Yet Another Memory Card Format!?

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5149705.html' target='_blank'>http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5149705.html</a><br /><br /></div>"A consortium of consumer electronics manufacturers next week will unveil a format for memory cards that will be smaller than Secure Digital (SD) cards, which are the size of postage stamps. The cards will connect to computers and other devices through a universal serial bus connector. The format is the brainchild of a newly founded group called the Universal Transportable Memory Association (UTMA), Michael Minneman, a spokesman for the group, told CNET News.com on Wednesday."<br /><br /><i>Another</i> format? :evil: As if the miniSD and xD aren't enough? Are they deliberately doing this to torture users? I'm curious how many of you use xD as it is...

[dmacburry2003]

So small I could lose it. :?

[egads]

I could see a USB style memory card. That would force all of the PPC vendors to put in a frigg'n USB host controller. A PPC would then only have to support USB, not CF, SD, Memory stick, ... It would have to be at least USB2 to be of any use.

We'll just have to wait and see if it takes off !!!

[arebelspy]

Ugh, I was forced to limit my recent digital camera choice to one that accepts only SD so that I can use my 512MB - soon 1GB SD with both my XDA II and my camera. :(

-arebelspy

[Jeff Rutledge]

Flash memory? Does that need a trenchcoat? :mrgreen: :alfdance:

[Janak Parekh]

We'll just have to wait and see if it takes off !!!
But there is a huge installed base of CF and SD, so I don't see this as doing anything except further fragmentation. I don't know; we'll see...

--janak

[gorkon280]

SD is small enough. and things I woud rather see/spend resources on:

LARGER and CHEAPER SD cards.

FASTER SD Cards and readers.

SD is small enough I lose them already.

[ricksfiona]

I would think that a small memory specification would be helpful in ultra small devices such as watches, wireless earpieces and god knows what else they are thinking of.... Even SD would be too big to fit into a watch and we all know it's just a matter of time for them to have cameras built-in.

[dmacburry2003]

They do have camera watches. I remember seeing one two years ago.

I can see this new... (I will nickname it) TooSmall card fitting in watches. It would be useful in Fossil's (dare I say it :evil: ) Palm PDA watch.

[Air]

Is it free and has bling bling on it?

If not, I won't buy it. :mrgreen:

(anybody notices SD is cheaper than XD by now? so much for the promised XD will be much cheaper than anything else out there.)

[dmacburry2003]

What ever happened to Microsoft's FAT tax? Did anybody notice any changes from that?

[Collision]

The best way for the major format to be dertmined is for everything to have one flash memory slot. The multiformat readers are what is keeping the dead formats alive.

[rmasinag]

I'm using xD because it came with the Oly camera I bought. I only use it for backup in addition to my CF cards(can have both in at the same time!). So to me it's just a bonus, not a requirement or even a want.

[Robb Bates]

I like the concept of the iStick (http://www.istick.biz/).

It's small enough to be used as a portable device memory card, but you can just plug it straight into a USB port to access it. Genius! I wish this one would catch on.

Robb

[rmasinag]

FASTER SD Cards and readers.


Firewire card readers are already here, it's just matter of plunking extra ducats for them. :)

[gorkon280]

FASTER SD Cards and readers.


Firewire card readers are already here, it's just matter of plunking extra ducats for them. :)

A firewire reader IS NOT going to make the reader read the card faster. THATS the bottle neck. Connection technology can have something to do with it, but even USB 1.1 is not causing an issue here.

[qgman]

Slightly OT, but I seem to be able to vote in the poll without logging in. Was this by design?

[Air]

I like the concept of the iStick (http://www.istick.biz/).


It top off at 512MB. It's useless. We need 4-40GB storage.

[bjornkeizers]

I've never even seen a device that uses XD.. I know it's out there, but that's about it. It took me ages before I truly accepted SD over CF.. and I'm certainly not going to switch to a new format for at least two years.

[David Prahl]

How is this different from a small USB flash drive?

[whydidnt]

If this turns out to be significantly smaller than SD I would consider it in appropriate device. However, I generally avoid new "standards" that don't provide any benefit over the old in size, cost or functionality. When looking at Digital Cameras I really liked a couple of the Olympus models until I saw they used XD memory. Pushed me towards a Casio or Canon with an SD slot. I don't want to have to reinvest in another memory format if there isn't any true benefit.

whydidnt

[Robb Bates]

How is this different from a small USB flash drive?

I assume you mean the iStick. Well, it's small enough to use as a memory card. And it has some extra contact points in addition to the USB contacts that I assume allow portable devices to access it without having to implement a USB Host. Although having portable devices with a USB host is a good thing IMHO.

Robb

[Sven Johannsen]

If this turns out to be significantly smaller than SD I would consider it in appropriate device.

I can't see it being 'significantly' smaller. The USB blade connector that fits in a USB port is almost as big as an SD card already. If that is their interface plan, it has to at least have that connector on it, unless they go for the mini usb connectors you find on cameras and mp3 players. Then you need to carry the USB connector adapter.

Now, if you make a memory card around the size of a phone SIM card, and put the bay for it under my PPC battery, and leave me an SDIO slot (or CF), I'll be happy.

[Jason Dunn]

Slightly OT, but I seem to be able to vote in the poll without logging in. Was this by design?

Yes, it is - anonymous people can vote in the poll.

[shawnc]

Unfortunate for consumers since it just adds to the confusion. However, this is a capitalist society, you can't expect an inventor with a better idea to not pursue it simply because something inferior already exists. This consortium seems to think they have created a better form of flash memory, seems kind of crazy for them not to capitalize on their creativity and ingenuity.

On 2nd thought, it's not unfortunate for consumers. More choice is ALWAYS a good thing in the long run. In this instance, it may create some temporary short term confusion.

[wesley762]

has any one ever looked at the price of xD memory. its about twice the cost of sd and tripple the cost of compactflash. that would be the biggest turn off.

[dmacburry2003]

xD looks all crooked to me. How do they fit it in devices?

[JustinGTP]

Slightly OT, but I seem to be able to vote in the poll without logging in. Was this by design?

You were probably already logged in then :wink:

But seriously, more flash memory? I don't know why we need more, we will only have to buy SD to XD convertors and such so that we can use things if we need too...

[Blue Zero]

The chaos had begin...!

Its started off with Stick, then xD... now this
Soon we'll see xxD, opSD, miniStick, babyCF, xSD2tf, 4rtfskirt, minibabypitySD, superfidhurngstickCFSD, xxxxxD374jgkmr.... :?:

The possibility is endless!!!!!
Now we need a suitcase just to carry all different types of storage

[arnage2]

All we need is SD, CF, MD and maybe ms and xd. Thats it. Improve on the main formats.

[David Prahl]

I could live with SD/MMC and CF.

MS and xD are nearly worthless, and SM is only in small capacities.

[wizardmaster2k]

Yea, SD/MMC and CF are perfect for me. No more.....

[yslee]

*groans* oh no, do we have to go through this again? I can see the "10-in-1" card readers now.. I've barely come to terms that I'll need to buy more SD in future, and now this. Stop it already, and improve the current standards!

[ignar]

I've avoided Sony products because of memory stick. SD and CF are good enough and small enough.

[T4RZ4N]

*groans* oh no, do we have to go through this again? I can see the "10-in-1" card readers now.. I've barely come to terms that I'll need to buy more SD in future, and now this. Stop it already, and improve the current standards!

PPCwith dual slot is the best thing nowadays regarding multi-format, but I can't imagine buying a PPC with 10 slots built in 8O
oh noooooooo........

[jlp]

On 2nd thought, it's not unfortunate for consumers. More choice is ALWAYS a good thing in the long run. In this instance, it may create some temporary short term confusion.

Not only it does create confusion but it forces people to make a discriminating choice.

And tho more choice may be good in some situation it is NOT in some important ones.

For example in your car you can choose the brand of fuel you put in: Texaco, Shell, BP, Exxon/Esso, etc. It does NOT matter (you just have to make sure you use the right type (gas vs diesel), but you're free to choose the brand).

Same things with tires, brand does not matter, just the right size

Now in computing world, it's different: you have Windows and MacOS (and Linux/Unix), for PDAs PalmOS and WinCE/PPC (OK, Linux here too).

When you have one of these OS you're stuck with using apps written exclusively for that OS. No matter if you'd love to use that nice PalmOS app on your PPC you can't.

So you have restrictive choices.

The same is true with card formats, and this is why I and a few people here have ruled MemoryStinks, SM, xD out of our buying list because they are incompatible with our devices: PDAs, digicams, etc.

So more brands DOES mean more choice and competitive prices, but more standards only mean:
confusion
higher prices (look at MemorySh!t or xD prices) because Sorry corners the market as they control the format and request licence payments where CF and MMC are licence free.
discriminative choices (even if xD cards where cheaper, you still could not use them in your device SD slot)


Look at BetaMax vs VHS vs B2000 (Philips), video only startd catching on when VHS became the dominant format.

Look at the CD it quickly became in widespead use because Philips and Sony worked on a standard and every manufacturer used it.

Same way with DVD video.

On the other hand the recordable DVD market was very confusing at first and it started to take off just when drives with both formats became available.

And now the Blue Ray DVD burners war promises the same confusion.

Back to memory cards, the confusion is greater by the day, the discriminating choices even more of a headache and prices still higher with the much lesser capable, rare and proprietary formats.

[ctmagnus]

When it comes to media, if it doesn't fit in this (http://www.lexarmedia.com/readers/multi.html) (preferably the top-left or bottom slots) I don't buy it.

[Gremmie]

They do have camera watches. I remember seeing one two years ago.

I can see this new... (I will nickname it) TooSmall card fitting in watches. It would be useful in Fossil's (dare I say it :evil: ) Palm PDA watch.

Maybe for SPOT watches...anyways, companies/associations tend to own the patents for memory cards and it can be a tricky thing trying to improve on someone elses standards. If CF, SD, Memory Stick, and xD don't provide enough competition within themselves to improve standards more quickly, isn't there a need for another market player?

[jimski]

If it is as small as it claims to be, then this new format might be appropriate for a device with a size requirement, like a watch for example.

But otherwise it will just create more confusing in an already confusing arena. Will be interesting to see which electronics manufacturer chooses to adopt this unwelcome format first. Said product engineer should be advised to shoot him/her self in the foot upon waking in the morning so as to aviod ruining a perfectly good shoe.

If SD format was the only one to survive, I would not be disappointed.

[MadBison]

I use xD only because my Olympus 5050 camera came with a 256mb and a 32mb xD cards. I then had to purchase a xD to CF adapter though, as Everything else I have except the iPaq is CF.

Now I have to purchase a SD to CF adapter, so I can read and write to the SD card from everything else (Including the camera, because it has both an xD and CF slot.

Its driving me mad purchasing and keeping up with all these card formats.

D

[bjornkeizers]

Same here. I'm not going to invest in a new format for at least two years, simple as that. SD is king right now, and I like it just fine. They're small, they're relatively cheap, easy to use, easy to store, come in all sizes and I can use them in a ton of devices, as opposed to:

CF: only a handful of PPC's and camera's still use it. Most are going SD
MS: only sony products and a handful of others actively use the MS format, plus it's almost twice as expensive and comes in smaller sizes
XD: I've never even seen an XD device to my knowledge...

So why the hell do we need another format right now? What's wrong with SD? I vote with my wallet and I say: screw them.

[Jimmy Dodd]

I just broke down and bought a 512 MB SD card for my h2215. So in my mind there are no other formats but SD and CF and you guys are just making this up.

That's what I keep telling myself anyway... :worried:

[ucfgrad93]

I vote with my wallet and I say: screw them.

Amen, brother!

My camera uses a CF card, my 1910 uses a SD card and my wife's Sony T665 uses a memory stick. When I replace one of them, I'll try and keep the same format or use one of the others I already have.

[possmann]

not another one - didn't FUJI come out with their own a couple of years ago too - for their cameras?

lets see... how many we have now that I can think of - off the top of my head

there the 2 different Sony sticks (how are they doin? :lol:)
there is the Fuji card :pukeface:
There are the CF cards type I and II
Remember the Smartcard - It's only wafer thin...
then SD and MMC cards

and now someone wants to add to this? Check me if I'm wrong but I don't see the success factor in this - aren't SD/MMC cards "the" format to use now? With the 1gig card out there now I'm hopin they start working on data transfer/speed ratings instead of adding more memory...

[shawnc]

On 2nd thought, it's not unfortunate for consumers. More choice is ALWAYS a good thing in the long run. In this instance, it may create some temporary short term confusion.

Not only it does create confusion but it forces people to make a discriminating choice.

And that's a bad thing????? OK, I didn't follow the relevance of some of your points but I'll concede that in regards to Beta/VHS, the process as I see it broke down since Beta was clearly (IMO) a superior product. I'm not a fan of multiple formats but my point is simple, let the market decide which product is best. I'm a big SD fan, but if by chance this new format turns out to be better then I want it in the marketplace. If it's not better, it will perish because people vote with their wallet. All I'm saying is I want that choice. Don't hold back because you think consumers are not intelligent enough to make an informed decision when presented with multiple options.

[yslee]

CF: only a handful of PPC's and camera's still use it. Most are going SD
XD: I've never even seen an XD device to my knowledge...


Actually, quite a lot of cameras still use CF, and it's the format of choice for high end cameras and digital SLRs. xD devices are limited to Olympus and Fujifilm digital cameras.


So why the hell do we need another format right now? What's wrong with SD? I vote with my wallet and I say: screw them.

Indeed, screw them! but I wonder how many can resist when the next cool must-have gadget ends up supporting this format exclusively?

[PPCRules]

On 2nd thought, it's not unfortunate for consumers. More choice is ALWAYS a good thing in the long run. In this instance, it may create some temporary short term confusion.

Not only it does create confusion but it forces people to make a discriminating choice. [etc., etc.]

Choice is a good thing if consumers are smart/educated/think long-term when they make their purchasing decisions. We wouldn't have this madness if more people were voting with their money, based on memory format.

In PocketPCs, I insisted on a CF slot, and took the additional SD slot as a bonus. (It's been very nice having two slots. Lots of plug-in CF accessories; I still have my expansion memory available.) Around here (PPCT), I have seen a lot of people opt for SD only because it usually gives them a smaller device. So they are valuing device size over memory format.

In digital cameras, I have only seen a few retailers/online sites that list memory card format prominently. This would indicate that this does not rank high in most people's selection process (I suppose a lot of first time digital camera buyers don't already have memory cards of any kind). In my mind, this was top and first criteria. Previously, I had only shopped among CF camera. Only recently did I update to an SD model, only because of the price advantage on the particular model (and after upgrading the SD for my PPC the third time, I now had surplus SD cards). So, there I did value price/performance ratio over memory format, but only after already adopting a second format in another use. I always avoided even looking at any XD camera.

So that's how we could vote out extraneous formats (i.e., no one buys Olympus cameras or any Sony device).

The reason these unneeded formats are offered in the first place is that a whole lot of money goes to the people that collect the royalties (just think of the number of these cards that are sold each year, and how that number will continue to explode). And the more companies that buy into the format, the more the pool of money gets divided up. So it pays to take a chance in offering your own format. If it succeeds, you reap the benefits. And, none has failed in a big way, so it encourages companies to seek these new royalty-generating opportunities. (xD is brought to us by the SM people; the decline of SM is as much an updating to a significantly smaller size than indicating a market failure of a format.)

So, in summary, if people bought smarter, this wouldn't be happening. I'll admit there is another side, though. If no one bought something new, there wouldn't be anything new (eek! we'd all be using 3600 iPaqs).

(I know; I don't read long posts either.)

[gliscameria]

I almost didn't buy my digicam (Sony) because it only takes memory stick. I would understand a new format if it was along the lines of going from a cassette to Cd or Cd to DVD, but going from CF to mem stick is like going from VHS to laserdisk. Unless this new card holds over 5 gigs and is cheap and faster, I don't see why anyone would switch, unless manufacturers make their devices only compliant with the new card.

[ipaqgeek]

It's about screwing the customer when they get the latest device so we customers have to buy all new memory everytime we buy a new device.

Thats why I refuse to buy any Sony Product (including non-sony products that only have memory stick slots) - purely out of principle.

They call all rot in hell - as that's where they're going for being so devious! :evil:

(I'm a little aggravated by this marketing scheme if you can't tell).

[beq]

Are we clear on just how this new UTMA card connects? Just a thought, maybe "a universal serial bus connector" is a general description?

And a picture is worth... (or at least size measurements) to gauge all these relative sizes (UTMA, SD, miniSD, etc)...

P.S. I seem to recall in the distant past that Lexar actually had some CF card with built-in miniUSB port on its side, anyone remember this?

[Zerothis]

Since SanDisk makes a TransFlash to SD adator I am not opposed to buying space saving TransFlash cards. Provided the price per megabyte is comparable to CF, size doesn't matter that much.

[beq]

^ I agree with the above sentiment, but I cannot decide between TransFlash (was T-Flash), miniSD, or RS-MMC (basically the MMC version of miniSD). All are small enough that they have an adaptor to become an SD/MMC card (flush, without anything protruding). I wonder which mini format has the biggest capacities with the highest speeds at the lowest street prices? And the one with the widest native device support...

[Fishie]

I will keep my CF and get a CF card with sd and transflash slots :mrgreen: