Make sure you've installed iCal 1.5 or later, iSync 1.2 Palm Conduit, and Palm Desktop 4.0 or later for Mac OS X.


To download the latest version of iCal, visit www.apple.com/ical. To download the latest iSync Palm Conduit, visit www.apple.com/isync.


iSync requires HotSync 3.0, which is installed along with the Palm Desktop 4.0 software. For more information about Palm Desktop software, visit www.palm.com/macintosh.


WARNING: You should plan to sync your Palm OS device with only one computer. If you add your Palm device to iSync on more than one computer, the information may not sync correctly.

It appears iSync is just the conduit between hotsync and iCal/Mail/Address Book. Very similar to the way the missing sync works. Honestly, it's frustrating the heck out of me that a platform with more market share on the desktop then Linux does not have PocketPC support and now it seems Palm support will be gone from the Mac as well.

[gorkon280]

I'm not sure why you think that, market share doesn't mean anything about success; or why niche markets works for cars but not computers. If Apple wanted to increase market share, it would cut prices; the last time they cut prices, demand sored and they couldn't even keep shelves stocked. Their stock has increased faster than the Dow, but the Price/Earnings ratio is below the Dow average. So, I'm not quite sure why you think they need to increase market share, especially with their entry in the cross-platform accessories market.

Hmm. My 12 inch G4 Powerbook cost LESS then the closest PC laptop that had firewire. Check it out. For a cheap, small and very well built laptop capable of importing and editing video and making a DVD, nothing beats this machine.

[klinux]

Makes me wonder what's going on at Apple that no PDA vendor is willing to place their bets on Mac functionality. Especially given iSync. I can't understand why MSFT is willing and able to dedicate resources to Office, but not an ActiveSync product. All of the small shop options for syncing PPC/Palms with a Mac are so hit or miss. Frustrating.

I think vandors may fear that if Apple ever comes out with a PDA product, the Mac users will flock to that product because of its tight integration with Apple. Case in point: you don't see that many other portable digital audio player that caters to the Apple audience, do you? [Granted, iPod is the best out there, IMHO.]

Also, I read that there is a way to sync Clie without Missing Sync. Just install the Palm Desktop software with iSync and it will work, no?

I still sync my Dell Axim with Windows (tried Missing Sync for PPC, did not like it too much) but I do like the simplicty and integration of iCal/Address Book. Entourage is just as good as Outlook as well.

[tthiel]

Blah, blah, blah. I've been using Macs since 1984 and I've seen people say everything you are saying for that entire time. That Apple is going to die if it doesn't do this or that. They've all been wrong and so are you.

I've been battling the point that market share DOES matter with the folks on Macrumors. There are too many Mac users, I'm rolling over the idea of getting a PowerBook this summer, that scoff at market share and keep preaching that people should focus on the number of users that use OS X. While this is all well and good a developer has to consider market share and simply put you are going to sell more products with a 90%+ market share then a 5%+/- market share.
Niche market may work for Porsche, BMW and the like but their cars aren't dependant on 3rd party hardware to keep them afloat. If Apple wants to survive it NEEDS to increase its market share to 10% at minimum. Unfortunately I don't see this happening simply due to the sheer number of OEMs available on the PC side. Its one company standing, at minimum, against at least 7 other companies. (Dell, Gateway, IBM, Sony, Toshiba, HP/Compaq, Alienware, etc.) They can never hope to output the number of computers that the combined force of these companies can. So while Apple may, throwing out a figure here, increase its sales by 10% year over year it could very easily continue to lose ground on the market share battle. Lets be honest. Jobs is an idealist not a businessman. He's putting up a good fight with OS X and the new G5's but at the end of the day his stubbornness is going to kill Apple.
I can't criticize Palm for their decision. They made a business decision not to support a niche market. Can anyone blame them for that?

[Gremmie]

Blah, blah, blah. I've been using Macs since 1984 and I've seen people say everything you are saying for that entire time. That Apple is going to die if it doesn't do this or that. They've all been wrong and so are you.


No, they weren't all wrong, Apple just adjusted appropriatly. Steve Jobs hasn't only improved the image of Apple, but he's also improved the structural finance of the company. If Apple continued like they did in the early/mid 90's, they would have gotten in serious trouble.

[CupertinoSlim]

Specialized applications on the Palm don't have Mac versions, so there's little point in continuing to support a proprietary conduit technology on that platform. SyncML will sync what can be sync'ed, and that's it.

As long as iSync supports reasonably current versions of SyncML, Macs will be able to sync with high-volume PDAs, which will be smart phones. For the dwindling number of people using standalone PDAs there'll be niche solutions like MacSync, etc.

[Jonathan1]

Blah, blah, blah. I've been using Macs since 1984 and I've seen people say everything you are saying for that entire time. That Apple is going to die if it doesn't do this or that. They've all been wrong and so are you.




No the difference is that they predicted Apple's imminent death. And let’s be honest here. If Jobs hadn’t come back to Apple it would have died. I'm talking about a slow lingering death. How many major apps has Apple lost in the last year. I know there are at least 2 products Adobe dropped and is now only making them on the PC.
It’s not going to happen this year or even next year but in 5-10 years? Microsoft has, in its history, never put out any OS as robust and stable as Windows 2000 and Windows XP. (PITA patches aside.) The ease of use issue is becoming less of an issue with XP at least in some regards (I still think network device and wifi setup is a bloated mess in XP.) Unless MS really drops the ball on Longhorn I think there is a good possibility that Apple could be in trouble. Granted no one can predict what is going to happen in 5 years. I said before Jobs is an idealist not a businessman. He’s brought the company back from the edge but it may very well be too little too late. I would suggest that even Jobs knows this what with their fetish like focus on digital music. I think in the next few years you are going to see them diversify for a “just in case” scenario that is starting to seem likely. I’m betting you will start seeing more digital lifestyle devices show up from Apple.

[Aerestis]

This is dissapointing to me. I really like palm... In fact, I own a Palm and I don't have a PPC anymore. Sure I will be able to sync my tungsten|e to my mac for now, but what about when I don't want to pay extra next year to sync my palm (insert new model name here)? It's not cool for people like me. But it's true, I'm a part of a very small market. But I also have a pc, so I can still sync. But it's inconvenient... I prefer my mac over my pc. Just as I prefer palm. I guess in the end, I chose the wrong computers to like :D

My thoughts aren't controversial statements against or for pc, mac, palm, or ppc, what they are is dissapointment and a really strong hope that I'll be able to sync conveniently for free in a year or so. or at least for a price under fifteen dollars Canadian. (roughly three pennies American) :)

[Ketsugi]

I have several friends who chose Palms over Pocket PCs simply because they wanted to be able to sync easily with their Macs. I cannot imagine this move by Palm to be anything less than damaging, both in terms of customer relations (with existing customers) and public relations (with potential customers). Or at least, those with Macs.

[Foo Fighter]

While this move by PalmSource is rather tragic, it is purely a business decision and nothing more. Everyone likes to play politics, but it comes down to money and resources, which often fall hand in had, if you'll pardon the pun. Paying developers to write software costs a great deal of money. PS is simply recognizing that the Macintosh market is too small to support and offers little ROI (return on investment). And I hate to bring up the market share issue, but since nearly 97% of the computing work revolves around Windows, it makes little sense to support Macintosh, a trend that will continue over time. Especially since that market isn't growing. You guys are forgetting PalmSource is not a large company, they are quite small. From a business standpoint they are making the right decision by allowing third parties to handle this task.

And it's not like we Mac users won't have the ability to sync Palms with Apple products, since third party developers like MarkSpace will quickly fill the gap. The biggest blow will come from not having access to Palm Desktop conduit anymore. This will cripple the Palm sync conduit feature in iSync, unless Apple can provide some way around that. As for the PIM itself, well frankly iCal and Address Book suck, IMO. I haven't touched those apps since they first came out. For myself, I strongly prefer Microsoft Entrourage for its robust features and PIM integration. Apple still doesn't understand how to make a good PIM. If third party developers could offer syncing with Entrourage (including email support), that would beat Palm Desktop right out of the box.

This is not the end of the world. Life will go on....and so will syncing.

[Zack Mahdavi]

I'm one of those that switched about a year and a half ago from Windows XP to Mac OS X. Sure, Windows XP is a good OS, but I love the power of UNIX, all the multimedia capabilities of the Mac, and the fact that I don't even have a Virus Scanner installed on my computer. :D

I used to be a long time user of the Palm OS back when I used Windows. However, when I switched to the Mac, I must say that Palm's desktop synchronization program was finnicky at best. Most of the time, it would crash on me. The reason was because Palm just ported over their old version of Palm Desktop for Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. It was unstable and the interface was really clunky.

Last month, I was on the market again for a new PDA. I was reading about products like PowerMac and Mark/Space MissingSync, and I finally decided to make the plunge and get a PocketPC. My experience has been wonderful. PocketMac synchronizes so well with my Mac, it's unbelievable. If I move pictures into the "PocketMac album" in iPhoto, they get moved to my PocketPC. If I drag music into my "PocketMac Playlist" in iTunes, it's installed on my PC. In fact, PocketMac's third party support of the PocketPC has been 10 times better than Palm's support of their Palm OS on the Mac.

I have PocketMac set up to work with iSync. So when iSync runs, my iPod, bluetooth Sony Ericsson T610, and my new PocketPC are all synced together. It's a wonderful feeling being so connected.

Goodbye m505, hello iPaq 4155!