Ultra-Personal Computers - PCs in a Pod

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/35018.html' target='_blank'>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/35018.html</a><br /><br /></div>"So-called 'ultra-personal computers', or UPCs, which squeeze a full-blown PC into a form factor more reminiscent of a PDA, have been touted as the next big thing for several years. The recent Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas has finally shown that the UPC may at last have become a practical proposition. The realization of the UPC concept can be attributed to a couple of crucial factors. First, component miniaturization, especially of high-quality VGA displays and hard drives, is now making a desktop-type experience feasible on a small device. <br /><br />Secondly, the commitment of chip vendor Transmeta to the UPC concept, with the latest generations of its low-power Efficeon and Crusoe designs, provides the necessary horsepower to drive devices based on a 'full' desktop operating system as opposed to the relatively slim-line operating systems used by today's PDAs."<br /><br />Ah, the classic PDA vs. UPC discussion. Where do you stand? It's my belief that there will always be a place for "appliance" devices like PDAs and smartphones, because operating systems like Windows XP and OS X simply weren't designed with mobility in mind. They need too much RAM, too much storage space, and too many CPU cycles to effectively scale down to a small device. Eventually hardware advances might overcome those obstacles, but until a development paradigm comes about where a mobile/pda application UI is just as important as a desktop UI, I don't see the richness of applications necessary to carry the UPC concept forward.

[dmacburry2003]

Why don't they just make Pocket PC's like regular computers and keep the name?

I mean- Ultra-Personal Computers ?!?

What's it going to do? Make love to you or something?

[[email protected]]

I was thinking that it would be possible to build a device like the really small pc that offers a dual boot setup. one os is contained in flash rom, and boots to pocket pc. the hdd and most of the hardware would be accessible from this boot, and use software like a normal ppc. the other boot will be a modified version of xp, or whatever, that is a fully blown os. what do you think?

[dmacburry2003]

Cool idea, but why would you need the PPC OS on there when you got full blown XP?

[tylosaurus]

How about 1 OS & 2 ueser interfaces. ONe can be regular, for when in a dock, and the other can be simmilar to the PPC UI, for when useing just the handheld portion. Both run the same programs and use the same files.

[Mojo Jojo]

To me the argument really lies in the human interaction between the device, or a 3.5" or 4" screen.

Desktop interfaces are like building blocks, stacking elements and improvements on top of one another as they progress. When a large monitor is available then extra components, on screen widgets and the like are not a problem.

When the size goes down the amount of compromise you have to make for the desktop interface goes up. How much of the screen is really available when looking at an excel sheet with full toolbars? Or a word document?

To me, as a device shrinks, the interaction with it becomes more specific in task. As it becomes specific I have less need for more robust code where a small set of code can do the same thing. Therefor less resources are theoretically needed.

So I think that having a full OS in a small package will catch on only when our interaction with the device becomes less restricted. Ocular implants, wearable monitors (what ever happened to those glasses that made it look like a full screen?) foldable/rollable screens.

[rlobrecht]

Instant on is a huge factor in hand held devices as well. You can only get instant on with a flash based device. Can you imagine the cost of a flash disk large enough for an XP based computer.

Compaq/HP has an interesting idea with the TC1x00 tablet PCs. They have a sync utility and a ROM based application built in to them that allows a user instant on access to a few documents and a read only copy of their Outlook data. I think you may see people swithing to a very small Tablet PC (8 - 10 inch screen) and a Smart phone. Smart phone for tasks, email, quick notes, appointments, etc. and a Tablet PC for everything else.

That doesn't work for me, however, because ebooks is one of my main uses for my Pocket PC (at least in terms of time) and I'm not going to whip out a Tablet PC if I'm waiting in line somewhere.

[[email protected]]

a smaller version of tablet pc or a full blown xp machine with support for thouch screen and some sort of a built-in scrolling/ pointing device would do the job for me.
BTW, I'm still waiting for that killer device that would be operable with one hand ( :( sorry, PPC isn't)

Ori

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

Instant on is a huge factor in hand held devices as well. You can only get instant on with a flash based device. Can you imagine the cost of a flash disk large enough for an XP based computer.
My thought exactly... unless UPCs can attain "instant-on" capability, it can never replace a PPC IMO.

[fireflyrsmr]

after living with pda's for almost 10 years I'm really starting to think that a full OS that i can carry around is what I want. The smart phone would handle the PIM part of my life and the work would be done on what i'm thinking would be a large handheld. the tablets are just too big but something the size of the newton or the NEC clamshell is starting to draw me in. I just do too much powerpoint - spreadsheet - word doc's with embedded pictures stuff to make this 4 inch screen thing replace the laptop. therefore the laptop still goes nearly everywhere with me plus the ipaq plus the 2 cell phones plus the stowaway keyboard. this is a pain in the back literally. :roll:

[gry]

I'm loving my converged device, Treo 600.

I'll be looking forward to the OqO as it becomes commercially available.

The Treo 600 is my phone, PIM, quick Internet searches, IMAP mail, and for SSH/Telnet/FTP in a pinch. At this point, I no longer carry my 2215 and my BlackBerry in favor of the the Treo 600.

Get me an uber tiny laptop with a full OS with Wifi, BT, close to instant on (it takes my Picturebook 5 seconds to wake up from suspend), and battery life that lasts as long as my 2215 and it's perfect.

The OqO looks like that device.

[sesummers]

Full XP, converted to work with a pen, is still full XP. It doesn't make good use of the limited 800x600 display (I shudder to think how useless it would be at 640x480), and navigating the menus at the top of the screen when the pen input stuff is at the bottom is VERY awkward.

The other big problem is it's an electronic pen rather than touch sensitive display. That's necessary when the screen is larger and your hand is likely to be on it, I suppose, but that makes it VERY sensitive to the angle that I'm holding the pen. It's just not very precise.

What I'd really like is a tablet PC about the size of four PocketPC's, with the display resolution pushed to 120dpi instead of 100 so I can get 800x600 in a 5x6.7 inch display. I'd like the PocketPC style UI (menus on the bottom, press and hold as right-click, etc), but it needs a stronger version of Word and Excel- not desktop strength (I'm not giving up my desktop PC with my three 17" LCDs giving me 3760x1024 resolution), but something that doesn't mangle documents and provides decent outlining.

If I could get that, I'd be happy. But XP on a 640x480 unreadable display? For what?

[gry]

Yes, but think about it you can use this device to surf any Web site and run your favorite desktop applications anywhere, including reading eBooks using the desktop version of uBook or MS Reader.

You're not hostage to the lack of features in PIE, Netfront, FtxpBroswer, or MultiIE, or any other PPC applications. You won't have to buy duplicate software that runs for the desktop and a handheld since the OqO is running desktop software.

I think this type of PC has more market appeal than a PPC. At this point,most people are familiar with how Windows works versus the PPC.

[thadrool]

I think it's inevitable that our PCs will shrink into something PPC-like. In a perfect world, our information would be as mobile as we are. The OQO is a fairly good implementation of the concept...if it would just get into production. At home, one could simply dock the device to connect it to a larger monitor, other peripherals, etc.

[Hugh Nano]

Anyone who can identify my current avatar will immediately know exactly where I stand on this issue. I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the first ultra-personal PC--or whatever you want to call it. Much as I love my Pocket PC and instant-on, I find I now do most of my work on my laptop because I need the extra power, larger screen, more storage space, more freeware apps, and all-round greater flexibility that come with a laptop and full-fledged OS. About the only thing I don't like about my laptop is its size.

That being said, I am also looking forward to the next generation of Pocket PC which will support higher screen resolutions, and the thing I would miss most in an ultra-personal PC is the 1024x768 display!

As for whether or not XP would run OK on lower-end hardware like an ultra-personal PC, I am currently running XP on my old Compaq Armada 7400. Specs: Pentium II 300MHz; 192Mb RAM; 6Gb hard drive. It works wonderfully--much better than Windows 98!

Bring on the tiny PCs! And, as someone here suggested, it might not be a bad idea to add a dual-boot Pocket PC (or Pocket PC-like) OS to the package for instant-on PIM capabilities!

[SassKwatch]

It's my belief that there will always be a place for "appliance" devices like PDAs and smartphones, because operating systems like Windows XP and OS X simply weren't designed with mobility in mind. They need too much RAM, too much storage space, and too many CPU cycles to effectively scale down to a small device.
While I agree there will always be a place for devices like PDAs and Smartphones, I'm puzzled at the remainder of the above.

**IF**, and it's a mighty big if, the OQO actually comes to market with currently listed specs, it's VERY close in spec to the Fujitsu P1120 sub-notebook. And the Fujitsu has proved to be a VERY capable device in our enterprise environment at work. In fact, so good that I've considered purchasing one of my own for home use.

Would I want a UPC as my one and only pc? No, of course not. It certainly wouldn't do for video editing, Photoshop, or s/w development. But that still leaves an awful lot of uses available to it. So, I don't see how it fails to scale effectively.(?)

[jlp]

It's reassuring and conforting to read posts from people who believe in UPCs such as the OQO or any competitor (NEC MicroPC comes to mind) (http://www.AMI-ProWeb.ch/div/nec_micro.jpg)

It's reassuring... until the naysayers from other OQO posts rear their ugly... messages. :evil:

[JA]

It's reassuring and conforting to read posts from people who believe in UPCs such as the OQO or any competitor (NEC MicroPC comes to mind) (http://www.AMI-ProWeb.ch/div/nec_micro.jpg)

It's reassuring... until the naysayers from other OQO posts rear their ugly... messages. :evil:

Actually we dont have any problems with UPCs, we just have a problem with the OQO. Namely that aside from a few units it still doesnt exist-even after years of hype! JA

[Steven Cedrone]

Can we please steer clear of the OQO debate in this thread, let's talk about real UPC's...

jlp, ja: please take the arguement that is certain to erupt between you two, off-line...

Steven Cedrone
Community Moderator

[jlp]

Oh noooooo...

As I was fearing the nay sayers are back :(

It's always then that the discussions degenerate.

Tell you what: First, I'm not the first one to mention the name OQO in this thread, then the OQO is unalterably associated with the term UPC as they are the ones who coined the term. Say Romeo and everybody thinks Juliet, likewise say UPC and everybody will think OQO.

Third I also mentionned another device, namely the NEC Micro PC.

People always tend to exaggerate and over react (JA The first OQO was only introduced less than 2 years ago so you don't need to put an "s" to year). Then today's OQO is miles ahead from the device presented at WinHEC 02 and a different device.

Also Intel themselves have talked about such devices as well and many companies are reported to work on such prototyes. Granted they don't generate as much noise as the OQO, for many reasons that's needless to talk about here.

And Steve, when you say "let's talk about real UPC's... ", which commercially available device you think about?

As far as I know, none are available today for consumer to buy as the Antelope Tech device is very far from being a PDA sized autonomous machine; the core unit is screenless, inputless and worse batteryless; it's not much more than a pocket HDD with RAM and CPU.