Thread locking policy ?

[denivan]

Why is the topic about jj's boob locked ? It's a mature thread without offensive language
and it's a fun read during break time...

I pay to support this site, but suddenly I get ordering by a mod to carry on and start
discussing pocketpc's...so why don't you close the off-topic section all together then ?

Btw, closing a thread without motivation is rude and nazi-like imo

Move this post to the flame & shame forum if you need to...
I just feel disappointed by this action and will reconsider renewing my subscription

Ivan

[carphead]

I'd like to add my vote this subject. I can't see why the thread was locked. It was in the off-topic forum.

I to will also reconsider my subscription when it's time to renew. I love this site but if the policy continues I won't be renewing.

[JackTheTripper]

I have to politely agree. Though the topic had the possibility of getting out of hand, a nice "Please post no pics" may have been more apropriate.

[Steven Cedrone]

It's very simple. These posts usually get out of control very quickly. The last person that posted in the thread put up a link to a picture that, although labeled as "No Nudity", left very little to the imagination. Ms Jackson was really not covering anything. Rather than run the risk of keeping the thread open and have any more pictures or links to pictures posted, I locked the thread.

Steve

[denivan]

I'd like to add something to my first post (which was written from my ipaq, using a keyboard is a lot easier for transporting your thoughts to the screen ;)).

First of all : no pictures were posted, there was no talk about the boob itself, but more about the fact if it was an accident or not. Let's face it, this has prolly been a topic in most offices today with people who say it's a pathetic display at getting attention and others saying it was an honest accident...so that's why I liked reading this thread and in particular Petiteflower's reply, as a woman she made a good point on how this truely could have been an accident.

I also find it odd that a moderator and an editor can reply to a certain topic (with relevant info) and another moderator can decide to just lock it. I must say : I don't want to overreact , but this course of action really surprised me. When I browse through the HOF&S forum, I can see why those posts were locked, but this one puzzles me...

Kind regards,

Ivan

[JackTheTripper]

Again, with all due respect.... that picture shows less than you would see in a "before and after" weight loss commercial shown on day time TV between the afternoon movie and Scooby Doo.

[denivan]

It's very simple. These posts usually get out of control very quickly.

Oh come on, give us some credit. Some threads can get out of control, but the PPCthoughts forums are very polite and clean in general. It's not like we're all insulting each other like everyone at pdageek.com :roll:

The last person that posted in the thread put up a link to a picture that, although labeled as "No Nudity", left very little to the imagination.

Not trying to be insultive, but that tells me more about your imagination than about this thread...

Rather than run the risk of keeping the thread open and have any more pictures or links to pictures posted, I locked the thread.


The least thing to do, would have been to include this motivation when you locked the tread, don't give people the feeling that PPC Thoughts invested our money in some kind of 'Random Thread-Locking Bot'

Ivan

[JackTheTripper]

I also find it odd that one moderator can reply to a certain topic (with relevant info I might add) and another moderator can decide to just lock it.

Actually, this is not odd at all. As a moderator on another board I can tell you there are not set black-and-white rules for governing the forum. Each mod does their best to keep watch over the boards. Where one mod might say "Please be careful when posting pics" another might lock the thread and a third might remove it all together. Mods are not police with set laws they follow. They try and do their best to maintain a friendly place and sometimes make decisions that others (even other mods) don't agree with.

**Edit**

Great discussion BTW. :)

[Kati Compton]

I also find it odd that one moderator can reply to a certain topic (with relevant info I might add) and another moderator can decide to just lock it.

Actually, this is not odd at all. As a moderator on another board I can tell you there are not set black-and-white rules for governing the forum. Each mod does their best to keep watch over the boards. Where one mod might say "Please be careful when posting pics" another might lock the thread and a third might remove it all together. Mods are not police with set laws they follow. They try and do their best to maintain a friendly place and sometimes make decisions that others (even other mods) don't agree with.
Modding is all about shades of grey. There have been some REALLY hard decisions. At what point should a thread be locked, at which point should it be HOFS'd, at which point it should just be deleted...

Part of the difficulty is in guessing what is *going* to happen and try to prevent ickiness. It's more important than you might think, but can lead to controversial modding decisions (I know it's happened to me).

Basically, both Steve and I do our best to let people talk about what they want to within the bounds of what is appropriate for the board. Sometimes that line of "appropriate" is difficult to judge, and sometimes we feel it's one place while one or more of the users may feel it should be somewhere else.

Just remember: we don't get paid. ;)

[denivan]

Actually, this is not odd at all. As a moderator on another board I can tell you there are not set black-and-white rules for governing the forum. Each mod does their best to keep watch over the boards. Where one mod might say "Please be careful when posting pics" another might lock the thread and a third might remove it all together. Mods are not police with set laws they follow. They try and do their best to maintain a friendly place and sometimes make decisions that others (even other mods) don't agree with.

True, I have no knowledge about moderating a forum and it seems like a huge job, but it would seem to me that if a moderator sees that other 'staff' members are joining a discussion, then he would think to himself that if they don't see anything wrong, there probably isn't something wrong.


Part of the difficulty is in guessing what is *going* to happen and try to prevent ickiness. It's more important than you might think, but can lead to controversial modding decisions (I know it's happened to me).

Basically, both Steve and I do our best to let people talk about what they want to within the bounds of what is appropriate for the board. Sometimes that line of "appropriate" is difficult to judge, and sometimes we feel it's one place while one or more of the users may feel it should be somewhere else.


True, part of the difficulty in my case was guessing *why* a thread is locked with no motivation :? Off course I assume every mod has the board's best interest in mind...although it felt to me like this particular 'lock' was decided to quickly.

Anyway, we all value your non-paid work at keeping this page clean, just remember that some of us do pay to visit and are kind off paying (and sometimes disgruntled) customers. My reaction to this was just the same as my reaction would be when my OEM decided to not hand out ROM updates anymore :lol:

Kind regards,

Ivan

[JackTheTripper]

"....but it would seem to me that if a moderator sees that other 'staff' members are joining a discussion, then he would think to himself that if they don't see anything wrong, there probably isn't something wrong."

Actually sometimes they think "Why the heck are the contributing to this rubbish!" :lol: :lol:

But seriously it's dificult. Mods are usually unpaid and make a decision they think is right (Not saying it's wrong) and members and even other mods my get on them. And nobody likes being criticized so often they become defensive and try to defend their decision. (Which I think is the way Steve may have felt. (Just gussing.))


Again, I would have requested that people not post pics and watch the thread closly. If someone did then they would definatly be hearing about it. ;)

[Jeff Rutledge]

From where I'm sitting, I also thought that the thread was locked a little quickly. But it's easy for me to say that from where I'm sitting.

If I was a moderator, I probably would have locked it as well. Based on some of the past threads we've seen take a turn for the worse, it wasn't hard to imagine this one heading to the Hall pretty quick.

One of the reasons I like this board so much is that it's a pretty "safe" place to hang out. People don't get flamed (often) or ganged up on or bullied. I think a big reason for that is because the community generally stays away from politics, religion, sex and other potentially inflammatory topics.

If you look at the Off Topic threads, they're mostly non-PPC, but still technology or gadget related. They're topics that there's a good chance many of us share an interest in.

Personally, I think there's enough potentially inflammatory topics within technology. 8)

[Steven Cedrone]

Again, I would have requested that people not post pics and watch the thread closly.

Normally, that is the case. However on a thread where something can be posted and there is a chance that it may be hours before a mod will see it, it is going to wind up being locked. On posts that deal with politics, religon, nudity, etc. the motto (for me anyway) is "err, on the side of caution"

Man, this thread is already longer then the Janet thread...

Steve

[denivan]

Normally, that is the case. However on a thread where something can be posted and there is a chance that it may be hours before a mod will see it, it is going to wind up being locked. On posts that deal with politics, religon, nudity, etc. the motto (for me anyway) is "err, on the side of caution"

Man, this thread is already longer then the Janet thread...

Steve

I can see where you're going with this....topics like religion or politics seem most likely to get out of hand here, can't seem to remember to have seen any nudity posts though (and I didn't regard JJ's post as one).

Anyway, it suits you that you're replying to this post and haven't decide to lock it ;)

A thought occurred to me, maybe I should consider applying for the position of moderator :-)

Kind regards,

Ivan

[Steven Cedrone]

can't seem to remember to have seen any nudity posts though (and I didn't regard JJ's post as one).

Although the shot that was linked to was not that bad, it was part of a series of shots. My fear was that the rest of the series would be linked to as well.

Honestly, locking that thread has generated more of a contriversy then I thought it would. I guess there aren't as many of the "Who cares about the whole Janet thing, anyway" crowd here as I thought there were!

Steve

[dmacburry2003]

Maybe there should be a locking poll set up.

If too many users click the link (thus to agree) then wazzaa, the thread shall be locked.

Oh, I still haven't gotten around to subscribing. I don't know what I'm waiting for...


"My eyes are bubbling fubbling so far up into my..." oh, whatever :lol:

[baker]

I appreciate what the moderators do. The reason I'm here is because I know it will be mostly cordial. If one of my kids is looking over my shoulder, I don't have to try and explain why someone used some crazy word or posted a "unique" picture.

[Kati Compton]

Maybe there should be a locking poll set up.

If too many users click the link (thus to agree) then wazzaa, the thread shall be locked.

I don't think that would be a good idea. This is not a democracy. ;)

[famousdavis]

can't seem to remember to have seen any nudity posts though (and I didn't regard JJ's post as one).Honestly, locking that thread has generated more of a contriversy then I thought it would. I guess there aren't as many of the "Who cares about the whole Janet thing, anyway" crowd here as I thought there were!

Steve

Count me among those who could care less about JJ. This thread is more interesting because it gives a glimpse into what's involved in being a mod.

Keep up the good work, Steve...unless it's one of my threads you've set your beady red eyes on. 0X

[Kati Compton]

... your beady red ...
I believe you have that backwards... that would be his red beanie.

[JackSmack]

This is blown out of porportion as much as the JJ incident!

Really now! People are topless at beaches EVERYWHERE else in the world. It's only a big deal because we choose to make it a big deal!

If mods choose to be this discreet then let them. I can understand that they also have advertisers' opinions to worry about. You could always post somewhere that doesnt have this policy. But I like this place!

[Steven Cedrone]

One other thing folks: Remember, we are not all adults here. This board is rated PG...

O.K., now back to the "Great Mod Debate"! :wink:

Steve

[JustinGTP]

Well, how about we drop this and get back to discussing Pocket PC's?

Thread locked!

Steve


Well, if simply read the OFF TOPIC DESCRIPTION!!:


A forum for stuff that doesn't relate to the Pocket PC.


So yes, Steven, I think you are being a little to "thread locking" happy lately.

-Justin.

[dmacburry2003]

Is a moderator able to... say... unlock a thread?

[JvanEkris]

I agree that moderating a board is about shades of grey.

As i see it: JJ boobs were/are a hot topic, and it is only a matter of time before some person with a totally different idea of humor posts a picture. I mean, in most european countries a lot less disguising pictures are shown on national television daily, while an american public gets offended by these pictures. This is a very good basis for a cultural clash.

When the poster does not realize difference in opinion about nudity, some people could be deeply offended. And that is a hard days of work as a moderator trying to calm down a lot of people. Instead, when you lock the thread, you will offend one person that already is feeling that he is on slippery ice, which is much easier to calm down......

IMHO, Moderating is not much about rules, but much about practical management of large groups of people.

Jaap

[Jeff Rutledge]

Well, how about we drop this and get back to discussing Pocket PC's?

Thread locked!

Steve


Well, if simply read the OFF TOPIC DESCRIPTION!!:


A forum for stuff that doesn't relate to the Pocket PC.


So yes, Steven, I think you are being a little to "thread locking" happy lately.

-Justin.

And a definition of moderator is:
The officer who presides over an assembly to preserve order, propose questions, regulate the proceedings...

Moderators lock threads if they believe they are counter-productive to the community (preserve order). The bottom line to me is that it's a thankless job that I'm glad I don't have to do. Kati and Steve are two of the best I've seen in their fairness, so cut them some slack.

[JustinGTP]

Yes,

Good job you two,

BUT, there was nothing wrong with that thread. He jumped on it too early in my opinion.

[Janak Parekh]

Is a moderator able to... say... unlock a thread?
Yes. So can the editors or Jason -- we have moderating privileges too, but we generally avoid doing any. Especially because Steve's moderating is spot-on -- I think he's only reversed one moderating decision that I can remember, out of many hundreds or thousands...

He jumped on it too early in my opinion.
Key phrase, of course, being "in my opinion". Steve's opinion was sightly different, so he took a different stance. And, of course, you're welcome to disagree -- so long as you're polite about it. 8)

--janak

[dmacburry2003]

"out of many hundreds or thousands" (I STILL CAN'T QUOTE)

Where do you think his post count came from? :wink:

Has he ever said anything that has to do with PPC? :twisted:

[JustinGTP]

To use the quote feature, type this:

[quote="DMACBURRY"] You just said this [/quote]

and that looks like this:

You just said this

-Justin.

[dmacburry2003]

To use the quote feature

Thanks

[JustinGTP]

Excellent! Now you can look more professional! :D

[dmacburry2003]

Excellent! Now you can look more professional! :D

My Pocket PC already took care of that... :wink:

[Steven Cedrone]

To use the quote feature

Thanks

You can also use the quote button on the top right hand side of the post you want to quote.

Steve

[dmacburry2003]

To use the quote feature

Thanks

You can also use the quote button on the top right hand side of the post you want to quote.

Steve


OMMFG!!!! I didn't even notice that!!!! :D

[JackTheTripper]

Hey now.... watch the language! ;)

[Pat Logsdon]

To use the quote featureThanksYou can also use the quote button on the top right hand side of the post you want to quote.OMMFG!!!! I didn't even notice that!!!! :D
Just don't get carried away (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12954&start=0).

:mrgreen:

[JackSmack]

I recall a post about cutting Sadams testicles off. THAT was more offensive! Kids DO see a lot worse things in cartoons these days. Violence, violence, violence.

[Steven Cedrone]

I recall a post about cutting Sadams testicles off. THAT was more offensive! Kids DO see a lot worse things in cartoons these days. Violence, violence, violence.

And odds are it was either removed or the thread was locked. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21973&start=0) Children may see worse, but they don't see it here! :wink:

Steve

[Enderet]

8O Hahaha....early in the morning I was going to post a link to the pic myself. Im glad I didnt do that .... and also.... I too believe that the mod locked the thread too fast.

I really do believe that a warning would have been most suitable. But hey... the mods are the rulers and I respect their decisions.

[Steven Cedrone]

I really do believe that a warning would have been most suitable. But hey...

If I knew for sure that someone would have been around to watch that thread, odds are that I would have done just that. Believe me, I don't just log on and hope I can lock threads. I would much rather just sit back and participate like everyone else. I thought about if for some time before I decided that locking the thread was the best course of action to take at that time. The decision was made, and I stand behind it...

Steve

[dh]

In any case, the washed up tart has had quite enough publicity. :(

[Brad Adrian]

I know that all of us on the Thoughts team appreciate everybody's willingness to share their point of view on this. There are SO many things to balance out when moderating a thread, and unless someone has been responsible for a forum for an extended length of time (and even I have not), I doubt that we can truly understand all of the ins and outs.

One of the most important concerns is trying to anticipate where a thread is going; we'd much rather head off a potentially flame-ridden thread BEFORE anybody gets offended than sit by and hope it doesn't happen. This site has to be controlled by the "collective conscience" of everybody on the team -- and especially of Jason -- so the smartest thing is to often err on the conservative side, as Steve said.

Okay, 'nuff said. Let's get back to the truly important stuff...Pocket PCs and my SCOTTeVESTs.

[JackSmack]

I recall a post about cutting Sadams testicles off. THAT was more offensive! Kids DO see a lot worse things in cartoons these days. Violence, violence, violence.

And odds are it was either removed or the thread was locked. (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21973&start=0) Children may see worse, but they don't see it here! :wink:

Steve


... and this point is a step towards making things right. :wink:

[Hyperluminal]

I figure I'll share how I feel on this...

At first, I thought the Steve shouldn't have closed the thread. I mean, the discussion was civil, not risque or X-rated, or anything like that. While it was about something that could quickly degrade, it was pretty civil, and closing it seemed premature.

But after reading the rest of this thread, I've changed my mind. For several months, I was a writer at another PDA site. While I didn't do any moderating of my own, I did get a pretty good idea of what it takes, from all of the discussion by the actual mods (on the mod forum there, among other places). Moderating is a tricky thing, and I can attest to the fact that mods often do consult each other, and think carefully before making decisions. Another thing is that above all, the site has to keep order and stay respectable. One of the worst things that can happen is for some idiot to post a lot of spam, or porn, etc., and for none of the mods to be around for several hours to see it and do anything.

With that in mind, I can believe Steve when he says that it wasn't a quick decision, nor was it a "fun" one. As has been said, it was civil then, but if some people actually posted those pictures, even with good intentions, that would be unaccepable. And it would be impossible (or at the very least unreasonable) to babysit the thread to make sure that doesn't happen. So while it may seem premature from a user's perspective, you've got to look at it from a mod's perspective. They didn't mind the discussion, and presumably wanted it to continue. But the thread just wasn't a risk they could take.

One suggestion though. While a lot of thought and consideration (and purpose) seems to have been behind the closure of that thread, it would have been good if there had been an explation there. Then I imagine a lot more people would have understood the reasoning behind it, and they wouldn't have had to start this thread...
:)

[Steven Cedrone]

One suggestion though. While a lot of thought and consideration (and purpose) seems to have been behind the closure of that thread, it would have been good if there had been an explation there. Then I imagine a lot more people would have understood the reasoning behind it, and they wouldn't have had to start this thread...
:)

Yes, that was entirely my fault. I should have thrown in at least a quick explanation...

Live and learn... :wink:

Steve

[Mitch D]

Hmmm... I started reading this thread at work when it was only one page.... imagine my surprise that I found when I got home that it had grown to 6 pages.

We might not agree with Steven locking the threat but we have to respect that he did it with good intentions people. Let it go....

[dean_shan]

You're doing awsome Steven. I don't see what the big deal about the thread getting locked.

[PetiteFlower]

I was sad to see the Janet thread locked, I thought it was interesting and I was looking forward to seeing what the people here thought of it. I considered asking Steve via PM why he locked it.....but decided nah, 99% of the threads he locks are with good reason, I don't need to pick on him the one time I disagreed. Though I did that last time I disagreed with a thread he locked and he was totally cool about it :)

I can't believe people would threaten not to renew their subscriptions because of something stupid like that though. Especially since the mods have no financial interest in the site at all.

I do have to say that Dmac, you are seriously getting on my nerves. Please, stop posting just to see your name on the screen, only post when you have something worthwhile to say! An occasional silly post is one thing but when the meaningless posts far outnumber any informative or well thought out posts from you, it's time to think about why you're here. IMO. But you are really just being plain RUDE now, and that's even less cool then being consistently pointless.

Anyway Steve try to have a little more faith in us! I bet we could have done ok with that thread :) But yeah I agree that if you're going to lock a thread that isn't OBVIOUSLY past its prime, you should post a reason. Not for us necessarily just to keep you from getting flamed in the next thread ;)

[Kati Compton]

Anyway Steve try to have a little more faith in us! I bet we could have done ok with that thread :) But yeah I agree that if you're going to lock a thread that isn't OBVIOUSLY past its prime, you should post a reason. Not for us necessarily just to keep you from getting flamed in the next thread ;)
I think he gets the idea. ;)

[sublime]

Well, I started the Janet thread, and I, too, was a little upset that it was locked. What upset me more, though, was the direction that the tread was heading. It quickly rose from a "were you offended and why" question to a "did he mean to do it" question.

But hey, I know that Steven did not lock the thread maliciously, rather, he locked it in the best interest of the site. And I think that all of our comments in this thread are not to criticize Steve, but instead, they are a sigh of disappointment for the loss of an interesting thread that was ruined more because of it getting off topic, less because of moderating.

[carphead]

I take back my comments (2nd post) :oops: . Having read the rest of the thread I now understand Steve's actions in locking the thread.

I'll get me coat and make a quick exit. :wink:

[Jason Dunn]

Wow....much ado about nothing people! 8O

I completely trust Steven and Kati to do the often thankless job of moderating, and I deeply appreciate their daily efforts. Pocket PC Thoughts has often been referred to as one of the best forums around, because it's a family-friendly, open, non-hostile place. Most of that is because of Steve and Kati, and all of you understanding what is appropriate and what isn't. Steven and Kati understand my desire to have these forums be PG-13 rated - something that you could open and read at work without having to worry about who's watching over your shoulder.

I also trust my moderators enough that I don't expect them to explain their actions - they've proven to me, and to the community at large, that they have good judgement. I wouldn't have made them moderators otherwise. :-) Please understand that if a moderator had to publicly explain every thread lock/post deletion they EVER did, no one would want to become a moderator... ;-) There's a certain amount of trust that needs to be passed along here - hopefully you all trust me to run a good Web site, and I trust my moderators to keep it that way, and you should trust the moderators to do the job they've been empowered to do.

There's certainly no lack of forums out there for every other topic under the sun, so while on one hand I'm happy that people think of this as "home" to want to post EVERY topic to it, some topics just don't belong here. Talking about Janet Jacksons' breasts had nowhere to go but down as topic - just like someone posting a "Christianity/Islam/Hinduism" sucks post. Moderators have the experience to know that something like that is going to get ugly in a real hurry...

I appreciate that no one likes having their freedom curtailed, but remember this is a privately held site, not a piece of public property, so there are rules of conduct that must be followed. I tend to think that our rules are few and far in between, so I don't see this being a significant problem.

But if as a subscriber, you cannot abide by a site that will occasionally censor users when they cross the line, then we will regretfully have to make it without your support. :( I do hope you'll continue to support the site though! :D

[DrtyBlvd]

In any case, the washed up tart has had quite enough publicity. :(

:rotfl: