Sault Ste. Marie Makes High-Speed Power Play: Internet Piped Over Electric Grid

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1075936210031&call_pageid=968350072197&col=969048863851' target='_blank'>http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/Con...ol=969048863851</a><br /><br /></div>"Sault Ste. Marie, known largely as a northern Ontario steel town, is set to become the first municipality in Canada to offer residential high-speed Internet service through the power grid. Local energy supplier PUC Inc. hopes other hydro utilities will follow its lead and give cable and telephone companies a jolt of competition.<br /><br />...This is appealing to hydro companies that are looking for new sources of revenue but don't want to invest heavily in new telecommunications facilities. Virtually every home and office is wired for electricity, so every building has the potential to access the Internet and other data services through medium-voltage power lines. Speed of service generally equals or exceeds cable and digital subscriber line (DSL) products."<br /><br />The promise of high-speed networking over power lines has been talked about for at least five years, but this is one of the few implementations of this type that I've seen. Go Canada! :mrgreen: Do any of you live in an area where this type of Internet access is an option?

[ctmagnus]

Wyant is quick to point out PUC won't be using power lines to deliver Internet access directly into the home. Instead, the company is installing wireless access points along its medium-voltage lines in densely populated residential areas.

These wireless "boxes" convert data so they can be sent through the grid and on to PUC's fibre-optic backbone, which connects to the Internet. Home computers equipped with 802.11b or "Wi-Fi" wireless access cards and within 150 metres of these access points will be able to use the service.

The advantage of this approach, said Wyant, is that instead of being tied to home with cable or DSL service, a power-line subscriber with a wireless card can use the service anywhere in Sault Ste. Marie that's within range of an access point.

Interesting! I wonder what kind of authentication they'll use.

[bspline]

I know there are some places here in Brazil (some condos in Rio and São Paulo) that are implementing this kind of access... still somewhat experimental I guess.

It could be the easiest and potentially cheapest form of access, I just worry if my fridge might catch a virus of some kind ;)

[Jorj Bauer]

It could be the easiest and potentially cheapest form of access, I just worry if my fridge might catch a virus of some kind ;)

BPL is a *bad* idea, but the general public don't know about the pitfalls. The politicians and businessmen concentrate on the moneymaking side of the technology, and as a result it looks like a good thing for everyone.

In actuality, BPL creates an incredible amount of RF interference. The power lines act as huge antennas, helping to transmit the interference.

Most people brush off the issue when they hear that it will primarily affect amateur radio operators. But the amateur radio operators are officially licensed (under Part 97) to use their technology, and BPL is licensed as a Part 15 operation by the FCC (it's similarly licensed in Canada). This means that any amateur radio operator has been granted priority to use their communications, and *may not* be interfered with by a Part 15 device. The amateur radio operators complain to the FCC, and the FCC is obligated to find the offending device and have its operator shut it down.

There are other consequences, too. Any 47 MHz cordless phones, X-10 wireless remotes (especeially keychain dongles) and remote control car toys are virtually guaranteed to succumb to the RF put off by BPL. These devices must accept the interference because they're also covered under Part 15.

This is to say nothing of the other actual licensed uses. The military, for example, has communications gear that runs in this part of the spectrum. I'm sure they'll have something to say about it the first time that BPL causes them to miss some important communication.

And just to say it again: the Canadian radio licensing scheme is nearly identical to the US. The same threats apply.

For more information about BPL, including real engineers' test reports, take a look at the ARRL's web site. (http://www.arrl.net/news/bandthreat)

[gorkon280]

I will side with the other poster. Some people think that BPL is a good idea because they are convinced by the powers that be that thos will get Broadband to the rural areas. It MAY do this but it will cause more harmful interference to amateur radio, that local police department still on an old radio system, FRS radio and pretty much every other RF device. The main problem with BPL is that you have to look at who will be managing it....the power companies. Ever been near a powerline and hear all kinds of racket on your local talk radio am station? This can be caused by a transformer or some other part of the line that is going bad. THAT and powerlines are usually not shielded...at all. Just a thin layer of insulation. BPL will leak alll over everything. Our government still uses HF radio and Amateur Radio depends on it. BPL will also affect homeland security as the ARRL has just inked a deal making Radio Amatuers a part of the Homeland Security plan. There is also better ways of getting this to rural areas and the people who want and need broadband in rural areas can get it via satellite and if they really need it, and have the money, they can always order a T-1 and I am sure the phone company would help. The point is, alot of rural folks don't give a crap about internet access. They are just as happy as pie using a dial up.

[that_kid]

Yes i'm all for broadband everywhere, but when broadband affects my ability to communicate then something must be done. Many people just shrug it off with thoughts that it's just us ham operators who are complaining, but it's others as well. The red cross is having issues with bpl as well. It's no coincidence that many countries have stopped bpl deployment because of the interference it introduces.

[Jason Dunn]

Wow....quite the eye-opening information. Thanks guys! 8O

[tsb_hcy]

I think the greater good should come into play. Every house NEEDS broadband if we are to develop as a society. IF this is the best way to do it quickly I'd happily look the other way. The devices experiencing difficulties can just change bands.

[jizmo]

This was tested in Finland as well and they got it working. But the problems were similar than explained here, interference, data loss..

The idea about five years ago was to provide internet to the areas that couldn't have one because of the restrictions of asdl technology (as you might know, Finland is very similar to Canada; nordic country with people living in long distance between each other). However, in the last five years all the other technologies have become available to everyone. If your village doesn't want to have ADSL installed, you can have instant access by GPRS from almost every location of the country.

I suppose this electrical thing will be buried in silence. If it hasn't been, already.

/jizmo

[leigho]

It's already running over here in the UK on the South Coast. 1Mb link download AND Upload.

http://www.southern-electric.co.uk/broadband/

Leigh

[myung]

Hong Kong is running ...

http://www.powercom.com.hk

Cheers,
Michael

[Jorj Bauer]

I think the greater good should come into play. Every house NEEDS broadband if we are to develop as a society. IF this is the best way to do it quickly I'd happily look the other way. The devices experiencing difficulties can just change bands.

If it worked that way, that'd be great. Unfortunately, the propogation characteristics of RF are specific to the frequency. That is, the lower the frequency, the farther the wave will travel. This is related to why AM radio stations have to turn down their transmission power at night.

WIth BPL, you're oblitterating all of the low frequencies. To make it worse, the characteristics of the frequencies in question mean that the RF interference from BPL will also travel very long distances.

The services that are using the affected frequencies are either devices that can't be changed (in the case of 47MHz unlicensed usage), devices that can't be changed quickly (actual licensed FCC users, such as the local police) or devices that require the propogation characteristics of the frequencies affected (local police in rural areas, amateur radio operators, emergency communications services, the military, and probably many others).

BPL causes more problems than it solves, and there aren't any solutions to the problems that it causes.

[tsb_hcy]

^^ :( A lot slower than I hoped. My previous cable modem blew that away.

[that_kid]

I think the greater good should come into play. Every house NEEDS broadband if we are to develop as a society. IF this is the best way to do it quickly I'd happily look the other way. The devices experiencing difficulties can just change bands.\

Sorry but it's not that simple, bpl spreads noise across several bands, and I mean a large spectrum. Plus acording to part 15 of the FCC rules which bpl falls under it cannot interfere with other communications and must accept interference from other equipment but communications services licesnsed by the goverment fall under a different catagory which says that part 15 devices must not interfere with it. I'd like to see someone goto the military and tell them "sorry but I need broadband, you'll just have to move you sonar and other communication somewhere else". It's not going to happen, that's why bpl is meeting with such resistance now. It's not as simple as changing bacns because bpl spreads it's impurity across all of the bands making them useless for any typse of communications. Furthermore with wave propgation and the frequencies that bpl uses you can easily get interference from bpl that's hundreds of miles away. Now imagine how much interference that would cause if you had several places running bpl. Think of it as that CB operator running a dirty and illegal power amp and they're causing all sorts of problems lilke coming through you clock radio, messing with your tv, screwing with your computer and so on. CB radio falls under part 15 of the rules which means that you can call the FCC and they can and will come out and shut down that station, i've seen it hppen many times. As a radio operator I'm all for the advancement of technology but when that technology violates the very laws which other communication devices violate then somthing must be done. It's not as simple as telling as changing bands because the broadband signla is just that, it's broad. I can see it now, a disater is happening somewhere and they are using military and ham radio frequencies to coordinate help but they can't hear the stations because bpl is addding noise to the whole spectrum. Having said all of that there are some bpl companies working on a way to reduce the interference caused by bpl. They are offering to move the bpl frequency up into the 5ghz range which should be much beter because the signal won't travel very far and cause problems with anything even on the same band (short range just like 802.11a). I hope we can get it together with this bpl, i'm iexcited about another technology that offers great speed and can possibly help me get rid of crapcast, but i'm not trying to sacrifice other communication services just to do it.

[RedRamage]

Interesting stuff... this is the first I've heard of this, and while it sounds really interesting, I fear that there may be MANY complications.

What does this do the normal power that comes through the outlet? I work with a lot of copiers and these things get VERY tempermental if the power isn't smooth and even. We've ended up needing to install dedicated circuits to nearly everyone one of our new copier installs. If a power company starting throwing data traffic over the line, would that effect the stability of the power coming out of the outlet?

[gorkon280]

I think the greater good should come into play. Every house NEEDS broadband if we are to develop as a society. IF this is the best way to do it quickly I'd happily look the other way. The devices experiencing difficulties can just change bands.

I am sorry. Every house does not need broadband. Your telling me that in the rural areas where they hardly have enough jobs for people that most folks don't own a computer that they need broadband before jobs? This is idiotic. Also, BPL is NOT the only way to get broadband to the rural areas.

[edramsey]

I am an Assistant Emergency Coordinator for the Emergency Services group here in Jacksonville Florida, and we are examining closely the interference caused by BPL. I am all for the "greater good," but to brush aside the pitfalls because of enthusiasm for the internet might not be in our best interests if it clouds our emergency communicastions infrastructure for five or ten years while we try to shield older equipment to cope with this wholly new source of intereference.

In all the Homeland Security and local Mass Casualty drills I have participated in, high frequency (HF) communications (Ham Radio) have been key for long-distance, multi-county and multi-jurisdictional coordination. Our statewide EDICs communication system was unable to speak to one county during a drill, and the Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES) folks jumped in to form that link. Also, all the Hospitals in Duval County rely on the ARES group as their major means of disaster information communications from the site of the disaster and from the ambulance dispatch. We also are called on to provide emergency services for the Duval Count Emergency Operations Center, the Red Cross, the First Coast Disaster Council, The Duval Sheriff's Department, several local city governments, and others. During the 911 disaster in NYC, some of the most reliable communications for emergency workers and law enforcement was provided by the ARES volunteers.

As I said, I am all for enabling technologies (its what I do for a living), but enthusiasm should be tempered by research. If we make the BPL providers shield their lines and connections then there is no issue. But, most lines are not shielded, or the shields are not good for RFI. Most power line companies cannot afford the cost of providing the shielding. This then places the burden on everyone else, while the power companies make profits on BPL. Not exactly fair.

Sorry for the book, but this is very current events for me right now here in Florida.

Regards,
Ed Ramsey

Assistant Emergency Coordinator ARES
Duval County, Florida

[baker]

Ham radio folks hate this stuff due to the interference it generates as it trucks down the power lines. And, Mr. Ramsey's comments hit the nail on the head.

[Bill Gunn]

I think the greater good should come into play. Every house NEEDS broadband if we are to develop as a society. IF this is the best way to do it quickly I'd happily look the other way. The devices experiencing difficulties can just change bands.

I am sorry. Every house does not need broadband. Your telling me that in the rural areas where they hardly have enough jobs for people that most folks don't own a computer that they need broadband before jobs? This is idiotic. Also, BPL is NOT the only way to get broadband to the rural areas.

You have a biased and false conception of rural life. It's not all "Grapes of Wrath" and "Ma and Pa Kettle". Maybe you watch too much television. Farmers and ranchers are making excellent use of technology from GPS to Satellite imaging and, yes, they do need broadband. They need it even if it means HAM operators have to find a new hobby and we can't use 10 year old cordless phones anymore.

[Jorj Bauer]

They need it even if it means HAM operators have to find a new hobby and we can't use 10 year old cordless phones anymore.

It's not the hobby aspect that hams are up in arms about (well some are, but it's not the big problem). It's the emergency communications aspect. Ham communication, believe it or not, involves a significant amount of providing communications when other methods fail. 9/13: cell towers down, landlines failed. ARES Ham volunteers filled in to provide vital life-saving communications.

More information about ARES (composed of Ham volunteers) can be found on the ARRL web site (http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/pscm/sec1-ch1.html).

[DimensionZero]

I'm curious. I always knew that powerlies caused interference and such, but never knew that BPL would actually intensify it so much...

I'd like to hear form the guys in Hong Kong and the U.K. where this has already been implemented. Buth are pretty technologically advanced and I'm sure they'd developed ways to contain these effects...

[Jorj Bauer]

I'm curious. I always knew that powerlies caused interference and such, but never knew that BPL would actually intensify it so much...

I'd like to hear form the guys in Hong Kong and the U.K. where this has already been implemented. Buth are pretty technologically advanced and I'm sure they'd developed ways to contain these effects...

That's a great question. If anyone has information about how it's proceeding in Hong Kong, I'd love to hear it.

I have seen reports of other test markets, and none of them has been favorable. I've only got one at hand.

From the 1/25/04 AMSAT digest comes this report:

The Austrian Amateur Transmitter Federation says that a Broadband over Power Line field test in the city of Linz has been cut short as a result of excessive radio interference. According to the national ham radio society, the Government Ministry for Commerce, Innovation and Technology closed down Linz Power Company's BPL pilot project because it was generating interference on the HF bands.


From a ways back (thanks google), Japan decided to nip the whole thing in the bud. (http://www.jarl.or.jp/English/4_Library/A-4-1_News/jn0208.htm)

I've also got this clip saved from FEMA (attribution lost, sorry) which doesn't relate to a specific test case:


BPL/PLC/PLT

A proverbial monkey wrench in the works for BPL? Expressing "grave concerns" about likely interference from unlicensed Broadband over Power Line systems, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) told the FCC that BPL could "severely impair FEMA's mission-essential HF radio operations in areas serviced by BPL technology." As part of the Department of Homeland Security, FEMA's perspective's on BPL could carry substantial weight at the FCC.


I'm sure that I've seen reports for at least two other test markets (one US, don't remember about the other one), but I can't find them at the moment.

[gorkon280]

You have a biased and false conception of rural life. It's not all "Grapes of Wrath" and "Ma and Pa Kettle". Maybe you watch too much television. Farmers and ranchers are making excellent use of technology from GPS to Satellite imaging and, yes, they do need broadband. They need it even if it means HAM operators have to find a new hobby and we can't use 10 year old cordless phones anymore.


Sigh...ham radio IS a hobby but it also exists as a service to the public as well. Who do you think gets messages in and out of an area during and after a hurricane, tornado, snowstorm, 9/11? The radio amateur does! Ham operators were there when communications needed to be setup for disaster relief efforts after 9/11. You hinder these folks, you risk lives.

I will side with you PARTIALLY. There are some who live in rural areas that could use or want broadband. Let's face facts though...WHAT is on the internet that you can't simply live without? Streaming meadia isn't it, e-mail isn't it...maybe porn? Now I will admit there's a TON of useful information out there but of that, what is life critical? Not much I can think of. Sure, hospitals in rural areas could sure use broadband to have surgeons guiding things over a teleconference. If your REALLY need broadband and you live in the sticks....you CAN get it. Not cheaply, but it's possible and you WILL pay for it. BPL CAUSES more problems then it's worth. The ARRL (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/#Video) has a great source for BPL and the problems it will cause. They even have video of a BPL signal interfering with others. Yes, the ARRL is a amateur radio organization, BUT they have paid for and done extensive studies on the effects BPL will have not just on the amateur, but on others as well. The BPL proponents so far have not provided anyone with much information that would dispute this. BPL affects more then just some radio hobbyists. It's a bad thing. There are BETTER ways of bringing Broadband to teh rural areas. Just as they did not have telephone service before cities when the phone first appeared, they don't have broadband. Broadband, be it DSL or Cable Modem, will come to the rural areas as soon as there is a DEMAND for it. BPL is just forcing the issue before there is a demand.

[volwrath]

[The main problem with BPL is that you have to look at who will be managing it....the power companies. Ever been near a powerline and hear all kinds of racket on your local talk radio am station? This can be caused by a transformer or some other part of the line that is going bad. THAT and powerlines are usually not shielded...at all. Just a thin layer of insulation. BPL will leak alll over everything

Sigh...ham radio IS a hobby but it also exists as a service to the public as well. Who do you think gets messages in and out of an area during and after a hurricane, tornado, snowstorm, 9/11? The radio amateur does! Ham operators were there when communications needed to be setup for disaster relief efforts after 9/11. You hinder these folks, you risk lives.

I will side with you PARTIALLY. There are some who live in rural areas that could use or want broadband. Let's face facts though...WHAT is on the internet that you can't simply live without? Streaming meadia isn't it, e-mail isn't it...maybe porn? Now I will admit there's a TON of useful information out there but of that, what is life critical? Not much I can think of. Sure, hospitals in rural areas could sure use broadband to have surgeons guiding things over a teleconference. If your REALLY need broadband and you live in the sticks....you CAN get it. Not cheaply, but it's possible and you WILL pay for it. BPL CAUSES more problems then it's worth. The ARRL (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/#Video) has a great source for BPL and the problems it will cause. They even have video of a BPL signal interfering with others. Yes, the ARRL is a amateur radio organization, BUT they have paid for and done extensive studies on the effects BPL will have not just on the amateur, but on others as well. The BPL proponents so far have not provided anyone with much information that would dispute this. BPL affects more then just some radio hobbyists. It's a bad thing. There are BETTER ways of bringing Broadband to teh rural areas. Just as they did not have telephone service before cities when the phone first appeared, they don't have broadband. Broadband, be it DSL or Cable Modem, will come to the rural areas as soon as there is a DEMAND for it. BPL is just forcing the issue before there is a demand.

Gorkon, your propaganda is entirely false. 1 Powerlines DO NOT have a thin layer of insulation. They are bare conductor. 2 Interference on AM radio is NOT necessarily caused by equipment going bad. 3. Slamming the power company? If your power goes out, the power company has it on as quick as possible. If your phone or cable goes out, they'll get to you in a day or so. 4. BPl can be allocated frequency ranges so it does not interfere with radio communications Notch filters can be used to insure hams their freqs. 5. ARRL is a powerful lobbying groupand I dont trust them. 6. BPL is in its infancy. It will get better. These issues will be worked out. Full disclosure: I am a ham radio, sw listening person who works for a power utility.

[gorkon280]

Gorkon, your propaganda is entirely false. 1 Powerlines DO NOT have a thin layer of insulation. They are bare conductor. 2 Interference on AM radio is NOT necessarily caused by equipment going bad. 3. Slamming the power company? If your power goes out, the power company has it on as quick as possible. If your phone or cable goes out, they'll get to you in a day or so. 4. BPl can be allocated frequency ranges so it does not interfere with radio communications Notch filters can be used to insure hams their freqs. 5. ARRL is a powerful lobbying groupand I dont trust them. 6. BPL is in its infancy. It will get better. These issues will be worked out. Full disclosure: I am a ham radio, sw listening person who works for a power utility.


I am not so sure about the bare conductor thing...doesn't look like it to me.

Power companies fixing power ASAP huh? You weren't at my house when it was out for almost a whole day!

Power companies are worse then Microsoft. Cable companies have recently improved thanks to deregulation. Power companies have not totally deregged yet so things are still almost as bad as they used to be. Plus the choices we get are minimal (between 2 power companies if you get a choice at all).

ARRL is a group of AMATUERS! They consist of like minded individuals who's sole purpose is the advancement of Amateur Radio. They are non-profit. The laws of the US give us the right to establish orgainizations such as the ARRL. The ARRL is alot more balanced then some OTHER lobbying groups. We will at least listen to companies if they give us valid technical data refuting their claims. SO far they haven't. So far the burden of proof is on these companies and there is increasing evidence of interference. Recently, the ARRL had successfully defended our 70 cm band from intrusion by LEOS (Low Earth Orbiting Satellites). Not only were the companies coming up with the LEO idea lax in providing technical data, the ARRL had proof that their idea would not work. The ARRL has a ton of engineers that are Amateur Radio Operators who are very smart. Most of these folks don't even work for the league either. While I DO agree BPL is in it's infancy, that just so happens to be the reason WHY it should not be implemented until it's been tested to death to protect EVERYONES intrests. RF spectrum is to precious not JUST to the ARRL and it's members. BPL affects more then ham radio. It's been proven in it's current form, not only does it spread noise in the HF spectrum, but it also does the same in VHF and UHF as well. UHF and VHF are not just used by amateuresl....your TV uses it, police, fire, rescue and FEMA use it as well. The ARRL isn't the only organization against BPL. FEMA is also against it. AM and FM broadcasters as well as TV broadcasters are against it as well. The ARRL might be a large lobbying group, but it's one of the few ways a citizen can protect his intrests in our government (besides VOTING!). Believe me, the power industry has lobbying groups as well and it's just as fair for us to have one too. For more on BPL check out:

ARRL's BPL Page (http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/)
JARL Article Regarding Japan's rejection of BPL (http://www.jarl.or.jp/English/4_Library/A-4-1_News/jn0208.htm)
FEMA's Response to the FCC Regarding BPL (http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6515292045)
NTIA's comments regarding BPL (not against, but not FOR interference either) (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/fccfilings/2003/bplcomments_08132003.htm)
AMASAT's Comments (http://www.amsat.org/amsat/news/ans2003/ans03250.html#04)
NAB's response AGAINST BPL (http://www.nab.org/Newsroom/PressRel/Filings/BPLReplies82003.pdf)
SETI League's Comments Regarding BPL and Possible interference of Radio Astronomy (http://www.setileague.org/editor/bpl.htm)


I think I have enough links. There are enough organizations from (excuse the pun) across the spectrum. With SO many organizations against it, a few failed projects due to interference and many other problems with the technology, I think NOW is not the time for BPL. Now if these BPL companies can come up with some advances decreasing the possibility of interference, then, you can bet I will be infavor of it....unfortunately, for the BPL companies, Satellite service that delivers 2 way high speed links will get abtter faster or as fast as the PLC stuff and this conversation will not have to be repeated.

[Canadian Kid]

Yes indeed BPL is a very bad idea.

Not only do the RF pollution issues ring very true (I have a friend who is conducting RF pollution tests in Sault Ste. Marie) but also its really hard to make a business case for BPL, especially in Canada.

In Canada, BPL is covered under the Industry Canada RSS-210 rules which are quite similar to the FCC Part 15 rules in the U.S.

The main difference being in the level of enforcement of the rules. Industry Canada does next to none.

The other difference is that Canada has one of the highest levels of broadband internet penetration in the world. In fact the majority of Canadian internet users have access to broadband through either DSL or cable and in alot of cases both!

Sault Ste. Marie isn't some isolated "hick town". Its a city of some 80,000. And it already has broadband internet access. There's no need whatsoever to introduce a new service that destroys so much of the radio frequency spectrum in the process. This is a solution looking for a problem.

The folks who are proposing the use of BPL technology will try to sell this stuff on the basis of providing service to rural areas, but that's just a "snow job". The economics of providing wired broadband access to rural areas just isn't there. No, the target of the BPL industry is urban areas.

If the target was rural areas, why are they testing it in an urban area?

Amperion, the company operating in Sault Ste. Marie alleges that they have the ability to "notch out" the ham radio spectrum. Oh yeah? They've made an absolute mess of the spectrum in Penn Yan, NY.

What we have to ask ourselves is do we want to destroy a vital voluntary pool of radio communications experts that are there to serve the community in times of emergency so that a few companies can make a whole pile of dough off of what is an inferior broadband internet technology. (Or...at least they think they can.)

Ham radio operators were involved in helping out during the BC Forest Fires, the Manitoba Floods (looks like they'll be busy again this spring!), the Ontario power blackout, the Ontario/Quebec ice storm, the Saguenay floods and the SwissAir disaster off of Peggy's Cove, Nova Scotia. And that's just a start!

Who else has the ability to setup local, regional and even world-wide radio communications in a disaster area at the drop of a hat? And don't try to tell me that you can do this with cellphones either. Cellphones don't work in a disaster area.

I'd like to thank my American friends for their posts in this forum. They've been dealing with the RF pollution from BPL for about a year now. Its just started in Canada.

[i_spock]

[powerlines are usually not shielded...at all. Just a thin layer of insulation. BPL will leak alll over everything



Gorkon, your propaganda is entirely false. 1 Powerlines DO NOT have a thin layer of insulation. They are bare conductor. 2 Interference on AM radio is NOT necessarily caused by equipment going bad. 3. Slamming the power company? If your power goes out, the power company has it on as quick as possible. If your phone or cable goes out, they'll get to you in a day or so. 4. BPl can be allocated frequency ranges so it does not interfere with radio communications Notch filters can be used to insure hams their freqs. 5. ARRL is a powerful lobbying groupand I dont trust them. 6. BPL is in its infancy. It will get better. These issues will be worked out. Full disclosure: I am a ham radio, sw listening person who works for a power utility.

I also work for a power utility. Power *transmission* lines don't have insulation. *Distribution* lines do. I'm pretty sure that the 3-phase going to your transformer is shielded as is the line from your transformer to your house. In any case, the insulation does nothing to prevent RFI. It's just a plasticky-rubbery type of material, nothing metallic. This applies to wires strung up on poles- underground distribution/transmission wires are of course very heavily insulated and shielded.