Active Sync is a Joke

[mark_anderson_us]

Hi All

I recently moved from Palm to PPC (becasue I wanted Tom Tom Navigator) and I have to say I'm disappointed big time.

I used ListPro extensively on Palm and desktop and when I sync witht he palm the RECORDS get updated. With PPC all it can manage is file sync, so I have to remember to only make changes in one place before I sync the next time.

So I thought maybe it's just a problem with 3rd party apps, so I tried Excel. Same thing. This is a complete joke and light years behind Palm HotSync technology.

Are there ANY applications that sync properly???

Regards

Mark

[powder2000]

Easy, Easy, so what is the real problem here? I'm not quite sure what to answer unless I have a clear question. What do you want to do? There is an option in activesync to sync both ways or just one way. Also, if you want to sync files, you must have them in your my documents folder in main memory. The issue I think I'm seeing is that the program you are used to has a plugin that syncs with its desktop counterpart. There are ppc programs that do this (database programs come to mind), you just have to find them. IMHO, I find the file system on ppcs much more intuitive to use that palms.

[Sven Johannsen]

You have to understand the limitations and features of what you are using. Illium software apparently provided a hotsync conduit that does db replication on the Palm. They did not do that on the PPC.

Files in the PPC sync folder are only updated to the latest copy, the one that was changed last. I expect the original concept was that you would be making changes on the desktop version when at the desktop, which are automatically copied to the docked PPC without any intervention, so you can grab and go at any time. If you make changes on the document on the PPC while away, that will be immediately copied to your desktop when you return and cradle. Again no need to punch a hotsync button. This makes sense for most documents. It would be pretty tough to set up a system where it parses through a Word Document and merges/reconciles changes you have made on two copies.

PIMs. contacts, calendar, etc, are different. They are database formats which can embed information on when particular pieces within the structure are changed. With that embedded information the sync engine can determine if a piece, or field, such as phone #, was changed on one copy and not the other. If the same item was changed on both devices, there is normally a prompt to allow you to specify which is current, or some setting to always pick one over the other.

If you use Access as a database on the PC and one of the compatible apps on the PPC, that does syncing of database-ish information they way you would expect. While Listpro is a database-ish application, AS treats the datafile as a file. It would be up to Illium to provide a conduit to do otherwise. There are DB apps on the PPC other than Access that do provide their own sync mechanism to allow 'cross-updating'.

Spreadsheets are a unique sort of thing. Many folks use them like a DB, but they are not DBs in that they don't have the underlying overhead to log changes to specific cells. That would be needed for any sync mechanism to determine what individual cell was changed, at what time, to be able to 'cross-sync'. AS treats spreadsheet files as a file. latest is copied. That is the way the briefcase works on a desktop PC, and I would be darned surprised if an Excel compatible app on a Palm does any different.

[Jason Dunn]

I can understand your frustration, but the real solution is to ask Ilium why they provided a record-level sync on Palm and not on the Pocket PC. Record-level syncs are certainly possible - other apps do them - so it's not a limitation of the platform as you're implying. Ask Ilium. :-)

[Ilium Software]

Hi,

For any of you that have been using ListPro for a while, you know that new features are very much driven by customer requests. So far, we've h ad more interest in new usability features in the product and not very many for a change in sync - we imagine this is because the built-in file synchronization provided by ActiveSync works pretty well for most eople.

We have had some requests for ListPro to do record syncing rather than file syncing on Pocket PC and will seriously consider that for a future release. Please keep the good ideas coming by sending email to [email protected]. That is primary way that we determine what changes are made!

Thanks!

Marc Tassin
Ilium Software
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[email protected]
+1 (734) 973-9388
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http://www.iliumsoft.com

[ipaq_wannabe]

It seems that ActiveSync/PocketPC only allows partnership with TWO computers at most (I may be mistaken)...

This being the case, for example, if someone has three computers - an office desktop, a home desktop, and a notebook pc...

I believe that Palm's Hotsync technology is far superior than ActiveSync - you could CORRECTLY sync with more than TWO computers, ie., you are not restricted to have a partnership with your handheld that is limited to TWO computers...

Any further thoughts on the subject?

Just my 100 yen worth...

[Janak Parekh]

Any further thoughts on the subject?
Yes - this is one of my biggest gripes of ActiveSync.

There are workarounds -- like Kelbran's sync manager (http://www.kelbran.com/products/SyncMgr.html), although they're not officially supported by MS.

--janak

[ipaq_wannabe]

Any further thoughts on the subject?
Yes - this is one of my biggest gripes of ActiveSync.

There are workarounds -- like Kelbran's sync manager (http://www.kelbran.com/products/SyncMgr.html), although they're not officially supported by MS.

--janak

thanks for the reply - id do take a look at that application, and try it myself, too...

however, workarounds are no reason for poor application design - right? just because you know some individual or group of individuals would be able to do a workaround, one just leaves it that way... a totally half-baked job, so to speak...

it is like what my senior project manager always says - "if one has to do workaround, it is either there is no solution to the problem, or there is probably a lack of knowledge..."

microsoft really needs to shapen up...

just to note: im quite envious at my friend's palm which could handle word and excel documents far far better than pocket word and pocket excel (what was that software's name??)

:oops: :( :cry:

[Janak Parekh]

however, workarounds are no reason for poor application design - right? just because you know some individual or group of individuals would be able to do a workaround, one just leaves it that way... a totally half-baked job, so to speak...
It's not quite that simple. ActiveSync as it stands today is an evolution for many years, and it's showing its age. A redesign is certainly needed, and hopefully Microsoft will do it.

just to note: im quite envious at my friend's palm which could handle word and excel documents far far better than pocket word and pocket excel (what was that software's name??)
As we've discussed on this site many times, it's not because of Palm's built-in ability, but rather the fact they bundle Documents-to-Go. I'd love to see something like TextMaker (http://www.softmaker.de/tmp_en.htm) bundled by OEMs -- it blows everything else out of the water. But if it's any consolation, we've repeatedly told Microsoft that Pocket Word and Excel need improvement.

--janak

[ipaq_wannabe]

It's not quite that simple. ActiveSync as it stands today is an evolution for many years, and it's showing its age. A redesign is certainly needed, and hopefully Microsoft will do it.

hhhmmm...
hopefully... maybe in ActiveSync 4.0?
however, from what ive read in this site - ActiveSync has gone from too much minor changes in version 3, in spite of the fact that PPC has already gone from pocketpc to 2000 to 2003

As we've discussed on this site many times, it's not because of Palm's built-in ability, but rather the fact they bundle Documents-to-Go. I'd love to see something like TextMaker (http://www.softmaker.de/tmp_en.htm) bundled by OEMs -- it blows everything else out of the water. But if it's any consolation, we've repeatedly told Microsoft that Pocket Word and Excel need improvement.


wow!!!
then i really cant wait for what microsoft would come up with...
but do you think that Microsoft would implement any changes? especially there is this workaround, TextMaker?

anyway... got to check that TextMaker you've just told me about...